Princess cut stone

[Rocksalt]

GF and I are in the market for a princess cut stone. Her demands, i mean expectatations, are as follows; 1 carat g/H color with excellent optical performance. We would like an eye clean stone at the least.

We have been shown this stone.

1.01 carat
VS2
D color
Table 68%
Depth 75.6%

Trying to attach the ASET and the clarity pictures.

Try again.

Opinions??

 

[Rocksalt]

Here is the ASET image.

 

[Rocksalt]

Finally... here is the ASET image

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/16/2010 1:21:29 PM
Author: Rocksalt
Finally... here is the ASET image

Hi Rocksalt and welcome!

The ASET image looks excellent, do you have the basic proportions of the diamond too please such as depth, table, lab report?

 

[Rocksalt]

Date: 3/16/2010 1:25:08 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/16/2010 1:21:29 PM
Author: Rocksalt
Finally... here is the ASET image

Hi Rocksalt and welcome!

The ASET image looks excellent, do you have the basic proportions of the diamond too please such as depth, table, lab report?

GIA report is attched

 

[Rocksalt]

Here is photograph of the stone itself.

 

[Stone-cold11]

Looks good.

 

[Rocksalt]

Stone-Cold,

do you have any concerns with the comment "very eye clean"? It is an GOG stone, so their rep is very good to where I think I have to trust them. Agree?

 

[Stone-cold11]

yap, VS2 should not be a problem, GOG also has a good return policy so if in the rare case that you/your gf is eagle-eyed and sees the inclusions, you can just return it.

 

[Lorelei]

do you have any concerns with the comment ''very eye clean''? It is an GOG stone, so their rep is very good to where I think I have to trust them. Agree?

The GOG rep will be honest with you as long as you have made your expectations clear concerning the '' eyecleanliness'' of the diamond, VS2 will generally be eyeclean but it never hurts to check.

 

[Firestone]

The GIA certificate image is too small to read. I prefer depths not to exceed 71%.

 

[Rocksalt]

Here is the information from the cert.

5.56mm x 5.45mm x 4.12 mm
1.01 carat
D color VS2 clarity (clouds)
No fluor
No culet
Girdle is thin to slightly thick
VG polish
G symmetry

Should i worry about the symmetry? The ASET looked like it had good visual performance.

Thanks

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 7:04:31 AM
Author: Rocksalt

Here is the information from the cert.

5.56mm x 5.45mm x 4.12 mm
1.01 carat
D color VS2 clarity (clouds)


No fluor
No culet
Girdle is thin to slightly thick
VG polish
G symmetry

Should i worry about the symmetry? The ASET looked like it had good visual performance.

Thanks

I would not be concerned with the symmetry grade due to the image, it looks good.

ETA - I just looked the stone up, the clarity grade is actually SI2 not VS2.....Does that make a difference to you?

 

[Rocksalt]

Thanks Lorelei... you are right it is SI2. They also were showing us a smaller VS2 stone, which we didn''t like as much. I was confused.

We are okay with SI2 as long as its eye-clean. Which they at GOG say it is. Their reputation here on PS says that their descriptions are reliable. Plus we have the return policy to use , if needed.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 10:27:11 AM
Author: Rocksalt
Thanks Lorelei... you are right it is SI2. They also were showing us a smaller VS2 stone, which we didn''t like as much. I was confused.

We are okay with SI2 as long as its eye-clean. Which they at GOG say it is. Their reputation here on PS says that their descriptions are reliable. Plus we have the return policy to use , if needed.

Ok just wanted to check! Thats fine then and Jon is very used to describing SI clarities to buyers so you will be in good hands!

