Isn't it strange..

[barbiebien]

That the diamond industry started in Europe but that people rarely wear diamonds here an buying ideal cuts is almost impossible? I live in Amsterdam close to Antwerp and most jewelry stores cary poor cut stones at super high prices. People just don't wear big stones. My SO's family is Jewish and they used to work in the diamond industry before the war and they don't really wear any of their diamonds they just sit in the safe. The same for my grandmother, she has tons of them but she says she doesn't know when to wear them.

Why did the diamonds disappear in Europe?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

So sad to have them and not enjoy them. I'll be interested to seeing if anyone can answer your question!

 

[aussiemel]

I live in Germany and it´s exactly the same here, I don´t understand it either. I´m interested to hear other opinions on this

 

[kenny]

Perhaps it has something to do with Europe having a long history of royalty.
Royals often own/display diamonds so maybe much of the population just doesn't think diamonds are something for them.

Just a guess.

 

[barbiebien]

Alot of royals don't really wear much bling either unless it's a formal event. If any bling i see it more on 'new money'

 

[Smith1940]

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but in England, among the middle classes and above, large diamonds are seen as tasteless. Particularly among the upper classes and the aristocracy, any ostentatious display of wealth was traditionally seen as lacking in taste. That's why the abiding image of an aristocrat is of someone wandering his estate drressed in the holiest, most raggedy jumpers and old Barbours you can imagine! Harper's magazine ran an article a couple of years ago about Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris, at her home. The article focused on how dirty her siting room was, covered in mud tracked in by her dogs, and how holey her clothes were. If you watch Downton Abbey on PBS, you might remember the parts where the British aristocrat is very suspicious of electricity, and his American wife says, "I'm American; I don't share your British hatred of comfort."

Although that particular example is about about creature comforts, it's part of a generalised attitude of a rather left-leaning country that does not really condone an emphasis on looks, personal decoration, personal comfort, or displays of wealth. It's very English to just sit in the gloom as the winter day wears on, and not to put a light on until the room is practically dark. Used to drive me nuts. And all my friends are highly-educated professionals with well-off husbands, yet generally, the women do not wear make-up for everyday, just for going out, and the largest engagement ring is half a carat. My ring, at 0.70, is seen as "a rock" - real quote! When I worked in London, if I turned up at work in a skirt and make-up, they'd want to know why I was "all dressed up" and I'd get teased. In the States, women are in general more dressed up for everyday than women in the UK. And the amount, and size, of jewellery is a part of that. Sometimes, at 8am on a Monday morning on the train, I'm surronded by women who look - to my eyes - as if they're going to a wedding! Such prefection of dress, hair, and make-up is - in general - reserved for special occasions.

Finally, large diamonds are seen, in certain circles, as - horrors - the preserve of "new money".

There is also an attitude of austerity in the UK among older people. My mother-in-law is 74, and althought she is extremely well-off herself, when she comes to visit I really have to hide how much jewellery and luxury-brand make-up/toiletires I have, because she's very quick to pass comment on such things. There remains an attitude among some that you just shouldn't have too much. I don't think I have that many clothes for a 37-year-old woman, but she always remarks on how much I have, and my grandmother was exactly the same. Very make-do-and-mend. And you can imagine how well the notion of large diamonds meshes with the "make-do-and-mend" school of thought!

These insights are obviously generalised, but this is the overriding attitude among certain circles in the UK. In fact, to be too "done" is seen as quite tacky - for example, certain commentators have said of late that Kate Middleton is looking like a footballer's wife, with her big hair perfectly curled, her very white teeth, her perfect manicure and skinny body. Cherly Cole and Victoria Beckham are seen as the leading chavs of the nation, and the middle/upper classes recoil in horror at looking like this. And of course, those girls have enormous diamonds. (A "chav" is a word denoting a very lower-class woman who traditionally has the fake nails, wears very large hoop earrings, and has fake-looking huge long curls.)

The issue of teeth is also illuminative. In the UK, to have teeth that are too perfectly white and straight is also seen as a bit "chavvy". I don't know if that's because all the footballers' wives have teeth like that - and it's an insult to be told you look like a footballer's wife, or like a WAG as they're known, stands for Wives And Girlfriends - or if it's because you look like you're trying too hard.

Interestingly, when I go home and I'm in the middle of a crowd of people, they look different to me now. In the States, I am so used to seeing visions of perfection - perfect groomed bouncy hair, amazing teeth, women wearing bright skirts and dresses - and when I look at people at home on the streets now, as a group, they look much drabber and less groomed than I'm used to seeing.

