shape
carat
color
clarity

Golden Beryl sold as Yellow Sapphire

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
Hi everyone, I''m new here. I''ve been lurking on this forum for quite some time, and I think this is a great place to learn and seek advice. I am having some problems about my e-ring.. I hope I can get some valuable advice here! Please help me out~

Last summer my then bf (fiance now) contacted Michael E. (after seeing high recommendations of him here) for an oval yellow sapphire as the center stone of my engagement ring. Michael said he had exactly what we need - he had a big oval yellow sapphire that needed to be re-cut to give more sparkle. He sent us some pictures and we liked it. So we paid the deposit and he went ahead to re-cut the stone. When we received the stone we were happy, we thought the cut was great and I was very pleased with the color. We paid $700 for the stone and Michael said it weighed 2.03ct.

We were going to get Michael E. to do the setting as well but in the end we couldn''t agree on the design so we went with Maytal Hoffman. Maytal did a fantastic job. We''re both absolutely & incredibly happy with her work.

After we received the completed ring, we went to get it appraised. After looking at the center stone for 2 mins, the appraiser immediately asked if we''re sure we purchased a sapphire. We told him yes, we''re sure. He looked at it for another 10 mins and told us that it is a golden beryl, but not yellow sapphire. We were shocked!!!! The appraiser tried to comfort us and told us that even though it is not a sapphire, it was well cut.

We immediately contacted Michael E. after the appraisal to find out why he sold us a golden beryl as a sapphire. Michael was certain that he did sell us a sapphire. His reasons were that he''s a GIA trained gemologist and had checked the stone when he bought it using a refractive index. He also said he would''ve known if it was a beryl when he re-cut the stone due to the polishing rate.

We were very confused by then and just didn''t know who to trust. So we went to a different appraiser and the appraisal was the same. The center stone is a golden beryl, and not sapphire. We emailed Michael again and asked for corrective actions. He asked us to send him the ring to check whether the center stone is the stone that he sold us. We''re hesitant to do so because we just got engaged and I''m afraid something will happen to the ring during transit. We said we''d drive it down to him but Michael said he doesn''t have time to meet up with anyone. He then asked us to take the center stone out and send it to him.

I''m not sure what to do. Here I have this beautiful ring hand crafted by Maytal. It''s stunning. On the other hand, I''m very disappointed that the center stone is not a sapphire because that''s what we asked and paid for. Both appraisers are GIA trained gemologists. I''m still in disbelief that Michael would commit such deception, but I''m also not doubting Maytal at all (I don''t believe she would change the center stone). To our eyes and from our observations, the center stone is the stone that Michael E. sold us.

Should I send the center stone back to Michael? He said after he checks the stone himself, if he indeed made a mistake and sold us a golden beryl instead of a sapphire, he would find us another sapphire and re-cut it into the same proportions. But I fear that he wont'' be able to find/re-cut a sapphire that would fit perfectly in the existing e-ring setting.

Color-stone experts: Is it very difficult to differentiate golden beryl from yellow sapphire? So much so that even a GIA trained gemologist can make a mistake?

You can see pictures of our ering on Maytal''s website www.maytalhannah.com, it''s ring28 on page 3.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Hmmm...well maybe it's me, but I've been hanging out here awhile and have never heard of Michael E? There are a few Michael B's...but I don't know Michael E. from Joe Shmoe.

Secondly, IMO there is no way that someone who knows their stuff could sell a yellow beryl as a yellow sapphire. They are quite different in MOH's hardness, density, etc. So IMO either he really wasn't paying attention, he sent it out to get cut and they screwed you, or he screwed you.

Sorry to put it in such blunt terms. But it really is a gorgeous ring!!!!!! And if you can somehow get past the deception...it really it stunning. The one thing is that beryl isn't nearly as durable as sapphire, so you'll need to be careful wearing it daily long term.

ETA: ok, I looked up Michael E and he does seem to have a good reputation around here. I wonder if one of his employees picked it or something and he doesn't want to fess up to their mistake? I don't like that they aren't taking any responsibility for it though AND is unwilling to meet with you at all. Weird to me.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
Thanks neatfreak. I did try to get pass it but I don''t think I can. We set out to purchase a sapphire but in turn what we got was a beryl. I''m not diminishing the beauty of beryl stones, but it is just not what we asked and paid for!

And we agree with you, Michael not agreeing to meet with us, we thought it was quite irresponsible too. We just wanted to protect our ring!