 

[Firestone]

Cut is extremely important with Princess diamonds. The only way a princess diamond will come close to rivaling the sparkle of a round is with an excellent cut. Your initial post said that your gf wanted excellent optical performance and that requires an excellent cut. This stone does not have an excellent cut. I believe the symmetry is very important with a princess cut. I personally would want excellent symmetry and polish. The depth of the best cuts don''t exceed 71%. Plus why would you want to pay for so much weight in the pavilion? I have seen plenty of girdles with similar unevenness but it is preferable for the girdle to be more even.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

GOG is very good at picking diamonds for their optical performance. Is this one that is in their signature line with the lifetime policies attached? If so, then I would trust their workup of the diamond over as assessment of the numbers on their own. They have an excellent track record.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 12:35:18 PM
Author: Firestone
Cut is extremely important with Princess diamonds. The only way a princess diamond will come close to rivaling the sparkle of a round is with an excellent cut. Your initial post said that your gf wanted excellent optical performance and that requires an excellent cut. This stone does not have an excellent cut. I believe the symmetry is very important with a princess cut. I personally would want excellent symmetry and polish. The depth of the best cuts don't exceed 71%. Plus why would you want to pay for so much weight in the pavilion? I have seen plenty of girdles with similar unevenness but it is preferable for the girdle to be more even.

Actually Firestone, the girdle measurement of this diamond of thin to slightly thick is exactly within desirable range, it couldn't really be much better in fact.

Rocksalt, the diamond does have a very nice cut and could be an excellent choice, plus it is backed with a lifetime upgrade policy. Jon won't take stones back that don't have an excellent optics and he is a vastly experienced diamantaire.

 

[Firestone]

Lorelei, as I said, I have seen plenty of similar uneven girdles. And technically as long as the girdle is not very thin or very thick, it is within the acceptable range. However that does not change the fact that this particular girdle is rather uneven and a solid medium girdle would be preferable or a girdle with less of a range would be preferable. Just because uneven girdles are rather commonplace doesn''t mean that they are desirable. I was just trying to relay some knowledge about girdles which is commonly not considered.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 12:52:08 PM
Author: Firestone
Lorelei, as I said, I have seen plenty of similar uneven girdles. And technically as long as the girdle is not very thin or very thick, it is within the acceptable range. However that does not change the fact that this particular girdle is rather uneven and a solid medium girdle would be preferable or a girdle with less of a range would be preferable. Just because uneven girdles are rather commonplace doesn't mean that they are desirable. I was just trying to relay some knowledge about girdles which is commonly not considered.

I have to respectfully disagree with you there, a thin to slightly thick girdle is absolutely fine, not uneven and not of concern. This sort of advice can scare a purchaser off a diamond when there is no need. You might find this page from the Pricescope tutorial useful concerning girdle thickness which also applies to Princess.

Are you in the diamond trade? Just wondering when you say you have seen plenty of girdles?

 

[Rocksalt]

I certainly do enjoy a spirited debate, as I see one brewing here. Maybe i misrepresented GF desires, due to our naievity(sp?).

She wants a "sparkley" diamond. That will show clean when its on her finger. 1 carat size, princess cut.

Our lurking and research here and on the vendors websites told us to look for table % of 62-68% and depth of 70-75%. Hopefully there would be a spread between the %, (ie not high of table and low end of depth). Is that setiment accurate?

Firestone... as far a girdle goes, we were trying to stay away from the extremely dimensions.

This stone, at $4400ish is at the top end of the budget. And the ASET images looked really good and that opinon was seconded by some here too. I thought that with GOG''s reputation and the endorsement of the "Pro" here, i was on my way.

If any of you guys or gals find anything that maight fit her desires and my budget, please feel free to send some links.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Date: 3/17/2010 1:13:30 PM
Author: Rocksalt
I certainly do enjoy a spirited debate, as I see one brewing here. Maybe i misrepresented GF desires, due to our naievity(sp?).

She wants a ''sparkley'' diamond. That will show clean when its on her finger. 1 carat size, princess cut.

Our lurking and research here and on the vendors websites told us to look for table % of 62-68% and depth of 70-75%. Hopefully there would be a spread between the %, (ie not high of table and low end of depth). Is that setiment accurate?

Firestone... as far a girdle goes, we were trying to stay away from the extremely dimensions.