Anyway, being a lover of jewellery and make-up, I fit in better in the States than in the UK! And, in fact, it's five years today since I became a US immigrant! I moved here April 16, 2007.

Oh - one other thing. The idea of upgrading an engagement ring is pretty much unheard of in the UK. Austerity Britain again!

Sorry for the long reply - but you did ask!!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi smith,

I lived i the UK for a while and do agree with what you have said. Even in the US we have regional cultures that have different aspects of life. Since I am older, I love the fact the women wear very little make-up. When I was younger I felt differently. Liked make-up and such. I have 4 nieces over there and have sent jewelry to them, including diamond hoop earrings for a 21st birthday and learned they didn't wear them. I even sent a Movada watch for one, which she never even thanked me for. One neice, asked my very nicely to stop sending jewelry , as she didn't wear it. So I stopped. They view Americans as rather brash anyway.

One other story. My brother married a second time to a British gal that I had not yet met. I wanted to bring her something I thought was pretty and found a silk blouse with sequins on it. To me it was beautiful. When she opened the package she couldn't hide her loathing of the piece. I felt so bad, and knew that it went in the rubbish bin as soon as I left. We learn.

Annette

 

[Smith1940]

Hi Smit!

Well, I think those people sound very rude! They should have thanked you for those things, which sound absolutely beautiful, and made out that they loved them. You wouldn't have known any different, since you live so far away.

Anyway, that's what I meant about me fitting in better in the US. I love beautiful things like jewellery and at 37, I look a million times better with some make-up on! (Takes ages to get the natural look, ha ha!) To me, it's ridiculous how some people at home around me affected to disdain something like a gorgeous piece of jewellery. I suppose I don't really believe that they are genuine in their dislike, and that they pretentiously affect to dislike gorgeous things as a way of demonstrating how austere and upper-class they are, and that behind closed doors, they are parading in their diamond hoops in front of the mirror! (I'm talking in general terms - not about your niece and her earrings.)

I have only lived in one place in the US, so I don't know about the different cultures, and I probably miss a lot of cultural cues.

 

[elliemay]

I can second Smith1940's post, but in reverse -- I was born and raised in the US, but have been in the UK for nearly a decade. I really loooooove jewellery and notice it on every woman and I've yet to see a diamond solitaire of more than 1/2 carat on any woman I've met. British women also seem far more fond of coloured stones in engagement rings, especially sapphires and rubies, than American women do.

As a nation, the British (a sweeping generalisation, but based on my observations) are very reserved and concerned with maintaining their privacy and not drawing attention to themselves, so it does make sense that their jewellery choices are more conservative. You do see the WAGs with huge diamond rings, but these are very much the exception to the rule.

I've just asked my (English) husband about this and he says there's very much a stigma attached to wearing too much jewellery -- that it appears to be "common" or lower class...so maybe this carries over into fine jewellery/diamonds as well?

One of the girls at work calls my engagement ring "American style", which cracks me up, because "American style" = HUGE over here! That said, I do what I want -- I'm very much a "done" girl with full makeup, sparkly jewellery, and matchy matchy everything because that's how I was raised and that's what I like. If that's a bit common, well, so be it!

Also thinking about marketing -- there's no equivalent to the DeBeers "two/three months' salary" campaign over here, so there's no expectation that engagement rings "should" cost a specific amount. I think the current American preoccupation with diamond size is more a result of modern marketing than anything else.

ETA -- thinking about it more, class really does come into it...maybe moreso in England than anywhere else in Europe because the class system is so entrenched here.

 

[yssie]

Oh my, I laughed out loud at some of your descriptions We Americans could certainly write similarly of ourselves!

Culture is such an interesting thing. My parents moved all over the world when I was growing up, but of course I have a kid's memories - it would be fascinating to go back and live in all those places as an adult. I remember flying to visit my family in India once and a mother in the row ahead told her toddler to Eat It Now!! in English, Tamil, and French. Trilingual!?

And... that is totally OT. Thanks for sharing that Smith, and ellie!

 

[Phdecorate]

I don't have any real thoughts of my own on this one, except to say it was so interesting to read and understand. And it really made me understand why Kate would not want to be seen with a large diamond, aside from the fact that she has rec'd princess di's ring, I had always wondered, would she not rather have a diamond if it was not for whose ring it was before and the symbol of that, but now this makes much more sense! My cultural lesson for the day!

