What should I have paid for something like this?

[raylswor]

Just bought my first diamond ring ever and hoping to get an idea if I overpaid or not.

Weight .83
Clarity: SI2
Colour: E
Cut: Very Good

With platinum band.

Dimensions are 6.06x 6.03x3.69 mm

Any idea of what I should have paid for this in U.S or candian dollars?
(round brilliant cut)

Thanks!

 

[valeria101]

I have no idea on what basis this was called a "very good cut": it is up to you to place this stone on an intuitive cut quality scale from lump to some ideal, say H&A standard. Usually, the claim of cut quality should be based on something... but, whatever the cut may be, this stone should have been up to 2.5 for the price to be attractive in itelf, something less than 3k including a slight premium for cut or the location of the seller and up to 4k for some fancy cut. A well cut with no further demonstration of it's quality beyong GIA measures and it's apearence should have stopped nicely below 3k (2.8?) to be atractive. All numbers in USD. How does this sound?

 

[raylswor]

thanks for the reply.

The 'very good cut' referred to the 'gem scan' cut rating on the certificate of the diamond

I ended up paying 6k canadian for it all.
i am not sure what the platinum band should have cost..any thoughts?

From what you said it sounds like i paid a bit on the high side..no?

Is there any way to take the dimensions 6.06x 6.03x3.69 mm to calculate the other details about the cut?

Thanks again for the feedback

 

[Giangi]

All we can tell you is the depth, which is 61.0%.

 

[raylswor]

Is that good or appropriate for that size of diamond?


Thanks!

 

[aljdewey]

For the love of God........I will never, never understand why it doesn't dawn on people to ask these questions PRE-purchase. What is the point of asking after the fact?




What good does that do? Why don't people ask questions before they buy? Why is that such a tough notion?




(shaking my head in disbelief)

 

[phoenixgirl]

Did the diamond come with a certificate from the GIA or AGS (or another lab)? If not, are the color and clarity in writing on your receipt? Are there any diamonds on the platinum band? Is it well-known designer? Do you know the thickness of the setting in mm? This will help narrow it down. For general purposes:

0.83 E SI2 stones (all with EGL, AGS, or GIA certed stones -- expect to pay less for a stone with no cert. -- you should get an appraisal to verify this information, and keep in mind that the "retail replacement value" will be much more than you paid even if you didn't get a very good deal) are going for between $1945 and $3899US through pricescope vendors (remember, stones on the internet generally go for less than stones sold in the average retail store). Platinum solitaire settings are going for between $325 and $950US on Blue Nile. So on the internet you could probably get a comparable ring for between $2250 and $4850 US -- a big range. Get that appraisal and let us know all the details, and we can be more specific. Just remember that internet vendors who don't have to pay retail rent and are subject to instant price comparisons can afford to sell their items at a lower price. Just because you paid a bit more doesn't mean you necessarily got a bad deal. I think the biggest factor here is whether or not your stone came with a certificate from a reputable company.

 

[Mara]

Yep AL...I hear ya...I don't understand it either. It's not like people go and drop thousands of dollars DAILY on purchases like this. Why do the research after? Positive purchase affirmation?

That said, there's not much from the original information that was given to make a good assessment. What exactly is a VERY GOOD cut anyway? What is table and depth of this stone? Was it certified? If not how do you know it's really E SI2? What are the crown and pavilion angles? Did you get a Sarin?




I am too lazy to look up Canadian vs US dollars but a pretty good cut stone (maybe AGS0 but not H&A) .83 E SI2 would probably be around $3000 or so US dollars. Because I'm too lazy to look up the conversion, I don't know if you overpaid. Platinum solitaire setting is worth all of around $300 US dollars.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Easy on the newbies girls!

Some of us are just Rank Amateurs!

 

[Mara]

Rank...I prefer to think of it as Darwinism of diamonds.

Diamond natural selection. Hehehee.....




Honestly, I don't think it's too much to question why people think of important details like this AFTER the fact. Do you just close your eyes and point at any house on a block in order to determine which to purchase? Here's my $500k check. Do I get to blindly choose yet? Goodie.

 

[aljdewey]

R/A.....I really don't mean to be harsh, but I just don't get it.




