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Best way to detect Ruby for an Ameteur

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Nicrez

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Recently I was gifted a "ruby" ring by my grandmother. I am almost 99% positive it's NOT ruby, but more likely red spinel, or something similar. Besides testing it's specific gravity, or it's hardness, how can I determine ruby or not? I would LOVE to purchase a testing machine of some sort (because I'll use it professionally one day) but which test would most likely be the most positive, and the least costly...? Anyone?
 

Michael_E

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Nicrez,
Refractive index is probably the easiest and most prominent indicator of whether your stone is ruby or spinel. A good hint could come from a dichroscope since spinel is singly refractive and ruby is doubly refractive and often shows two different colors along different crystal axes. The tough call is whether the stone in question is natural or synthetic since both ruby and spinel have been synthesized for over 100 years. To make that cal you will need a good microscope, lighting and some experience. It can be a tough call even for the pros.
 

CaptAubrey

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the easiest thing to do is go read richard's thread on visual optics. this method is completely free but requires a little practice. it would be best if you have a known ruby for comparison, and, if possible, a red garnet, as it's a common ruby substitute. rubies have a distinctive appearance with this method that is tough to confuse with other red stones once you know what to look for.




i agree about the utility of a dichroscope, which is fairly cheap (~$40 depending on where you get it), but i'm curious about why you're so sure it's not a ruby.
 

Nicrez

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I am assuming it's NOT ruby for several reasons




1) My great great grandmother was never wealthy, but her brother was a jewelery who made most of this stuff eons ago. I doubt that the stone would be real ruby.




2) the size of the stone is quite large, and would be tremedously pricey for it's great color and good clarity had it been Ruby.




3) it shows signs of wearing away at the facets edges. Granted the ring is well over three decades old at best, but I don't think that's normal for a ruby, being the SECOND hardest material. I am now failry certain it could be Garnet, as it's only a 7.25 on the Mohs scale. That would make the stone wear away like it has.




I have found a Gem calcite Dichroscope for $89.95 at Kassoy Tools & Supply. Just a little shop in NYC I stepped into. Any good ideas where I can get a Dichroscope for less? Any of them sell one piece to frighteningly neurotic gem lovers who want to be Gemologists?
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Nicrez

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here's a photo of the ring. not sure if you can see the wearing away of the facet edges.

Ruby ring Garnet.jpg
 

CaptAubrey

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doesn't look much like a garnet, if the color in that photo is accurate. it could be a spinel, which is softer than corundum, but even corundum can show wear if it's being worn every day for decades. it might also be a synthetic ruby if you're convinced it's not a natural one. however, in that case, dichroscope won't tell you squat--you need an expert with a microscope.




with a stone that large and light in tone, i still recommend the visual optics route. give it a try before you plunk down 90 bucks on a dichroscope.
 

Nicrez

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My absolutely inadequate autodidactic training has me confused as to how to truly tell. I used his method, only by putting the gem up to my cornea, and then facing it toward an open window. Oddly enough, I don't own a flashlight or penlight (so maybe that's a safer investment for now?)




With the facets, I can't tell if it's singly refractive or doubly (sp?)....Also, i have a copy of the spectrum for Ruby and such, but without a spectrometer I have no idea how to get it. I think Richard is a veteran of such gems that he can recognize a Ruby, a Garnet, Tourmaline, or Spinel just from the following:




1. The stone did not have the characteristic ruby spectrum "signature". -not sure what the signature would be...?
2. The stone was singly refractive.- Do I use the light source coming in from the culet or the table?
3. The stone had a significantly higher index than ruby. -Index? What index? /idealbb/images/smilies/confused.gif/idealbb/images/smilies/cry.gif
4. The stone exhibited the strong "signature" absorption pattern of garnet. - Pyrope Garnet or Alamandite? How did he get the spectra?




I don't think it's a synthetic for two reasons. Basically it would be too difficult and possibly more expensive to find a synthetic at that time, and in the hills of Ecuador (where my great great Uncle lived) I am also worried that I can't seem to find inclusions at 10X, or I am unable to distinguish them from the wear and tear of the facets. At one moment I think I found one, and the next, I wonder if it's just dirty. i have tried soap, water and a tooth brush, but it still doesn't feel clean enough...? Make sense?