 

[Smith1940]

Ellie - good for you, doing what you want! I don't have the figure or the skill with curling tongs to look as "done" as many over here, but I am significantly more polished than the UK gals I know at home - I love make-up and jewellery. I am sure you look amazing!

Moving from the US to the UK must have been a really hard transition, with the weather, high taxes, horribly high cost of housing, etc. I miss my family and friends in the UK, and familiar places, and the sense of history. That's it, though. I don't miss day-to-day life at all. Admittedly, I lived in the crowded south-east and took public transport, and lived also in London. I found it a particular grind because the trains were forever broken and London was so expensive. But if you live in a more rural area, I'm sure it's easier.

Anyway, I find the Americans so expansive, and open, and friendly, and polite, and supportive...quite the opposite of what I'm used to. I have encountered a little xenophobia, but only from a handful of people - example, one girl at work called me a "British snob" for not liking the taste of PB&J. She also told me, one day, that although the Americans like the British in general she didn't buy into that and didn't see what all the fuss is about. She wouldn't come near me unless she absolutely had to...and here's the kicker: she was supposed to be my mentor!!!! Another guy at the same work had had a serious British girlfriend in the past, and I think she must have rejected him, because in every conversation for two years he basically had a go at me for being British. He never let up - not once, until I forwarded him the company code of conduct.

However, most Americans have been lovely and I have far more and better friends here than I ever had at home. There is a real streak of petty jealousy and nastiness in London that doesn't seem to exist over here. Or perhaps that's just the industry I worked in - bitchy London media.

I think that it's the lot of every immigrant to the US to experience a little xenophobia, so I count myself as part of a great tradition of immigration to the US!

 

[barbiebien]

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but in England, among the middle classes and above, large diamonds are seen as tasteless. Particularly among the upper classes and the aristocracy, any ostentatious display of wealth was traditionally seen as lacking in taste. That's why the abiding image of an aristocrat is of someone wandering his estate drressed in the holiest, most raggedy jumpers and old Barbours you can imagine! Harper's magazine ran an article a couple of years ago about Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris, at her home. The article focused on how dirty her siting room was, covered in mud tracked in by her dogs, and how holey her clothes were. If you watch Downton Abbey on PBS, you might remember the parts where the British aristocrat is very suspicious of electricity, and his American wife says, "I'm American; I don't share your British hatred of comfort."

Although that particular example is about about creature comforts, it's part of a generalised attitude of a rather left-leaning country that does not really condone an emphasis on looks, personal decoration, personal comfort, or displays of wealth. It's very English to just sit in the gloom as the winter day wears on, and not to put a light on until the room is practically dark. Used to drive me nuts. And all my friends are highly-educated professionals with well-off husbands, yet generally, the women do not wear make-up for everyday, just for going out, and the largest engagement ring is half a carat. My ring, at 0.70, is seen as "a rock" - real quote! When I worked in London, if I turned up at work in a skirt and make-up, they'd want to know why I was "all dressed up" and I'd get teased. In the States, women are in general more dressed up for everyday than women in the UK. And the amount, and size, of jewellery is a part of that. Sometimes, at 8am on a Monday morning on the train, I'm surronded by women who look - to my eyes - as if they're going to a wedding! Such prefection of dress, hair, and make-up is - in general - reserved for special occasions.

Finally, large diamonds are seen, in certain circles, as - horrors - the preserve of "new money".

There is also an attitude of austerity in the UK among older people. My mother-in-law is 74, and althought she is extremely well-off herself, when she comes to visit I really have to hide how much jewellery and luxury-brand make-up/toiletires I have, because she's very quick to pass comment on such things. There remains an attitude among some that you just shouldn't have too much. I don't think I have that many clothes for a 37-year-old woman, but she always remarks on how much I have, and my grandmother was exactly the same. Very make-do-and-mend. And you can imagine how well the notion of large diamonds meshes with the "make-do-and-mend" school of thought!

These insights are obviously generalised, but this is the overriding attitude among certain circles in the UK. In fact, to be too "done" is seen as quite tacky - for example, certain commentators have said of late that Kate Middleton is looking like a footballer's wife, with her big hair perfectly curled, her very white teeth, her perfect manicure and skinny body. Cherly Cole and Victoria Beckham are seen as the leading chavs of the nation, and the middle/upper classes recoil in horror at looking like this. And of course, those girls have enormous diamonds. (A "chav" is a word denoting a very lower-class woman who traditionally has the fake nails, wears very large hoop earrings, and has fake-looking huge long curls.)

