Building a sapphire ering

[londonblue]

I'm back again looking at more sapphires, this time with a clear idea in my mind what i am looking for.. well, in terms of settings that is.

sapphires however.. i have been looking around .. and have seen a lot of crappy ones! i've seen faceted kyanite looking more like sapphires than real sapphires from the same vendor.

but a gem show is coming up this weekend and i'm excited to be checking out some gemstones at one of the larger shows.

Here are the sapphires I've been looking at online:

It seems so futile to attempt to judge the color and performance of a sapphire based on some online images, much less compare sapphires across different vendors. Now my question is if it is possible to make any educated guesses about how other stones from the same vendor or different vendor will perform when I can compare an actual gemstone to it's online image? Hopefully I will be uploading photos by tomorrow or the next day in order to compare.

Yesterday I saw a very nice halo style cushion sapphire ring, it was something like 1.2ct or so, set in a white gold halo style ring and cost around $2.7k. the stone was much better than any i had seen in tiffany's or any other high end mall bm stores. i forgot to ask if the stone was treated however.


The setting I've decided on will be something along the lines of the tiffany's legacy style, which i'm sure everyone has seen more than once around here.
But I was wondering if the bezel setting will darken the sapphire significantly and so should I try to choose a sapphire that's on the lighter side? I'm still trying to figure out what a nice elegant width would be for the halo for an approx 5.5x5.5mm


(images by the end of the week now..)

 

[valeria101]

The pictures look fantastic... hope the stones look that way too. I''d want to see the one loose before it is going to be set - a bit more mailing, but that seems to be well worth it

And here''s why (one example, of course) - LINK

 

[londonblue]

oh yes, most definitely, i would never buy gemstones of this type sight unseen if possible

there's been a slight delay unfortunately, so i won't be receiving the sapphires from cherrypicked until thursday. but i hope to post some photos when i get them.


just curious, does anyone have a preference for one of the sapphires based purely on their online images?

 

[Amandas_Jewels]

Yes I do - the 3rd one. What about you?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/4/2006 1:17:53 AM
Author: londonblue



just curious, does anyone have a preference for one of the sapphires based purely on their online images?

The shape shows pretty well

And some details of cut (windows, and the play of light or contrast if you want to call it that)... Enough to make preferences meaningful... for me.

So, I would vote for the second: hoping for a not-quite-dark blue, lively sapphire. I tend to prefer both somewhat lighter blue and the random cut of oldish stones.

Anyway, they are obviously quite beautiful, all of them. The last seems quite dark (and windowed?) second-guessing the picture a bit. Between #3 and #4, it looks like #3 is finer color and they look similar in shape. Didn't look for price and size to compare them, but it looks like the last one is easily taken out of the list.

Nothing half bad about the first, aside that the shape is not quite what I like. If you do, there's no reason to discount it as an option, IMO.


I would add one on the list too:

I wonder how much is looks and how much wishful-thinking inducing photography between the color of this one and the other. The image looks allot less doctored and the description gives it a high mark in the terms of GIA color scale. If the price looks right, I would ask further.

One sapphire... three photos in different light

fluorescent the 'killer' of gems!

daylight, the blue helper

and daylight, with back light
allowed (usually most flattering!)


The stone is a bit deep, and that shows in the photos, I guess... in the darker shade under the table. Hoping it isn't even this little a detraction in person.

If gemstone photography is an inexact and difficult way of communication, at least these guys are doing something about it!

Wonder where this stone is between the supplier and Dutton Diamonds they work with.

 

[londonblue]

Date: 4/4/2006 2:09:40 AM
Author: Amandas_Jewels
Yes I do - the 3rd one. What about you?

so hard to decide.. but i don't really have much of a choice. i just love the shape of a square cushion stone so it has to be the third one. i really like the second one as well, but it's the wrong shape!
but the two of them look so different - more sparklies on the 2nd one, more color on the 3rd. that's why i want to see them both in person.. it's so tough with online images! especially since i photograph a lot of gemstone jewelry myself, i know how easy it is to get carried away and make something look too much better than it actually is!

the 4th one from the online image just doesn't seem to have the "spark" of the others, but i don't know if that's just from poor photography, or the first few are photographed too well. but is it less costly and if i would i'd want to see that one in person as well

the fun part should be when i can go compare the sapphires to the vendors at the gem show. does anyone have any experience whether the gemstones, be them diamonds or colored stones, are generally better or worse quality than the ones seen in most b&m stores?

thus far i've been completely unimpressed by 90% of the sapphires in higher end b&m stores. although maybe i should check out the truly high-end shops? does anyone have any suggestions for the sf bay area? honestly the sapphires i've seen in tiffany's and shreve & co have been pretty sad and their selection i can count with the fingers on my hands. usually among their meager collections can be found 1 to 2 cushion shape sapphires and if i'm pretty lucky, one that's actually a nice square cushion shape.