He recut the stone personally himself, I don''t think he has any helpers.. and because he has a good reputation and he seems to know his stuff, I have no idea why he is so certain the stone is sapphire.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Date: 2/23/2008 9:30:44 AM
Author: qtx2
Thanks neatfreak. I did try to get pass it but I don''t think I can. We set out to purchase a sapphire but in turn what we got was a beryl. I''m not diminishing the beauty of beryl stones, but it is just not what we asked and paid for!


And we agree with you, Michael not agreeing to meet with us, we thought it was quite irresponsible too. We just wanted to protect our ring!


He recut the stone personally himself, I don''t think he has any helpers.. and because he has a good reputation and he seems to know his stuff, I have no idea why he is so certain the stone is sapphire.

That''s so bizarre...now a question about the appraisers. Were they independent or did they sell stones too? And also, did you go IN telling them you think you got a beryl, or did you say nothing and they came to the conclusion themselves?
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
wow.....
that is quite a predicament. it seems that you love the ring as is (and it would be crazy to disassemble a custom ring) would you consider monetary compensation between the price differrences of the stones? i would not send the stone back to michael since he seems to be inflexible to your needs. perhaps you and he can agree on an independant appraiser for the final word?
what a bummer situation. i hope you can get something worked out.
 

Fly Girl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
7,312
That is a beautiful ring!!

I don''t understand why Michael E. can''t find the time to meet with you and check out that stone. His reputation is about to be trashed on a very public forum. I can understand why you don''t want to dissemble a beautiful custom ring to send the center stone back to a man that you don''t trust. He needs to earn your trust back, and if it takes more effort, so be it.

I second the idea of finding an independent appraiser to negotiate.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
neatfreak: I believe both appraisers were independent. One owns a gem lab and we met him when he was doing appraisals at a jewelry store. The other appraiser we found on the directory and we went up to his office to do the appraisal. The first appraisal, we told him it was a yellow sapphire ring. After looking at it for 2 mins, he told us it was a golden beryl and asked us again if we are sure we purchased a sapphire. We said yes we''re sure we purchased a sapphire and he examined it more closely for a bit longer and still concluded that it is a golden beryl.

The second appraisal, we told him that we thought we purchased a sapphire but a appraiser appraised it as a golden beryl so we wanted a second opinion. He examined the ring for a while and also concluded it is a golden beryl.

Perhaps we should have said nothing from the start? I don''t know how difficult it is to differentiate a golden beryl from a sapphire. The first appraiser said it is hard to differentiate the two stones unless you are trained and have the tools.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
Date: 2/23/2008 9:35:31 AM
Author: belle
wow.....

that is quite a predicament. it seems that you love the ring as is (and it would be crazy to disassemble a custom ring) would you consider monetary compensation between the price differrences of the stones? i would not send the stone back to michael since he seems to be inflexible to your needs. perhaps you and he can agree on an independant appraiser for the final word?

what a bummer situation. i hope you can get something worked out.


Thanks belle. I do love the ring so so much.. and it pains me to have to disassemble it. I would consider a monetary compensation even though I have not asked Michael for such compensation. I''ve only asked what he purposes his corrective actions are. But nonetheless, he asks to look at the stone first to check if it is indeed the stone he sold us. I agree with him that he does deserve to look at the stone first, but right now I just don''t trust him enough to send him the entire ring, and he won''t agree to meet with us.

I think an independent appraiser is a good idea. I''ll ask him and see what he thinks.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
Date: 2/23/2008 10:40:29 AM
Author: Fly Girl
That is a beautiful ring!!


I don''t understand why Michael E. can''t find the time to meet with you and check out that stone. His reputation is about to be trashed on a very public forum. I can understand why you don''t want to dissemble a beautiful custom ring to send the center stone back to a man that you don''t trust. He needs to earn your trust back, and if it takes more effort, so be it.


I second the idea of finding an independent appraiser to negotiate.

Thanks Fly Girl. Believe me, I have no intent of wrecking Michael''s reputation here. I just want to get some advice. Prior to this finding, our correspondences with Michael have always been pleasant. He appeared knowledgeable and experienced and was helpful. After this finding though, I''m disappointed in the way he handled the situation.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
I am so sorry this is happening to you. It is best to NOT tell an appraiser anything about it and let them come to a conclusion...but if they were independent and thus NOT trying to sell you anything else in it''s place, then it''s unlikely they would have told you it was beryl unless it really was.

As for an independent appraiser, send it to Richard Sherwood in Florida. He is VERY well known around here and knows his stuff as far as colored stones go. He will be able to tell you very easily and quickly what the stone is and what it''s value is. Then you can talk to Michael about corrective actions. I think it''s really irresponsible of Michael not to be willing to meet with you, but there will be NO WAY he can say it''s a sapphire if Richard says it''s not.