The issue of teeth is also illuminative. In the UK, to have teeth that are too perfectly white and straight is also seen as a bit "chavvy". I don't know if that's because all the footballers' wives have teeth like that - and it's an insult to be told you look like a footballer's wife, or like a WAG as they're known, stands for Wives And Girlfriends - or if it's because you look like you're trying too hard.

Interestingly, when I go home and I'm in the middle of a crowd of people, they look different to me now. In the States, I am so used to seeing visions of perfection - perfect groomed bouncy hair, amazing teeth, women wearing bright skirts and dresses - and when I look at people at home on the streets now, as a group, they look much drabber and less groomed than I'm used to seeing.

Anyway, being a lover of jewellery and make-up, I fit in better in the States than in the UK! And, in fact, it's five years today since I became a US immigrant! I moved here April 16, 2007.

Oh - one other thing. The idea of upgrading an engagement ring is pretty much unheard of in the UK. Austerity Britain again!

Sorry for the long reply - but you did ask!!

it's quite similar here in the Netherlands

 

[Smith1940]

I don't have any real thoughts of my own on this one, except to say it was so interesting to read and understand. And it really made me understand why Kate would not want to be seen with a large diamond, aside from the fact that she has rec'd princess di's ring, I had always wondered, would she not rather have a diamond if it was not for whose ring it was before and the symbol of that, but now this makes much more sense! My cultural lesson for the day!

Hi Phdecorate: Princess Diana's ring was really something of an aberration. The royal ladies do have diamonds but they are usually inherited. Camilla's ring is made of quite large diamonds, but they belonged to the Queen Mother, I think. It's odd that Diana had a new ring. It's also odd that, being such a blue-blooded aristocrat, she chose something so huge and gaudy. (That's my opinion of it, anyway.) But I think the answer lies in the fact that Charles didn't really love her, as he said in his autobiography, and so just had a man from Garrard's come with a tray of new stuff, rather than picking something meaningful from the royal collection. When Fergie and Andrew got married, she received a tiara from the Queen as a wedding gift. However...it was a new tiara. Basically, new jewels from the royal family are something of an insult. It means you are not to be trusted with the family jewels and/or are not good enough or loved enough to receive them.

As regards Kate, my personal opinion is that William was nuts to give her that ring. It has terrible connotations of heartache, divorce, and death. Also, it is very dated. Kate is a modern girl and I would bet money that she would much rather have had some lovely diamond and platinum concoction on her finger, but that she could hardly say no to his beloved mother's ring!

 

[John P]

That the diamond industry started in Europe but that people rarely wear diamonds here an buying ideal cuts is almost impossible? I live in Amsterdam close to Antwerp and most jewelry stores cary poor cut stones at super high prices. People just don't wear big stones. My SO's family is Jewish and they used to work in the diamond industry before the war and they don't really wear any of their diamonds they just sit in the safe. The same for my grandmother, she has tons of them but she says she doesn't know when to wear them. Why did the diamonds disappear in Europe?

What's interesting is that the most cut-aware diamond markets in the world are the newest markets; China-India.
The USA is more cut-aware now than 20 years ago, but many traditional stores still lag behind the curve.
Since Europe's market dates back to the early days of cutting it's possible those deep roots overshadow "modern" developments.

I recall a discussion about Europe, cutting, and the history of Jews in the diamond business that might be of interest to this thread's readers:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/since-cut-diamonds-started-in-europe.143718/

Cheers,

 

[Smith1940]

Barbiebien - that's an interesting insight.

 

[Smith1940]

That the diamond industry started in Europe but that people rarely wear diamonds here an buying ideal cuts is almost impossible? I live in Amsterdam close to Antwerp and most jewelry stores cary poor cut stones at super high prices. People just don't wear big stones. My SO's family is Jewish and they used to work in the diamond industry before the war and they don't really wear any of their diamonds they just sit in the safe. The same for my grandmother, she has tons of them but she says she doesn't know when to wear them. Why did the diamonds disappear in Europe?

What's interesting is that the most cut-aware diamond markets in the world are the newest markets; China-India.
The USA is more cut-aware now than 20 years ago, but many traditional stores still lag behind the curve.
Since Europe's market dates back to the early days of cutting it's possible those deep roots overshadow "modern" developments.

