Another uncomfortable topic. Kind of.

[Gypsy]

The preggers PSer thread got me thinking about something I read on here a while back. There was a thread where for some reason a few Psers mentioned that they and their SOs had decided against having children (I think someone wanted a fifth child whose husband didn''t want another one).

And I was struck by that because it''s a decision DF and I have made too. And sometimes well... it can be an uncomfortable one. I like kids. We have nieces and I truly enjoy them. But we don''t want any of our own.

The reason I say it''s an uncomfortable topic is because it''s just one of those things that people who don''t feel the same way frequently have an odd reaction to. We''ve gotten reactions ranging from utter disbelief to personal affront.

And I''ve never really been able to talk about this with anyone who is in a similar situation. So I thought I''d bring it up. If you have made this decision -- was it a hard one for you, and if you feel comfortable sharing the reason for making the choice would you mind sharing? And has it been a decision that has been difficult for you to defend-- I don''t know if that''s the right way to say it... what I mean is... have you had to deal with bad reactions from people around you because of this choice. Still not phrased well... but I think you can get the point.

We have many personal reasons that I don''t feel comfortable sharing-- but they all boil down to one main reason. We just feel that it''s a very serious commitment that should be entered into only by those who truly understand what they are getting into, and welcome the challenge of it wholeheartedly. Otherwise we feel that it''s just not right to bring a child into the world who isn''t 100% wanted and that we aren''t 100% committed to.

Also, if you''ve decided to have children... but can understand why other''s decide not to... your opinions and insights would be lovely too.

Anyway... thanks. This is something that I personally have been feeling weird about because I really don''t want children... and I feel like there is something wrong with me sometimes because I don''t.

 

[Mara]

Gyp there are at least two other threads asking exactly what you did...you may want to search and check them out. They got very long and pretty heated. There's nothing wrong with you of course! I think in today's society things are different than they used to be where families just happened and there wasn't a lot of thought put into it first.

In the past we were really not sure if we wanted kids (as I have said in old threads), I don't really LIKE a lot of other people's children unfortunately, but it's probably the way they are being raised. Child rearing seems so lax nowadays vs when I was a child. We are starting to wonder if maybe we do want to consider kids...not for a few years probably as we have some traveling to do first...but we're still not 10000% sold..we'll have to see I guess where life takes us. It's such a huge responsibility.

But for now Portia is an only child...and she's spoiled too. We are kind of worried if we do decide to have a child that she would freak out!

 

[decodelighted]

Okay so you''re living inside my head ... do you want to eat those choc. chip cookies on the ottoman too? I''ll wait for an answer.

I''m 38, going to be 39 in September ... my fiance is 34, 35 in August. This issue is FRESH on the docket as I''ve never wanted kids & he thought he did - but has since changed his mind. And since we''re gettin'' hitched in October -- and have so little fertile time left -- I''ve been SUPER thinking about how we''re going to explain this, as its bound to come up more & more any day now.

One big deal -- he''s the end of his family line. Only child of an only son ... name ends here. Ooof.

I''m interested in hearing what others say as I haven''t really figured out "the story" yet ... the reasons are also private/personal & not easily encapsulated in cocktail party chat.

Also - sometimes I waiver. It''s only now that I''m surrounded with friends & family poppin'' em out like crazy. Honestly it takes everything I believe in & know to be true to NOT give in to my competitive nature & societal pressure & the "name" deal & JUST DO IT.

One of my best friends is going through something similar too - only her marriage is on the line. She thought she''d change her mind & want kids. He does, big time. They''re trying to work it out ... but ... she ain''t pudging. And she''s 41.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay first (sorry Mara but chocolate comes first)-- Deco I definitely want those cookies. I want the ottoman too but Pudgy (Noel's nickname) has dibs.


Now... I REALLY can't handle another heated thread. LOL. So JUST A GENERAL COMMENT please, try to keep it sub-tropic in here. I myself have a temper and BIG RED HOT ISSUE BUTTONS so if this is one of yours please give breathing a chance and if that doesn't work (doesn't work for me on some issues, just makes things build)...

That said...

Mara I will look for the other threads. Not tonight, as I've got a lovely caramel in my mouth, a cat at my feet and just posting this has made me feel vulnerable. Plus it's 1:26 am and my bedtime. I too have a HUGE issue with child rearing today. And teenage culture too thanks to the nieces. While I am fairly sure our child would be reared well at home... children aren't at home enough to sufficiently control the input they are getting. As for where life takes us... same here. Can't say NO 1000%. But I've never wanted them. And didn't even like them until the nieces.

Yeah... not sure how the cats would respond at all. Shelia ADORES children... but she has rivalry issues with the cats already so I'm sure that wouldn't help at all. And THEY are my babies.

