Summa Cum Laude - how difficult?

[bebe]

My husband''s nephew just announced he was graduating Summa Cum Laude. (dec. grad)
He is not a dumb kid, but we know he is no brain either. It is my
impression this is the highest honor. But don''t the requirements vary from
college to college? I only remember it as something there was no way I was going to reach!
My daughter seems to think he might be embellishing things a bit!!
Don''t you have to have a 3.9 and higher?

 

[neatfreak]

Generally depends on the college, but yes it''s pretty high. What''s his major? Some majors are significantly easier than others...and if his college is easier too that could certainly have an impact on how many people get that honor.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 12/1/2007 10:26:31 PM
Author:bebe
My husband''s nephew just announced he was graduating Summa Cum Laude. (dec. grad)
He is not a dumb kid, but we know he is no brain either. It is my
impression this is the highest honor. But don''t the requirements vary from
college to college? I only remember it as something there was no way I was going to reach!
My daughter seems to think he might be embellishing things a bit!!
Don''t you have to have a 3.9 and higher?

Wow, not sure what to say. How about good for him and congrats??? That comes to mind first and foremost.

 

[zoebartlett]

Date: 12/1/2007 10:26:31 PM
Author:bebe
My husband''s nephew just announced he was graduating Summa Cum Laude. (dec. grad)
He is not a dumb kid, but we know he is no brain either. It is my
impression this is the highest honor. But don''t the requirements vary from
college to college? I only remember it as something there was no way I was going to reach!
My daughter seems to think he might be embellishing things a bit!!
Don''t you have to have a 3.9 and higher?

Bebe, I''m sorry but I think this is an odd comment. Your husband''s nephew is graduating from college. That''s great news! I''m not sure why you''re questioning the honor. Does it matter? I''d congratulate him for a job well done. You should be proud of him.

 

[bebe]

Of course we are happy for him. We certainly are not going to say anything!
Our daughter shared a house with him and his grades were awful, to the point
of asking her for help many times.

He has competed with all the cousins in the family
and made ugly remarks to them through their college years.
It seems he was always trying to up one on the other kids, now this.

Yes, I know it seems petty on our behalf, but it is a honest
question given this kids past behavior and remarks.

 

[Independent Gal]

At my university, Summa Cum Laude meant an A average.

Competition takes two (or three or six, or sixteen). He can only get pleasure from being competitive and one-upping if someone on the other end is playing too.

It will out in the wash anyway. Many colleges announce that kind of honour as they hand out the degree and it is recorded ON the degree, usually. But if i were you, I'd decide not to care, be proud of his accomplishment in getting a degree, and let him grow out of his competitiveness by not responding in kind and encouraging your kids not to 'play' either. It's a good life lesson for them in general anyway.

 

[bebe]

No one has ever said a word to him. We have all just stood
by and smiled and said good job.

My question is don''t you have to pretty much have straight A''s?
And also be in the top 2-4%?
I''m not the first to question this declaration.
And yes, we will all find out at graduation.

 

[pennquaker09]

I had to have a 3.8 complete the University honors program and write a senior thesis. Very few people graduate Summa Cum Laude so generally it's a big deal. And if he's not a brain, then I would doubt it, because one has to do some serious honors type course work to graduate with the highest honors. Also, depending on the college, Summa Cum Laude graduates are inducted in Phi Beta Kappa or something prestigious. Where does he go to college?

And more often than not, if one is graduating with honors, the said honor will be announced.

 

[asscherisme]

Yes, high A average as has been said.

As for judgeing he is not that smart, thats pretty rash to assume about someone.

My husband shocked people at his very large high school in a very good school district by graduating number 1 in his class of over 800. He said people were shocked and said that nobody thought he was so smart.

And then, he went on to graduate number 1 from his college class as well (undergrad). He went on to a very very succesful career after extended graduate education.

You can''t always judge how smart someone is in casual contact.

And for a nephew, does how smart he is reallly matter?

 

[bebe]

He is graduating from UT, Public Relations.

What bothers us the most about this, is he is
claiming something that we all know is
very difficult to achieve. It is considered the
highest honor, correct? Is it possible he
was able to reach this lofty goal, yes.
But probable, no, given what we know.

In the past, we have always looked the other way, took the
high road, because after all this was a young
kid. But to all the sudden claim this honor, when he
has achieved no other academic honors, is a bit
questionable. We are worried if he claims this
and in fact, it is false, there could be ramifications
if he has this on his resume or states it on
job applications.

