Disapproving of sibling's relationship..

[allycat0303]

Hi everyone,

I haven't been on this board so much either for lurking, but I need some advice from the ladies here.

My sister (who many of you know) and I have had a rocky relationship in the past. After loads of family drama, we've settled back into our pre-craziness state. We are quite close now. My sister was briefly married, to a truly detestable man, before being divorce. She has been single for about 2 years.

Since then, she has been looking for a relationship. My sister is (and always has been) desperate for children. She has everything going for her: she's beautiful, she's successful, has a load of friends. And in the past 2 years has dated 7 guys who she thought were *serious* but as an outsider, we could see was nonsense. For 6 month now, she's dating a new guy P. Now P is 38 years old, an orthopedic surgeon. I've never met P, but I talk to my sister everyday, and feel like I'm living this relationship. P and her have broken up 6 times in 6 months. Reasons vary but include, him not being ready, her not giving enough, they can't be bothered etc. Although, P unlike her other boyfriends keeps coming back. They break up for about 3 days. And everytime they break up, my sister starts a *self journey to discover why she can't be in a relationship* which is quickly forgotten when P calls back and they get back together.

Bottom line: this relationship stinks. I've never met him, because on weekends (every weekend) "he's on call so he can't attend family functions...or see her." Which stinks to high heaven. As a surgeon in Montreal, being on call means, that if there's an emergency, he comes in and operates. He has residents that round and see patients for him, and a senior resident that is in hospital. I've never seen my staff in the hospital on the weekend. They call in and ask how their patients are doing. I suspect she might not be his only (or primary girlfriend).

I'm trying to be supportive, and saying things like, "Well, you'll see how it goes with P.", when I really want to tell her he's probably playing around, and quite obviously is not intrested in a relationship. 3 of their breakups was because he didn't really know what he wanted!! The guy is 38. If he doesn't know now, he might never know. And this is after a few months of being together!

So do I just tell her what I think? And can anyone tell me why she keeps dating these guys with no potential for the future? On one hand she cries because she's almost 30 and feels she may never have children! I just don't understand what's going on with her.

 

[Circe]

Ally, given how you've described your sis in the past, I sort of think I'd just nod and smile: if she hasn't changed from around the time of her wedding, she's very likely to hold it against you that you had the gall to badmouth her BF.

If she has changed, I think I'd still tread lightly: perhaps encourage her to go out more, date other people, etc., until he settles a bit. And if she won't listen? Well, she won't listen. I think one of the hardest, but most valuable, lessons to learn is when to simply let people make their own mistakes ....

 

[janinegirly]

I agree with Circe - you have a long history of drama with your sister - usually revolving around each other's relationships. I agree that your sister seems to be repeating mistakes and seems determined to find someone no matter the red flags (which is sad since maybe she hasn't learned from the first go around), but getting in the middle or injecting your opinion too much may not be the solution. I suppose you could gently and briefly express your concerns and say you are only offering it as loving, sisterly advice, but then after that back off and just let her live her life, mistakes and all.

Good luck!

 

[iheartscience]

If I were you I wouldn't say a thing. I've been in a similar situation and guess what? Speaking up only hurt MY relationship with the person in the crappy relationship. Just keep your mouth shut because you know she won't listen!

 

[sctsbride09]

I dont know anything about the history with you and your sister, but I will tell you from personal experience that I would stay out of it.

 

[movie zombie]

and perhaps let her know that you love her but it is emotionally upsetting to be living her relationship with this guy with her. perhaps limiting your conversations on the topic, changing to topic, or even just limiting how often you speak with her would help you to cope?

MoZo

 

[amc80]

He sounds....married.

 

[Mara]

Go onto Amazon and order 'He's just not that into you' and have it sent to her. Pretend you don't know who sent it. End of story.

Just kidding (but kinda not really), but there's not much you can do when someone you love is in a bad relationship if THEY aren't ready to see it. Save yourself the drama and heartache and just stay away from it. Though I probably wouldn't have the patience to listen to the drama on a continuous basis, and would just tell her, look I don't agree with what you are doing so I'd rather not hear about your relationship...let's talk about other things instead.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

He sounds....married.

