Boycotting Chickfil A and now Hobby Lobby

[Gypsy]

I would never knowingly buy anything from anyone that oppresses or subjugates anyone. Once you know something you have a RESPONSIBILITY so it is not at all hypocritical or melodramatic. I think we will just have to agree to disagree because whenever someone disagrees with you they become "melodramatic". Certain issues are important to ME and I will never budge on them and one of them is the fair treatment of humans. I'm going to go there with race again, but I as a Black woman can never imagine buying something from a company who thinks that gays should be treated differently. I would not buy from a company that does not promote women because they believe their place is in the home, but hey that's just me. You are free to do with what you want with your money.

This was more or less word-for-word what I was thinking as I read along, so I will bow to the more eloquent voice and add an enthusiastic +1.

I do think it's interesting that we're debating the ability to boycott, as if companies are somehow entitled to our money. Free market FTW and all, but ... WHAT? I never thought much of CFL, but if I found out that the proprietors of my favorite Chinese place down on 55th where I've been going since I was 12 were bigots, I'd have a much harder time choking down the fried rice, somehow.

(They're not. They're awesome. I just had to add that, since I love them and would not want to impugn them even by association. Guilt, expiated!)

Agree.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow, I would say there is extreme, obvious bigotry and intolerance towards those with traditional religious beliefs on this thread. Very disappointing to see.

msop has been trying to make the point that some of you are guilty of the exact same thing you accuse others of. She is 100% correct.

And just for the record, those who'd like to mischaracterize Mr. Cathy of Chik-Fil-A, maybe you haven't read this article by a prominent gay activist:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-l-windmeyer/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a_b_2564379.html

He and I agree 100% on treating others with mutual respect and kindness, even with those whom we disagree. My hat is off to both men!!!

 

[Circe]

Hatefullness is a perspective, not a religion, class, characteristic, or trait. I really dislike this tendency to proclaim that hating bigots BACK is bigotry.

It's not.

It's self-defense.

 

[kenny]

I know of several local Christian churches, in including Catholic ones, who welcome gays.
Some even have rainbow flags prominently displayed outside their buildings.

Not that I'll ever walk into one of them ... but ... still, painting with a wide brush doesn't cut it.

Also I'll mention that 'traditional' is a dangerous term.
Tradition is simply what was usual in the past ... if tradition is groovy can people in slave states in 1861 argue that 'tradition' makes slavery okay?

Selling cigarettes is traditional too.

 

[Circe]

Actually, ditto Kenny - that's an important distinction. "Religious" is not a synonym for "bigoted." Many people interpret the teachings of their religions in the most generous ways possible. I reserve my ire for the ones who choose otherwise.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I know of several local Christian churches, in including Catholic ones, who welcome gays.
Some even have rainbow flags prominently displayed outside their buildings.

Not that I'd ever walk into one of them ... but ... still, painting with a wide brush doesn't cut it.

Thank you, Kenny. I would be happy for you to attend church with me anytime! And you know what? I respect your beliefs and I believe you respect mine. People vary and can have mutual love and respect. That's how I operate.

 

[ericad]

Lol, are we really debating whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance?

 

[kenny]

I know of several local Christian churches, in including Catholic ones, who welcome gays.
Some even have rainbow flags prominently displayed outside their buildings.

Not that I'd ever walk into one of them ... but ... still, painting with a wide brush doesn't cut it.

Thank you, Kenny. I would be happy for you to attend church with me anytime! And you know what? I respect your beliefs and I believe you respect mine. People vary and can have mutual love and respect. That's how I operate.

Indeed!
Totally!

A person's views and beliefs are second to what's in their hearts.

 

[Kaleigh]

If you post, you should be able to do so... And if your opinion is against the grain?? YOU still should post..

I don't know much about all of this. I know I don't like anyone pushing their values on others..

I hate that I lost my brother to AIDS... Had he been treated, I would still have my one and only sibling..

THAT IS PRICELESS!!!

So sue me for signing up for not giving my money to those that spew hatred....

And I am Christian..

 

[kenny]

Lol, are we really debating whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance?

Yes, this is the wave of paradox that I often surf.

 

[Gypsy]

Lol, are we really debating whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance?

Yes, this is the wave of paradox that I often surf.

Yup. Apparently we are.

It's called evolution.

And I agree that tradition is a dangerous word.

 

[SB621]

Lol, are we really debating whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance?