I recall a discussion about Europe, cutting, and the history of Jews in the diamond business that might be of interest to this thread's readers:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/since-cut-diamonds-started-in-europe.143718/

Cheers,

John - there is so much information in that thread. Thanks!

 

[Smith1940]

That the diamond industry started in Europe but that people rarely wear diamonds here an buying ideal cuts is almost impossible? I live in Amsterdam close to Antwerp and most jewelry stores cary poor cut stones at super high prices. People just don't wear big stones. My SO's family is Jewish and they used to work in the diamond industry before the war and they don't really wear any of their diamonds they just sit in the safe. The same for my grandmother, she has tons of them but she says she doesn't know when to wear them. Why did the diamonds disappear in Europe?

What's interesting is that the most cut-aware diamond markets in the world are the newest markets; China-India.
The USA is more cut-aware now than 20 years ago, but many traditional stores still lag behind the curve.
Since Europe's market dates back to the early days of cutting it's possible those deep roots overshadow "modern" developments.

I recall a discussion about Europe, cutting, and the history of Jews in the diamond business that might be of interest to this thread's readers:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/since-cut-diamonds-started-in-europe.143718/

Cheers,

John - there is so much information in that thread. Thanks!

 

[barbiebien]

My boyfriend an i are looking at rings at the moment and it seems strange to most that we want a new diamond. I really love my antiques and wear them proudly. I love my OEC cut studs but i love something super ideal cut for my ring. I know when we will have children we will have something made out of his families stones and maybe my wedding band also. I know our families will be a bit upset about buying a new ring but thats ok.

 

[TravelingGal]

Anyway, I find the Americans so expansive, and open, and friendly, and polite, and supportive...quite the opposite of what I'm used to. I have encountered a little xenophobia, but only from a handful of people - example, one girl at work called me a "British snob" for not liking the taste of PB&J. She also told me, one day, that although the Americans like the British in general she didn't buy into that and didn't see what all the fuss is about.

I hate to say it but most people in the WORLD don't get the PB&J thing. TGuy (my husband) is an Aussie and the race was on when it came to our kid: Could he get her to prefer toast with vegemite, or could I get her to prefer PB&J! My child, ever the diplomat, loves both. TGuy thinks peanut butter is the most disgusting thing on earth, and I gag whenever I open the vegemite jar.

But he agrees that the US ain't a bad place to live.

I have a three stone project going at the moment and I showed my ILs the brooch when they were visiting. My FIL exclaimed "That's going to be MASSIVE!" when I explained my plans. I'm like, really? Massive? It's only 1c center and .5 sides! But yeah, they probably had a minute where they wondered to themselves how their son got wrapped up with such a flash, materialistic woman. Fortunately they know me well and the reality is quite the opposite.

Everyone I know in LA wears a lot of "stuff". Probably in most places in the world, we look crass even though it's a simple ring on each finger, earrings, watch and a necklace. But that's why "I love L.A. "

 

[fridays_child]

I find this topic really interesting!

I had a British neighbor/friend back in Chicago area, we'd chat everyday as we were walking our kids to school. She mentioned that she *loved* the laid-back attitude regarding make-up in our suburb. (The two of us usually didn't have make up on in the mornings, although we, and the rest of the general female population there, were well put together most of the time). I wish I remember what town she was from in England. She said all the moms at their school would not think of walking out of the house without makeup on, and they'd all see each other every day because everyone would walk their kids to/from school. Perhaps it only takes one or two to always appear "done up", and then everyone feels the pressure after that?

But getting back to diamonds, I am naturally a less-is-more sort of person, so even though I can appreciate some of the big diamonds shared on this site, I also enjoy the smaller/medium ones as well, and I know I will never be a serial-upgrader or collector. (Not hating on collectors or upgraders, just saying it's not for me ).

Congrats on your engagement or upcoming engagement Barbiebien! Good luck and have fun finding your new RB!

 

[yssie]

Anyway, I find the Americans so expansive, and open, and friendly, and polite, and supportive...quite the opposite of what I'm used to. I have encountered a little xenophobia, but only from a handful of people - example, one girl at work called me a "British snob" for not liking the taste of PB&J. She also told me, one day, that although the Americans like the British in general she didn't buy into that and didn't see what all the fuss is about.