This was my thought exactly. I've seen too many instances (with siblings, even) where unavailable = married.

I'd stay out. I've seen my sisters in relationships that have crashed and burned. They never asked for my opinion, so I never gave them one...my role was to try to be supportive when they were hurting after the breakup (or divorce).

 

[somethingshiny]

He does sound married.

I'd stay out of it. She picks losers and she has to know that by now. You're not going to talk her out of this relationship. She's romanticized the idea of being in a relationship. I'm afraid the only thing that will bring her back down is to get burned bad. That being said, if she ASKS you, I'd definitely tell her the truth. I do not advocate lying. But, if she just wants you to be happy for her, do your best.

 

[decodelighted]

Remember when you were able to talk her out of her crazy, unhealthy, awful, toxic relationship with that other guy before she MARRIED him?
Me neither.

 

[charbie]

The guy is a 38 yr old orthopaedic surgeon. Ill be honest, I workk with a lot of those typpes of guys, and they either want to play the field for life or settle down and have some stability at home. A 38 yr old normal, single, surgeon...sounds like a unicorn in all honesty.

Anyways, when someone bugs me about a relationship that's clearly not going anywhere, I tell them to either figure out where it is going, or just not talk to me about it. I can think of nothing worse than listening to someone gripe about a relationshipp that is a time suck.

I personally would recommend to her to see a therapist. She needs an unbiased person to listen to her and be that sounding board. She has some relationship issues running waaaaaaaay too deep that you'll never get through to her.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

People have to learn through their own mistakes. As difficult as it is the best thing you can do is be there for support if/when things go bad. There is nothing you can *do*, you can only *be* there for her.

 

[KaeKae]

He sounds....married.

This. Times one hundred.
I don't know about your relationship with your sister, but it sounds delicate. It also sounds like you should stay out of it, but be ready to be there for her, when she figures it out. I'm sorry you have to watch her go through this.

 

[iota15]

A 38 yr old normal, single, surgeon...sounds like a unicorn in all honesty.

muhahahaha... sounds about right.

Ditto on the married. And maybe a google search will confirm that.

I would stay out of it though. If they've broken up in as many times as they have in as many months, they're not going to last. Let her make the mistake. If anything, push her into making it more serious, like staying over for the weekend until he returns from work, etc. (who doesn't want to tie a surgeon down!). Then he'll back away and end it for both of them.

 

[lliang_chi]

Ally, from your post, I can tell you really care about your sister. However, sometimes you just need to let people learn from themselves. If she's not ready to listen to you, she's not ready to listen to you. Take the time to tell her "You're my sister and I'll always love you and I'm here for you."

My sis went through a 4 yr relationship that was no good for her. I knew she was not ready to listen to me, and nothing I could say would change her mind. My parents flat out told her, "Dump him, he's no good for you." That just made her dig her heels in more. I was pretty "put out" that she was dating him, but I knew she never wanted to marry him, so I let her figure it out on her own. Does she regret her four years? She does now. But now she's with a great guy, and is very happy. It'll happen for you. She just needs to be ready.

~LC

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

and perhaps let her know that you love her but it is emotionally upsetting to be living her relationship with this guy with her. perhaps limiting your conversations on the topic, changing to topic, or even just limiting how often you speak with her would help you to cope?

MoZo

Ditto the others re: staying out of it.. She will not listen, people rarely do And if it was me I would also do what MoZo suggests, if it really bothered me, because boundaries are important when you have a friend or family member who is self-destructive (I think it is somewhat self-destructive to choose relationships like this. A mild form, but not healthy).

 

[amc80]

And maybe a google search will confirm that.

That was my first thought as well. Usually on the websites for practices they have a little blurb about each member...including personal info.