Erica I love reading your posts! You just cut through the crap

Not like this really needs to be debated more but I'll throw in my .02cents. I won't shop at HL, eat at CFA or most of the other companies all mentioned here. Same with not buying products that I know are made in Germany (which is a practice among many familes who lost members in the Holocaust). It might not matter to the workers of that company, to the CEO or anyone else. But it matters to me. It is my way of saying I don't have to support their ideals.

 

[chrono]

Many of the US manufacturing machines are made in Gemany; how far will you take your boycott? Stop eating Hershey and M&M company chocolates? Stop buying products from US companies that purchase machinery from Germany?

 

[SB621]

Many of the US manufacturing machines are made in Gemany; how far will you take your boycott? Stop eating Hershey and M&M company chocolates? Stop buying products from US companies that purchase machinery from Germany?

More so with companies that utilized a slave labor force during WWII or actively promoted (still promote) Nazi violence. However it is habit for example, then when I look at etched glass I will look to see where it was made. I don't find it different from ppl who refuse to buy from countries that use child labor or don't have fair labor laws. To some it may sound very odd, but my family, what is left of them, were all forced labor prisioners. I understand the arqument that modern day Germany shouldn't pay for things done in the past. This isn't against Germany and their citizens as much as it is a sign of respect to my grandparents and their parents. I won't promote a company that essential led to ppl's deaths.

I hope that helps you understand a bit more on my stance Chrono.

 

[chrono]

SB,
Thank you for explaining without getting all in arms; it makes sense to me now.

 

[makhro82]

Lol, are we really debating whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance?

Looks like it.

I don't define myself as a Christian. I try to be a decent person and part of that is standing up to injustice with my voice, wallet, or anything else I'm able to. I will never think it's okay to spread racist, sexist, or homophobic beliefs.

 

[ericad]

Lol, are we really debating whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance?

Erica I love reading your posts! You just cut through the crap

Not like this really needs to be debated more but I'll throw in my .02cents. I won't shop at HL, eat at CFA or most of the other companies all mentioned here. Same with not buying products that I know are made in Germany (which is a practice among many familes who lost members in the Holocaust). It might not matter to the workers of that company, to the CEO or anyone else. But it matters to me. It is my way of saying I don't have to support their ideals.

Aw thanks! If you think this is good, I'm up to my eyeballs in the health care conversation here and on a certain FB page, lol. I guess I'm feeling feisty today!

My mom is Czech. Until the day he died, my grandfather didn't own a German product. He lived through the holocaust and saved lives as part of the resistance. I understand what you're saying about showing respect through your purchasing decisions.

 

[makhro82]

Hi,

I think its a good action to be able to take if you feel strongly about an issue. The Hobby lobby issue is not a strong one for me, and I like the store for framing my artwork, so I'll continue to use them. Catholic Hospitals, Religious institutions, who object can have a dispensation as far as I'm concerned. BirthControl pills are affordable and are just one more, of many things that may not be covered by their health insurance.

Now, there are issues, womens issues(other than the above birthcontrol), race issues, antisemitism and a few others that are important to me.I would never use Good Old Gold for diamonds. His views are so at odds with mine: issues that I have worked so hard for in my lifetime. I wouldn't give his business a dime. Its my opinion and only mine, and there is no libel attached, although there are those that wish to make it so.

Its our own choice how to spend our money. I hope to choose wisely.

I want to know about this.

 

[Gypsy]

Hi,

I think its a good action to be able to take if you feel strongly about an issue. The Hobby lobby issue is not a strong one for me, and I like the store for framing my artwork, so I'll continue to use them. Catholic Hospitals, Religious institutions, who object can have a dispensation as far as I'm concerned. BirthControl pills are affordable and are just one more, of many things that may not be covered by their health insurance.

Now, there are issues, womens issues(other than the above birthcontrol), race issues, antisemitism and a few others that are important to me.I would never use Good Old Gold for diamonds. His views are so at odds with mine: issues that I have worked so hard for in my lifetime. I wouldn't give his business a dime. Its my opinion and only mine, and there is no libel attached, although there are those that wish to make it so.

Its our own choice how to spend our money. I hope to choose wisely.

I want to know about this.

I second this. When Jon posted dead fetus' on the Good Old Gold BUSINESS Facebook page, that was it for me. I even had a free gift certificate I won, and sold that rather than use it. Then when I won an AVR, I traded that to Thing2.

I have no issue with anyone who does business with him. And I even recommend GOG on RT, but for my personal funds-- I can't do it.

 

[makhro82]

Hi,

I think its a good action to be able to take if you feel strongly about an issue. The Hobby lobby issue is not a strong one for me, and I like the store for framing my artwork, so I'll continue to use them. Catholic Hospitals, Religious institutions, who object can have a dispensation as far as I'm concerned. BirthControl pills are affordable and are just one more, of many things that may not be covered by their health insurance.

