To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ carat

[baroque]

Hi all.

I'm having trouble balancing the size of the stone I "want" and the compromises. In order to get the cut I want, it seems like J color would get me there. Or...I reduce my size wish, and go with a higher color and a smaller stone...thoughts?

I emailed with the store today on one today and she said it's a very "hi" J, and that she believes I will be very pleasantly surprised. That's probably a good sign...She took some nice photos, they look nice and bright, but can you tell for sure from photos.
Thanks to all the help here...I have no concerns about the cut or the quality of the stone. I don't want to give too much info...for fear of losing a good one!

It will be set in either a yellow gold, with platinum prongs, or two tone ring (my wedding band is yellow gold, with small princess cut stones, channel set).

What do you think?

 

[creasey8]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I would reduce the size and go up in color, but I am very color sensitive and prefer a whiter brighter stone. The picture looks very good for a J stone. I think its really a personal opinion. Ask yourself how you feel about the color? if you are comfortable that is all that matters. Best of luck!

 

[pfunk]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I have a J colored stone (just over 2 carats) on the way right now and will reports back with thoughts when it comes in. I'm in the same camp as you, but I don't think it will bother me as I am not too color sensitive (she is even less sensitive).

 

[arkieb1]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I think you need to go into some bricks and mortar stores (not suggesting you buy from them) and try on J coloured stones and H and I coloured ones as well. Colour is subjective, you will get a large number of different answers from different members on here - but only YOU know which one is going to be the one you can or can't live with.

 

[apacherose]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

The diamond in the photos you posted is very appealing to me! I'd order and give her a go, assuming there is a good return policy. Beautiful!

I should add Arkeibs suggestion is surely the most practical and sensible. I just really thought the stone in the photos was pretty.

 

[Hospatogi]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Does the store have a good return policy? Maybe you could purchase it and keep it for a few days to see how you feel. Maybe take it to a few places where you can see it in different light settings. It's a big purchase so you shouldn't settle?

 

[artdecolover71]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I would totally rock a well cut J! If you can see it in person, that's the best option. Looks beautiful.

 

[msop04]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I agree that tolerance to color is a personal thing... that said, I went up almost 0.5 ct and got a J instead of an I color and never looked back! The diamond looks lovely -- try it out (along with some I's...) and see what you think.

 

[Rena7]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I would do it, but then I have an AVC k.

 

[baroque]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I think you need to go into some bricks and mortar stores (not suggesting you buy from them) and try on J coloured stones and H and I coloured ones as well. Colour is subjective, you will get a large number of different answers from different members on here - but only YOU know which one is going to be the one you can or can't live with.

I agree with you...and actually I did see a J stone about 2 carats at a store here, I don't think it was particularly well cut though...however, we took it outside and I didn't find it objectionable, but didn't have it next to any lighter stones for comparison.

I guess I feel like color is the most subjective things, as a "J" to one grader can be so much different than a "J" to another.
I emailed with a vendor about two stones, an "I" and an "H" that were similar in size and she emailed me back that these two stones were nearly identical in color, so is the I more H or is the H more I? Honestly, I'm probably a hard case for buying online, but I don't see another option due to the fact that every stone the "jeweler" here in town brings in is...how do I say this nicely?...subpar...and now that I know the difference, there's no going back!

They do have a return policy, I just worry that it would be such a hassle.

 

[MarionC]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Also, if you go to a website like James Allen where they have many videos you will notice that all the stones in a particular color grade can vary in color, and as may have been mentioned, quality cut can mask color. I have a K diamond that looks colorless.

 

[baroque]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

The diamond in the photos you posted is very appealing to me! I'd order and give her a go, assuming there is a good return policy. Beautiful!

I should add Arkeibs suggestion is surely the most practical and sensible. I just really thought the stone in the photos was pretty.

thanks apacherose..the more I look at the photos, the more emotionally attached I become to it...

Does the store have a good return policy? Maybe you could purchase it and keep it for a few days to see how you feel. Maybe take it to a few places where you can see it in different light settings. It's a big purchase so you shouldn't settle?

and Hospatogi, I agree...to settle just seems wrong. Who knew with my given (and I think-very generous) upgrade budget of $23K I would have to compromise at all? Not me...I had no idea what I was getting myself into! Especially considering what my previous (now lost in NY) stone was...not great in terms of the GIA report, but I thought it was fine, LOL. We only got $12K from the ins, and if I wanted a 1.5 again, I could probably do OK with that...but he said I could go bigger! But anywho, this is much harder than I thought it was going to be, or I am just overthinking it all!