 

[allycat0303]

Hey everyone,

Well. On everyone's advice, I did decide not to say anything. However, I decided to do a little *unicorn research* (I love that because it's so true). My friend is a resident at the same hospital as him, and apparently he has a common law spouse. My friend even provided me with a name. Of course she couldn't 100% confirm that they were still together, but as of 3 months ago, they were. The timing coincides with their relationship.

In any case, I had lunch with my sister after I learnt about this, and I didn't say anything to her. As all of you said, it's not as though I'm ever able to talk her out of anything. My only issues is that I think this is wrong on so many levels. Not only for my sister, but to the person he is with. It seems that by keeping quiet, I'm enabling him to cheat on his partner, and allowing it to continue. So all during lunch I felt really guilty. I tried to change the subject several times, but she kept coming back to it. The worst part, I'm not even sure what she would do with that information (the fact that he might be with someone). I know what I would do, but it's not predictable how someone will react. I've heard stories about people staying in affairs for a VERY long time.

Blah. I wish she would date nice guys. I even had a really terrific guy I wanted to set her up with, but I can't because of this evil guy.

 

[amc80]

Wow. Just wow. I'm not sure what to say. If I were in that situation and my sister/friend knew my boyfriend had a girlfriend/wife I would WANT to know. And I'd probably be pi$$ed if I found out later that she knew and didn't tell me. But that's my moral code, and your sister may have a different one. What a crappy situation for you to be in the middle of. Perhaps an anonymous letter to the common law wife is in order...

 

[Haven]

Ally--If I knew my sister was dating someone who *might* have a common law spouse, I'd tell her. This falls under the "information you should know" category, rather than the "offering my unsolicited opinion" category, as far as I'm concerned.
So sorry your sister's in this situation.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Ally--If I knew my sister was dating someone who *might* have a common law spouse, I'd tell her. This falls under the "information you should know" category, rather than the "offering my unsolicited opinion" category, as far as I'm concerned.
So sorry your sister's in this situation.

Yes, this. You cannot control what she does with the information, but I personally would pass it along.

I should add that I have been in a similar situation, not with a sibling, but with a very close family member, who I discovered was dating a man who was married. Oh yes, he was leaving her/unhappy etc etc etc Always excuses. It was very hard for me, because my morals tell me it is inexusable to date a married person, but my family member did not agree. Still, I made my views known, and refused to talk about my family member's relationship with this man from then on. Still, it was hard and hurtful all around. Hugs to you.

 

[allycat0303]

I don't know. I mean just from the scheduale point of view, I knew he was lying before I got confirmation (that's why I didn't ask before this.) To me it's a no brainer. She's told me in the past, he always shuts off his cell phone on Saturday and is unreachable until Monday AM. He said it was because he's in the hospital/OR. And she said to me "you know how it is." And I thought to myself, I DO know how it is. All surgeons are always madly texting away talking on their cell phone in hospital/OR. And NO orthopedic surgeone operates ALL weekend. They don't have OR time. It's impossible. So I knew he was off. It's just that my sister, who is in a non-surgical discipline, doesn't really know how it works, so she assumes he's telling the truth.

When my friend told me, I wasn't surprised at all. Of course he has someone else. My husband only needed her to tell the cell-phone thing once, and he said, "Well he's got another girlfriend" and that was months ago. The thing that's been bothering me for months is that fact that she's not cluing in on her own. I kind of feel she should be smart enough to put the pieces together herself.

So in many ways, I think she *does know* but doesn't *want to know*. I've heard of women who turn a blind eye, purposely to these things for the sake of keeping the relationship going. I don't think it's right, but I know that they are pretty resistent to change.

Dreamer: I agree it's just wrong. I don't want to be judgemental, but this girl might be going about her business not knowing that her partner is cheating on her, to me it's morally repulsive. They have a committement. I would hate, as a human being, to cause any women that kind of pain. I can't say if my sister feels the same way. And I wonder if, by pointing it out, she'll be angry.

 

[HollyS]

This is a sticky situation for sure.