Now, there are issues, womens issues(other than the above birthcontrol), race issues, antisemitism and a few others that are important to me.I would never use Good Old Gold for diamonds. His views are so at odds with mine: issues that I have worked so hard for in my lifetime. I wouldn't give his business a dime. Its my opinion and only mine, and there is no libel attached, although there are those that wish to make it so.

Its our own choice how to spend our money. I hope to choose wisely.

I want to know about this.

I second this. When Jon posted dead fetus' on the Good Old Gold BUSINESS Facebook page, that was it for me. I even had a free gift certificate I won, and sold that rather than use it. Then when I won an AVR, I traded that to Thing2.

I have no issue with anyone who does business with him. And I even recommend GOG on RT, but for my personal funds-- I can't do it.

Whoa, whoa what? I guess I'm not as active on the board as I should be because I knew nothing about this!

 

[ksinger]

Hi,

I think its a good action to be able to take if you feel strongly about an issue. The Hobby lobby issue is not a strong one for me, and I like the store for framing my artwork, so I'll continue to use them. Catholic Hospitals, Religious institutions, who object can have a dispensation as far as I'm concerned. BirthControl pills are affordable and are just one more, of many things that may not be covered by their health insurance.

Now, there are issues, womens issues(other than the above birthcontrol), race issues, antisemitism and a few others that are important to me.I would never use Good Old Gold for diamonds. His views are so at odds with mine: issues that I have worked so hard for in my lifetime. I wouldn't give his business a dime. Its my opinion and only mine, and there is no libel attached, although there are those that wish to make it so.

Its our own choice how to spend our money. I hope to choose wisely.

I want to know about this.

I second this. When Jon posted dead fetus' on the Good Old Gold BUSINESS Facebook page, that was it for me. I even had a free gift certificate I won, and sold that rather than use it. Then when I won an AVR, I traded that to Thing2.

I have no issue with anyone who does business with him. And I even recommend GOG on RT, but for my personal funds-- I can't do it.

Ha. I never knew who that was back when he discussion was going on, but I suspected, and I was right. I"m not surprised in the least.
Due to other FB interactions (incidental ones I saw on another page and unrelated to diamonds, since I am not "friends" with Jon) that revealed mindsets, I've been moving towards not considering GOG for purchases (like I could buy anything right now anyway, since I'm not making any money while our worthless congresscritters get full pay to screw me and the country to the wall) due to some of the views expressed. Not evil or anything, just really truly not my cup of tea. I missed the fetus (thankfully). That might have really solidified me if I'd seen it.

 

[makhro82]

Wow and I thought this and the premium thread were depressing... I looked up the thread about that vendor and I'm taken aback by some of the things that I read from other Pricescopers.

Sorry for the following threadjack but that post is locked.

To completely ignore race because you have not experienced racism or because White people voted for a Black president.
is ridiculous.

Or that there are code words meant to be racial but they really aren't because people are too offended and how can racism change if we constantly see things through the prism of race (well for one thing that's the prism we all live in). Wow.

Race has shaped the way I see things and it is one of many lenses in which I see the world. There is nothing wrong with that. I would much rather look through a lens of love but that is not my reality. I've been ignored and followed in stores, isolated in school from my peers, spat on, called abusive names, denied jobs and then I married a Black man who's life I fear for everyday (not being melodramatic) because society doesn't always value him the way that I do. And then we had the nerve to live in the burbs!

There are things that are obviously racist and then there are the subtle ones like the image referenced in the post. Some people are worried about coming off as racist and if that is your gut feeling then you should probably rethink it because it probably is AND if racism weren't very real and a struggle for people everyday then there'd be no "race card" to pull.

I don't consider myself a Christian and I don't want the focus to be about the two people mentioned in the article but more so the dual realities of anyone considered "other" in America whether it be the poor, gays, Jews or Blacks like mentioned in the article: http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2013/july/3-things-privileged-christians-can-learn-from-trayvon-marti.html?paging=off

And with that I am on a self-imposed Pricescope hiatus because to stick around is not good for my blood pressure or sanity. It truly hurts my heart that in 2013 this is the way we still see each other...

Sorry for the threadjack but I had to get that off my chest after reading that.

 

[Circe]

Ha. I never knew who that was back when he discussion was going on, but I suspected, and I was right. I"m not surprised in the least.
Due to other FB interactions (incidental ones I saw on another page and unrelated to diamonds, since I am not "friends" with Jon) that revealed mindsets, I've been moving towards not considering GOG for purchases (like I could buy anything right now anyway, since I'm not making any money while our worthless congresscritters get full pay to screw me and the country to the wall) due to some of the views expressed. Not evil or anything, just really truly not my cup of tea. I missed the fetus (thankfully). That might have really solidified me if I'd seen it.

