upgrade question

[icekid]

I am getting an upgraded diamond for my ring, as I decided that I really am not in love with J color. WF has told us that they will charge $50 to set the new stone, and possibly more money depending on if they have to do additional work with the prongs.

I have not heard about being charged separately to set an upgrade stone before. Anyone know if this typical?

 

[Kaleigh]

I haven''t heard of that either???

 

[belle]

i don't know what the policy is, but i'm wondering if there could be an extra charge because of the complexity? setting a larger stone into a custom pave' halo would not be the same as dropping a new stone into a 4prong solitaire.

 

[icekid]

... anyone else have experience w/ this?

 

[appletini]

If your upgrade is just color, but almost the same size, then it shouldn''t be an issue, if you were upgrading in size too, then the halo would make for some problems.

 

[pebbles]

I was charged $50 to reset my upgraded 1.04ct into the same 4 prong tiffany type setting (nothing fancy about it) that the .724ct was in.

 

[Demelza]

Are you planning to upgrade both color AND size? If both, I could understand that there might be a charge to rework the halo (to the extent that is possible). If it's just an upgrade in color, I don't know. Tell us more about the upgrade? What color will you go up to?

 

[icekid]

just upgrading the color, from J to E. The size is almost exactly the same- I think it would obviously be a LOT of work to change the halo to fit a larger stone.

And thanks for letting me know, pebbles

 

[Demelza]

Date: 1/13/2006 3:33:30 PM
Author: icekid
just upgrading the color, from J to E. The size is almost exactly the same- I think it would obviously be a LOT of work to change the halo to fit a larger stone.


And thanks for letting me know, pebbles

Just out of curiosity, would you be willing to share what the difference is? Assuming everything about the stone is almost the same, I''d be curious to know what a huge jump in color would do to the price. Hope that''s not too personal. If so, tell me to mind my own business

.

 

[Kaleigh]

If the size is relatively the same, why the charge for setting the stone?? I can see if you were going for a larger stone, that would of course involve some detailed work. I'm a little confused?? They made the custom setting for you, and the new stone is the same size just different color. Maybe John Q can explain??

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/13/2006 1:49:24 PM
Author: pebbles
I was charged $50 to reset my upgraded 1.04ct into the same 4 prong tiffany type setting (nothing fancy about it) that the .724ct was in.

maybe for a new head b/c of the bigger size stone?

 

[stretch4]

Well, my thoughts are that WF has to pay someone to set your new diamond just like they did when they set your original diamond. I mean, just because it is an upgrade doesn''t mean that the setter doesn''t need to get paid. But maybe I''m looking at this differently.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I was thinking along the same lines as Rascal. The first time I presume a setting and diamond were purchased. This time a setting is not being purchased, so it seems reasonable to me to charge for the labor to set the new stone.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 1/13/2006 7:33:17 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

I was thinking along the same lines as Rascal. The first time I presume a setting and diamond were purchased. This time a setting is not being purchased, so it seems reasonable to me to charge for the labor to set the new stone.

Rascal & DS are correct.

When you buy a ring the workmanship is covered, but when you buy an unset diamond there is work to be performed. It may be simple or it may be extensive, depending on the setting.

 

[Mara]

That is exactly what I thought as well...there is still work to be done in setting the stone, it''s not just dropping the stone in and that''s it...$50 sounds like the right price to me if even a bit low!

 

[MiniMouse]

Ladies, I do agree that there is work to be done and $50 is a very reasonable cost to do this, plus it''s good to have peace of mind for such a quality jeweler to do the work.

However, I''d personally be a little disappointed in WF if after buying an expensive diamond and setting in September 2005, I then chose to hand them quite a lot more money to change from a J to an E color diamond and in addition they wanted to charge me $50 for setting the new stone. If the diamond really is almost the same size then it''s not as though much work will be required. I would have thought WF could absorb such a small cost to a repeat customer who they are obviously profiting from anyway. It would be different if the ring needed extensive work or if the ring/stone was supplied by another vendor. However, icekid is a good Whiteflash customer, who is spending more money.

All said, given the choice, I''d still prefer Whiteflash to do the work on my ring, so I would cough up the reasonable $50.