If the information wasn't important enough to get pre-purchase, why is it SO important after purchase? If a buyer didn't like the price, he wouldn't have paid it, right?




How is it possible that people have NO trouble finding this site after purchase, but can't seem to find it pre-purchase? I would NEVER, NEVER lay out thousands of dollars for anything without knowing exactly what I was getting and its value, and I simply cannot understand how anyone can be comfortable with that.




But if they are comfortable with that, then why not stay comfortable with the decision later? Why do they only care AFTER they've parted with the cash?

 

[phoenixgirl]

I agree with Rank Amateur. Maybe it's because I'm a teacher, so I get asked a lot of stupid questions. Therefore, I only scoff at the blatantly or willfully stupid ones. But usually the other students will do it for me, so I don't have to.

The whole mall jewelry store establishment has been preying on the ignorance of consumers for years, which is no real accomplishment since the majority of Americans spend more time following the lives of celebrities than they do learning about things that really matter. Think about it: people believe in religions they've never investigated objectively or read the entire holy book for, people vote for candidates about whom they know very little, etc. (Anecdote: I travelled to Spain in 2001 with a UVA grad who had voted for Bush. A Spaniard asked us if Bush was liberal or conservative, and my friend did not know the answer, although she had voted for him!!! I basically had to explain the whole political system and its ideologies to her! And she graduated from UVA!!!) Most people do not care enough to really find out all the facts before commiting to something unless it hurts their wallets. So let's not be too hard on someone who honestly wonders how he did.

The only posts that bother me are the ones where the person just will not accept that he will not be able to resell his ring for MORE than he paid for it! I'll tell you nicely once that you have a better chance of being killed by a falling sky-diver whose shoot wouldn't open than you would of finding someone who would like to pay a premium just for having you own the ring for a while, but if you still persist in your idiocy, it's time for some ridicule. An honest question about how much comparable stones go for doesn't bother me.

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 12/18/2003 7:36:40 PM phoenixgirl wrote:











Most people do not care enough to really find out all the facts before commiting to something unless it hurts their wallets.

----------------

This is the entire point of questioning why people don't do more research first....it COULD very well be hurting their wallet in terms of being a bad deal. Maybe I am super anal but it's my good hard earned money that I suffered for. I would never just throw it at the nearest jeweler without doing some good ole hard research first.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I agree that it isn't smart, but I see my occasional role here to be to offer helpful advice or information. I wouldn't criticize someone who was just doing what most people do in all areas of their lives . . . accepting things without questioning. I don't think it's such a sin that the newbie should be scared off from our forum.

I think it's a valid topic for our forum, but I wouldn't have brought it up right in the middle of raylswor's post. My students do very stupid things, like not turning in an essay which counts for a test grade, thus receiving a zero instead of the 60 or 70 I would have given them for a crap essay (69 and below is an F), or like cutting my class when I am one of the teachers who consistently checks for this and turns them in. But I would never make a public service announcement about these things right when the situation arose. That would embarrass the student who would probably be less inclined to change the behavior than if I had brought it up at a later or separate time.

The prices of some goods are usually negotiable; the prices of others aren't. Maybe he did shop around, maybe he didn't, we don't know. All he asked for was a price range, not criticism.

 

[Mara]

See this is why I never would have made a great teacher. Or anyone in the public service type industry. I don't have the patience. Accepting without questioning to me is ludicrous. Trust yet verify. A lifelong credo.




I really do wonder honestly...what makes people do the things they do. What's the harm in asking? If someone is asking my opinion, then they can take the good with the bad. End of story.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/18/2003 7:54:01 PM phoenixgirl wrote:





I agree that it isn't smart, but I see my occasional role here to be to offer helpful advice or information. I wouldn't criticize someone who was just doing what most people do in all areas of their lives . . . accepting things without questioning. I don't think it's such a sin that the newbie should be scared off from our forum.

I think it's a valid topic for our forum, but I wouldn't have brought it up right in the middle of raylswor's post. My students do very stupid things, like not turning in an essay which counts for a test grade, thus receiving a zero instead of the 60 or 70 I would have given them for a crap essay (69 and below is an F), or like cutting my class when I am one of the teachers who consistently checks for this and turns them in. But I would never make a public service announcement about these things right when the situation arose. That would embarrass the student who would probably be less inclined to change the behavior than if I had brought it up at a later or separate time.