I also noted that the facets are not quite polished well. I wouldn't expect this from a synthetic stone, but more from a lapidary who cuts natural stones, usually something lower cost, like garnets or spinel. Also, trying to determine whether this stone has slight shades of blueish violet, or perhaps it could be pleochloric...or am I most likely just hoping it's a Ruby? /idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif




I don't care either way if it isn't, but it sure it fun to try and figure it out! After this, I have a "ruby" necklace i was also gifted recently....again, don't care for value's sake, but learning is most of the fun (after wearing them of course!)




The Ruby necklace actually has purplish-red stones, cut in a cabuchon tear drop shape. Highly included and opaque, if that makes sense. But first ring's first.../idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif
 

Nicrez

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Here's a better shot of the stone for color, in daylight.




You'll notice craftsman ship is not up to par to today's standards, but it's age and work is what leads me to believe it's most likely Pyrope/Garnet at a 7-7.5 hardness, with fair/good toughness...which most likely wouldn't be so scratched had it been corrundum.

100-0050_IMG.JPG
 

strmrdr

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my guess is synthetic ruby.
10x loup clean leads away from it being natural ruby.
there is a slight double image on the 2 oclock position where the setting is visible under the stone but seen in double.

If I was buying it at a pawnshop/flee market Id offer used sythetic ruby prices for it :} I might get lucky but I dought it.
 

CaptAubrey

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i got to tell you, that looks a lot like a synthetic to me. a) it's too clean to be natural (flame fusion synthetics are usually flawless), and b) the color is very close to what you see in synthetics.




the poor craftmanship is actually a good sign of synthetic, since the material is so cheap it doesn't pay to spend a lot of time on the faceting.




synthetic rubies have been around since the late 19th century, and they were dirt-cheap to make even then. so don't discount the possibility just because of the age and source.
 

CaptAubrey

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----------------
On 7/1/2004 3:10:47 PM Nicrez wrote:







1. The stone did not have the characteristic ruby spectrum 'signature'. -not sure what the signature would be...?
2. The stone was singly refractive.- Do I use the light source coming in from the culet or the table?
3. The stone had a significantly higher index than ruby. -Index? What index? /idealbb/images/smilies/confused.gif/idealbb/images/smilies/cry.gif
4. The stone exhibited the strong 'signature' absorption pattern of garnet. - Pyrope Garnet or Alamandite? How did he get the spectra?

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ok, to address the visual optics stuff: i may be overestimating the ease of picking this up because it does help to have a basic idea of what's going on. first, understand that there's nothing mystical about a spectroscope: all it does is break a beam of light into its component colors (dispersion). this is the same thing that happens with a prism (and, indeed, one type of spectrscope uses an internal prism), and also the same thing that happens when you view a gemstone from certain angles. "fire" in a diamond is nothing but dispersion.



vo uses this effect. in a darkened room with a single pinpoint light source, hold the largest facet (typically the table) as close to your eye as you can without touching it. if you rotate it slightly, you should see an array of tiny spectra. in gems with a low refractive index, you may see rings of spectra; with high ri gems, because the light is bent so much, you will see only one arc of a single ring.



in doubly refractive gems like ruby, each spectra will be doubled--you will see two in a line, not parallel but one after the other, sometimes overlapping slightly in which case they will look somewhat fuzzy.



again, the spectrum you're seeing is pretty much the same thing you would see in a spectroscope. ruby has strong absorptions in the center of the spectrum (this creates the red color), so the spectra you see will appear more like red and blue dots. garnet does not show this effect. its spectra is closer to a typical "rainbow" appearance and looks nothing like the ruby spectra, which is why richard was able to id that gem so easily.



it helps enormously to have a collection of different gems to practice with. once you start noticing the differences, it's quite easy to pick up.
 

Nicrez

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Rats! Now all I need is a Ruby, a Spinel and a Garnet? Anyone want to donate any of these for a worthy cause?
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Seriously, I went around the diamond district looking for a darned dichroscope! Not one of the tools places sold any. They all directed me to GIA's store on Fifth Ave, which has mysteriously dissappeared and gone on-line only!
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This delays my results.




I should have just gone to buy a little flashlight or penlight...RATS!




