Please HELP interpret my Idealscope image

[turtleridge]

Hi everyone,

I am a brand new member here and I am on the verge of getting this diamond. Please give me your knowledgable feedback on whether this is an excellent stone. Thanks for your time!

Size: 3.01
Color: E
GIA cut grade: Very Good
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Faint


Depth: 60.1%
Table: 60%
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavillion Angle: 40.6
Culet: None

 

[JulieN]

IS is nice, but it seems to not match the numbers.

maybe there's a mistake somewhere, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[turtleridge]

Hi JulieN,

Not sure what you mean. . .are you saying that the cert numbers are not very good/ideal? The image comes from a very reputable dealer recommended by many on this site--I''m hoping that they did not use an image from another stone

. Is there a way to confirm that the image comes from the particular stone listed? Can I get a certificate from the company with the stone attributes and image placed on it?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/24/2007 6:47:01 PM
Author: JulieN
IS is nice, but it seems to not match the numbers.

maybe there''s a mistake somewhere, maybe I''m wrong.

yep there is no way thats an is of a 60% table good catch.
mistake someplace!

 

[turtleridge]

Can somebody explain to a novice how you can tell that the IS does not match the 60% table? I am asking because I have to make sense of this before I go back to the dealer and clarify whether a mistake has been made somewhere.
Much appreciated!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/24/2007 7:22:19 PM
Author: turtleridge
Can somebody explain to a novice how you can tell that the IS does not match the 60% table? I am asking because I have to make sense of this before I go back to the dealer and clarify whether a mistake has been made somewhere.
Much appreciated!

tasble is too small in the IS image its an image of a 56%-57% tabled stone.

 

[turtleridge]

Thanks, strmrdr, I got it. Hmmm, I''m really concerned that the dealer would send me the wrong IS. . .I will bring this up tomorrow and post an update *grrr*

 

[JohnQuixote]

If it will help, you can send these to illustrate the info you''re getting here:

Only an approximation of course, but the wireframe matches pretty well at 56.5%.

 

[JohnQuixote]

It doesn't match at 60%. A 60.1% depth with 60T and those angles requires a thicker girdle. Maybe it's just a table typo?

 

[strmrdr]

Thank you Sir John I was going too do that but you saved me the work.

turtleridge,
Mistakes happen, see how the vendor handles it before making too strong a conclusion.

 

[turtleridge]

Wow--thanks, JohnQuixote, that''s an interesting program you got there. I got a hold of the dealer before he left the office and he told me he was 110% sure that the image belongs to the stone specs above as he compared the image posted (taken by the wholesaler) to what he saw looking through the Idealscope with his own eyes. He was bewildered and questioned how I could possibly tell the difference between 2-3% on a table that wasn''t even visible on the image and that the way the photo was taken could create variances. I didn''t want to question his expertise so I didn''t push it.


I''m not completely relying on the IdealScope to make my decision, but I am interested in seeing the light performance from a scientific point of view. I like the specs of the stone (unless someone can point out any distinct weaknesses I''m not aware of) and I will likely order it to see it in person. Can anyone suggest alternative means of gauging light performance?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Well done guys!!!
Been away for 2 days, and I am redundant.

The IS image is also painted, which on those slightly shallow proportions would be a no no anyway.

I would like to hear what the vendor said?
It could be an honest mistake - or a deliberate bad act.

 

[echelon6]

Best case scenario is the vendor is incompetent
Worst case scenario is blatant fraud

I wouldn''t give him the benefit of the doubt if I were you. Its your money, why risk it?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/25/2007 4:52:36 AM
Author: echelon6
Best case scenario is the vendor is incompetent
Worst case scenario is blatant fraud

I wouldn''t give him the benefit of the doubt if I were you. Its your money, why risk it?

You never ever made a mistake Ech?

 

[turtleridge]

Hi guys, thanks for all your input--although I am beginning to feel very nervous about this diamond. As I mentioned before, this is a reputable dealer highly recommended by PS, so I can''t make rhyme or reason out of this situation. Should I request that the dealer try to take an IS image in his store before making my final decision? Would a Sarin report help?