Deco... that's tough. FI is the only son of an only son so same goes. And his family really thinks this is a phase-- those members that know about it. And FI assumed (but never sat down to think about it) he would have kids one day. I'm 30. He's 33. So technically there is time... and who knows what time will bring. But I've felt this way for a long time.

For your friend... that sucks. BIG TIME. But if she doesn't want a child... for me... it's not a good thing to bring one into a home where there will be resentment possibly and hard feelings... and maybe even neglect as a result of forcing it. Are they in therapy?


ETA: I'm off to bed. Will check in with this thread tomorrow though. Thanks to you Mara, and to you Deco for sharing such personal insights on here. Much appreciated. and I look forward to any future discusions. And thank in advance to anyone else that shares too.

 

[Mara]

mmm cookies. we just polished off the rest of the chocolate mousse from dinner last nite...hee.

here are the two threads i was thinking of. one was about ''does anyone prefer not to have a dog'' but somehow it morphed into kids vs dogs or something if i recall.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-here-prefer-not-to-have-a.30782/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/any-dink-double-income-no-kids-couples-out-there.31842/

gypsy, what you said is correct re: rearing the child at home but you can''t control the outside world. it just seems like so many of today''s kids are so ill-behaved and it seems like parents are just numb.

it''s funny because we definitely feel slightly more open to thinking about kids now than a year ago....but every time we go out to a restaurant and there is a squalling child or someone throwing a tantrum, we look at each other and go GOSH...is this what it''s like??

it''s funny how much we waffle back and forth.

but we have some friends who have kids, young kids and they are pretty well behaved and we like being around them. plus i can''t deny that sometimes i feel a little pang ... maybe it''s my clock finally ticking, who knows. but no decisions to make yet!! we''re still mulling things over. it''s not like we are super young to begin with, greg will be 38 in 2 months and i am 31 and we don''t plan to really decide for a few more years.

 

[Kaleigh]

I can totally understand people that choose not to have kids. Seems to me many people today opt not to have them and I respect that. I feel that today it''s easier to say I''m not having kids than when I had mine. Back then, 19 years ago someone would have looked at me as though I had 3 heads if I said I didn''t want kids. I always wanted to have kids. I had mine very young and wouldn''t change a thing, and adore them with all my heart. But I do understand people that choose not to have them. Obviously it''s a very personal thing, but you have to do what''s right for you and your SO.

 

[Dancing Fire]

kids topic again

i''m still recovering from those two threads.

 

[justjulia]

I think you can only control the patch of earth you are standing on at the moment. It doesnt'' matter what other people do. A thought: My mother and father divorced later in life. He remarried. She did not. She now has serious health problems and thankfully has her adult children to look after her. It''s a circle of life thing. Having said that, my brother and wife did not have children; he wanted, she did not. My children will probably take care of him in his golden years. A thought.

 

[Lorelei]

Gypsy, we have been married for 18 years and we always agreed we didn't want kids for various reasons. I always knew from when I was a tiny child I wasn't meant to be a Mother. Thankfully the man I wanted to marry felt the same way and even after all this time we are happy with our decision. Our families could be a pain at times as well as complete strangers patronizingly assuming our feelings with knowing glances, and comments such as " oh you will change your mind." I found this very annoying, it was a decision the two of us made which had nothing to do with anyone else. I always found that people would love to imply that we were abnormal etc for not wanting kids. My " maternal" feelings have always had an outlet with my precious animals and they have completely fulfilled my nurturing side.

To this day we have no regrets at all and are glad we didn't cave into pressure to reproduce. We have more in the way of material things and freedom that our parenting friends can't have. I am sure they don't envy us as they are content with their decision, however when another friend produces a child, I never wish it was me.

So Gypsy there is nothing wrong with you! I truly believe we aren't all cut out to be parents and you and your Husband have to make the decision which is right for the two of you. It shouldn't be up to anyone else to pressure you in any way. I have had it said to me " who is going to take care of you in your old age?" I truly believe that is one of the worst reasons to bring a child into the world, plus it doesn't always work as I have witnessed - it doesn't guarantee a thing, nor should you expect it.

So stick to your decision and don't let anyone make you feel bad or abnormal for not choosing parenthood. Rather be proud that you have the courage to live your lives the way you want!

 

[Maria D]

style="WIDTH: 95.1%; HEIGHT: 104px">Date: 6/27/2006 1:01:41 AM
Author:Gypsy

The reason I say it''s an uncomfortable topic is because it''s just one of those things that people who don''t feel the same way frequently have an odd reaction to. We''ve gotten reactions ranging from utter disbelief to personal affront.

Gypsy, in a nutshell, some people are strange. Just remember that people''s reactions are about them, not you. I once worked in an office where one of the guys made it known that he and his wife were not going to have kids and this one woman was incensed by this. She would always pester this guy about how "selfish" he was and how he and his wife would come to regret this decision. I never understood why she cared so much! We later found out that her own husband wanted only one child and she wanted a brood. Apparently she spent so much time arguing with her husband about his so-called "selfishness" that it just spilled out inappropriately into other relationships.