I hate to say it but most people in the WORLD don't get the PB&J thing. TGuy (my husband) is an Aussie and the race was on when it came to our kid: Could he get her to prefer toast with vegemite, or could I get her to prefer PB&J! My child, ever the diplomat, loves both. TGuy thinks peanut butter is the most disgusting thing on earth, and I gag whenever I open the vegemite jar.

But he agrees that the US ain't a bad place to live.

I have a three stone project going at the moment and I showed my ILs the brooch when they were visiting. My FIL exclaimed "That's going to be MASSIVE!" when I explained my plans. I'm like, really? Massive? It's only 1c center and .5 sides! But yeah, they probably had a minute where they wondered to themselves how their son got wrapped up with such a flash, materialistic woman. Fortunately they know me well and the reality is quite the opposite.

Everyone I know in LA wears a lot of "stuff". Probably in most places in the world, we look crass even though it's a simple ring on each finger, earrings, watch and a necklace. But that's why "I love L.A. "

Well, obviously. The stuff smells like a gas leak.
Marmite, on the other hand, is a succulent treat indicative of exceptional taste.

 

[TravelingGal]

Anyway, I find the Americans so expansive, and open, and friendly, and polite, and supportive...quite the opposite of what I'm used to. I have encountered a little xenophobia, but only from a handful of people - example, one girl at work called me a "British snob" for not liking the taste of PB&J. She also told me, one day, that although the Americans like the British in general she didn't buy into that and didn't see what all the fuss is about.

I hate to say it but most people in the WORLD don't get the PB&J thing. TGuy (my husband) is an Aussie and the race was on when it came to our kid: Could he get her to prefer toast with vegemite, or could I get her to prefer PB&J! My child, ever the diplomat, loves both. TGuy thinks peanut butter is the most disgusting thing on earth, and I gag whenever I open the vegemite jar.

But he agrees that the US ain't a bad place to live.

I have a three stone project going at the moment and I showed my ILs the brooch when they were visiting. My FIL exclaimed "That's going to be MASSIVE!" when I explained my plans. I'm like, really? Massive? It's only 1c center and .5 sides! But yeah, they probably had a minute where they wondered to themselves how their son got wrapped up with such a flash, materialistic woman. Fortunately they know me well and the reality is quite the opposite.

Everyone I know in LA wears a lot of "stuff". Probably in most places in the world, we look crass even though it's a simple ring on each finger, earrings, watch and a necklace. But that's why "I love L.A. "

Well, obviously. The stuff smells like a gas leak.
Marmite, on the other hand, is a succulent treat indicative of exceptional taste.

Ha, no. Sorry Yssie, both are equally bad. And I consider myself to be pretty open to foods!

 

[barbiebien]

Thank you fridays child

 

[yssie]

Anyway, I find the Americans so expansive, and open, and friendly, and polite, and supportive...quite the opposite of what I'm used to. I have encountered a little xenophobia, but only from a handful of people - example, one girl at work called me a "British snob" for not liking the taste of PB&J. She also told me, one day, that although the Americans like the British in general she didn't buy into that and didn't see what all the fuss is about.

I hate to say it but most people in the WORLD don't get the PB&J thing. TGuy (my husband) is an Aussie and the race was on when it came to our kid: Could he get her to prefer toast with vegemite, or could I get her to prefer PB&J! My child, ever the diplomat, loves both. TGuy thinks peanut butter is the most disgusting thing on earth, and I gag whenever I open the vegemite jar.

But he agrees that the US ain't a bad place to live.

I have a three stone project going at the moment and I showed my ILs the brooch when they were visiting. My FIL exclaimed "That's going to be MASSIVE!" when I explained my plans. I'm like, really? Massive? It's only 1c center and .5 sides! But yeah, they probably had a minute where they wondered to themselves how their son got wrapped up with such a flash, materialistic woman. Fortunately they know me well and the reality is quite the opposite.

Everyone I know in LA wears a lot of "stuff". Probably in most places in the world, we look crass even though it's a simple ring on each finger, earrings, watch and a necklace. But that's why "I love L.A. "

Well, obviously. The stuff smells like a gas leak.
Marmite, on the other hand, is a succulent treat indicative of exceptional taste.

Ha, no. Sorry Yssie, both are equally bad. And I consider myself to be pretty open to foods!

 

[AprilBaby]

I thought I had read somewhere Europeans consider diamonds "night time" jewelry? Such as black tie, special event jewelry?