 

[junebug17]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Personally, I would be fine with a GIA J, my stone is an old cut EGL J and I'm ok with the color But obviously people have different color tolerances, it might turn out to have too much color for you, I don't know. Nobody but you can know the answer to that. It looks really nice in the pics! I know returning is a pain in the neck, but I think you should see the diamond in person, it's really the only way you'll know for sure. I hear you on compromising. I have found that even with what I think is a very generous budget, it's never *quite* enough to get exactly what I want!

 

[baroque]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I hear you on compromising. I have found that even with what I think is a very generous budget, it's never *quite* enough to get exactly what I want!

Yeah...what's up with that? Shouldn't we be able to get exactly what we want? it's $23K dollars for heaven's sake! LOL! If I lowered my standards...well, that has never been something I'm comfortable with. More likely to up the budget! But...actually, he originally verbally threw out $20K as an OK budget...and incrementally it's been upped! hehe.

 

[momhappy]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Based on those images (which may or may not be an accurate representation of color), I wouldn't purchase it. I'd go down a bit in size to get better color.

 

[baroque]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Based on those images (which may or may not be an accurate representation of color), I wouldn't purchase it. I'd go down a bit in size to get better color.

You think the pics show too much tint?

 

[nala]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Hi. I just realized that you also posted the thread on size. Your threads are really timely for me, having just gone through both of these issues!!!
I used to own a 2.20 K with a very good cut, which had a big spread, but not a lot of fire. Last week, my jeweler allowed me to do a semi-upgrade. I say allowed and semi because I didn't have to double-up in cost. This offer was very tempting to me because I wasn't 100% satisfied with the cut and the color of my stone. Here it is--but keep in mind that the picture was taken in the SUN.
Unfortunately, it didn't always look that white, and I found myself resenting the tint more and more, after the novelty of the size wore off. So last week, my jeweler happened to have an uncertified diamond lying around,which he was about to send out. Two hours later, without a certificate and only taking him at his word, I traded in my stone for what he told me was a triple excellent cut, in his expert opinion. We both acknowledged that the color was probably a K, and when we measured it, my new one measured 8.3 versus my older one which was 8.47 (something like that). So he advised me that I should keep my old setting, so that I wouldn't miss the size. But I didn't listen because in my heart, I have always wanted a solitaire-ish ring, but since I didn't own triple excellent before, I never enjoyed my rings as solitaires and I wanted to see the cut difference. So here is my new one:

I took the picture in my work setting, which is where I am most of the time, not out in the sun. The truth is, I am still on the fence about this semi upgrade. He will send it in for certification, and stands behind the stats, so that is not the issue. At this point, I am wondering if I should splurge by paying TWICE THE ORIGINAL PRICE to get a G color with this cut or if I should learn to live with this one. I should add that I only paid 35% of my original purchase price for this trade.
So my verdict on your question, I guess that I will let you know when I finally decide.
Now here are more shots in the same setting, but with a window on a sunny day. The one above was on a gloomy day.


These are not glamour shots, as you can probably tell. Taken with my Iphone.

 

[baroque]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Hi Nala,

That is a beautiful ring! I see what you mean! It is really hard to see color from pics and I find myself wondering if I will forever be looking for the "color" in my stone...that whole "mind clean" thing...

The buying online makes me a little nuts knowing there are so many variables in colors even of the same grade. As was mentioned, just going to James Allen and doing the "compare color" view shows how different the same grade can be!

It will be interesting to hear what your jeweler finds out about the stats on your new stone!

 

[Jambalaya]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

It really looks nice and white in the photos. Photos aren't 100% reliable but it gives you an idea, and it looks good in these.

I consider myself color-sensitive but this looks like a good J and if I were you, I'd probably go for it. You can always return it if you don't like it.

 

[quaddio]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I would try to get a feel for how it will look in yellow gold before deciding. Try with your wedding band for stone color contrast or with a plan gold band next to the temp ringholder's white prongs. I also love settings with a platinum/wg basket close to the girdle (Cartier style) which can help with reducing visible side-tint. Good luck

 

[Hospatogi]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

The diamond in the photos you posted is very appealing to me! I'd order and give her a go, assuming there is a good return policy. Beautiful!

I should add Arkeibs suggestion is surely the most practical and sensible. I just really thought the stone in the photos was pretty.

thanks apacherose..the more I look at the photos, the more emotionally attached I become to it...