The prices of some goods are usually negotiable; the prices of others aren't. Maybe he did shop around, maybe he didn't, we don't know. All he asked for was a price range, not criticism.
----------------

First off.....who's being critical? I made an observation that I cannot understand why this happens REPEATEDLY....week after week here. And further, that if it does, why does the information become so important AFTER purchase when it clearly wasn't important before the purchase?

Second.....I didn't ask the question to be a public ridicule of this guy. Do you realize that nearly everyone here starts by saying "wow, I've been lurking and reading". Well, perhaps reading this observation will spare someone else. I am not calling this guy an idiot, I'm asking why does it matter NOW?

I'm asking because I'm trying to understand. My role here is to help, too, but I'm not here to help mold these people. I'm not their teacher.

But yes, I do find it somewhat exasperating, and if that makes me rotten, then so be it. I'm rotten. I've been on here a year now, and in that year, I'd lay odds that this has happened 30-40 times. I'm sorry, but no matter how one tries to slice it, I cannot understand who in their right mind would make any purchase of this magnitude without knowing what represents value.

Maybe I'm among the minority who cares about getting value for my dollar, but I wouldn't just hand over thousands of dollars for a car without knowing what it had. I wouldn't hand over hundreds of thousands of dollars for a house without ever getting a home inspection until after the sale. In fact, I wouldn't buy ANYTHING more than $100 or so without finding out what represents value----and that includes a diamond.

I'm sorry if this feels like a lesson at Raylswor's expense, but it has to be said at some point, and there's never going to be a perfect time.

For all of you considering large purchases (diamond, house, cars).....please, PLEASE exercise a bit of common sense and find out about the purchase BEFORE buying.

As for the appropriateness of when the question was raised, there is no better time to raise it then when a present example manifests itself, and I don't really see how your chastisement in the middle of the thread is any better/different than our questions in the middle of the thread.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Boy this is getting silly. I'm not going to argue about criticizing criticism, blah blah blah.

It is easy to think that most people are as smart, motivated, etc. as you are (generalizations removed because, although complimentary, they offended some generalization-generating posters on this thread). It's easy to think that the average person is like you and your friends, but s/he is not. The average person accepts most things at face value (i.e. the price the jeweler quotes). If smart people accept things blindly, heaven help the majority of us!

I would rather that people learn about politics or religion or science than diamonds, and since people only scratch the surface on the former, if they even bother to find out about the latter, why not come here and ask people who have taken the time, for whatever reason, to do so? It didn't occur to them to ask before. It's too late. Why berate them about it? Let's figure out if anything can be done. I've had someone passive aggressively criticize me before by complaining about "people in general" right in front of me, and it's no fun. It's not the crime of the century, so bring it up with some tact -- to be constructive, not destructive. The anonymity of the internet does not mean that the norms of human interaction should be thrown out the window.

 

[raylswor]

holly cow...just came back to check if there was any useful feedback about my posting...

Let me give a little background here. The jeweller was a family friend who my brother in law had bought my sister's engagement ring from, a ring she still brags about 2 years after they were married and is extremly happy with...

Having better things to do with my busy life than spend countless hours doing research on rings (although I did enough research to talk sensibly about them), I had enough faith in the jeweller to guide me a little. I.e we spent a lot of time looking at diamonds under the microscope.

I did shop around and found this was atleast as good as any other offer I could find.

In any case, the ring was certified by gem scan, who is a premier certifier in canada I believe. The certification only provides the following info:
Weight .83
Clarity: SI2
Colour: E
Cut: Very Good

Dimensions are 6.06x 6.03x3.69 mm

The reason I asked the question on this forum after I bought the ring was:
1) not to see if i could sell it for more than I bought it for
2) not because I plan to cry myself to sleep if I had overpaid

I just asked a simple question for some piece of mind which i now don't have since by the sounds of your responses it seems as if i may have overpaid a little even with the currency exchange.

however...seeing as I can afford it and I know she is going to love the ring...i won't spend too much time worrying about it

after buying a nice house, suv, and new snowboard in the last 3 months...what's another 6 grand....

thanks to those that atleast attempted to offer some useful insight

 

[aljdewey]

Phoenix, this isn't a commentary about what someone knows or doesn't know about DIAMONDS. You're missing the point.