No matter what life decisions you and your husband make, there are going to be people who think that not only are your decisions the wrong ones (and theirs are right, of course) but that they must tell (nag?) you about it. After my daughter was born, my brother wanted to know when we were planning the next one. We weren''t. On and on he went about how only-children were a problem. When my daughter was age 2 and clinging to me he''d wag his finger and point out the "only-child" behavior. Never mind that that''s normal toddler behavior and he himself was an only child for 6 years before I came along! When my daughter was pre-school age, my husband and I decided not to send her to pre-school. Yes, we got the utter disbelief and personal affront too! We were ruining her chances for a good life at age 4. Now she''s twelve and has little interest in organized sports, but doing just fine academically. The busy-bodies are letting us know that this lack of interest could lead to calamities from not getting into a good college to promiscuity and teenage pregnancy -- we must do something!

My point is that vocal, opinionated people are always going to be a problem. They seem to border on hysterical when it comes to children and parenting. You can''t change them so you have to change your own reaction. I like what you said in your post -- that the reactions can be odd. I think I''m going to use that myself the next time I get some unsolicited parenting advice -- "gee, your reaction seems very odd to me, are you OK? " Turn it around and make it about them instead of trying to defend your decision.

I did not go back and read the other threads but I *think* they were more on the lines of "not sure we want children or not, what made up your mind." That is quite different than a couple who has already made the decision but is uncomfortable about the reaction to it.

>>We just feel that it''s a very serious commitment that should be entered into only by those who truly understand what they are getting into, and welcome the challenge of it wholeheartedly. Otherwise we feel that it''s just not right to bring a child into the world who isn''t 100% wanted and that we aren''t 100% committed to. <<

My advice to you is not to share this reason unless you are in the mood for a debate. You are right about it being a very serious commitment. But you are wrong that it should be entered into only by those who truly understand....you can''t truly understand until you do it. Many people that do not welcome the challenge wholeheartedly (ambivalence is normal!) end up rising to htat challenge. This is where the busy-bodies will want to debate you: You *will* end up wanting your own child! You *will* end up being 100% committed! blah blah blah. I think this is the kind of statement that some people read as "she wants to be talked into it."

Don''t know if I answered your question, but I do understand your feelings. I don''t know where the idea that it was "selfish" to not want children came from. I see so many selfish parents!

 

[nytemist]

You''re fine Gypsy. There are scores of other couples like you. Don''t let the opinions of some make you think there is something wrong with your decision.

Many women, (and we know some, you have to admit) are raised to believe that they must be a mother or they are not a whole woman. My personal feeling is that''s crap. I''m not meaning to offend anyone, it''s just how I feel about it. I knew very early- my teen years- that I had no urge to have kids. I was the neighboorhood babysitter. I love infants; I find them so entertaining. I''m going to be a great aunt in a few days, but there is no desire to have one. When I was in college, my aunts and mom would always tell me by 30, I would change my mind and crave motherhood. After I turned 31, I told my aunt my clock was broken.

This was a problem between Ian and I had a couple of years ago. I was clear on not wanting children, he said one day maybe he would like to be a father of at least two. The relationship went forward, but that was always on my mind as a potentional break-up reason. We had a sit-down about it and I basically said there are too many things I want to do without having to worry about the financial strain, finding sitters or a teenager wrecking my house with a party while we''re away. I don''t want to give up my life for 18-20 years. His side was that children add to your life, not take away from it. He is also the only boy of his siblings, the last with the family name. They are a small family.

Something changed his mind two years ago. he came to me and said he was sorry for making me worry about where we were going if he wants kids. He realized that there are also things he wants to do and he would just like it to be us (and his cats!)

Since we got engaged, we have had many of the "have-to''s" ask us when we''re having children and when we say we aren''t, they react like they''ve been slapped. "What do you mean? You have to have children! You can''t deny yourself the best experience you''ll ever have..." It goes on. They think what''s the point of getting married? To me, because WE want to be a unit. Some have gone as far to tell us that we''re being selfish. I respond to that by saying which is worse: not having children at all, or having them because everyone tells you that you should and then, years down the road, having the child sense the resentment from me (becasue a child can sense everything)? Then call me selfish.

Everyone should stand proud of your choice of being childless or not. My bridesmaid is pregnant now with her first and she already envies that Ian and I can go where we want when we please. I talked to her yesterday and I mentioned that we came back from New York this weekend and will be going to Montreal next week on vacation. There was some sadness in her voice when she said "yeah, we won''t be doing anything spontaneous for a long time." I just can''t give that up.

Sorry it''s a long post, but I had to weigh in.

 

[blodthecat]

OK..... I will share my past with you.