Er ... just a quick correction. There was a thread that referenced this where a loose description trying not to be triggery wound up giving the wrong impression. (I know, 'cause I'm one of the ones who had it, and violently - I hate shock tactics, and particularly those that are dishonest, as the gory images in the anti-choice promotional materials come from stillbirths, not abortions.) Unless there were multiple pictures, which I doubt given the reaction that one got, it was a stylization of a live baby shrunken to fetus-size in the palm of a hand, meant to pull heart strings, not turn stomachs. I still disagree with his position, but I can continue to respect him for communicating it civilly.

 

[ksinger]

Ha. I never knew who that was back when he discussion was going on, but I suspected, and I was right. I"m not surprised in the least.
Due to other FB interactions (incidental ones I saw on another page and unrelated to diamonds, since I am not "friends" with Jon) that revealed mindsets, I've been moving towards not considering GOG for purchases (like I could buy anything right now anyway, since I'm not making any money while our worthless congresscritters get full pay to screw me and the country to the wall) due to some of the views expressed. Not evil or anything, just really truly not my cup of tea. I missed the fetus (thankfully). That might have really solidified me if I'd seen it.

Er ... just a quick correction. There was a thread that referenced this where a loose description trying not to be triggery wound up giving the wrong impression. (I know, 'cause I'm one of the ones who had it, and violently - I hate shock tactics, and particularly those that are dishonest, as the gory images in the anti-choice promotional materials come from stillbirths, not abortions.) Unless there were multiple pictures, which I doubt given the reaction that one got, it was a stylization of a live baby shrunken to fetus-size in the palm of a hand, meant to pull heart strings, not turn stomachs. I still disagree with his position, but I can continue to respect him for communicating it civilly.

Well, I'm still glad I did not see it, because I'm certain it would have irritated me mightily, to see something like that on a business page, where I go to see what the business has to offer, not to be unwittingly subjected to a political or religious bully pulpit. But as I said, my opinion has been formed from a couple of other discussions, and learning who was the one who posted it didn't surprise me.

 

[Circe]

Wow and I thought this and the premium thread were depressing... I looked up the thread about that vendor and I'm taken aback by some of the things that I read from other Pricescopers.

Sorry for the following threadjack but that post is locked.

To completely ignore race because you have not experienced racism or because White people voted for a Black president.
is ridiculous.

Or that there are code words meant to be racial but they really aren't because people are too offended and how can racism change if we constantly see things through the prism of race (well for one thing that's the prism we all live in). Wow.

Race has shaped the way I see things and it is one of many lenses in which I see the world. There is nothing wrong with that. I would much rather look through a lens of love but that is not my reality. I've been ignored and followed in stores, isolated in school from my peers, spat on, called abusive names, denied jobs and then I married a Black man who's life I fear for everyday (not being melodramatic) because society doesn't always value him the way that I do. And then we had the nerve to live in the burbs!

There are things that are obviously racist and then there are the subtle ones like the image referenced in the post. Some people are worried about coming off as racist and if that is your gut feeling then you should probably rethink it because it probably is AND if racism weren't very real and a struggle for people everyday then there'd be no "race card" to pull.

I don't consider myself a Christian and I don't want the focus to be about the two people mentioned in the article but more so the dual realities of anyone considered "other" in America whether it be the poor, gays, Jews or Blacks like mentioned in the article: http://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2013/july/3-things-privileged-christians-can-learn-from-trayvon-marti.html?paging=off

And with that I am on a self-imposed Pricescope hiatus because to stick around is not good for my blood pressure or sanity. It truly hurts my heart that in 2013 this is the way we still see each other...

Sorry for the threadjack but I had to get that off my chest after reading that.

Makhro, I don't know which thread you traced to to find those attitudes, but given that there have been plenty to which I can see your post applying ....

1) Agree on all counts.

2) Bookmarking that link as something that might hopefully communicate I position I believe in in a way that I haven't been able to get across at time when talking to people coming from that background.