If you don't have a lot of knowledge on ANY given subject, fine, ask questions. Look, I don't know a damn thing about computers. But you can bet your behind that I would acknowledge that, and that I wouldn't spend TWO RED CENTS on one without getting input or help from someone who does.....*before* I blow $4k on a computer.




This isn't about what knowledge someone does or doesn't have. It's about how one can make a purchase without finding out key information *first*.

 

[Mara]

Cry me a river.




By the way, I didn't go to an above average anything....and I paid for my own college all the way through. But if I hadn't...would that mean that I should be naturally smart because I hung out with above average people? Please!




Bottom line is that it's not about where you grew up or who you grew up with. Your dollar is YOUR DOLLAR. Hard earned. Use it wisely. If you only have $5 as opposed to $10 like the 'above average' people, shouldn't your $5 be stretched to go as far as possible? It's the $10 that would naturally be the wasters.




Religion, politics, diamonds, nothing in common. Everyone has access to the internet now, even in public libraries. I would take my $5 to that public library, and be sure that I was spending it wisely on whatever I am going to buy, whatever station in life I come from.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/18/2003 8:31:52 PM raylswor wrote:




Having better things to do with my busy life than spend countless hours doing research on rings (although I did enough research to talk sensibly about them), I had enough faith in the jeweller to guide me a little. The reason I asked the question on this forum after I bought the ring was:
1) not to see if i could sell it for more than I bought it for
2) not because I plan to cry myself to sleep if I had overpaid

I just asked a simple question for some piece of mind
----------------

That's exactly my point......I have NO qualms with people who don't want to "waste their time up front doing countless research", and no qualms with those who decide to have faith in their jeweler......providing you can retain that "faith" post-purchase.

If one has better things to do than gather information for a smart purchase, then why wouldn't he also have better things to do than worry about money already spent? If he had faith in someone else to tell him it was a good deal pre-purchase, why not go back to that same person after purchase.

People don't question things after the fact unless they think they may have made an error in judgment. My only point was "why not apply that cautiousness beforehand". Not a criticism of you, Ray....a general question for the myriad of folks lately who've come here under the same conditions.

 

[aljdewey]

Peace of mind comes from knowing that what you bought has value.....and how much that value is worth against what you paid.




It doesn't matter how much you know or don't know about something before you start, but it certainly matters how much you know before you write the check. Maybe that's saying it more "politically correct".

 

[Mara]

Ray..congrats on the new diamond. I'm sure it's quite lovely.




I'm sure you can understand how it becomes confusing when one comes and asks if they overpaid AFTER the fact....then later notes that they don't really care if they overpaid, but that they are just really happy with the stone.




Why ask then?

It's kind of like a double edged sword. Why torture yourself?

Ahhh I should lay off the Xmas chocolate...I think I am twitching.

 

[aljdewey]

Also, Ray, don't think I didn't offer help because I didn't want to. I didn't comment on how you did because there isn't enough information given to remotely determine if you got the deal of the century or if you got taken.




It's like saying "I just bought a black car with four doors for $30K. how did I do?" If it's a Mercedes, you did damn well. If it's a Chevette, you did terrible. The information you provided didn't give enough info to give you meaningful feedback.




If you can get that, perhaps we can give you a better idea.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Ray, are you in Toronto (or the vicinity?)

Firstly, the setting. Is the setting 950 or 900 platinum? It may be stamped on the inside if it is. The reason I'm asking is because while out shopping tonight, I saw some settings at a local jeweler's that were apparently 500 platinum - very light, not really worth the platinum, and not at all worth the price tag.

Secondly, the diamond. $6000 Canadian seems a tad overpriced, compared to P'scope vendors selling EGL stones of similar colour/clarity/carat weight. But the missing link is the cut information - the depth and table percentages, the crown and pavilion angles (likely percentages, rounded off, if it's an EGL cert) girdle information, etc. Without that missing piece of the pie, it's tough to give you an accurate ballpark as to what you could have/should have/would have paid elsewhere.