I have been married before (the marriage lasted 8-yrs). My first husband was a lovely guy and we married young. He was from a big family and was really looking forward to having his own family. He was really good with children and I just knew he would make a fantastic dad.

Sadly, the first two years went by and I wasn't pregnant. We had years of tests and pills to boost fertility etc......I went down to theatre twice for two different procedures, and my husband had surgery for varicoceles. But to cut a very long story short, I checked out fine, but my husband was sterile. His sperm count was very, very low. The sperm was abnormal in shape and there was no motility

This was absolutely devastating for my husband. People usually assume that if you can't have children, the women must be the problem. My husband's world collapsed around him....and he didn't want to tell people or discuss it with anyone. I guess men associate their fertility with their varility. He just didn't want anyone to know.

SO......we decided to carry on with our lives. And yes, we did have new cars and went on nice holidays more than most....BUT what was so painful was the comments from people who said we were "too selfish to have children" and "too wrapped up in ourselves"

They had no idea what we had been through. These 'off the cuff remarks' caused us so much hurt....because the truth was we didn't have a choice. We didn't feel we wanted to tell everyone the details of our personal situation...it was private and we were still very raw from everything that had happened.

I even had one relative say "I know she won't have children, because she can't stand them"

The truth was I used to watch my co-workers come into work with their new babies and I had to get up and walk out. I was just dying inside.

Anyway...there was one option we could try. That was donor insemination. My husband at the time was really keen to do this. I don't think he had accepted the situation, because he said if we had a baby by donor insemination, then afterwards I might fall pregnant by him. (like you read in magazines about someone adopting, then finding out they're pregnant)

This wasn't going to happen, and he was just NOT accepting the situation.

Anyway, we went through the screening for donor insemination and I was given some drugs to make me super fertile. After tracking my cycle for a few months, I was given an appointment to be inseminated. I was told that the donors were usually medical students who were sexually active. At the point of donation, they are clear of HIV and Hepatitis etc.....but because the samples are used within 5-6 weeks, there is no 100% gaurantee that you will be ok, as some diseases take up to 3-months to show in blood results. (things maybe different now, but back in the 80's this was the situation)

Bloody hell......I cried an ocean over all this. I felt like i was inbetween a rock and a hard place. And the worst thing was, there was no one I could share this with.

As the appointment came closer, I lost my nerve. I cancelled the appointment and couldn't go through with it. I don't have a problem with donor insemination per se, it just wasn't right for me.

Sadly, this brought our marriage to an abrupt end. I can't begin to tell you the kind of pressure we were both under and how stressfull it was. But the comments from people calling us selfish hurt deeply...and they were very insensitive, because they didn't know our situation.

So......if someone tells me that they don't want children, I don't even question it..because i have no right to intrude into their personal life or question what decisions they have come to.

Blod

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 6/27/2006 4:23:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

kids topic again

i''m still recovering from those two threads.

Ditto

 

[Dancing Fire]

Blod

Wow !! thanks for sharing. true,it is not always the women''s fault.

 

[ephemery1]

As somebody who has always, always wanted to have kids (and I''m only 26, so none yet and no big rush)... I have to say that I feel MUCH more of a kinship with people like Gypsy, who are thoughtfully and objectively considering the decision... than people who just blindly decide to have kids without a second thought as to whether it''s right for them.

If you decide to have kids, great! You have proven yourself to be smart and responsible just by thinking it through first... good qualities in a parent! If you decide not to, also great! There are a million other ways to live your life as a productive, happy, valuable member of society without producing children.

In my opinion, anybody who deems you selfish for taking into account your own needs and wants before deciding to do something that will change your entire life... and the life of a child, is being selfish and narrow-minded themselves.

 

[Gypsy]

Damn I hit backspace. ARGH! lol.

Okay. Deep breath.

First, Mara those threads were perfect and invaluable. Thank you. There were so many thoughts and opinions and fears shared there that struck me.

From the person who said that it took them a while to realize that the appropriate response to I'm pregnant is "Congrats," (me too!)... to the one confessing the pregnancy scare they had a while back and how terrified they were (me too!)... to the discusions on 'permanent' birth control options.

Then there were the voices of parents who described the joys and rewards of parenting, and those who weren't parents, but wanting to be, discussing thier decision-- thier hopes and thier feelings. And while reading these... realizing that there really is no answering whisper to these voices in my heart.

Most important for me were voices like Lorelie's, who had made the decision and have lived with it in comfort. I just want to thank everyone who shared thier feelings on those threads and on this one.


As blodthecat has so generously illustrated, you can never know what is in another's heart.

And as nytemist said and I agree, "Everyone should stand proud of your choice of being childless or not." Although this is an ideal. And it does assume that there is a choice to be made in the matter. I think that one of the most important things these threads (all three of them) have highlighted for me is that people on both sides of this choice have occasional doubts and look over to the other side wistfully. And that this is natural and healthy. And that neither side is wrong for thier choice, or weaker for thier doubts and fears.