When you talk to her - - and you HAVE to talk to her - - you must be very careful of how you approach this conversation. She's extremely vulnerable. That vulnerability is what drives her into his arms and keeps her on this merry-go-round.

She's feeling pressure. I know. I was an unattached, unmarried woman for the latter half of my twenties and the first half of my thirties. Society wants us paired off. It is expected.

To be a single man, everyone assumes you just haven't met the right gal. If you're a single woman, there is something wrong with you. Yes, that is exactly how most of the world out there treats single women of a certain age (26-death). I think it was deco that said a family member assumed she must be gay because she was still single in her thirties. It was just assumed that I was too picky, and more than one person thought that perhaps I was frigid! Yes, people will actually come out and say such things to your face when you're a single female. And thick skin won't grow overnight. Those barbs don't bounce off; they wound.

So, I imagine that instead of feeling beautiful, empowered, strong, and intelligent . . . she feels inadequate without a mate. She needs understanding and uplifting. And maybe some therapy. But, most of all, she needs you to love her without judging her. Tell her she's wonderful, and ask the right questions about this relationship of hers, and really listen. And then give loving advice.

 

[somethingshiny]

Ditto Haven. This is no longer just your opinion on the guy. You have proof that something is amiss. At this point, I'd tell her. If she doesn't listen, at least your conscience could be clear. I'd view it as enabling him to cheat as well.

 

[iheartscience]

I'd say something. I do remember your posts about how horrible your sister is to you, though, so it might be best if you weren't the direct messenger. Would someone else (maybe your husband if he gets along with her?) feel comfortable telling your sister this? It might be better for your relationship if she doesn't hear it directly from you.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

I had a situation once where I met a man at a club and he gave me his number (originally he wanted mine, but I would not give it so he gave me his). I called him a while later and a woman answered, so I left my number and asked her to tell him to call me. I though, roomate? Well 15 minutes later I got a call from the woman and it turned out she was his live-in girlfriend. I sighed and said, "Honey, I hate to tell you this, but your boyfriend is going to clubs and trying to pick up women." She said it had happened before! But she still lived with him. She wanted me to wait on the line so she could conference call with him, but I declined that experience My point is, she knew what was going on, and stayed anyways. Could be the same for the wife of this surgeon. That, I think, is not your business, as much as it might feel like it is your duty to tell the wife/gf.

What is your business, from my POV, is telling your sister what you know and then opting not to talk any more with her about a relationship that you don't approve of. I don't have siblings, so I can't relate to being in a relationship with someone who treats me poorly etc as it seems your sister does (don't know the history), but I would perhaps send an e-mail with the information. If she chose to get mad, that is not your responsibility, it is hers. If she chooses to cut you off or react in any number of inapporpriate ways, also not your responsibility. But I do think as someone who cares you should pass on that information. Because I think it will be a WHOLE lot worse is 6 months from now she finds out about it (clues in), and then perhaps learns that you and your husband knew about it all along and said nothing.

Better to face small potential wrath now than her justified anger later on if you keep it to yourself.

So I would tell her in a benign way, by e-mail or something, then leave it at that and not bring it up again. Duty done. And as I said, I also would not discuss the relationship with her since it is just enabling to help her keep the drama alive by rehashing things all the time. Some people really thrive on the uncertainy of these types of relationships. The anxiety feels like passion and excitement. You can't change them unfortunately. The same family member I mentioned earlier who dated the married man is the same way. I have basically given up trying to talk about relationships with her, though she is much older than your sister and a little wiser, maybe.

 

[lliang_chi]

Ally, you know your sister best in terms of how to address her. But I agree, I would definitely tell her. It could be a variety of reasons why she's still seeing him. 1) She honestly doesn't know. 2) She has a suspicion, but turns a blind eye. 3) Knows but is too fragile/insecure to get out of it herself.

The relationship I have with my sister, I'd say to her "You're my sister, and I love you, and want what's best for you. I have something to say and you're not going to like it. But I feel we need to talk about it, and this will be the last time I'll bring it up." Then I'd tell her. Then IMMEDIATELY reassure her that she's loved, that she's amazing, beautiful, smart, funny etc etc. And she deserves a man that will give her the moon.