Author: valeria101
So, it would be the second and the last - the second seems quite bright, and I tend to like the random cut of oldish stones, and the last... just like the square shape and hope it would not be as dark as the picture indicates.

hmm, how does the picture indicate the sapphire to be dark? please teach me how to correlate sapphire photos to how the actual gems might look what clues do you look for?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/4/2006 2:56:35 AM
Author: londonblue

Author: valeria101
So, it would be the second and the last - the second seems quite bright, and I tend to like the random cut of oldish stones, and the last... just like the square shape and hope it would not be as dark as the picture indicates.

hmm, how does the picture indicate the sapphire to be dark? please teach me how to correlate sapphire photos to how the actual gems might look what clues do you look for?

Sorry... I really do not have anything to teach...

For my own sake (i.e. when no one else can be hurt by mistakes!) I am trying to guess how the picture was taken and what the stone does with light in it. That one obviously was taken under strong light and on a light background - a lighter stone would have let light pass right through and internal reflections would have come though in different shades of blue - this one does not allow to ''see inside'' at all, only glare on the crown facets is distinct. Silk may do the same, but this one does not appear to have any such texture.

Worse, images taken very close up on reflective surfaces would lighten the interior of the darkest sapphires. I can''t pretend this little story is a rule good every time everyplace.

And slightly out of focus picture dull out brilliance too - I assumed that is not the case, since the vast majority of pictures from The Natural Sapphire Company are very professional.

Look, it is very probably unfair for the sapphire and the seller. Please d not take this very seriously. I wish I knew better what I talking about.

If I posted these, hoping for correction too

To me, pictures are not the main source of info about precious stones online. They are warm and cozy and good to have, but all I want to see in them is shape (imagining a black and white wire frame drawing!). The description, price, shop and ultimately a chat with the seller and opportunity to check the thing before the sale becomes final is allot more.

Please add lots of salt, not just a grain!

 

[londonblue]

hi Ana

any insight into looking at these images a bit more critically is helpful for me!
thanks for the images as well

i was also wondering if is it necessary for me to have any sapphires appraised while i''m evaluating them? or is it only useful to spend that sort of money only once a certain gemstone is decided upon?

 

[DiamondExpert]

Ana - "Wonder where this stone is between the supplier and Dutton Diamonds they work with."

- in USA.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/4/2006 7:59:59 PM
Author: londonblue


i was also wondering if is it necessary for me to have any sapphires appraised while i''m evaluating them? or is it only useful to spend that sort of money only once a certain gemstone is decided upon?

It is nice to have a expert peek over your shoulder... but whether you prefer the piece sounds more important... up to you I guess, I would have my choice evaluated only though. Besides, I have yet to meet anyone who would choose a ''bad'' sapphire over a ''good'' one by their own accord (assuming there are no treatment issues, and the person does not have any other consideration but the beauty of what they see). No kidding! That may not work if the line up to look at is a bunch of quirky or questionable pieces. From the line up you have there, this is not going to be much of an issue

If the instinct does fail, having an expert opinion about your choice should take care of that.

My 2c. You don''t have to take it for good, especially if there is an appraiser''s office nearby and you could have sapphires shipped there. I don''t know how or if anyone would accommodate the process (something local jewelers do, but appraisers?).

 

[londonblue]

ah okay.. i''ve just been filling my head with all sorts of crazy ideas from browsing this forum. i assumed that the appraisers were usually dragged into the process so diamond buyers can ensure they aren''t overcharged or sold a lemon or that ''untreated sapphires'' aren''t treated right? i''m assuming i don''t need such an opinion yet with such a reputable vendor as cherrypicked?

now i''m reading about people getting their stones insured while they evaluate them, or when they have them set, etc, etc. what a headache

in any case, the only stone i''m really intersted in already comes w/ a agta cert, and if you can''t trust that, what can you trust right?

thanks for your help! i can''t wait to see the gems!