I was wondering about the stone being synthetic, since it's almost completely devoid of inclusions (which I know are the fingerprints of a natural stone), but I could just be suffering from "bad eye" where I can't quite discern the inclusions, as I am not an inclusion sensitive person, even in clear, colorless diamonds...
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Ok, upon further inspection, I may have found some slightly small black inclusions, but again, I am terrible at this, considering the facets edges are mostly worn away, so it makes distinguishing the inclusions candidates form the wearing away...Frankly, I think I've gone cross-eyed form staring so hard!
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Some characteristics of some sytheticas are as follows, but I have yet to spot ANY of these, so that's why I lean towards Spinel or Garnet:




  • Flame Fusion: gas bubbles, curved striae, curved color banding
  • Flux: Flux in fingerprint pattern, wispy, veil-like pattern, coarse globules, fine droplets, hexagonal or triangular metallic platelets, straight or angular growth

(I checked each facet, and made sure that the bad polishing was actually in different directions and not just one, to better rule out this method of synthesis)

  • Czochralski: curved striae, gas bubbles
  • Floating Zone: swirled appearance, gas bubbles

So, now I will go out and get a pen light and try Richard's method. Somehow I feel I will just not get it again, seeing as how badly my untrained eye is missing all these things. But maybe I should just go out and get some rubies for comparison...?

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Thanks again guys!!!! Hey Richard, I'd LOVE some input if you're reading....
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CaptAubrey

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----------------
On 7/1/2004 6:11:00 PM Nicrez wrote:







Some characteristics of some sytheticas are as follows, but I have yet to spot ANY of these, so that's why I lean towards Spinel or Garnet:


  • Flame Fusion: gas bubbles, curved striae, curved color banding
----------------

are you looking for these with a microscrope or a loupe? it's a lot tougher to see them with a loupe. also, 95% of the synthetic rubies on the market are flame fusion, because it's the cheapest method, so if it's a synthetic it's almost certainly one of those.



You won't see gas bubbles with a loupe; they're small enough that they'll look like pinpoints at 10x. You might be able to see the curved striae, though. Get yourself a bright flashlight and cover the light with a kleenex. Then look into the stone with the ring on the flashlight, looking directly down into the light. This creates a diffused direct lighting source that can make curved striae easier to see. What you're looking for is a faint, subtle texture much like the lines on an lp record. at 10x it will be tough to pick out, but you might be able to spot it.

 

Nicrez

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Definately going to try that tomorrow...Wow, Cap't, ...I guess you really earned your title with all that gem skill you have hidden!
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I know I am being obsessive about this, but hoping that I can train my own eye for such things, consider, well, hey, this is the kind of work I hope to make a living off of one day!
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Guess my eye needs some microscope training....
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But at some point, when I feel I have exhausted my research, I will consult a pro, sort of like getting the answers in the back of the book, to see how I did on my self-test! Thanks again!!!!
 

Richard M.

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Nicrez,

Visual Optics is a valuable technique but it requires lots of practice and experience. If you want to learn it I recommend the books from Hanneman Gemological or direct from Hodgkinson in Scotland. A window won't do: you need a single focused light source, like taping a narrow slit on the end of a penlite. Some people use a single candle flame in a darkened room. You view light coming through the culet with the table held close to your eye. You have to learn to look upward slightly without changing the stone's position and have a clear idea of visible R.I. differences. You have to be able to distinguish between single and double spectral images -- easy once you know how. So is calculus...both take a while to learn.

If you go the Hanneman route you can probably find a functional dichroscope for much less than $90, but that's a fair price for a calcite type. H. used to sell a polaroid type attached to a 110 volt plug-in night light for $15 plus shipping. It works as both polariscope and dichroscope -- with practice! Call him at 360 598 4862 and ask for a catalog. Some of his stuff's a little weird but it works. If I recall correctly his tanzanite filter also doubles as a dichroscope. Tell him what you're up to and he may make suggestions.

Given its age, size, history and lack of visible inclusions your stone is very probably a Verneuil flame-fusion synthetic. They've been around since the 1890s. Of course there's no way to really tell without seeing/testing it. Sometimes curved growth striations are visible at 10X magification but you have to inspect the stone from all directions. That's proof positive of synthetic origin, as are rounded bubbles, but sometimes both are difficult to distinguish. Natural corundums have straight growth lines that change direction angularly at 60 degrees and usually have angular rutile inclusions. Have fun and good luck!
 