3) I am so sorry this has been a source of hurt. PS is a great community as per its focus, but these discussions can be weirdly painful, popping up in a place where a shared hobby can blur the demarcations we see in larger society. I tend to feel like "We all get along!" until one of these pops up, and then it's like "... we live in completely separate Venn diagrams, don't we." It can be frustrating, to say the least.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ha. I never knew who that was back when he discussion was going on, but I suspected, and I was right. I"m not surprised in the least.
Due to other FB interactions (incidental ones I saw on another page and unrelated to diamonds, since I am not "friends" with Jon) that revealed mindsets, I've been moving towards not considering GOG for purchases (like I could buy anything right now anyway, since I'm not making any money while our worthless congresscritters get full pay to screw me and the country to the wall) due to some of the views expressed. Not evil or anything, just really truly not my cup of tea. I missed the fetus (thankfully). That might have really solidified me if I'd seen it.

Er ... just a quick correction. There was a thread that referenced this where a loose description trying not to be triggery wound up giving the wrong impression. (I know, 'cause I'm one of the ones who had it, and violently - I hate shock tactics, and particularly those that are dishonest, as the gory images in the anti-choice promotional materials come from stillbirths, not abortions.) Unless there were multiple pictures, which I doubt given the reaction that one got, it was a stylization of a live baby shrunken to fetus-size in the palm of a hand, meant to pull heart strings, not turn stomachs. I still disagree with his position, but I can continue to respect him for communicating it civilly.

Thank you for correcting this, Circe. Jon's purpose indeed was to show the size of a baby at a certain point of development in the womb in order for people to think about the life that some might consider destroying. I saw nothing shocking about it since it clearly was a plastic model of a baby. Jon has a heart of compassion for babies, and he has a lot of courage to stand up for his beliefs as far as I am concerned.

 

[packrat]

It *wasn't* a real fetus. It was a doll, some sort of figurine, in a fetal position, representing a fetus, it was not an *actual* fetus. And it was on his personal page, not his business page.

 

[ksinger]

It *wasn't* a real fetus. It was a doll, some sort of figurine, in a fetal position, representing a fetus, it was not an *actual* fetus. And it was on his personal page, not his business page.

Well, shucks, WAS it even Jon then? Asked somewhat TIC, because it appears that everything back in that other thread (which I confess I only paid cursory attention to: the high points you know - FB/vendor/fetus picture/business page, after which I was uninterested, since my FB interactions are (some may be surprised) just about totally drama-free, and I keep them that way) was some sort of massive misrepresentation.

If it was his personal page as you say, well then, no opinion. Your personal page and "friends" there, are strictly your own. But as I said, sideswipe me on your business page, and I won't appreciate it.

 

[packrat]

Yes, it was Jonathan. Yes, it was a total hullaballoo over someone being offended over something they saw, that they misinterpreted, on his personal page, not the GOG page, and there was discussion over whether it's right/proper for vendors to have public opinions, and there was a lot of rabble rabble about the whole deal. It was so long ago, I don't recall if it was one of those reborn type dolls, or what---I remember getting an email a few different times that had these little tiny "babies" that were supposedly made out of marzipan-that's what it looked like if you google it.

 

[Rhino]

It *wasn't* a real fetus. It was a doll, some sort of figurine, in a fetal position, representing a fetus, it was not an *actual* fetus. And it was on his personal page, not his business page.

Well, shucks, WAS it even Jon then? Asked somewhat TIC, because it appears that everything back in that other thread (which I confess I only paid cursory attention to: the high points you know - FB/vendor/fetus picture/business page, after which I was uninterested, since my FB interactions are (some may be surprised) just about totally drama-free, and I keep them that way) was some sort of massive misrepresentation.

If it was his personal page as you say, well then, no opinion. Your personal page and "friends" there, are strictly your own. But as I said, sideswipe me on your business page, and I won't appreciate it.

Agreed ksinger.

I hope the moderators allow this thread to stay open because my name has been mentioned and I pray they allow it to stay open so I can clarify my thoughts.

Oof ... where do I start?

Firstly ... while I am known as the "face" of Good Old Gold I am not the sole owner of GOG. There is my mom and my two younger sisters. I also have other family working for me and we treat all as equals. There is a diversity of beliefs within our family that cover the gamut from race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Hence you will not find anything to do with any of this on the Good Old Gold business page. I resent anyone posting and saying that GOG posted dead fetus' or racist comments because Good Old Gold nor me personally on my own personal Facebook page never posted such a thing. To say otherwise is an outright lie as some here are clarifying on my behalf (thank you Janis, Circe & Pakrat).

I will tell you plainly what I personally did post on my own personal page if you really care to know because quite honestly I have nothing to hide. I wear my heart on my sleeve and if the moderators keep this open I am happy to share with you guys and also answer any personal questions you may want to ask me.

It is a Saturday here in our store and I am quite busy so I don't have time to post everything I would like to clarify so I'll try and hop on later.

Kindest regards,
Jonathan