As Kaleigh pointed out, it's an easier decision to make now, to not have kids, than it was years ago. And I am thankful for that.

And finally to all of those advising how to deal with the reactions that inevitably follow decisions like this... and some were hilarious and others were just so wise... I'm so grateful, because well... tact isn't something I'm known for, and having a script to follow is a huge weight off my shoulders.

"My advice to you is not to share this reason unless you are in the mood for a debate. You are right about it being a very serious commitment. But you are wrong that it should be entered into only by those who truly understand....you can't truly understand until you do it. Many people that do not welcome the challenge wholeheartedly (ambivalence is normal!) end up rising to htat challenge. This is where the busy-bodies will want to debate you: You *will* end up wanting your own child! You *will* end up being 100% committed! blah blah blah. I think this is the kind of statement that some people read as 'she wants to be talked into it.'"

Maria... I have taken your words above to heart, as well. I will avoid this line of reasoning as I have no wish to debate with anyone about this.

I am feeling much less alone, and much more normal. And sane. Thank you all for your insights, and your stories.

ETA: ephemery I agree 100%. And I'm so glad that you've made the right decision for youself, and I also, feel the kinship. Thank you.

 

[blodthecat]

Date: 6/27/2006 12:16:01 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
Blod

Wow !! thanks for sharing. true,it is not always the women''s fault.

Forgot the end of the story......

After my divorce, i met my current husband (and getting pregnant was like falling off a log!)
We have been happily married for 14-years and have two gorgeous girls

But for sure, my experience has taught me not to judge people...because we don''t always know all the facts.

Blod

 

[bstraszheim]

Hey Gypsy,

You are definitely not alone! I am 29 and have never felt the yearning to be a parent. I am the one who posted in the other thread about "Congratulations" being the appropriate response to pretty much anyone telling you that they are pregnant. I tended to go the "what the hell are you going to DO?" route.

I have never wanted kids, and something I told my now husband when we were still dating. That can definitely be a relationship breaker. My husband is not on the fence about it, but he sometimes has a foot hanging over : ) Sometimes he thinks we should, but most often not. I think he wonders if we won''t regret it later, but that is not a reason to have a child. Being that I will be the primary care giver in the child''s life, it''s not a sacrifice I am willing to make. And just by using the word "sacrifice", it shows my position.

I do not get asked a lot about when we are having kids. We have been married for 7 years now. My mother used to pester me all the time about it and I finally told her that we are not doing it. I have been telling her this since I was 16, I think she thought I would change my mind once I got married. I haven''t. My sister has a little boy, who is darling, but I can''t handle him for long periods of time. I just can''t. Similarly with my neice on my husband''s side. She''s cute. Can''t handle her for any length of time. My husband''s parents have asked us about it once, and we said we didn''t want to have kids. I am sure they think it a pretty foreign situation as my husband, his brother and sister are all adopted because his folks couldn''t have kids.

In a way, it pisses me off about people talking about being "selfish" by not having kids. Selfish to who? The child that is unborn? It makes no sense to me that this is a "selfish" decision. I think it is far more "selfish" to have a kid you don''t want, resent the child, not give your all to his/ her upbringing because you couldn''t say "I don''t want to have children." It definitely must be projection about their lives.

With regards to having someone to take care of you when you are old, your kids may not do it anyway! Plus, all the money for 20 plus years of care of food, clothes, education can all go into a fund, hell with all the money invested, you will have excellent care in old age!

We live in a time where having a child is a choice and I''m all for people having their choices. To have kids, or not have them.

I wish you well,

Bridget

 

[Allisonfaye]

It is my feeling that anyone who makes the decision to NOT have children should be applauded. How many times have we all seen someone who clearly had no business being a parent try to raise kids? It is a serious life choice, one that should not be taken lightly. Children are not pets.

I am wondering who makes these comments disparaging you for NOT having them.
I wonder if you are perceiving something that isn''t there (I could be VERY wrong here). Is it possible that people who make comments say something like "you are making a mistake'' because they don''t want you to miss out on something they think is truly great?

In this day and age, I never make a comment or ask a question of someone who doesn''t have children. If they want to share they will.

 

[Grace43537]

Gypsy: I totally know where you are coming from. I''ve been married for just over a year and every time we see family and friends the first thing they ask is when we''re going to have a baby. Sometimes I just smile and say "I don''t know" and other times (depending on who it is) I''ll have some sort of a catty response. For me, it boils down to finances. My husband and I simply do not have the income to support another human being. As far as I''m concerned we never will. In the area that we live in (Northwest Ohio) jobs are scarce and don''t pay too well. The cost of housing has also gone through the roof. We rent a small apartment now and IF (big if) we ever had children we''d have to get at least a 3 bedroom/2 bath house and in a decent neighborhood it would probably cost close to 200K. Not on our salaries! Even if we had the income to support a child, I often find others'' children to be annoying and ill-behaved and undoubtably would have to hire a nanny to care for the child. Not to mention the responsibilities that come along with having children. I think that now that smoking has been banned in practically all of the restaurants they should have a "children" section and a "non-children" section for people like me! Another consideration for me is the rising cost of education. We would be forced to send our children to private school since the public schools here are crap and the cost of college isn''t going down anytime soon.