 

[belle]

to me changing stone color is not an upgrade. an upgrade is going up at least in size. changing color or clarity and keeping the size the same is just a trade. i can''t imagine the cost of only a change in color being too much and to expect to pay absolutely nothing for labor or the responsiblity of insuring the stone is set safely seems extremely unfair in this case.

 

[rosy]

I think if a setting charge fee is standard for all jewelers whenever setting a stone is involved.

 

[stretch4]

I just don''t understand.....WF has to pay their setter to set the diamond regardless. It is Icekid''s choice to change her stone, regardless of whether you classify it as an "upgrade" or "trade." It appears to be WF''s policy to charge for the setting cost, and I personally think $50 is generous. Plus, as we have seen on this forum, companies get themselves into trouble when they start bending their rules.

 

[CourtHorn]

Why wouldn''t WF charge to set a new stone? Icekid made a purchase, and after the 30 days to return (or whatever it is) has gone by, decided to change the stone out. There is labor involved in this, therefore the customer must pay for it. Makes sense to me. I figured it would be more than 50 bucks, but maybe that is just me.

 

[MiniMouse]

Just checking back at Icekid''s ring, Icekid had a 3/4 carat J and changed to a similarly sized E stone. I guess the cost difference was probably fairly minimal, in which case I think Whiteflash are reasonable in charging $50 for setting, which is very low compared to some other vendors. I remember a jeweler telling me they charge $100 per carat to set a stone.

 

[icekid]

?????? I was just curious... I'd never heard of it spoken about before, so I asked.

And I'm sorry I don't meet your upgrade criteria, belle. I don't recall asking for your definition of "upgrade" though

No, they don't stand to make a lot of money on me simply getting a higher color grade stone. But their policy certainly did not preclude me from doing so. I doubt that most of these companies make as much money on upgrades, compared to the original purchase. So why do they do it? To keep people buying from their company; to keep up with competitors, etc etc etc.

And I see that they've now amended their policy to say that trading up means you must increase at least "2 out of 3" categories (size, clarity, color). Which would mean, I assume, Mara won't be able to get another J, SI2?

rascal- who is asking WF to bend their rules? I have not the slightest idea as to what you might be referring to.

 

[MiniMouse]

style="WIDTH: 98.54%; HEIGHT: 213px">Date: 1/15/2006 9:39:37 AM
Author: icekid
?????? I was just curious... I''d never heard of it spoken about before, so I asked.

And I''m sorry I don''t meet your upgrade criteria, belle. I don''t recall asking for your definition of ''upgrade'' though

No, they don''t stand to make a lot of money on me simply getting a higher color grade stone. But their policy certainly did not preclude me from doing so. I doubt that most of these companies make as much money on upgrades, compared to the original purchase. So why do they do it? To keep people buying from their company; to keep up with competitors, etc etc etc.

And I see that they''ve now amended their policy to say that trading up means you must increase at least ''2 out of 3'' categories (size, clarity, color). Which would mean, I assume, Mara won''t be able to get another J, SI2?

rascal- who is asking WF to bend their rules? I have not the slightest idea as to what you might be referring to.

Icekid, you are right, it appears that Whiteflash have now made a change to their upgrade policy, their website now states: Trade ''up'' implies moving ''up'' in at least 2 of 3 criteria: Carat weight (next size category), Color and Clarity. I hope this is only applicable to NEW customers and not existing customers who bought on the basis of their policy prior to this addition. I''d appreciate John clarifying the position. I''d also appreciate knowing what they mean by ''next size category''? Hmmmm...... at the moment I''m very disturbed by the change of policy.

 

[stretch4]

Date: 1/15/2006 9:39:37 AM
Author: icekid
rascal- who is asking WF to bend their rules? I have not the slightest idea as to what you might be referring to.

I was just referring to the sentiment of some members here who say you should not be charged. John said the rule in this case is to charge, so if they were to not charge you, that would be bending the rules.

 

[belle]

Date: 1/15/2006 9:39:37 AM
Author: icekid
?????? I was just curious... I'd never heard of it spoken about before, so I asked.