Does the store have a good return policy? Maybe you could purchase it and keep it for a few days to see how you feel. Maybe take it to a few places where you can see it in different light settings. It's a big purchase so you shouldn't settle?

and Hospatogi, I agree...to settle just seems wrong. Who knew with my given (and I think-very generous) upgrade budget of $23K I would have to compromise at all? Not me...I had no idea what I was getting myself into! Especially considering what my previous (now lost in NY) stone was...not great in terms of the GIA report, but I thought it was fine, LOL. We only got $12K from the ins, and if I wanted a 1.5 again, I could probably do OK with that...but he said I could go bigger! But anywho, this is much harder than I thought it was going to be, or I am just overthinking it all!

I haven't saved up enough for an upgrade yet but I also would have thought your budget was more than generous. And no you are not over thinking ..I'd be the same way.

 

[two_little_birds]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I have a 2.61ct J and love it. But like others have said, color is very personal.

 

[heididdl]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

My 2.41 tcw studs are J color and I cant see them they are on my ears ... Howevver I just bought F color jackets and it does bother me a little bit. REally I am glad that I can't see them i don't think I'd be happy with a J color e ring that sparkles all day long and would look yellow in the light.

 

[apacherose]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

Based on those images (which may or may not be an accurate representation of color), I wouldn't purchase it. I'd go down a bit in size to get better color.

You think the pics show too much tint?

Ok... do the photos show color? Yes. It is a J. Question is, is it too much tint for you. I find it very pretty. But I would not buy it if seeing any tint would bother me. I'd buy it because she's beautiful for what she is. I *like* the tint I am seeing in the photos. It is not an unattractive hue, and the diamond seems to be doing that chameleon-multicolor-environmental-reflection thing in the photos...an effect I enjoy. Higher colors tend to reflect those silvery tones and cool whiteness...also stunning and beautiful, but a differrent flavor than a J. Like others note, it is so personal. I would ask the vendor to put it in a yellow gold/white head setting to have a look. I am guessing it is going to be incredibly beautful in the yellow gold. Much of this is nuance. Cant wait to see what you decide.

 

[yssie]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

A reputably-graded J is a J.
A reputably-graded "high J" is a J.
A reputably-graded "low J" is also a J.
A reputably-graded well-cut J is NOT going to face up like a reputably-graded well-cut H (unless that particular specimen was mis-graded, which does happen).
A reputably-graded well-cut J of this size is going to show more body colour (face-up and from the side) than a smaller reputably-graded well-cut J.

In my experience, and from conversations with other people, I feel safe stating that you'd have to be particularly colour-insensitive to fail to note the body colour in direct comparison to a higher-colour stone of similar size, faceting, and proportions.
There is, however, a significant difference between seeing the tint and objecting to the tint... and some people genuinely prefer these lower colours.

I adore my 2.7ct J MRB - I'm one of the aforementioned few who genuinely prefers stones in the J-M/N range. That said, I have compared my stone in-person to a colourless stone of nearly-identical size and proportions and the higher-coloured stone indisputably appeared larger. This makes perfect sense: higher coloured material that absorb fewer wavelengths returns "whiter", higher-energy outputs that are objectively brighter, and our eyes interpret "brighter" as "bigger"...

Ditto Arkie - you really need to see some stones in-person and let your eyes decide

 

[baroque]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

So...In my attempt to decide Size vs Color compromise, I ventured out to a Hearts On Fire jeweler today for educational purposes and boy was it educational…

I learned that I must be color sensitive because I actually could see color in all G-H-I-J stones. Not objectionable, but still color, and didn’t find them that far off from each other! Isn’t that crazy? Even holding the G next to the J! So the conclusion there is that if I were going to compromise size for color, I’d probably have to go up to an F or an E even and be pretty much colorless, and that isn’t going to happen on my budget, at least not in a size that will make me happy with an "upgrade" from my lost in NY 1.5 carat I VS2...so that is progress in the decision making arena!

I've currently got two options that I'm considering, both cut to perfection:

The "J" VS1 which is 8.42 x 8.47 x 5.18mm 2.25
or an "I" VS2 (eye clean) which is 8.20 x 8.22 x 5.07mm 2.08

should I toss a coin? Price is comparable in the two.

 

[retrogamer]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

A reputably-graded J is a J.
A reputably-graded "high J" is a J.
A reputably-graded "low J" is also a J.
A reputably-graded well-cut J is NOT going to face up like a reputably-graded well-cut H (unless that particular specimen was mis-graded, which does happen).
A reputably-graded well-cut J of this size is going to show more body colour (face-up and from the side) than a smaller reputably-graded well-cut J.

In my experience, and from conversations with other people, I feel safe stating that you'd have to be particularly colour-insensitive to fail to note the body colour in direct comparison to a higher-colour stone of similar size, faceting, and proportions.
There is, however, a significant difference between seeing the tint and objecting to the tint... and some people genuinely prefer these lower colours.

