Opinion on Blue Sapphire

[ChrisA222]

I was hoping to be able to post these pics back to back, but then I remembered, PS will put one below another.

Try to ignore the bits of extinction in both stones (the black areas). Those are, essentially, 'unlit' facets, or shadows. Unfortunately, not every single facet or area of the gem can be lit at once. Cutters aim for as close to 100% as possible.

What you are trying to focus on, with these examples, is the intensity of color of the two stones. You must be able to see the oval has a much stronger/brighter blue than the Step Cut. The step cut's color is more muted/grey and so forth.

 

[minousbijoux]

Look mcm: you asked, we answered - but you can take our responses with a grain of salt! What is important is that YOU love the stone, and YOU think it was a good value. That's the best advice people can give, and the advice that people seldom want to hear. It sounds like it is different in hand compared to how it is photographed and that you are very happy with your stone. Isn't that all that matters?

 

[T L]

This is a stone in my opinion with strong saturation

That's the Rockefeller sapphire, and it's of Burmese origin I believe.

I also love slksapphire's stone, which sapphire expert Richard Hughes, helped her find, but not everyone can afford this caliber of stone. However, to my eye, it's absolutely gorgeous, and gives you some more ideas of high quality sapphire.



Some sapphires are also more greyish, and that's fine too. The important thing is to know what a fair price is for a stone based on the variables of hue, saturation, tone, clarity, cut, carat weight, treatment and sometimes location as well.

 

[GregS]

Excellent opinions were given. Enjoy your stone. It's as easy as that. And that stone ^ is incredible.

 

[LD]

Are YOU happy with the stone in hand?

You have to understand that on this forum you're "talking" to a ton of people who have seen quite a lot of sapphires and helped people in their searches. Here's what WE think is generally important BUT it might not be for you:-

1. Determine whether you're comfortable with treatments.

2. If you're not then you MUST get a stone sent to a lab for a report (preferably AGL for coloured gemstones). This is the ONLY way of knowing. We have a saying "trust but verify" for a reason.

3. Most people are looking for a sapphire the colour of those two linked above - however, some like lighter gems, some darker and some like to have an tone of grey in their blue (which reduces the price).

4. Cut is important to some, not others. Some will tolerate a window - others won't. It's personal preference.

5. Black in a sapphire is usually a "no-no" UNLESS you're somebody that likes dark gems. If you are, then you're lucky because you'll get a sapphire for much less than the lighter ones!

So, I'm going to be objective here and tell you what I see ...............

a. The vendors photo doesn't look like the photos you've posted. You can tell that your photos are pretty accurate by looking at the surrounds. We do find that some vendors will ramp up the colour/brightness of their gemstones and it's not unusual to be surprised at what turns up in the mail.

b. Your photos hint at a fairly large window and the dimensions are shallow. Typically shallow gemstones will have windows. If you look face on to your stone is there a lighter patch in the middle? If so, that's a window and is a cutting issue. That won't go away.

c. The colour I see in your photos is of a sapphire that's quite grey. If that's correct then it brings the price down (which is good for you) but if the colour is accurate then I feel that you've paid quite a high price. To compare, please have a look at Gemfix (I think somebody linked to them above).

d. Lastly you mentioned passing this down through family members? Unfortunately the vast majority of gemstones are not heirlooms. I wish they were but the sad fact is they're not. To be an heirloom you have to buy top quality and/or buy a rare stone and that means having lots of zeros on the buying price.

Forgive me if I've told you lots of what you already know. Do please send your sapphire to AGL but only if you love it and ONLY if you won't accept treatments. If you love your stone no matter what, then don't bother with AGL, just sit back and enjoy it! Good luck!

 

[mcmsinger]

Look mcm: you asked, we answered - but you can take our responses with a grain of salt! What is important is that YOU love the stone, and YOU think it was a good value. That's the best advice people can give, and the advice that people seldom want to hear. It sounds like it is different in hand compared to how it is photographed and that you are very happy with your stone. Isn't that all that matters?

I completely agree.

I honestly personally feel it is a fair value.

I looked at AJS Gems and found their prices to be higher for very comparable sapphires that were also heated on top of it, smaller in carat size and from the same origin too.