 

[londonblue]

the sapphires are here!

took a bunch of quick images in different lighting. silly me to first open up the package in my office where it's lit by all of a 60 watt blub and 2 computer monitors!

i as rather disappointed until i reminded myself that the lighting was much too pathetic in there! unfrotunately the sun was gone by the time lunchtime rolled around so i was only able to examine them in overcast weather which may have been brighter due to all the diffuse lighting.

if people are interested i can post more images as i take them in sun, full sun shade, indoor diffuse, etc
thus far i've played with them in my dimly lit office, in the lobby where there was indirect sunlight while it was still sunny, under crappy fluorescent lighting, and outside in overcast weather:
i didn't adjust any levels, etc in these images

under 60 watt bulb, underexposed photo


fluorescent and 60 watt:
v

fluorescent, slightly shadowed by desk



weather outside:


following images taken outside:





















i have a bunch of images taken trough the loupe as well, but i'll have to sort through those later.
under flourescent lighting the sapphires are very violet, almost purple, but my camera has difficulty capturing that violet color range in gemstones, i'll keep trying though.
hope there aren't too many images.

any thoughts?
i'm looking to bezel set the square cushion, is the stone too dark for such a purpose?

thanks!

 

[londonblue]

comparison to their cherry photos (using the overcast outdoor images)

 

[valeria101]

How did I miss these posts!

Gorgeous stuff, especially the two cushions - isn't the round a bit darker?

I might be crazy enough to go with the smallest (brighter color) especially if side-stones are involved, but the square cushion is the logical winner, no?

About setting it in a bezel - well, you can tell for sure by taking a look at the stone with the pavilion sunk in something up to the girdle. I suspect that the looks of the stone in the picture below comes close, and it would be a bit dark for me. Matter of opinion to some extent I suppose.

Was the small cushion just lucky in this picture, or it really is that much brighter ?

 

[widget]

Wow....how great that you get to compare the stones next to each other in real life!

Like you, I''m in love with the square cushion shape stone. That would probably be my pick. But like Ana I''m curious...is the smaller cushion really that much livelier, or was that just a lucky shot?

I have a very nice sapphire, but it too has different "personalities" depending on the light...I guess that''s the nature of the beast..

Let us know what you decide!
widget

 

[MINE!!]

Oh wow... How fun and exciting!! I love it!! WOW....

Okay.. I really like that cushion cut. Very Very scrumtpous. It has a lot of fire !

 

[stermag]

Date: 4/9/2006 7:15:53 PM
Author: valeria101



How did I miss these posts!

Gorgeous stuff, especially the two cushions - isn''t the round a bit darker?


I might be crazy enough to go with the smallest (brighter color) especially if side-stones are involved, but the square cushion is the logical winner, no?


About setting it in a bezel - well, you can tell for sure by taking a look at the stone with the pavilion sunk in something up to the girdle. I suspect that the looks of the stone in the picture below comes close, and it would be a bit dark for me. Matter of opinion to some extent I suppose.


Was the small cushion just lucky in this picture, or it really is that much brighter ?

Wow. I positively love the cushion on the left. Is that the one from CherryPicked? It''s beautiful. Seems exactly what I''ve been looking for, although much pricier, I''m sure.

 

[crafftygrrl]

I am of two minds about your stones--they are all very beautiful.

Like the others, I love the square cushion.

However...being the owner of a very lively sapphire, I love the smaller stone. I love how my stone sparkles.

I bet you could make an absolutely gorgeous three stone halo ring, much like the Ritani one that''s currently in Show Me the Ring Forum (except with a sapphire center stone). It would be very wearable and have tons of impact and personality.

But you should choose the stone that speaks to you.

 

[londonblue]

Just for an idea of the ring that we''re planning on - it''s going to be a halo setting a la the tiffany legacy, maybe w/ a bit of daniel k thrown in, add a dash of engraving instead of diamonds on the shank.

well, about the sapphires themselves, yes, that smaller cushion has some crazy brilliance at certain angles, although it''s sometimes hard to see well due to the size. Both stones have simple AMAZING blue color in and indirect sunlit area. In indirect sunlight the stones look about the same, although the square cushion looks a richer blue, but due to the saturation, it''s harder for it''s sparkle to come through. The smaller rectangular cushion has a slightly lighter saturation and that seems to allow the many faceted sparkle to show thru better. However, the sparkle has a colder, more metallic sort of blue look to it.

I''ll bring my camera along tomorrow and take photos of the gems during lunch in some better lit areas to show how the two gems perform in different lighting.

Ideally I would love to take the two stones and merge them into one, a rich deep blue w/ lovely sparkles, but perhaps that''s not possible?