 

[Circe]

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but in England, among the middle classes and above, large diamonds are seen as tasteless. Particularly among the upper classes and the aristocracy, any ostentatious display of wealth was traditionally seen as lacking in taste. That's why the abiding image of an aristocrat is of someone wandering his estate drressed in the holiest, most raggedy jumpers and old Barbours you can imagine! Harper's magazine ran an article a couple of years ago about Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris, at her home. The article focused on how dirty her siting room was, covered in mud tracked in by her dogs, and how holey her clothes were. If you watch Downton Abbey on PBS, you might remember the parts where the British aristocrat is very suspicious of electricity, and his American wife says, "I'm American; I don't share your British hatred of comfort."

Although that particular example is about about creature comforts, it's part of a generalised attitude of a rather left-leaning country that does not really condone an emphasis on looks, personal decoration, personal comfort, or displays of wealth. It's very English to just sit in the gloom as the winter day wears on, and not to put a light on until the room is practically dark. Used to drive me nuts. And all my friends are highly-educated professionals with well-off husbands, yet generally, the women do not wear make-up for everyday, just for going out, and the largest engagement ring is half a carat. My ring, at 0.70, is seen as "a rock" - real quote! When I worked in London, if I turned up at work in a skirt and make-up, they'd want to know why I was "all dressed up" and I'd get teased. In the States, women are in general more dressed up for everyday than women in the UK. And the amount, and size, of jewellery is a part of that. Sometimes, at 8am on a Monday morning on the train, I'm surronded by women who look - to my eyes - as if they're going to a wedding! Such prefection of dress, hair, and make-up is - in general - reserved for special occasions.

Finally, large diamonds are seen, in certain circles, as - horrors - the preserve of "new money".

There is also an attitude of austerity in the UK among older people. My mother-in-law is 74, and althought she is extremely well-off herself, when she comes to visit I really have to hide how much jewellery and luxury-brand make-up/toiletires I have, because she's very quick to pass comment on such things. There remains an attitude among some that you just shouldn't have too much. I don't think I have that many clothes for a 37-year-old woman, but she always remarks on how much I have, and my grandmother was exactly the same. Very make-do-and-mend. And you can imagine how well the notion of large diamonds meshes with the "make-do-and-mend" school of thought!

These insights are obviously generalised, but this is the overriding attitude among certain circles in the UK. In fact, to be too "done" is seen as quite tacky - for example, certain commentators have said of late that Kate Middleton is looking like a footballer's wife, with her big hair perfectly curled, her very white teeth, her perfect manicure and skinny body. Cherly Cole and Victoria Beckham are seen as the leading chavs of the nation, and the middle/upper classes recoil in horror at looking like this. And of course, those girls have enormous diamonds. (A "chav" is a word denoting a very lower-class woman who traditionally has the fake nails, wears very large hoop earrings, and has fake-looking huge long curls.)

The issue of teeth is also illuminative. In the UK, to have teeth that are too perfectly white and straight is also seen as a bit "chavvy". I don't know if that's because all the footballers' wives have teeth like that - and it's an insult to be told you look like a footballer's wife, or like a WAG as they're known, stands for Wives And Girlfriends - or if it's because you look like you're trying too hard.

Interestingly, when I go home and I'm in the middle of a crowd of people, they look different to me now. In the States, I am so used to seeing visions of perfection - perfect groomed bouncy hair, amazing teeth, women wearing bright skirts and dresses - and when I look at people at home on the streets now, as a group, they look much drabber and less groomed than I'm used to seeing.

Anyway, being a lover of jewellery and make-up, I fit in better in the States than in the UK! And, in fact, it's five years today since I became a US immigrant! I moved here April 16, 2007.

Oh - one other thing. The idea of upgrading an engagement ring is pretty much unheard of in the UK. Austerity Britain again!

Sorry for the long reply - but you did ask!!

What I find fascinating about this dichotomy is ... what's wrong with new money? I realize the question itself marks me as a product of modern-day America, and an America experienced as an immigrant, at that. But it is something that has always puzzled me on a philosophical level - in a society where everybody works, and those wealthy enough to be truly idle are held in a kind of contempt (hell, where even stay-at-home-moms are sometimes seen as being idle despite their very real labor), what on earth is the stigma of looking like you've earned your money, and thus, enjoy spending it?