I should also mention that my husband and I are under a ton of pressure to have children because we are Catholic. Everybody knows that the more babies Catholic people have the more Catholic people there will be and so the Catholic church will have that much more $$. IMHO. I often say that if the Catholic church would like to pay me to have children then fine, otherwise stay out of my bedroom!

-Grace

 

[Matata]

I''ve probably responded in the other threads on the subject but, what the heck, here goes again. My 25th birthday present to myself was a tubal ligation and I''m now 51 and haven''t ever regretted the decision. My mother gene, or whatever it is that programs us to want to procreate, is defective in large part due to my childhood -- alcoholic abusive father, emotionally unbalanced mother, we lived in poverty, yadda yadda. I married young but knew that my chances of having the secure life I needed increased if I didn''t have kids -- and, quite frankly, I was afraid that as a product of abuse, I would be an abusive parent. So for those and many more reasons, I remained childless. It was the right choice for me. Gypsy, dear heart, make the right choice for you. And, that''s all you have to say to those who may critcise your decision or those you try to make you feel as though your life is diminished in some way -- just tell them you made the right choice for you.

 

[Small]

Date: 6/27/2006 12:18:11 PM
Author: ephemery1
As somebody who has always, always wanted to have kids (and I''m only 26, so none yet and no big rush)... I have to say that I feel MUCH more of a kinship with people like Gypsy, who are thoughtfully and objectively considering the decision... than people who just blindly decide to have kids without a second thought as to whether it''s right for them.

If you decide to have kids, great! You have proven yourself to be smart and responsible just by thinking it through first... good qualities in a parent! If you decide not to, also great! There are a million other ways to live your life as a productive, happy, valuable member of society without producing children.

In my opinion, anybody who deems you selfish for taking into account your own needs and wants before deciding to do something that will change your entire life... and the life of a child, is being selfish and narrow-minded themselves.

Very well said

.
Being a parent isn''t easy (I am the mother of two that are 15 mos apart so I know about it being hard LOL) and its very life altering. I can''t tell you how much I took for granted the freedom of going and doing whatever whenever and when my daughter was born it all changed. I would NEVER give up either of my children for the world. They are the lights in my life and the love in my heart but that''s not for everyone.
After I got married my husband decided he wasn''t ready for children and didnt know if he would ever be. I was heartbroken. We had talked about having 2 maybe 3 kids. It was a point of contention for 2 years (and almost destroyed our marriage) until he gave in and decided to see what was in store for us. He ofcourse adores our children. But he does tell me that his life wouldn''t have been unfulfilled without having kids. He wouldn''t trade them but if we wouldn''t have had them he wouldn''t have cared.
It''s a hard choice to make. It''s not something people should enter into lightly. I don''t know that I can say anyone is truly prepared for children even if you want them 1000%. It''s probably the hardest job one will ever have and the most worrisome LOL. And also the way the world is today...it''s a scary thing to bring a child into this world with all that''s going on. It''s something my husband touches on regularly asking me, "what were we thinking???"
Gypsy...there is absolutely nothing wrong with you for not wanting to have children and you should be angry with people that can''t respect your decision. There is alot to be said for living your life as a DINK (dual income no kid) couple, I just think society puts so much pressure on women to reproduce that when women decide not to it becomes a taboo of sorts which is utterly ridiculous.
I''m reading a very good book right now (just came out) called ''baby proof'' by Emily Giffin. Same type of scenario...a couple doesn''t want to have children and has to deal with the fallout. You may want to pick it up...its been very good so far.

 

[SquareCut]

I also support people''s decision not to have children. It is not selfish at all. If anything, having children is more selfish since your doing it for yourself, because you want to reproduce. Don''t get me wrong - I want to have children, BUT, if I wanted to be truly unselfish then I would adopt one of the many children who are waisting away in romainian orphanages. THAT is unselfish.

 

[galeteia]

Wow, those were quite the threads. Eye-opening in many ways.

I think most people would agree that whether or not you have children is one of the most important decisions a person (or couple) can make in their life.

I, personally, think it is something that should be considered carefully. I don't believe that anyone decides to, say, buy a house on the spur of the moment... but there are people out there who get pregnant with less thought, which astounds me.

I have utmost respect for anyone who gives this decision all the thought and consideration it deserves, regardless of what choice they make. I, too, have had to deal with people's odd reactions when I tell them I'm not having children. The usual response is "You will later when your clock starts ticking." (or worse: "There's nothing more important than having children!" as if one is a failure if you don't.