Take for example this stone which is 2.04 carat and it is heated-treated for a total of $4,600. Origin is Ceylon. I personally consider this stone to not be a good value. It's coloring is noticeably uneven and the clarity is not where it should be for close to $5K and the brilliance is not that astonishing for that price. I would pay no more than $1800-2000 for this stone. It's not rare due to the heat-treatment and even with the heating I personally feel the clarity, coloring, brilliance and beauty still needs improvement. The cut is great but that can never make up for a lacking of quality.

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-2.04-carats.html-1

Take another example from AJSGems

This is a unheated 2.16 carat stone for $3600 From Sri Lanka. But the saturation is so obviously uneven and poor in the sellers own picture which is usually the best shot taken to hide flaws. It is well-cut but the stone quality is not well for $3600 in my humble opinion and excellent cut cannot make up for a mediocre stone quality.

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/unheated-blue-sapphire-2.16-carats.html

Honestly not worth no more than $1800-2000 as well.

And for those two stones, I don't know if they are VVS1, VVS2 or VS. I personally think they are VVS2-VS... and in my humble opinion, clarity is definitely a part of the value of a sapphire stone. Not the only part however. I think great color is useless with horrible clarity or without great clarity. I think with great clarity you need great color and with great color you need great clarity for the stone to be complete.

I checked Zales as well and found the stones to be comparably much more expensive than mine even though they were smaller in carat size, lower in clarity and treated.

Did I at least do better than retail prices?

Anyway, I really appreciate the help and insight. Thank you very much.

 

[ChrisA222]

I just wanted to show you some pictures....of the same stone.

Realize I used some very quick, photo editing but I just wanted to show you what saturation is.

The first pic, is the oval sapphire, with the saturation turned down. The tone is the same (level of 'darkness)

The second pic, is the non-manipulated pic, showing strong saturation.

Hope that seeing this makes it easier to understand. Truly grasping the saturation of a gemstone was one of the most difficult concepts for me to understand at first, and develop my eye for it.

 

[mcmsinger]

I like the stone. But if it is not a good value than I would have rather just have returned it but can't since it is not out of the 14-day return period.

I wish someone on here would have looked at the dimensions and told me a shallow stone is not worth that much I paid. Speaking out now doesn't really help me.

By how much would you guys say it is overpriced according to the pictures? Be specific. Give numbers. "quite a high price" is subjective.

If the stone comes out as heated and treated, I can get my money back however. So maybe hope it comes out as that now? LOL

 

[mcmsinger]

I could also list on amazon for sale and try to get my money back in that way.

 

[carmen1]

I wish someone on here would have looked at the dimensions and told me a shallow stone is not worth that much I paid. Speaking out now doesn't really help me.

Unfortunately, the photos which showed the possible window and what appeared to be lower saturation were only posted 2 days ago and I never saw where you posted the dimensions. I don't think it would have been possible to have known that it was shallow or windowed based solely on the vendor's photo.

That said, I think that you paid a decent price though probably not a bargain price. However, you asked earlier whether you did better than you would have at retail stores like Zales and I am certain that you did! Most retail stores I've been to don't even know that unheated sapphires exist, so I am sure that you did much better than anything you could have purchased at the mall Please do send it to AGL for a $60 gem brief as soon as possible, though, to confirm that it is indeed unheated.

I'm sorry you are second guessing your purchase, I purchased a blue sapphire that I was on the fence about but once I had it set in a ring I realized how much I really do love it. It may not be the best cut or most saturated sapphire, but it makes me happy and I enjoy wearing it. As others have mentioned, you clearly like this sapphire and feel that it was fairly priced based on what you can see in your hand (which is more accurate than what we can see in your photos). At the end of the day that really is all that matters! I am sure your future wife will love it too, especially knowing how much research and thought you put into it

 

[T L]

I think great color is useless with horrible clarity or without great clarity. I think with great clarity you need great color and with great color you need great clarity for the stone to be complete.

I'm not going to comment on your stone since it seems you made up your mind about it, and I think you should enjoy it.