So my method would be: love--> truth-->build her self-confience. But that's just what works for me and my sister.

Best of luck Ally. This is a tough spot, to be in.

ETA: this is different than the situation I described with my sister above. I see dating a married individual as self-destructive behavior. And if I care about my sibling I would intercede. BUT if it's just that my sibling needs to "learn the hard way," then I'll just be there for him/her when the time comes. Dunno if that makes any sense... It does in my head.

~LC

 

[allycat0303]

Holly, Truly, I feel like you have captured all the reasons I don't want to say anything. I know it's hard for her. Especially in an asian family, where it's so expected that she be married by now. My mother (who I adore) but truly just does not get IT!!! Gives her such a hard time. And unlike perhaps other ethnicities, Vietnamese mothers do NOT believe in being gentle. She's told my sister there is something wrong with her, that she's going to die an old maid, that she should stop dating hundreds of guys. She's also refused to meet any guy until the actual engagement because "it changes all the time so why should I care?" Nearly every weekend my sister calls me in tears because of something my mother said. I feel like if I tell her about this, she's REALLY going to feel like everyone is against her. As for therapy...I do think she needs it. I think she needs to workout whey she is drawn to these unstable, PAINFUL relationships. I don't know of any trauma that she has endured, but at times her self-confidence is strange. On one hand, she knows she's beautiful. She truly knows this with an absolute confidence I find staggerring. Except she is almost pathological in her insecurity that a man will leave her. She is particularly insecure about ex-girlfriends, she often wants to know every, single detail about a past relationship even though it's dead and buried. It seems to me that in the recent month, she showed some insight, she relized these issues on her own, but she hasn't found the source of all this. And she is no longer working on them because she got back together with P, so everything is rosy at the moment.

I just don't have enough insight on her to understand why she is the way she acts. Sometimes, it's walking around eggshells. I can feel the barrier go up when I say something non-commital about her relationship. I can feel she resents it. Even benign comments like, "oh he's working again this weekend" So I back down.

For now, I think I'm going to wait, just because I want to get a better feel for what's going to happen. I know it's not the most moral thing to do at the moment, but at the very best, I'll have to wait until she's receptive. They've just gotten back together after a week *break-up* everything might be *perfect for the moment*

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Ally You know your sister best and how to proceed, or course. If you wonder where her poor self-worth comes from, I think the answer is pretty clear in your description of how your mom talks to her about her worth and value, no? I study self-esteem and relationships, and though there are cultural differences in how parents talk to their children, for example cultural differences in focusing on strengths versus improving weaknesses, and even differences in how valued self-confidence is at all (most asian cultures value harmonious relationships and respect for elders over individualistic needs like "confidence", which I am sure you know)... despite all of that, there is no culture where one is immune to hearing from your mother that there is something wrong with you that scares men away. I cannot think of a scenerio where that is going to breed a healthy sense of one's own value in a child (and I don't mean ego here, or western self-aggrandizement, either, I mean quiet core security, the type that causes you to choose the right man and expect to be treated with respect). Unfortunately, insecurity is a self-fulfilling prophecy -- you don't think you are worth anything, so you settle for a man who treats you poorly, which confirms your view that you are worthless. And as her sister, you are relatively powerless to help her overcome her insecurity and the bad cycle of relationships is creates, unfortunately. That is a row that people have to hoe on their own, with help, if they are lucky, from a secure and loving partner. But I do think you need to separate out your sister's insecurity from her deserving of having basic information. I cannot think it is protecting her from anything to keep information from her that her boyfriend has a common-law spouse. You have a responsibility to love her and reflect back at her the valuable person that she is, but that is not accomplished by keeping secrets. On the other hand, she is unlikely to act on the information, so perhaps just sitting back is the best thing. It is a hard place to be in, watching someone you love choose a destructive path.