I also highly recommend Richard Wise who while not an independent appraiser, just appraised my stone and I thought he was very fair. It also helps that he''s a gem expert.

As for mailing, you can send it registered mail via the USPS. It is super safe, not too expensive, and insurable!
 

nicholerh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
48
We almost went with Michael E to make our Ering but ended up going with someone local whom we could see in person. Michael E told us up front he isn''t game for having people over - that''s just his policy. He mentioned this after I said we were close enough to drop by. With that info we opted for someone local and public. Just a personal preference.

I would not mention anything to the appraiser to get an unbiased opinion. Good luck
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
looking at a stone is not appraising a stone. if all they did was look at it, i''d take there word with a grain of salt. the richard sherwood recommendation is a good one.

movie zombie
 

Missrocks

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
518
First let me say I am so sorry about your situation. I can't imagine just getting engaged and then being ask to part with my ring.
Beryl and sapphire have several different properties, but most of all a distinctively different RI, as Michael E mentioned. The similarities stop at color. You didn't sound sure whether either appraiser did an RI test- but I must say, I would be apalled if they charged you for an appraisal without doing one. That is the one key element to indentification and it is awfully difficult to mix up the RI's. If these appraisers did not do the test, I would dismiss every word they said and go get an independant appraisal. There is really no way to "sight I.D." a sapphire from beryl based on inclusions and color. An no they are not difficult to tell apart- given you have proper gemological tools and skills.

And yes, I do agree, it is a bit upsetting Michael E. can't make time to meet with you. If the independant appraisal comes back to be beryl, I would contact him again, and bring up the subject of meeting once more. It might help, having some credible documention to aid your serious concern.
Good luck with everything.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
Date: 2/23/2008 11:46:33 AM
Author: neatfreak
I am so sorry this is happening to you. It is best to NOT tell an appraiser anything about it and let them come to a conclusion...but if they were independent and thus NOT trying to sell you anything else in it''s place, then it''s unlikely they would have told you it was beryl unless it really was.


As for an independent appraiser, send it to Richard Sherwood in Florida. He is VERY well known around here and knows his stuff as far as colored stones go. He will be able to tell you very easily and quickly what the stone is and what it''s value is. Then you can talk to Michael about corrective actions. I think it''s really irresponsible of Michael not to be willing to meet with you, but there will be NO WAY he can say it''s a sapphire if Richard says it''s not.


I also highly recommend Richard Wise who while not an independent appraiser, just appraised my stone and I thought he was very fair. It also helps that he''s a gem expert.


As for mailing, you can send it registered mail via the USPS. It is super safe, not too expensive, and insurable!

Thank you for the recommendation. I''ll talk to Michael and see if we can work out something along this line.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
nicholerh: Thank you. I feel better learning that Michael E. prefers not to meet his clients in general, and not that he didn''t want to meet with us.

movie zombie: I''m sorry I didn''t elaborate on the appraisal process. I''m not familiar with the terms of the tools but I''ll try my best to describe the process. Both appraisers used a microscope to examine the ring first, they took time looking at the ring under the microscope. Then they put the ring on a machine that checks the refractive index. Afterwards, they looked at the ring using the loupe. After that they looked at the ring under the microscope again.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
Date: 2/23/2008 1:03:44 PM
Author: Missrocks
First let me say I am so sorry about your situation. I can''t imagine just getting engaged and then being ask to part with my ring.

Beryl and sapphire have several different properties, but most of all a distinctively different RI, as Michael E mentioned. The similarities stop at color. You didn''t sound sure whether either appraiser did an RI test- but I must say, I would be apalled if they charged you for an appraisal without doing one. That is the one key element to indentification and it is awfully difficult to mix up the RI''s. If these appraisers did not do the test, I would dismiss every word they said and go get an independant appraisal. There is really no way to ''sight I.D.'' a sapphire from beryl based on inclusions and color. An no they are not difficult to tell apart- given you have proper gemological tools and skills.


And yes, I do agree, it is a bit upsetting Michael E. can''t make time to meet with you. If the independant appraisal comes back to be beryl, I would contact him again, and bring up the subject of meeting once more. It might help, having some credible documention to aid your serious concern.

Good luck with everything.

Thank you missrocks. Sorry I didn''t clarify on the appraisal process before, but yes both appraisers did a refractive index test using a machine. And both apprasiers, after doing the RI test, were certain that the stone was a beryl. We sent both appraisal reports to Michael, like you say, to support our concern. But I think Michael''s concern is that the center stone of our ring is not the one that he had sold/shipped to us. And I understand his concern. However we of course did not change the stone ourselves and we don''t believe that Maytal changed the stone.
 