)

My answer varies depending on how rude they are being. For the ones who are really belligerent about it, I tell them that my mother died while giving birth to me, and that I inherited her heart condition, with my father's on top of it to boot. That tends to stop them in their tracks.

I don't bother telling them that they did manage to revive her and save me, which was nothing short of miraculous. It's a risk that neither I or my FF are willing to take. This might make people angry, but I don't believe in having children if you aren't going to be around to raise them.

It make my FF sad, sometimes, that we won't have children. He wasn't keen on having them until he met me, ironically, but is now wistful over how 'amazing our children would be'. It also deeply hurts me that my mother's genetic line will end with me-- she is such a spectacular person who has done so much good in her life.

There are lots of other reasons why I don't want to/won't have children, but I am afraid of speaking to them for fear of setting off another explosion.

But I do find it weird when people ask me my reasons not to have children, and then attack those reasons as if they were criticism of them and their lives!

If this helps: I have friends who have decided to forgo careers for children, and some are resentful, and others just glory in being a parent. It makes me all the more convinced that you should WANT your children, even if they weren't planned. It convinces me that I'm just not cut out to be a parent, for many reasons.

 

[bstraszheim]

A retort, that I adore, that someone else posted to the never ending "So, when are you going to have kids??" questions was - "I didn''t know you were so interested in my sex life!"

I wish you well,

Bridget

 

[galeteia]

Date: 6/29/2006 2:00:37 PM
Author: Bridget S.
A retort, that I adore, that someone else posted to the never ending ''So, when are you going to have kids??'' questions was - ''I didn''t know you were so interested in my sex life!''


I wish you well,


Bridget

LOL! Maybe I should use that on my FMIL?

 

[littlelysser]

Gypsy - I wonder if it something with us asscher girls...you, deco and I - and the not wanting kids.

I never imagined myself having children. I'm going to be 32 in a month...the clock hasn't started ticking and I don't think it ever will.

When people ask I just say that I like kids just fine,but I'm just way too selfish and lazy for kids. Plus I love diamonds and bags too much. I find it is easier to kind of make it a joke. And I also say I just don't have the mommy gene. I also think the more career minded you are the less people question that decision. I'm certainly not saying that is a fair thing, but I know when I was working at a big firm, folks were not at all surprised when I didn't want kids, it was much easier to understand that I didn't want them because I'm a workaholic lawyer than I didn't want them just because I didn't want them.

I get some strange reactions from folks. Especially because I LURVE my dogs so much and spoil them silly. Almost everyone says that I'll change my feelings and want a child someday. And I just kind of smile and nod. What is the purpose of trying to convince them otherwise, you know? And although I can't say I know 100% I don't want a child, I'm 99.9% sure. Luckily, my FI feels the same way.

It always kills me when people comment that they are surprised that I'm good with children and babies...Not sure what they thought I'd do with them...but just because I enjoy them, doesn't mean I want my own.

But I do think that it is a common belief that one doesn't really live a full life without children and that children will take care of you when you are older.

As someone with mental illness in my family, I can tell you that isn't the case. I know of a number of parents whose children will be their burden until the day the parents die. I've seen the absolutely devastating effect the mental illness of a child can have on a family. Without going too much into detail, the impact that mental illness has had on my fmaily is one of the main reasons I do not want children. And definitely not cocktail party fodder. My parents know the real reason, as does my FI and my close friends...that is all that matters to me.

And Deco - I do understand the competitive thing. A number of our friends have had children recently and I'll admit, I'm a sucker for a baby. But it is that whole once they can walk and talk and break your heart thing that always draws me back to the no baby side of the fence. I am such a freak about my dogs...worrying about them and such, I can't imagine what I'd be like with a child. Scary thought!

Gah. That was depressing.

That is why I tell people I like bags and shoes and I'm too selfish...cause that stuff is there too...and it is certainly less depressing!

 

[hlmr]

Thought I would share a funny story that my hair stylist told me a few years back......

She and hubby would receive routine phone calls on the weekend from hubby''s mom asking when they were going to present her with a grandchild. She finally came to the end of her rope one day and next time when dear MIL called with the familiar question she sweetly replied: Could I call you back later? I am in the middle of making love to your son in hopes of making a grandbaby for you.

The questioning stopped immediately.

 

[Small]

Date: 6/29/2006 8:31:08 PM
Author: littlelysser
Gypsy - I wonder if it something with us asscher girls...you, deco and I - and the not wanting kids.

I never imagined myself having children. I''m going to be 32 in a month...the clock hasn''t started ticking and I don''t think it ever will.