However, I respectfully disagree about clarity and color in all cases. I just wanted to point this out to newbies and/or people unfamiliar with sapphire inclusions that are reading this now. Some sapphires do have inclusions which give them a silky appearance, which is highly prized on some stones, such as this Kashmir sapphire below. It's slightly sleepy (not 100% transparent), but the silk in there gives it a surreal glow that is best experienced in person, and I do think it does enhance the color. Of course, any glaring or truly obvious huge inclusions, or terrible zoning, will affect the value and the color, but I do think that this "silk" in some sapphires is quite beautiful. Therefore, a sapphire doesn't need to be completely crystal clean and transparent all the time to be beautiful, or have beautiful color.

 

[LD]

Are you happy with the price you paid? If you are and you love your stone then don't look into it any further. I've found that if I truly love a stone, even if I've overpaid, the stone makes up for it!

If however you're having second thoughts then the only way to price the stone correctly is to know what treatments have been applied - that has a huge affect on price. If you've got 5 minutes, read the sticky at the top of this forum "new to gemstones ....." that explains how treatments affect pricing. It also helps you to understand what to look for when shopping for gemstones ie. shallow stones often (nearly always) result in windowing etc.

One other thing I would say is that regulars may not look at the board every day (as we do have lives outside Pricescope lol) so it may take a few days for all answers to come in. 2 days from posting your photos to getting various replies is actually probably fairly typical.

Hope that helps.

 

[chrono]

Since you like the stone and it cannot be returned, just enjoy it. Your priority is different from how the trade views it where you put more emphasis on clarity rather than colour. Your examples from AJS shows blue sapphires with colouring that are judged as having more desirability, hence the higher pricing. Debating pricing now is also moot point.

Many pictures and article written by Richard Hughes, a world reknowned sapphire specialist and gemmologist.
www.palagems.com/sapphire_connoisseurship.htm#sapphire_buying_guide

Parts quoted from the famous book and article:

Colour: The intensity of the blue colour is the primary factor in determining value. The ideal stone displays an intense rich blue without being dark or inky. Stones which are too dark and inky, or too light in colour, are less highly valued.

Clarity: Buyers should look for stones which are eye-clean (no inclusions visible to the unaided eye). In the case of some sapphires, extremely fine silk throughout the stone can actually enhance the value.

 

[deskjockey]

Are you happy with the price you paid? If you are and you love your stone then don't look into it any further. I've found that if I truly love a stone, even if I've overpaid, the stone makes up for it!

This! From looking around, I think I might have been able to get a slightly "better" stone for the money than we did for my e-ring. But I *LOVE* my sapphire. I love it when it's grey, I love it when it shifts colors, and the more I look at it the more fascinated I am with it. The world of colored stones seems ultimately to be subjective, and the most important thing is to be happy with what you get. There's a lot of different things that play into the price of a stone, and each of us probably has a slightly different ranking of those things. If you rank clarity higher than saturation, say, you'll pay more for a stone that someone else might pass on due to a hint of gray or off color.

You also mentioned wanting numbers, some exactness into "how much did I overpay?" but I don't think it's really possible to do that. People might be able to say what price point they'd have considered the stone at, but you're going to find examples all over the internet of very similar stones with wildly varying prices. It's the nature of capitalism when it comes to subjective/artistic stuff. And people who value clarity over cut or saturation over hue will pay more for the things they prefer. I know that's probably frustrating, but there's not a handbook with exact pricing of every possible variation of sapphire out there to refer to, to say "ok, stone is saturation level 4 rather than 5, so that means it's worth exactly $200 less per carat", at least, not that I know of. If there is, I totally want a copy.

 

[T L]

there's not a handbook with exact pricing of every possible variation of sapphire out there to refer to, to say "ok, stone is saturation level 4 rather than 5, so that means it's worth exactly $200 less per carat", at least, not that I know of. If there is, I totally want a copy.

This is more the case with white diamonds, but unfortunately, not with colored gems. There is wild variation on price in the marketplace, which is why there are consumer forums like this one, and why people educate themselves. The thing you never want to do is wildly overpay. I think the OP paid a fair price, but if he/she paid $20K for the same gem, that would be a different story.