Missrocks

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
518
Date: 2/23/2008 1:35:41 PM
Author: qtx2


Thank you missrocks. Sorry I didn''t clarify on the appraisal process before, but yes both appraisers did a refractive index test using a machine. And both apprasiers, after doing the RI test, were certain that the stone was a beryl. We sent both appraisal reports to Michael, like you say, to support our concern. But I think Michael''s concern is that the center stone of our ring is not the one that he had sold/shipped to us. And I understand his concern. However we of course did not change the stone ourselves and we don''t believe that Maytal changed the stone.
Thanks for clearing that up! I was wondering about that..

Then in that case, I concur with the idea of sending it out USPS. They would get my vote as the most reliable and safe mailing method.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
hmmm wow
That doesn''t sound like something Michael E. would do.
Iv bought from him in the past and had a good experience.
He should agree too meet up with you about this!
 

swimmer

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
2,516
Oh Qtx2,
What a difficult situation, and with your precious ering no less. Sending hugs!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,342
Ugh, I am so sorry! My only concern is that $700 sounded a little low for a 2 ct. sapphire. It hopefully was an unintentional mistake that Michael E thought the stone was a sapphire. I would want it replaced with a sapphire since sapphire is so much more durable. Get the ring insured and then send it to him.
 

Independent Gal

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
5,471
Hmmm, yeah, I was also thinking "Wow, only $700 for a custom cut 2 ct sapphire with great colour?" That would make me suspicious too.

Sorry you''re in this situation.
7.gif
I hope you find a way to get it resolved satisfactorily!
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
so, a real true blue appraisal was conducted. makes it rather conclusive then.

problem: michael e didn''t set the stone and can argue he wasn''t responsible after it left him. while you may trust maytal, michael e may not.

i hope this gets worked out to your satisfaction. i''m so sorry you''re going through this, especially since its your e-ring.

movie zombie
 

coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
6,281
Date: 2/23/2008 9:30:44 AM
Author: qtx2
Thanks neatfreak. I did try to get pass it but I don't think I can. We set out to purchase a sapphire but in turn what we got was a beryl. I'm not diminishing the beauty of beryl stones, but it is just not what we asked and paid for!


And we agree with you, Michael not agreeing to meet with us, we thought it was quite irresponsible too. We just wanted to protect our ring!


He recut the stone personally himself, I don't think he has any helpers.. and because he has a good reputation and he seems to know his stuff, I have no idea why he is so certain the stone is sapphire.

Ugh, so sorry you're going through this.
8.gif


If he cut the stone himself, I don't see how this mistake could be made. Wouldn't a stone cutter feel the difference between a beryl and a sapphire?

This with the 700.00 price tag seems really suspicious.

Gosh, I really hope you get the stone you want. It's an absolutely beautiful ring.
 

Cind11

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
1,959
Wow. poor you! My fear after working with Maytal, is that she custom makes her settings to fit the exact stone you send her. If you have to get a new stone, it''ll have to have the exact same dimensions. I guess that would be doable, but what a hassle! Hope yuu get it all resolved!
 

Michael_E

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
1,290
qtx2,
This is sort of an interesting way to approach this, but what the heck, I''m up for anything. There are several problems here which are apparent, not even to you, qtx2. The first of which is that I am not physically able to meet with you, due to a series of ongoing family problems. I am able to work via the internet only and generally avoid the phone since it keeps me from having a record of exactly what my clients want. (Anyone wanting further details on the problems which have caused this circumstance can certainly write me...please expect something akin to a bad novel in response).

The other problems with this deal involve getting the stone back to me. I obviously can''t do anything without the stone and I can''t have the stone in the setting, (and neither can whoever did the appraisal), since the prongs on that ring make it impossible to do an accurate Refractive Index test on the stone. How did your appraisers do that test anyway ? In any case, please do send the stone back to me,(if it''s in the setting that''s fine, but I''ll need to remove and replace it), and if the stone turns out to be a golden beryl, not a sapphire, then you have the 3 options which I mentioned in my e-mail to you.

If you''re concerned about me being able to cut a replacement stone to the exact dimensions of first one, (assuming that the stone is not a sapphire), please don''t worry about it. I''ve been at this for a long time and can cut to about 1/10mm and fit anything. I hope that this helps a bit qtx2, please let me know what you want to do.

Oh, a word of advice to others who are buyers of loose gems, please do get an appraisal on the stones that you buy before you set them and as soon after you buy them as possible. This makes it possible for an appraiser/gemologist to accurately test and inspect the stone, before you have it set. Getting this done shortly after your purchase also makes it much easier to send it back if it doesn''t suit you and avoids this problem of fitting a new stone to a custom setting.