 

[elliemay]

Ellie - good for you, doing what you want! I don't have the figure or the skill with curling tongs to look as "done" as many over here, but I am significantly more polished than the UK gals I know at home - I love make-up and jewellery. I am sure you look amazing!

Whoa...don't get the wrong idea -- I certainly don't look like Kate when I step out of the house in the morning! I wish! On my very, very best days, perhaps I look like her older, much shorter, much fatter adopted sister, if one squints with half-closed and crossed eyes! I really meant that I feel like I wear more makeup and jewellery than the women I'm friends with and work with -- I'm one of those women who puts on a full face of makeup to go move the car from the street to the garage!

Moving from the US to the UK must have been a really hard transition, with the weather, high taxes, horribly high cost of housing, etc. I miss my family and friends in the UK, and familiar places, and the sense of history. That's it, though. I don't miss day-to-day life at all. Admittedly, I lived in the crowded south-east and took public transport, and lived also in London. I found it a particular grind because the trains were forever broken and London was so expensive. But if you live in a more rural area, I'm sure it's easier.

It was a major culture shock at first. I'd visited before, but was in love with the charm of everything, so it was all lovely and quaint. Living here really kicked my butt for the first few months because it was so cold and dark (moved over right after the clocks changed for winter - blech), I couldn't understand anyone when they spoke to me, and I couldn't find any familar foods, and finding plus-sized clothing was an absolute nightmare.

I soon settled in, though, and love it now. It's very much home and suspect it will be even more so after I've had children. I moved from the southern US to northeast England, and I think that was the perfect fit for me -- both are full of loud, nosy, friendly people who will tell you how to live your life if you give them half a chance!

Anyway, I find the Americans so expansive, and open, and friendly, and polite, and supportive...quite the opposite of what I'm used to. I have encountered a little xenophobia, but only from a handful of people - example, one girl at work called me a "British snob" for not liking the taste of PB&J. She also told me, one day, that although the Americans like the British in general she didn't buy into that and didn't see what all the fuss is about. She wouldn't come near me unless she absolutely had to...and here's the kicker: she was supposed to be my mentor!!!! Another guy at the same work had had a serious British girlfriend in the past, and I think she must have rejected him, because in every conversation for two years he basically had a go at me for being British. He never let up - not once, until I forwarded him the company code of conduct.

However, most Americans have been lovely and I have far more and better friends here than I ever had at home. There is a real streak of petty jealousy and nastiness in London that doesn't seem to exist over here. Or perhaps that's just the industry I worked in - bitchy London media.

I think that it's the lot of every immigrant to the US to experience a little xenophobia, so I count myself as part of a great tradition of immigration to the US!

Ah, there'll always be those people, won't there? Not long ago we had a BNP candidate come to the door and go through his big anti-immigration speech and I nodded along with it. When he finished, I asked him (in my best Steel Magnolias accent) if he was referring to ME, since I'm an immigrant. He looked like he'd swallowed a toad and said no, of course not, he meant "the other kind" of immigrants. I called him some distinctly unladylike names and slammed the door in his face. Bastard.

 

[Lotus99]

The "new money" or nouveau riche thing is equivalent of "The Beverly Hillbillies" -- the idea of money without the knowledge to spend it appropriately and with taste.

In the UK in particular, your class is obvious to most. Those from "new money" are often seen as crass, without refined taste, etc. It's not something people want to be seen as. I worked in a high-end store that catered to old money in London. The goods tended to be extremely refined, but very expensive. None of it was flashy.

One young lady I worked with at the store received a 2 carat diamond engagement ring. Her fiance was obviously from new money and very wealthy, and everyone knew it.

I think people in the US tend to underestimate the role of classes in the UK. It's almost always apparent from someone's dress, accent and where they live to which class they belong. It's hard to really equate to society in the US.

In the US, people like to show their success in the things they buy and wear. People will openly discuss what size TV they have, which car they drive, where they went for vacation, and other purchases that reflect their success. In some parts of Europe, that would be considered bragging, and perhaps unseemly. Different cultures, for sure.

Of course, some parts of Europe also had ruling families with vast displays of wealth -- then overthrown by an angry peasantry who didn't have food to eat, let alone diamonds to flaunt. Think of the Russian royal jewels and all their Faberge trinkets and you get the idea.

 

[barbiebien]

I don't think Old money doesn't work. It's just that they are more used to having wealth and they display it differently. Both are fine but just different. It's like working moms and stay at home moms. Both are fine but they don't see eye to eye usually.