I adore my 2.7ct J MRB - I'm one of the aforementioned few who genuinely prefers stones in the J-M/N range. That said, I have compared my stone in-person to a colourless stone of nearly-identical size and proportions and the higher-coloured stone indisputably appeared larger. This makes perfect sense: higher coloured material that absorb fewer wavelengths returns "whiter", higher-energy outputs that are objectively brighter, and our eyes interpret "brighter" as "bigger"...

Ditto Arkie - you really need to see some stones in-person and let your eyes decide

To reiterate what Yssie said, a GIA J is still a GIA J period. If the tint bothers you, you may want to step up a few colour grades.

 

[apacherose]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

So...In my attempt to decide Size vs Color compromise, I ventured out to a Hearts On Fire jeweler today for educational purposes and boy was it educational…

I learned that I must be color sensitive because I actually could see color in all G-H-I-J stones. Not objectionable, but still color, and didn’t find them that far off from each other! Isn’t that crazy? Even holding the G next to the J! So the conclusion there is that if I were going to compromise size for color, I’d probably have to go up to an F or an E even and be pretty much colorless, and that isn’t going to happen on my budget, at least not in a size that will make me happy with an "upgrade" from my lost in NY 1.5 carat I VS2...so that is progress in the decision making arena!

I've currently got two options that I'm considering, both cut to perfection:

The "J" VS1 which is 8.42 x 8.47 x 5.18mm 2.25
or an "I" VS2 (eye clean) which is 8.20 x 8.22 x 5.07mm 2.08

should I toss a coin? Price is comparable in the two.

I am THRILLED that you did this. That was a very productive trip!!!

Knowing what you know now, I'd definitely try on that gorgeous J in the photos. Does the vendor have a good upgrade policy? It is kind of cool to think you could always go up in color in the future if you decide to. It will be noticeably bigger than the 'I'. They could be really close in color anyways, and now I'm not scared that you haven't seen 'J's' IRL. If your dilemma was with a 'G' stone I might have more reservations, but, meh- in this case with the colors so close my vote goes for size. Good luck!

 

[apacherose]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I adore my 2.7ct J MRB - I'm one of the aforementioned few who genuinely prefers stones in the J-M/N range. That said, I have compared my stone in-person to a colourless stone of nearly-identical size and proportions and the higher-coloured stone indisputably appeared larger. This makes perfect sense: higher coloured material that absorb fewer wavelengths returns "whiter", higher-energy outputs that are objectively brighter, and our eyes interpret "brighter" as "bigger"...

Really good post- and I quoted my favorite part- very cool!

This phenomenon never occurred to me in my diamond shopping. I went down in color to gain size, not because I genuinely preferred lower colors. I am curious as to how much bigger the higher colors seem. Definitely makes a strong case for going for one's true color preference. Thanks, Yssie.

*also I was googling PS about putting diamonds in all yellow gold settings and another one of your posts came up where you painted your setting red to show the reflection in a colorless diamond- very interesting, thanks for that post as well!*

 

[yssie]

Re: To 'J" or not to "J"...that is the question...for 2+ car

I adore my 2.7ct J MRB - I'm one of the aforementioned few who genuinely prefers stones in the J-M/N range. That said, I have compared my stone in-person to a colourless stone of nearly-identical size and proportions and the higher-coloured stone indisputably appeared larger. This makes perfect sense: higher coloured material that absorb fewer wavelengths returns "whiter", higher-energy outputs that are objectively brighter, and our eyes interpret "brighter" as "bigger"...

Really good post- and I quoted my favorite part- very cool!

This phenomenon never occurred to me in my diamond shopping. I went down in color to gain size, not because I genuinely preferred lower colors. I am curious as to how much bigger the higher colors seem. Definitely makes a strong case for going for one's true color preference. Thanks, Yssie.

*also I was googling PS about putting diamonds in all yellow gold settings and another one of your posts came up where you painted your setting red to show the reflection in a colorless diamond- very interesting, thanks for that post as well!*

Interesting that you have noted the colour/apparent size comparison! I re-read what I wrote and realised that I was completely unclear re. "higher colour" - I actually find colourless (whiter) stones to look larger than lower-coloured (J, K, L, etc.) stones of the same size and proportions... but I adore my lower-colours anyway People really do see things differently! It's definitely the best argument for going with what your eyes prefer, as you said

ETA: I remember that pic! The other half was home sick that day and thought I'd gone 'round the bend, painting diamonds with nail polish...