I can barely resist the square cushion shape and it''s amazing blues, but then I look over at the sparkle of the other one and ...grrr.. I don''t know, just wish the square sparkled a bit more. My other option is to possibly wait and see if a stone that meets both criteria can be found.

My only concern w/ the square cushion is how much it would darken in a halo setting, even if it were prong set in a halo rather than bezel - as I''d want the bottom of the crown to be flush from a side view to the halo. no stones that stick out and above the halo for us!


If anyone is interested here are the links to their pages on cherrypicked:
square cushion
rectangular cushion

The oval isn''t yet listed on their website, but it has the most amazing color as well, I should really take more photos of it.


oh what to do!
I don''t have a quote for a setting yet so I''m not sure how my budget will work out, the square cushion is already a little more than my upper limit, so that''s what makes me want to possibly wait for the oh so perfect stone. let me see if i can dig up more photos in the meanwhile..

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/11/2006 3:05:25 AM
Author: londonblue


I can barely resist the square cushion shape and it's amazing blues, but then I look over at the sparkle of the other one and ...grrr.. I don't know, just wish the square sparkled a bit more.

And a different 'portrait' of the sapphire from Wink's site: LINK



My other option is to possibly wait and see if a stone that meets both criteria can be found.

I would guess the square will darken a bit when set (all stones do). And... the lively one seems too small to stand alone in a setting of that sort. If that was OK with you... that the end of it. But if in doubt, it may be worth to mention that the shop is among the most expensive and looking around to less gistering retail might result in more sapphire for the money - unheated, intense blue @ all. It may take a bit of searching, but...

 

[londonblue]

some more images:

thru the loupe (10x):

direct afternoon sunlight

indirect afternoon

in office, under 60 watt bulb - it''s still blue at the right angles

top view, outside, overcast:

 

[londonblue]

Date: 4/10/2006 7:57:07 AM
Author: stermag
Wow. I positively love the cushion on the left. Is that the one from CherryPicked? It's beautiful. Seems exactly what I've been looking for, although much pricier, I'm sure.

yes, it's 1906 on cherrypicked
At this point I sort of doubt I will be going with that one, altough its sparkle is definitely hard resist. If you're interested definitely give Richard at cherrypicked a call, he's been sooo helpful throughout!

Author: valeria101
And a different 'portrait' of the sapphire from Wink's site: LINK

wow, i really like that spinel, an amazing color. i read all about spinels masquerading as rubies, but there's a sapphire look-a-like right there! unfortunately concave cut doesn't really do it for me..
but any other nice gems i'm definitely open to! i had a most annoying gem show this past weekend, in which square cushions were nowhere to be found, and the mantra to repeat seemed to be "the bigger the better!"
(regardless of quality, cut, or color!)

and while the popular color seemed to be the ceylon with a bluish purple sparkle, it seemed as if many of the stones obtained a lighter saturation via their included nature? And then there was the guy who showed me a 2.5 ct sapphire and I was like, there's an inclusion right in the middle of the stone almost centered under the table, looks like a trapped piece of crystal. And the vendor was like, nah.. i don't see anything.. oh maybe it's a finger print. And I said, no, i'm sure that's a crystalline inclusion of some sort. Finally my girlfriend see it as well, so finally the guy looks at it through a loupe and goes.. oh yeah! hmm, looks like a bubble.. and i think.. a bubble? wait.. that's usually how you tell glass from gem.. by bubbles .. i don't think a seller wants to say there's a bubble in his gem anyway, it looked more like a crystalline structure to me..

oh, or the guy who told me his 2+ ct ceylon sapphire that he was selling to me was untreated, for $600/ct, but it had no certificate. guess i was just suppoesd to take his word for it!

but the rest of them, if they sold loose sapphires at all, and aside from all the ovals and emeralds they tried to sell to me as "cushion cut" ... it was pretty impossible to find a simple square cushion sapphire of 1-2 cts. was i being too picky?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/11/2006 4:05:51 AM
Author: londonblue


... it was pretty impossible to find a simple square cushion sapphire of 1-2 cts. was i being too picky?

Doesn't sound like... just the wrong sort of options. Sorry to hear this

Btw. Bad Idea? Hopefully they'd consider making a discount if you showed them how to take picture like those posted here!

I wouldn't give much thought to those on the website, just ask for copies of the AGTA reports - 'guess they would rather give a candide description of the goods rather than having them promptly returned.