 

[lumpkin]

It''s the most prestigious. At my husband''s college it required a 3.9 GPA.

Bebe, don''t worry about his job apps. If he''s being honest, good for him. If he''s not, that''s his problem and it serves him right if he''s found out.

 

[Skippy123]

Well look at his diploma; your daughter lives w/him so he might have it displayed. I would let it go. I agree /w Miss Lumpkin; the company will request transcripts and he will learn his lesson.

 

[Sabine]

At my school you had to have a 3.9 GPA as well. I agree that you should just let it go, but if you can''t, you can probably find out somewhere on his school''s website what the requirements are for that school.

 

[luckystar112]

If by UT you mean the University of Texas, then yeah...I''d say that was a pretty high honor to get. It''s a really good school.
Actually, just the fact that he got in would say a lot about him.

 

[bebe]

Yes, UT.

Don''t get me started on admissions!
Texas has a policy - top 10% of ANY graduating high school class
is an automatic entrance into any state supported school.

Many kids from large city/suburb schools miss out because they
cannot make the top 10%, even though they have high SAT scores
and high GPA''s. It''s very competitive. So kiddos from small
high schools get admitted and then find the courses too tough.
When my children were in high school, it was common to see smart
kids transferring to small school districts, knowing they would
be in the top 10% and thus, gain admission into UT.
Luckily my kids made it in, despite attending a very high school.
Both had 1000+ in their graduating classes.

 

[erica k]

i went to pomona college, which is a pretty darn good school, and graduated cum laude (gpa of 3.84). magna cum laude was something like 3.87 and summa cum laude was 3.90. for many schools it varies every year depending on the overall grades of the graduating class (since you are, in fact, being assessed against your peers).

other schools use a different rubric. for instance, i''ve known some schools to give cum laude to 3.5, magna cum laude to 3.7 and summa cum laude to 3.85.

if he is indeed graduating with honors, it will be announced at the ceremony and listed on his diploma. i can understand your skepticism, but it''s probably best not to dwell on it.

i was lucky enough to go to a liberal arts college that was more supportive of individual and collective intellectual development than pitting students against each other for merit-based awards and accolades.

i now go to a school where the undergrads are obsessed with straight A''s (which has unfortunately led to rampant grade-inflation). don''t get me wrong, these students are some of the smartest people i''ve had the privilege to teach, and they worked hard to get into one of the (if not THE best) schools in the US, but i often feel like they care more about scoring that A than about learning and growing as an intelligent person. sigh.

all of these awards and labels are useful in some respects, but people should concentrate more on themselves than on how others perceive them. i was admitted into phi beta kappa, and it''s a nice thing to put on my CV, but it certainly doesn''t make me think i''m a smarter person because of it. same thing with graduating cum laude. i fought tooth and nail to become a better student in college; and i am proud of the things i accomplished, things that cannot be summarized in a transcript.

 

[kellyfish]

Summa Cum Laude at my university meant a 3.9+ average. Usually it is included in writing in the graduation booklet/program-thingy given out at the ceremony. Seems like Cum Laude is something like 3.2+, Magna Cum Laude is something like 3.6+ & Summa Cum Laude is the highest. Sometimes students that were not that great in high school go on to do wonderfully in college for whatever reason.

I was a total under-performer in high school & graduated from grad school with a 3.94. I'm sure there are kids from high school who wonder how I pulled it off. For me, it was finding a degree path that i loved & gaining confidence. It was an extra bonus to feel like I overcame the odds to get there.

 

[zoebartlett]

If a company asks for transcripts, they''ll see what he earned. This isn''t something he should put on a resume (well, I wouldn''t anyway, but I''m not sure what proper etiquette would say).

 

[Maria D]

Date: 12/2/2007 2:17:15 PM
Author: bebe
Yes, UT.

Don''t get me started on admissions!
Texas has a policy - top 10% of ANY graduating high school class
is an automatic entrance into any state supported school.

Many kids from large city/suburb schools miss out because they
cannot make the top 10%, even though they have high SAT scores
and high GPA''s. It''s very competitive. So kiddos from small
high schools get admitted and then find the courses too tough.
When my children were in high school, it was common to see smart
kids transferring to small school districts, knowing they would
be in the top 10% and thus, gain admission into UT.
Luckily my kids made it in, despite attending a very high school.
Both had 1000+ in their graduating classes.