GLudlow

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Any reason you haven't just brought it to a jewler and asked? I mean, you can get a full-blown appraisal for less than $90, and I imagine if it's synthetic, they'd be able to tell you
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Nicrez

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Yes, my main reason is that I would like to be the person who charges the $90 each time and not the one who PAYS it. As soon as the availability is there, I will take courses for Gemology at GIA here in NYC, so before I spend my $90+ on that apprasier, I want to make sure I have some sort of skill, so I can make a career out of this!
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Eventually, when I feel I have done everything I could to distinguish it, I will, but the need to know is not as great as the will to learn HOW to know...make sense?
 

purduephotog

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What about UV?

If you take any ruby and shove it under a UV light source (such as a $0.99 LED light from any number of sellers on ebay) a ruby will glow and glow and glow. A garnet won't. That's a pretty easy way to tell them apart.....
 

CaptAubrey

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not all rubies have uv fluorescence. so it's helpful but not definitive. a strong reaction would eliminate pyrope garnet but the absence of it wouldn't be proof of garnet.
 

purduephotog

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Really?

I thought that all ruby's *had* to have fluorescence, based upon the band-gap for the chromimium. I was under the impression that, if it didn't fluoresce, it wasn't a ruby (it was simply aluminum oxide).

That takes all the fun out of my hunting now, I guess
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But I'm still looking for my overdoped rubies, hahha. At least until the olympic committee makes doping rubies illegal....
 

glitterata

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Just popping in to say that's a very pretty ring, and your ancestress had excellent taste. (Your grandmother? Your grandmother's grandmother?)

Did someone in your family make that ring?
 

CaptAubrey

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----------------
On 7/6/2004 2:21:10 PM purduephotog wrote:





Really?

I thought that all ruby's *had* to have fluorescence, based upon the band-gap for the chromimium. I was under the impression that, if it didn't fluoresce, it wasn't a ruby (it was simply aluminum oxide).

----------------
well, there are varying degrees of fluorescence. some thai rubies can be so dark that their fluorescence is very weak, weak enough to be missed outside the laboratory. i've seen a few of them like that, and these are, unfortunately, the stones most likely to be mistaken for garnets because of their dark tones.
 

valeria101

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Wouldn't one wish that all ruby looks at least that nice
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Looks like a small treasure or a syntetic to me - just about any immitation would have got worn out by now.

Am I wrong to say that intuition is still the best ID method here? No idea about a fault free way keeping stone in setting and outside a lab.


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And... what does color have to do with fluorescence by all means? One can get a good lot of brownish - pink African corundum with week saturation and no fluorescence. So dark color or light color go with and without fluorescence as well. I think the common opinion is that the Fe content both prevents fluorescence and causes the overly-dark color of the dark, garnet-like ruby. Does any study differ ?
 

mogok

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Hello,
I'm back from Burma... And i see that there are were a lot of post during my absence!
About this fluorescence story, Ana you are right: If the presence of chromium is the source of the red fluorescence of rubies and pink sapphires, if the stone also present some iron then the Iron will "cut" the fluorescence... It means that the presence of Iron will create some new energy levels inside the stone that will make the fluorescence move to the infrared (so not visible for the human eye) range of the spectrum.

For the stone well I think that if its a ruby you should be able to see it from the naked eye: look through the stone from different direction in front of a light source. If the stone looks red orange and then form an other direction red purple, then you have a ruby. This is the information a dichroscope will give you. In Burma nobody have dichroscope but looking through the stone all the Mogok 5 years old kids will make the difference between a ruby and a spinel or a garnet. No need to buy a $90 instrument for this.

Now telling you what is a stone just looking at a photo is not easy...

Try to give us some more data.

Whatever a good advise in gemology is the one I use to repeat to my students which are building theories: "Check the stone with your eyes not with your ears..."

All the best,
 

Richard Sherwood

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Hi Nicrez. Pretty ring.

My gut reaction is in agreement with Storm, Capt Aubrey & Richard M and anyone else who thought it's a flame fusion synthetic ruby. It certainly has that "look", and it wouldn't be surprising to find abrasions on the crown facets after all these many years.

The visual optics thing is fun, and if this is indeed a synthetic ruby, it's a great stone to practice on. Dark room, with a penlight. Turn the penlight in such a way as to be looking at the smallest source of light possible.

Hold the table facet up to your eye until it's almost touching your eyelashes. Ruby has a fairly high refractive index, so the spectral images will be on the outer edge of the stone's image.

The ruby spectrum will show a red/blue pattern, with everything else absorbed. That's the "signature spectrum" of ruby I was talking about. Ruby's the only stone that show's this. Garnet, spinel, tourmaline etc will all show more colors of the spectrum.