Have a great day all !
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
Date: 2/25/2008 3:55:38 PM
Author: Michael_E
qtx2,
This is sort of an interesting way to approach this, but what the heck, I''m up for anything. There are several problems here which are apparent, not even to you, qtx2. The first of which is that I am not physically able to meet with you, due to a series of ongoing family problems. I am able to work via the internet only and generally avoid the phone since it keeps me from having a record of exactly what my clients want. (Anyone wanting further details on the problems which have caused this circumstance can certainly write me...please expect something akin to a bad novel in response).

The other problems with this deal involve getting the stone back to me. I obviously can''t do anything without the stone and I can''t have the stone in the setting, (and neither can whoever did the appraisal), since the prongs on that ring make it impossible to do an accurate Refractive Index test on the stone. How did your appraisers do that test anyway ? In any case, please do send the stone back to me,(if it''s in the setting that''s fine, but I''ll need to remove and replace it), and if the stone turns out to be a golden beryl, not a sapphire, then you have the 3 options which I mentioned in my e-mail to you.

If you''re concerned about me being able to cut a replacement stone to the exact dimensions of first one, (assuming that the stone is not a sapphire), please don''t worry about it. I''ve been at this for a long time and can cut to about 1/10mm and fit anything. I hope that this helps a bit qtx2, please let me know what you want to do.

Oh, a word of advice to others who are buyers of loose gems, please do get an appraisal on the stones that you buy before you set them and as soon after you buy them as possible. This makes it possible for an appraiser/gemologist to accurately test and inspect the stone, before you have it set. Getting this done shortly after your purchase also makes it much easier to send it back if it doesn''t suit you and avoids this problem of fitting a new stone to a custom setting.

Have a great day all !
and any good quality shop should insist on doing an appraisal before they begin a setting, imo. they are signing a receipt that says they received from you/me "x" stone and should be concerned that in fact they really did receive an "x" stone. the sales receipt isn''t enough.

thanks for reminding me that my designer got a major lecture for not having done this. he merely accepted my sales receipt [ok, it was from richard wise but still].....major no no for insurance and professional purposes at this rather high end shop.

movie zombie
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
double post.
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
Date: 2/25/2008 3:55:38 PM
Author: Michael_E
Oh, a word of advice to others who are buyers of loose gems, please do get an appraisal on the stones that you buy before you set them and as soon after you buy them as possible. This makes it possible for an appraiser/gemologist to accurately test and inspect the stone, before you have it set. Getting this done shortly after your purchase also makes it much easier to send it back if it doesn''t suit you and avoids this problem of fitting a new stone to a custom setting.
I have to disagree with you in this case. And take exception with the implication and tone that the OP has somehow been negligent with this. If this was a $7K or $70K stone and a premium associated with origin and no treatment, then I''d agree. But normally you expect your seller to properly represent the difference between sapphire and beryl. For a $700 stone I think it was perfectly reasonable to trust a trusted seller then commission the metalwork and get a final appraisal only when complete. Also I disagree with MZ suggesting that the shop could have done this - the metal guys are good at metalwork not necessarily gemology and I doubt that LM or MM for instance even have the ability to do a RI check in their workshops.

qtx2 at this point I''d have it unmounted yourself and do what Steve Lembeck suggested on another thread, send to AGL in NYC unmounted for a "brief" report which he says costs (an amazingly low) $25. Then take it from there with Michael.
 

qtx2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
10
missrocks, strmrdr, & swimmer: Thank you for your support, I hope we get this resolved soon.

diamondseeker & independent gal: It was a great price and we thought we had a great deal. Michael said he bought the stone many years ago which could explain the lower price he asked for on the stone (if it indeed is a sapphire).

movie zombie: Thank you. I agree that Michael may not trust what happened to the stone after he sold it to us. Hopefully we can resolve this soon.

coatimundi: Thank you. Yeah, with Michael being an experienced gem cutter and cutting the stone himself, I would imagine that he should feel the difference between a beryl and a sapphire. And he did say that this was another reason why he is adamant that it is a sapphire he sold us and not a beryl as 2 appraisals indicated.

Cind11: Thank you. We''ve been in contact with Maytal and she mentioned the new stone (if we''re going to get a new stone in the existing setting) would have to be pretty close in the dimensions to the old stone and especially for the height. If we need to get a new stone, I hope we can get one close enough to not affect the setting.

whatmeworry: Thank you for the two links, it''s very interesting. I''ll definitely give it try when I get a penlight.

elmo: Thank you for the AGL suggestion. I''m definitely taking this into consideration.
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top