If UT accepts the top 10% of any graduating high school class, graduating from a school with a smaller graduating class will NOT give an applicant any advantage. One out of 10 kids is in the top 10% regardless of the size of the class; that is the meaning of percent. Say you graduated in the top 10% of a school with 1000 grads. You are one of 100 that are accepted into UT. If you graduated in the top 10%of a school with only 50 grads you are one out of only 5 that gets accepted into UT. You can see that going to the smaller school gives you no advantage -- there will be fewer ''slots'' in the 10% club.

If your nephew got into UT by being in the top 10% of any high school then 90% of the kids in his school did not perform as well as he did academically. If that''s the case, you can consider him a smart kid! And anyone that transferred to a small district to be in the top 10% I would consider deficient in basic math.

 

[bebe]

Maria, you are correct, but it is done.
I have personally known parents who have
moved to smaller districts to ensure this!

 

[luckystar112]

I think it would be easier for a smart kid to be in the top 10% of a smaller school than a bigger school. Less competition, right?

 

[Independent Gal]

Fewer people, but for fewer spots thereby making it exactly as difficult as elsewhere.

However, there could be a rural / urban issue. It''s possible the competition is fiercer in heavily populated urban areas because the people who live there, statistically speaking (which is exactly what this is about - statistics) have more education and, potentially, are likely to be more education oriented thereby more likely to push their kids to excel, apply to the best schools, etc.

So that could be why some people move to areas where that is less likely?

Pardon my French, but I personally cannot imagine ever choosing my neighbourhood this way.

 

[oobiecoo]

Unfortunately, people do choose their neighborhoods this way... or at least pay out-of-district tuition. Usually its in high school, maybe even the last year, when things seem to be getting down to the wire and their kids aren''t making the grades to be in the top 10% of their current class. They''ll switch to a an easier school, thus ensuring their kid can get into that coveted university.

bebe, UT is a very prestigious school so it would be very difficult to graduate with honors. Even if he did get in just because of the "top 10% rule", if he did not keep his grades up in college then he would be put on Academic Probation. I would just assume that he actually did recieve the honor he claims and maybe found a major that he was really interested in.

 

[blondie23]

I just wanted to add that I graduated Summa Cum Laude in engineering from Southern Methodist University in Dallas, TX and it was not only printed on all three of my degrees but also in the graduation program (which I know for a fact that UT does). Also, it depends not only on the university but also the major. For example, to get Summa Cum Laude in liberal arts you had to have a 3.76 GPA but to get it in the engineering school you had to have a 3.962.

 

[Maria D]

Date: 12/2/2007 3:24:49 PM
Author: bebe
Maria, you are correct, but it is done.
I have personally known parents who have
moved to smaller districts to ensure this!

There's no way moving to a smaller district ensures anything. You could move to a district that's smaller but wealthier and be competing with a bunch of kids who have bright educated parents and $$ for tutors. The only way to have an advantage is to move to a known 'dumber' district, not a smaller one.

Your own kids got in and are doing OK...so why so much dismay over UT's admission policies, where others choose to live and why, and your nephew's grades? Does it make you or your children's accomplishments any less if he *did* get a 3.9? You said yourself it is petty and it really is.

ETA: I'm surprised an engineering degree needs a higher GPA for the same honors. Interesting.

 

[Haven]

I actually do see a lot of parents who move to smaller districts to give their kids a better shot at getting into college, but it's because many universities have policies about the number of students they admit from particular high schools.

For example, I attended a very large, competitive high school in the northern suburbs of Chicago. The University of Illinois has a policy that they will not admit more than X number of students from this school BECAUSE there are so many students who graduate with outstanding GPAs and ACT scores. I know this is true because I worked in admissions at U of I; it's actually a common practice with these gigantic, wealthy high schools.

I attended college with students from small, rural towns in Illinois who had very low ACT scores (26 and lower) yet they were admitted to the university (some even to the engineering school) because they were from less competitive, smaller schools, and therefore they were ranked relatively much higher than they would have been if they attended a larger, more competitive high school.

HOWEVER, I don't think this is either good or bad--students from these large, wealthy schools have many more opportunities from students at smaller, poorer schools, so I don't think I mind the policy much. It evens out the playing field.