I appreciate the fact that this jeweler is a family friend. There exists somewhere an adage about doing business with friends, but I'm too tired to remember it at present.

Anyway, you might have done well, you might not have done well, but I have a feeling that if it really mattered to you, you would have done the homework ahead of time. So enjoy the ring and be happy with your purchase.

 

[raylswor]

1.
I'm sure you can understand how it becomes confusing when one comes and asks if they overpaid AFTER the fact....then later notes that they don't really care if they overpaid, but that they are just really happy with the stone.
---
I only made that comment..because lets face it..ya gotta stick up for yourself somehow...and well..because its the truth.

2. A simple "need more data" and leave it at that would have been sufficient for the purposes of this discussion I beleive.

3. You have all been a very inviting bunch and the fact that you didn't take this opportunity to jump down a 25 yr old newbies throat was much appreciated.... *cough*

4. If anybody needs advice on buying a computer..let me know as that's where i made all my money

 

[raylswor]

thanks canadiangirl..thats the most useful information posted here by far.. i will go back to the jeweller and ask for the other information then punch it in price scope..

cheers eh!

 

[grapegravity]

hello,

this may help u a bit, my bf paid $7500(CDN)0r $5800 US, incl tax for my e-ring:

Canadian diamond 128 facets laser inscribed
0.82ct, H, VS2, Good Cut
5.96x5.90x3.71

I think it's worth the money since at least 100 ppl complimented on my ring at work. My theory is "If u like it, just get it, no matter the price is high or low".

^_^

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/18/2003 9:09:10 PM raylswor wrote:





1.
I'm sure you can understand how it becomes confusing when one comes and asks if they overpaid AFTER the fact....then later notes that they don't really care if they overpaid, but that they are just really happy with the stone.
---
I only made that comment..because lets face it..ya gotta stick up for yourself somehow...and well..because its the truth.

2. A simple 'need more data' and leave it at that would have been sufficient for the purposes of this discussion I beleive.

3. You have all been a very inviting bunch and the fact that you didn't take this opportunity to jump down a 25 yr old newbies throat was much appreciated.... *cough*

4. If anybody needs advice on buying a computer..let me know as that's where i made all my money

----------------

I'm sorry if my question made you feel that you had to stick up for yourself. Just as you're asking questions to try to understand your purchase, I'm asking so I can try to understand why people care after the purchase but not pre-purchase. I'm not being fresh.....I don't get it, and hoping that someone can shed some light on it.

My comments aren't directed at you personally.....there have been at least eight people in the last two weeks who've come here the exact same way. To not ask why is to miss an opportunity for folks to consider the ramifications of buying without enough knowledge.

If you felt our comments were less than inviting, please accept my apologies. At the end of the day, I'm not the one who has to worry about the value of your purchase, so it's really no sweat to me. I was trying to understand why so many people research after the fact.....that's all.

The whole point of forums like this is exchange of ideas and that sometimes means opposing viewpoints. It's not a format that suits those who are easily offended, and it's a tough format to make the sincerity and intent of one's words come across. My comments weren't meant critically at all, and it's a shame that a few of you interpreted them that way.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I'm glad you're happy with the ring! And from what we can tell, it certainly appears to be in the reasonable though not "super great deal" range. Putting in hours of comparison shopping and research may not have been worth whatever $ you could have saved, if any.

I remember in college when my microeconomics professor explained to us that if Tim bought a native wood carving on Spring Break for $50 and was happy with it, and then found out that Kathy bought the same carving for $30, he shouldn't feel that he got a bad deal. He paid what it was worth to him, and the vendor certainly had the right to reduce the price if not enough people were biting when it was $50 for him/her to make enough profit. The vendor can maximize his/her profit by selling 2 at $50 and 10 at $30 instead of sitting around with more wood carvings than his/her store can hold. So value should not be determined by the lowest amount you could have possibly paid, but by what you were willing to pay for said item.

Oh gosh, here I am lecturing again. I just wanted to say, if you are happy, great! Nothing indicates that you were swindled or taken to the cleaners, so celebrate your engagement! And I apologize for contributing to and inviting further inanities. I could go on and on about the anonymity of the internet and the personal tendencies of people likely to spend time on a special interest forum such as this, but I'll stop while I'm ahead.