This is outrageous....

[steph72276]

Terrorist detainees have been offered the H1N1 vaccine, meanwhile my small child as well as millions of others have not been vaccinated due to shortages. I think this is completely ridiculous, especially given that Mr. Obama has said this is a national emergency and it is affecting pregnant women and small children the most. Shouldn''t our children be given the shot before suspected terrorists? I don''t know about you, but I am NOT okay with this!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/30/guantanamo.h1n1.shots/index.html

 

[D&T]

totally with you Steph- there has been a lot of screwy things lately in this country

 

[tlh]

bizzarre

 

[kenny]

It is weird but detaining people, convicted or not, makes you responsible for their welfare.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 11/5/2009 1:15:08 PM
Author: kenny
It is weird but detaining people, convicted or not, makes you responsible for their welfare.

Yes, but will they really be exposed to the H1N1 in a cell?

 

[packrat]

True, but it shouldn't mean their health and welfare should come before babies/kids and pregnant women and the rest of our citizens.

Ooops, I forgot to hit quote..I was replying to Kenny-sorry!

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/5/2009 1:19:27 PM
Author: packrat
True, but it shouldn't mean their health and welfare should come before babies/kids and pregnant women and the rest of our citizens.

In an moral sense, maybe, but in a legal sense, no.

I empathize completely, and see the irony.
It appears a bad person gets treated better than a good person.

But imagine if a prisoner did get the flu and die.
Since they were incarcerated they could not go out to try to get the vaccine themselves.
Locking people up makes you responsible for protecting them.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 11/5/2009 1:15:08 PM
Author: kenny
It is weird but detaining people, convicted or not, makes you responsible for their welfare.

Kenny, I agree they should have access to the vaccine, but AFTER all law abiding citizens have been offered it...especially the citizens that are most at risk. I have a feeling there are not a lot of pregnant women and small children there

 

[lilyfoot]

Kenny, I agree.

I empathize with all the high-risk people out there who can''t find vaccines. Hopefully something can be done about this soon ...

 

[neatfreak]

I''m not seeing anywhere where they say that the detainees are receiving the shots now?

It says:

"Base officials had not received the vaccinations and did not know when they were expected to arrive, Haynie said."

So to me that says they are not receiving them first...

 

[steph72276]

Neatfreak, I hope people are outraged enough so that they let their voices be heard that these detainees should NOT get the vaccine before innocent children. It is ridiculous they are even thinking about giving them the vaccine until there is adequate access to ALL children that want it. They shouldn''t have even been a blip on the radar until the most at risk groups are taken care of.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I wasn''t going to post on this thread, but my, how quick some are to condemn people who''ve been detained for years without due process. Not everyone detained is a terrorist, and believe it or not some are actually innocent too.

If our government is detaining people, they are responsible for their medical care. If they no longer want to detainees should be released and/or prosecuted.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 11/5/2009 1:24:00 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 11/5/2009 1:19:27 PM
Author: packrat
True, but it shouldn''t mean their health and welfare should come before babies/kids and pregnant women and the rest of our citizens.

In an moral sense, maybe, but in a legal sense, no.

I empathize completely, and see the irony.
It appears a bad person gets treated better than a good person.

But imagine if a prisoner did get the flu and die.
Since they were incarcerated they could not go out to try to get the vaccine themselves.
Locking people up makes you responsible for protecting them.

So criminals deserve better care than a young child who is at risk? I''m reading a vonagut book right now which cracked a joke about a guy having perfect teeth because while in jail they fixed him right up. If only I could send my kids to juvie. I''d save $6K. Man, maybe I should go rob a 7-11.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:40:47 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
I wasn''t going to post on this thread, but my, how quick some are to condemn people who''ve been detained for years without due process. Not everyone detained is a terrorist, and believe it or not some are actually innocent too.

If our government is detaining people, they are responsible for their medical care. If they no longer want to detainees should be released and/or prosecuted.

Ditto. But I do love what people are outraged about in this situation.

 

[brooklyngirl]

thing, I think people have gotten used to this situation, and no longer give it a second thought.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:40:47 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
I wasn''t going to post on this thread, but my, how quick some are to condemn people who''ve been detained for years without due process. Not everyone detained is a terrorist, and believe it or not some are actually innocent too.


If our government is detaining people, they are responsible for their medical care. If they no longer want to detainees should be released and/or prosecuted.

True, some MAY be innocent, but the majority are there for a reason. And I''m sorry, but terrorists should be at the bottom of the list for this type of thing in my opinion.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I agree with you that terrorists should be the last on the list, if you will. BUT, the fact is that WE DO NOT KNOW how many of those people are terrorists, because they have not been prosecuted or even CHARGED with anything. ETA We don't even know what caused them to be suspects in the first place.

What happened to innocent until proven guilty, or heck, innocent until charged with a crime, at the very least? It's bad enough that innocent people are indefinitely imprisoned, should they die in prison as well?