You might have to raise or lower your eye a little bit in relation to the stone in order to catch the spectral images towards the outside edge. Or side to side, or tilt the stone a little. Once you catch them, you'll know them right away, and be able to see them in other stones. Practice with every thing you can get your hands on.

The lighting is key. You want to position it more so a diagonal of light is entering the stone instead the full "ball" of light as from the round end of a flashlight staring dead at you. Turn it to a 45 degree or so angle so the light comes in more like a "slit" than a "ball". Or, as Richard M. mentioned, you could tape the end until you have a "slit" of light appearing.

I like Mogok's instruction on examining the stone for the red/orange - red/purple difference in color.

Purdue's UV florescence idea is helpful in the process of elimination as well. A flame fusion synthetic will glow like a red sun. Very few rubies (except Burmese) can match that intensity of fluorescence, and an experienced observer use this single characteristic to help in the process of elimination of many stones. He could rule out all the stones which don't fluoresce (such as garnet), all the stones which can fluoresce weakly (such as Thai ruby), all stones which fluoresce with modifying hues (such as orange- Sri Lankan and Kenyan ruby), and all the stones which flouresce another color (such as rubellite).

Experience is the key, but it's fun to practice. I'd put that baby under a black light and see if you have to dive for cover. If it does, and is loupe clean along with the Visual Optics red/blue spectral signature, then chances are 99.9% it's a flame fusion synthetic.

In the end, I'd still take it to a gemologist... Most guys wouldn't charge that much. For a simple written gem ID with a photo, I charge $25, for example.

Oh, another tip based on Richard M's suggestion of looking for curved striae. If you wrap the end of a flashlight with several sheets of toilet paper to diffuse the light, and then inspect the ruby (with a loupe) from various different directions while sitting on top of the flashlight, you might spot the curved striae he's talking about. They look like curved "ghost lines" going across a major portion of the stone.
 

Richard Sherwood

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-----------
I have found a Gem calcite Dichroscope for $89.95 at Kassoy Tools &
Supply. Just a little shop in NYC I stepped into. Any good ideas
where I can get a Dichroscope for less?
-----------

Jeff Wildman @ www.gemproducts.com in Oregon has the calcite dichroscope listed for $80. He's a nice fellow, maybe he'll give you a discount. He would be a very good source for future equipment purchases as well. He sells refurbished scopes and stuff, as well as state-of-the-art new stuff.
 

mogok

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Well Richard that's a good post!
One little thing about the fluorescence of rubies: Vietnamese, Nepalese, Hunza valley in Pakistan and Afghan rubies (all find in marbles as the Mogok and Mong Shu ones) show very strong fluorescence as they are poor in iron. As these stones looks very much as Burmese rubies and as Burmese ruby sells better as a name than other rubies they often get a brand new burmese passport between their mine and the consumer market...
All the best.
 

Cave Keeper

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----------------
On 6/30/2004 9:43:18 PM Nicrez wrote:

here's a photo of the ring. not sure if you can see the wearing away of the facet edges.

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It looks like a red garnet to me. Another decade or so, such sizes won't be easily available anymore.

Anyway, even if it's synthetic, at $15 per carat nowadays, an 8 carat synthetic + ring + cutting and ring mounting charges would cost at least $100. Some one mentioned he got some synthetics from eBay for only $5 each. I wonder how large they were.
 

Richard Sherwood

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Thanks for the additional fluorescence info, Mogok.

What's your experience with the fluorescence of Madagascar rubies, and their "look" in general?
 

katbadness

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Mogok, CaptAubrey, Richard M, Richard Sherwood, and others that I've failed to mention, thanks for all your input. This is one of the best colored gem threads yet!
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And thanks for Nicrez for starting this thread.

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On 7/15/2004 9:36:42 PM mogok wrote:

One little thing about the fluorescence of rubies: Vietnamese, Nepalese, Hunza valley in Pakistan and Afghan rubies (all find in marbles as the Mogok and Mong Shu ones) show very strong fluorescence as they are poor in iron. As these stones looks very much as Burmese rubies and as Burmese ruby sells better as a name than other rubies they often get a brand new burmese passport between their mine and the consumer market...

----------------


This is very interesting and somewhat disconcerting to me.
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So for labs that give certificate of origin, is there a specific identifier that they rely on that will differentiate between a true Burma ruby vs. others?
 
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