This stone, at $4400ish is at the top end of the budget. And the ASET images looked really good and that opinon was seconded by some here too. I thought that with GOG''s reputation and the endorsement of the ''Pro'' here, i was on my way.

If any of you guys or gals find anything that maight fit her desires and my budget, please feel free to send some links.

I wouldn not let one dissenter necessarily sway your decision. Lorelei and Stone cold are very good at helping their fellow consumers pick Princess cuts.

 

[Rocksalt]

Dreamer--- certainly not! But i am always willing to slow down and listen to the opinions of the others. Maybe Firestone knows of a better stone to look at.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 1:17:07 PM
Author: Rocksalt
Dreamer--- certainly not! But i am always willing to slow down and listen to the opinions of the others. Maybe Firestone knows of a better stone to look at.

Thats fine and to be encouraged, my concern is when advice is offered that isn't accurate concerning an aspect of a diamond. The girdle is not an issue, maybe Firestone would prefer a medium girdle for their diamond, but I can assure you that the girdle and cut on THIS diamond are fine.

Concerning the spread/ depth relationship in Princess, this article by Infinity's Paul Slegers explains,

http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/21/1/The-matter-of-depth-in-a-princess-cut.aspx

 

[Rocksalt]

Thanks for the assurance. I guess you could sense the apprehension?!?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 1:27:19 PM
Author: Rocksalt
Thanks for the assurance. I guess you could sense the apprehension?!?

Yes I could, I could tell you were concerned! There is no need to be, the girdle is fine and the cut is great and you are in the hands of a highly regarded and trusted vendor. You could improve on the symmetry if you want but there really wouldn't be any visual benefit from doing so. Asking questions as you have is a good thing in order to gain reassurance and confidence in your purchase and as above, you are in the hands of a top class vendor whose concern is that you are completely happy.

 

[Firestone]

Rocksalt, princess cut diamonds are generally less "sparkley" than round diamonds. Some princess cuts don''t have a whole lot of sparkle. The cut of a princess diamond determines its sparkle. Cut standards have only recently been determined for princess cuts. GIA doesn''t even rate the cut. Depth %s of 64% to 75% are considered ideal-premium cuts. 75% would be premium. Less than 71% would be ideal.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/17/2010 1:38:00 PM
Author: Firestone
Rocksalt, princess cut diamonds are generally less 'sparkley' than round diamonds. Some princess cuts don't have a whole lot of sparkle. The cut of a princess diamond determines its sparkle. Cut standards have only recently been determined for princess cuts. GIA doesn't even rate the cut. Depth %s of 64% to 75% are considered ideal-premium cuts. 75% would be premium. Less than 71% would be ideal.

And it doesn't matter what the depth is if the critical angles and the rest of the stone don't perform. May I ask where you are getting your information from please Firestone?

 

[Firestone]

Lorelei, I honestly don''t understand how you can say I gave inaccurate information. A more even girdle is more desirable than a girdle with wide ranges. And while very thin and very thick/thick girdles are obviously not desirable, that doesn''t make wide ranges in between desirable even if it is common. And a straight medium girdle is more desirable than a thick girdle. I honestly don''t understand why you are advocating that uneven girdles are desirable. An uneven girdle may not be a deal breaker when considering all other factors. But it certainly is a consideration when evaluating stones. If all other factors are the same, a stone with an even girdle within range is superior to a stone with an uneven girdle within range.

 

[Firestone]

Lorelei,LOL!!! That''s like saying it doesn''t matter if a stone has a D color or IF clarity if everything else is not right. We are only discussing one aspect. We all know there are other factors. A 71% depth is better than a 75% depth. And a 75% depth is better than a 80% depth. Just like a 65% or 68% table is better than a 70% table.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/princess-cut-diamond/

Even this link to pricescope shows that 75% is the extreme for a premium cut.

On a practical matter, we all know that larger depths have more light leakage and that larger depths mean that more caret weight is in the pavilion which is not where we want the weight.