 

[steph72276]

Brooklyn, I see what you are saying. I don''t want this to become a political thread. The point is, that it is declared a "National Emergency" with pregnant women and young children most at risk. These should be the priority, not middle aged men in prison.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Well, I don''t want to tick off the mods and make it into a political thread either so I''ll just say this: Pregnant women and small children are not the only ones at risk, the ones at risk are those with compromised immune systems. There are many reasons for concluding that people held at Gitmo have compromised immune systems.

The problem I see is that people are making moral judgements about who does and does not deserve medical care (given the risk for infection/complications is the same). Perhaps you can argue that this has merit, but in the case of the detainees, we don''t have the facts to make such a judgement.

If it''s a matter of who has more to gain from vaccination (i.e. pregnant women and small children should be given priority), I don''t see any outrage at the elderly, and others receiving the vaccine.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:40:47 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
I wasn''t going to post on this thread, but my, how quick some are to condemn people who''ve been detained for years without due process. Not everyone detained is a terrorist, and believe it or not some are actually innocent too.

If our government is detaining people, they are responsible for their medical care. If they no longer want to detainees should be released and/or prosecuted.

or executed !!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:42:46 PM
Author: MC

Date: 11/5/2009 1:24:00 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 11/5/2009 1:19:27 PM
Author: packrat
True, but it shouldn''t mean their health and welfare should come before babies/kids and pregnant women and the rest of our citizens.

In an moral sense, maybe, but in a legal sense, no.

I empathize completely, and see the irony.
It appears a bad person gets treated better than a good person.

But imagine if a prisoner did get the flu and die.
Since they were incarcerated they could not go out to try to get the vaccine themselves.
Locking people up makes you responsible for protecting them.

So criminals deserve better care than a young child who is at risk? I''m reading a vonagut book right now which cracked a joke about a guy having perfect teeth because while in jail they fixed him right up. If only I could send my kids to juvie. I''d save $6K. Man, maybe I should go rob a 7-11.

only in this country.

 

[Kaleigh]

Unbelievable. There are kids who could die from getting the swine flu, but yet criminals are a priority?? Who made this decision??

 

[JulieN]

Date: 11/5/2009 7:54:29 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Unbelievable. There are kids who could die from getting the swine flu, but yet criminals are a priority?? Who made this decision??

They are still innocent until proven guilty.

 

[sparklyheart]

Just a thought.. If they get the flu and then become seriously ill (but don''t die), could they somehow get a lawsuit started against the government saying they weren''t "protected" from known hazards? If they could do that, could they get out of jail free because of a government mistake? Then we''d have potential terrorists running free because they didn''t get their flu shot. I think the government is just trying to cover their you-know-whats.

Either way, it sucks for the people unable to get the shot even though they are in the high risk groups.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/5/2009 8:03:53 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 7:54:29 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Unbelievable. There are kids who could die from getting the swine flu, but yet criminals are a priority?? Who made this decision??

They are still innocent until proven guilty.

guilty or not...they shouldn''t be getting the medication before our kids.

 

[miraclesrule]

It''s costs more to incarcerate a youth in California (85K for boy, 140K for a girl) than anywhere else in the nation, but it''s almost as costly every where in the U.S.

We''d be better off sending them to Harvard. It''s cheaper.

Having said that, it''s not surprising that in places of mass confluence of people, they would be discussing the vaccination.

Irony... I''m not a fan.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 11/5/2009 8:11:28 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 8:03:53 PM

Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 7:54:29 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Unbelievable. There are kids who could die from getting the swine flu, but yet criminals are a priority?? Who made this decision??

They are still innocent until proven guilty.

guilty or not...they shouldn''t be getting the medication before our kids.

"our kids," i.e. American kids, matter more than somebody else''s son or daughter?

Of course, I get that young children are more likely to die from swine flu. But no one is arguing with the military''s decision to vaccinate all of their decidedly adult members.

 

[vespergirl]

I agree, it''s totally outrageous.

 

[yssie]

My first thought was "that''s completely outrageous".

Then I read this post:

Date: 11/5/2009 8:10:33 PM
Author: sparklyheart
Just a thought.. If they get the flu and then become seriously ill (but don''t die), could they somehow get a lawsuit started against the government saying they weren''t ''protected'' from known hazards? If they could do that, could they get out of jail free because of a government mistake? Then we''d have potential terrorists running free because they didn''t get their flu shot. I think the government is just trying to cover their you-know-whats.

Either way, it sucks for the people unable to get the shot even though they are in the high risk groups.

And I really think you''ve got a point! There''s just no other sane, sensible explanation.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/5/2009 8:23:56 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 8:11:28 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 11/5/2009 8:03:53 PM

Author: JulieN

Date: 11/5/2009 7:54:29 PM

Author: Kaleigh

Unbelievable. There are kids who could die from getting the swine flu, but yet criminals are a priority?? Who made this decision??

They are still innocent until proven guilty.

guilty or not...they shouldn''t be getting the medication before our kids.

''our kids,'' i.e. American kids, matter more than somebody else''s son or daughter?

Of course, I get that young children are more likely to die from swine flu. But no one is arguing with the military''s decision to vaccinate all of their decidedly adult members.

heck yeah!! all of our citizens should be vaccinated first before them detainees.