When people ask I just say that I like kids just fine,but I''m just way too selfish and lazy for kids. Plus I love diamonds and bags too much. I find it is easier to kind of make it a joke. And I also say I just don''t have the mommy gene. I also think the more career minded you are the less people question that decision. I''m certainly not saying that is a fair thing, but I know when I was working at a big firm, folks were not at all surprised when I didn''t want kids, it was much easier to understand that I didn''t want them because I''m a workaholic lawyer than I didn''t want them just because I didn''t want them.

I get some strange reactions from folks. Especially because I LURVE my dogs so much and spoil them silly. Almost everyone says that I''ll change my feelings and want a child someday. And I just kind of smile and nod. What is the purpose of trying to convince them otherwise, you know? And although I can''t say I know 100% I don''t want a child, I''m 99.9% sure. Luckily, my FI feels the same way.

It always kills me when people comment that they are surprised that I''m good with children and babies...Not sure what they thought I''d do with them...but just because I enjoy them, doesn''t mean I want my own.

But I do think that it is a common belief that one doesn''t really live a full life without children and that children will take care of you when you are older.

As someone with mental illness in my family, I can tell you that isn''t the case. I know of a number of parents whose children will be their burden until the day the parents die. I''ve seen the absolutely devastating effect the mental illness of a child can have on a family. Without going too much into detail, the impact that mental illness has had on my fmaily is one of the main reasons I do not want children. And definitely not cocktail party fodder. My parents know the real reason, as does my FI and my close friends...that is all that matters to me.

And Deco - I do understand the competitive thing. A number of our friends have had children recently and I''ll admit, I''m a sucker for a baby. But it is that whole once they can walk and talk and break your heart thing that always draws me back to the no baby side of the fence. I am such a freak about my dogs...worrying about them and such, I can''t imagine what I''d be like with a child. Scary thought!

Gah. That was depressing.

That is why I tell people I like bags and shoes and I''m too selfish...cause that stuff is there too...and it is certainly less depressing!

I can''t believe the number of you who have to explain your choices to people. I find it to be really rude and I''m in disbelief that so many have the odacity to question you on your personal decisions

.
The worrying about your children never stops. It''s one of the evils of being a parent. It''s all consuming if you ask me and one of the downsides. I''m a worrier by nature so it''s intensified by 1000x because of my kids. Don''t get me wrong...there are so many good sides that it outweighs the worrying (IMO ofcourse

) but geez who knew there was so much to worry about??? It''s exhausting!!!!

 

[fountainfairfax]

Just chiming in with another view of not having children....

For me the decision to not have children originally resulted out of circumstance- I always thought I''d be a mom, my ex and I had planned to start our family when we turned 30 but at 27 he decided he didn''t want to be married to me, we got divorced and I began my single life. I had trouble meeting men, or at least finding anyone who was great husband-parent material..there were just no relationships strong enough to justify bringing a child into the world (I should add that I think my parents set such a high standard of selflessness and parental devotion, that it was always hard to imagine doing it as well as they did.)

For a little while I thought I''d be a single parent, I told everyone if I hadn''t met Mr. Right by 35 I''d start my family alone. But then at 34 I had the chance to marry someone who would''ve been a great dad (maybe not the husband of my dreams but certainly a devoted parent and a good person) and I started to freak out over the responsibility of being a parent- my sister had just had her daughter and I began to realize that it wasn''t what I wanted. By that age I had no desire to raise a child, I just couldn''t imagine such a change in my life. It wasn''t just selfishness, it was an accute awareness that it just wasn''t something that I wanted or needed anymore. So I ended the relationship a month short of getting officially engaged and was very happy that I had dodged the parenthood bullet. It would have been a disaster. He was insistent on becoming parents ASAP and shortly after we split he met someone, married, moved and started a family. And I''ve been told they already have 2 kids in 3 years! I''m happy he was able to have the life he really wanted.

A few months after that split I began my relationship with my FI and one thing we were always in total agreement on was no children. I do feel some guilt about both our parents- my sister said they will not be having another child, which would just leave me to give my parents the other grandchild they''re dying for. My FI''s parents are also crazy to have a grandchild and his brother may very well never have children, either. Of course such guilt is the worst reason to have children but I do feel a little bad, both sets of parents deserve grandchildren. It''s unfortunate for them that we''ve made this decision, but it is totally the right decision for us. I will be discussing tubal ligation on my next dr visit- it''s time, I''ll be 38 in September and I would like birth control to be a thing of the past.

I''m very comfortable explaining our decision to remain child-less to anyone who asks, it''s also one of the reasons I feel no pressure to rush a wedding and marriage...it''s a decision that has allowed many other areas of my life to fall into place as they have and I love the freedom it''s given me. And it probably doesn''t hurt that with the last two generations of women on my dad''s side, the oldest daughter married but didn''t have children. Both my Aunt and Great-Aunt had family who cared for them in times of illness or old-age. I always ask my 3 year old niece if she''ll take care of me some day and she says "yes, if you''ll play little people with me today, I''ll take care of you tomorrow." Kayla, you''ve got a deal