Please suggest some steps I can take as time is ticking. . .thank you!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/25/2007 11:16:53 AM
Author: turtleridge
Hi guys, thanks for all your input--although I am beginning to feel very nervous about this diamond. As I mentioned before, this is a reputable dealer highly recommended by PS, so I can''t make rhyme or reason out of this situation. Should I request that the dealer try to take an IS image in his store before making my final decision? Would a Sarin report help?

Please suggest some steps I can take as time is ticking. . .thank you!

yes too both.

 

[Chase035]

I would adjust your thinking on this stone. It''s may not be the beauty you once thought, and I wouldn''t set yourself up for disappointment. The dealer is likely going to go for the hard sell at this point. I''d trust the people on this board.

 

[Chase035]

A good start would be to tell the dealer Gary Holloway agrees that the IS doesn''t match the specs. Also, read up on painted girdles to understand his point about why you''d want to avoid them.

 

[turtleridge]

The dealer says they do not have the capability to take an IS image in their office so if I want one, to use an independent appraiser. Is it worth it at this point to proceed with paying for an appraisal?

Also, here''s the specs of anothe stone I''ve been eyeing. Do this one seem like a better choice?

Measurements: 9.31-9.35 x 5.62 mm
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
GIA cut grade: Very Good
Depth: 60.2%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 34
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Girdle: Thin-Med
Culet: None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good

Thanks again for your help!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Since you have a vendor with a good reputation it should be easy to solve the disconnect. He said the wholesaler took the image (that’s unheard of...I hope they will offer this to others). Is it possible the wholesaler got two diamonds confused? The ideal-scope image you posted is not a diamond with a 60% table so we can’t really comment on it.

Date: 10/25/2007 1:09:59 PM
Author: turtleridge
The dealer says they do not have the capability to take an IS image in their office so if I want one, to use an independent appraiser. Is it worth it at this point to proceed with paying for an appraisal?

Also, here's the specs of anothe stone I've been eyeing. Do this one seem like a better choice?

Measurements: 9.31-9.35 x 5.62 mm
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
GIA cut grade: Very Good
Depth: 60.2%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 34
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Girdle: Thin-Med
Culet: None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good

Thanks again for your help!

We can’t tell you much about the new item without images either. As you know, an ideal-scope will reveal much. The basic measurements are good so it likely received a VG in cut because of the G symmetry rating. While not bad, symmetry of less than EX-VG for a round may indicate a diamond with visible variations. Also, how important is optical symmetry to you? Again, ideal-scope would be the ticket.

One of our tried and true statements around here is “trust – but verify.” It sounds like you have a good relationship with the dealer, but if he is unable to provide images I think an independent appraiser is a good investment; especially for such a large purchase.

 

[turtleridge]

I think you''re right, JohnQuixote, verification is key. The dealer said he can walk the diamond over to a local appraiser. It''ll cost $350 for a full appraisal. . .I will post images once they are completed.

 

[JohnQuixote]

For clarification, independent appraisal is one where the expert is someone disinterested in the transaction, usually paid directly by you. It sounds like your dealer may be brokering it - which does not really make it independent. I'm not counseling one way or the other - just clarifying.

$350 is pretty steep. A thorough appraisal can be had for less. Perhaps one of the PS appraisers can offer advice.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

 

[turtleridge]

The appraiser requested that I send a copy of the GIA cert & IS image before even going through with the appraisal to see if the stone falls within my expectations of the diamond I want (probably because he agrees paying $350 for a stone I may not end up liking IS very pricey). Well, guess what: he agrees with everyone here that the image definitely does not belong to the stone on the certificate!

I have gone back to the dealer to have him clear this up with the owner of the stone and hopefully have a response or correct IS image. I am pretty exhausted and frustrated at this point but I am determined to find the right stone.

Should the dealer I am working with be able to see what everyone on PS sees as far as table % discrepancy? Should I be concerned that he doesn''t?