 

[valeria101]

Bad case of wishful thinking... couldn't keep it off the forum though

The sapphire in the picture isTHIS

 

[widget]

Hi, LB...interesting what you said about the dearth of cushion cut sapphs at the gem show. I always thought that behind ovals, cushions were the most prevalent cuts!

A really nice sapph or ruby EC has been on my fantasy list forever. One reason (among many) that I''m so in love with Craftygirl''s ring!

widget

 

[londonblue]

hi Ana,

I looked at simplysapphires before, but unfortunately the only viable cushion candidate looks a bit on the dark side, and their vigenetting is a bit annoying as it makes it really hard to discern some parts of the gemstones

maybe sapphire cushions are really popular which is why they''re so hard to find? only one vendor told me they were popular. the others just didn''t have them


ooh that''s a pretty sapphire, w/ an interesting cut - i remember when my gf and i entertained the idea of getting a sapphire asscher cut


wdiget - yeah, i was rather disappointed by the dearth of cushion sapphires.. exactly none were square cushion, all claimed to be ceylon and all were rectangular cushion.. to maximize weight i guess? the vast majority of blue sapphires seemed to be rounds and ovals. like diamond cushion cuts, they seem to be the odd one out. when i was hunting for diamond cushions, most bm stores or show vendors would have 1 or 2 if we were lucky.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/13/2006 4:37:10 AM
Author: londonblue

i was rather disappointed by the dearth of cushion sapphires.. ... like diamond cushion cuts, they seem to be the odd one out.

Well, fine sapphire is rare enough - so shape doesn't come as a big concern cutting them, many get retouched by their buyer... about as many not. There should be a longer story about why sapphires are cut as they are aside 'saving weight' - for once, it doesn't look like anyone pays that much attention to most, and prices do not look like round diamond prices (no cute thresholds at certain weights). Not that I am fond of the lumpy ovals either. I am surprised you found lots of rounds - those are supposed toe unusual.

Btw, if it has to be cushion by all means, would you have one cut on order? Sapphire rough is not exactly widely available, but it can't hurt to ask around a bit. Looking at how dark these stones were... perhaps something like that can be found in the perfect shape. Or a 'potato' cut could be optimized for you... as long as you want to cope with the weight loss yourself. Since you were willing to pay that sort of cash for a seed-sized sapphire, recuting shouldn't be much of a problem

Looking for a fine sapphire of very specific shape, I would ask high and low and give it time too - that's for sure.


... did you say asscher ?

 

[londonblue]

yeah, all i seem to encounter are many ovals and rounds..
looking around i''ve found these sapphires:

5.5x5.1, .93ct, $500
$462, 1.2ct
5.6x5.4, $1150

$650, 1.11ct, 6.3x5.5
$672, 6.6x5.2, 1.49ct
.84ct, $500, 5x4.8
700, 1.1ct, 5.9mm
5.5x5.3, .91ct, 500

9.9x9.0, 3ct, $12.2K

2.25ct


very hard to find the ideal cushion shape, much less in the right size!
i guess sapphires do come in cushions often enough, more often than diamonds, but seems like it''s not so at the shows.. or in the stores.. i''m not sure lol

 

[londonblue]

hhehe, Ana, I''ve discovered asscher sapphires don''t really exist.. and I think I''ve foudnd the cut to be a detriment to a sapphire, it just doesn''t look any good imho. looks great with diamonds though!
i think the sapphires lack the contrast between the darks and lights that diamonds have to really show the cut off

speaking of sapphires asschers, i''m sure you''ve probably seen these:
asscher eternity
but they just don''t looked like asschers to me as much as slightly messed up emerald cuts



- well, it looks like it''s going to be the square cushion cut then, any last words from anyone before i take the plunge?

should i get the stone appraised first? it does come w/ an agta certificate, and i understand i probably should get it appraised later for insurance purposes before i send it off to be set. The gem will be bezel set and it would make it much harder to appraise once in the setting correct?
So should I get the stone appraised before I make the final purchase? Is it necessary since the gem has a certificate verifying it''s authenticity and the vendor is very reliable? My nearest independent appraiser charges $150 per I believe, and w/ work being so busy I''m not going to have time to make a trip there any time soon, and that''s assuming the appraiser even has time available in the near future.

Thanks!

 

[londonblue]

..because i hate loose threads that just sort of end without being tied up whenever i'm searching for info

here are some final images of the sapphires that were not chosen:

here they are all together (i ended up getting the square cushion):

and the link to the ring in progress thread