If someone can find a better stone with the following criterias, maybe I will just move past this drama altogether:

1. Excellent cut
2. D-F color
3. 3.00 ct (or 2.80 and above with good spread)
4. SI1 (completely eye clean)
5. Under $43K

 

[TravelingGal]

That sounds very steep...I had my appraisal done for about $100, and that''s here in L.A. Although she didn''t have some of the tools that some use, so I imagine that would drive up the cost a bit.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/25/2007 3:57:18 PM
Author: turtleridge


Should the dealer I am working with be able to see what everyone on PS sees as far as table % discrepancy? Should I be concerned that he doesn''t?

Probably less than 1% of the jewelers in the US have ANY idea about the technical minutae that we involve ourselves with here at Pricescope.

While I think every jeweler in the US out to have and know how to use the ASET machine, let alone the Idealscope, there are currently FEWER THAN 50 DESKTOP ASET MACHINES BEING USED BY US JEWELERS!

Talk about pathetic! Two years after thay have been introduced and allow a jeweler to INSTANTLY show why a diamond looks good or bad there are fewer than 50 of them being used by US jewelers! My guess, at least 50% of the jewelers who bought them use them or even understand HOW to use them, doubly pathetic!

So, to answer your question. Should he be able to, yes, is he able to, probably not. Most jewelers are NOT jewelers, but sales clerks, even at the wholesale level. I can not make jewelry with my own hands, so I refer to myself as a gemologist, but you probably think of me as a jeweler.

In spite of the best efforts of the AGS and GIA, there are very few really well informed gemologists out in the field, with even those who have the Graduate Gemologist degree from GIA are forgetting to or not taking the time to keep current in their field. It is truly a shame that so few bother to be professional in a field that sorely needs more professionals and fewer used car salesmen.

thus endeth the evening rant...

Wink

P.S. I got my number by talking directly with AGS about the number of units in use. My estimate of how few of the jewelers that bought them understand how to use them is my own, but if anything it is probably kind to the jewelers to assume that 50% know how to use it.

P.P.S. Maybe Gary can tell us, but I would be willing to bet that there are as many or more privates who own idealscopes as there are jewelers.

P.P.P.S. Gary has a dealer in the States, David Atlas, who could sell your vendor an idealscope and teach him how to take a picture if he is interested. Since you say he is well respected here on Pricescope, then I am going to assume that he is one of the gentlemen who is at least interested in knowing more about his craft and that once he finds out how easy it is to take the picture that he will be much more happy to provide it. I am for giving him the benefit of the doubt, otherwise he would not be well respected here.

 

[turtleridge]

Hi Wink, I think you are 100% accurate. But I would like to propose that the jewelers don''t want to know about these devices and software programs because they think it will actually hurt their sales. They want to remain authorities on the subject matter--not be questioned by machines.

In any case. . .the revised IS image is in! Please take a look and let me know what you think. Everyone has been so helpful and patient. Thank you fo rall your help!

 

[JulieN]

Ok, this Ideal Scope is the right one. table is the right size, and the distribution of black is what I expect to see from the angles you gave.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/25/2007 7:37:45 PM
Author: turtleridge
Hi Wink, I think you are 100% accurate. But I would like to propose that the jewelers don''t want to know about these devices and software programs because they think it will actually hurt their sales. They want to remain authorities on the subject matter--not be questioned by machines. of course, but tell them "welcome to the Web2.0 world"

In any case. . .the revised IS image is in! Please take a look and let me know what you think. Everyone has been so helpful and patient. Thank you fo rall your help!

Symmerty is fine,
showing a little of the shallow effects from the dark lens = will look great from 14 inches of more, but if you have a big hair do - and dark hair etc - it will look dull from 6 inches.

I like these stones most dont.

They are exceptional in earrings and pendants too because they dont get lights from the floor and get big ugly dark zones.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

BTW this shows the stone is not painted.
And these proportions will out perform 41P 53 crown any day after a days dirt has accumulated

 

[turtleridge]

Garry, can you go into a little more detail why you like this stone while most will not? Does this mean that my stone is far from ideal? I ask because I don''t plan on upgrading in the future so I want to be confidant that this stone has classic beauty that will last my lifetime.