And I'm sorry I don't meet your upgrade criteria, belle. I don't recall asking for your definition of 'upgrade' though

No, they don't stand to make a lot of money on me simply getting a higher color grade stone. But their policy certainly did not preclude me from doing so. I doubt that most of these companies make as much money on upgrades, compared to the original purchase. So why do they do it? To keep people buying from their company; to keep up with competitors, etc etc etc.

And I see that they've now amended their policy to say that trading up means you must increase at least '2 out of 3' categories (size, clarity, color). Which would mean, I assume, Mara won't be able to get another J, SI2?

rascal- who is asking WF to bend their rules? I have not the slightest idea as to what you might be referring to.

don't be sorry icekid. i know you didn't ask for my definition of 'upgrade' i was just stating my views on what an upgrade was because i found your use of it here misleading. when you said you were 'upgrading' i think many of us assumed that you were getting a larger diamond, not just trading your current one for a different color. whether you think it is pertinent or not, there is a huge difference in spending several thousand on a larger diamond as opposed to maybe a couple of hundred for a different color. no one is saying you can't trade, just that there may be a reasonable fee involved for setting your stone. i wouldn't expect a jeweler to reset my earrings for free just because i decided to change the color.

whatever the policy may state, i am quite sure mara will still be upgrading her 1.6 for a new 2.3. even if she has to pay a small setting fee.

 

[icekid]

rascal- ahh, I see. Well, I obviously never asked for any favors. I was simply asking what their policy is.

belle- I don''t see any reason that upgrade implies larger and I don''t think calling a color change an upgrade misleading either. Neither you nor anyone else will dictate what I value in a diamond, whether it is size, color, cut or anything else that I deem important to me. Should I decide to get a D/IF b/c I want a "perfect" diamond but do not want to go larger, then I don’t see why that would not qualify as an upgrade.

In addition, I am not doing anything outside of WF''s stated policy. When you purchase from WF, you are paying into their upgrade policy. All of their customers pay for the upgrade policy, whether they ever get a new diamond or not. WF is obviously not just eating the cost of the upgrade scheme. It’s paid for through higher prices for each diamond they sell. And no, I do not think there is a difference in going from 1 ct to 2 ct, UNLESS it is stated in their policy, which it is not.

I don’t really understand what mara paying a setting fee has to do with the issue at hand, however. If you’d like to call me cheap, why don’t you call me cheap instead of implying it with an unrelated comment? I will not throw away $50 needlessly during a time in my life when we are saving money for a house, a wedding, and paying 40 grand per yr in my tuition. If that makes me cheap, then so be it. HOWEVER, if it is their policy to charge a setting fee on upgrades, I don’t have a problem with that either. Thus, I asked if it was typical.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Apologies for any worry. The policy clarification is a work in progress, and our web people put it up without it being final.

Here is the situation:

When we perform a trade up the returned diamond is sent back to the lab for re-grading and a new document. There are shipping and insurance costs in addition to the re-grading charge. There are also labor costs for setting the new diamond as discussed. All costs vary: For a large diamond in an intricate setting the shipping/insurance re-grading and labor is more than a small diamond in a 4 prong mounting with a reusable head.

We’ve done many trade ups with pleasure and it’s our intent to continue as before, but we may need to clarify trade up. Icekid’s is the first request we’ve had to trade for smaller size and lesser clarity. It illustrates that we have been remiss in not clarifying what trading ‘up’ means to our company: If the price difference is so small that we lose money with associated costs it’s not sound business. Even a lateral trade makes us diamond renters, not sellers. This is why other companies have a ‘minimum’ trade up ($1000 more, or a large percentage of the purchase price), or tell customers they may only trade up once, or that they must wait a year to do so.

We would prefer not to do this. We want the policy to remain as it has been but also want to prevent possible abuse of the system.

The ''2 of 3 criteria'' is not sound for reasons cited in this thread, and will not stand (sorry for any worry).
We considered saying ‘case by case basis,’ but that sounds ominous.

This whole situation is positive as it’s bringing out good discussion here. We’re watching the thread with interest as we deliberate how to communicate the spirit of trading ‘up’ so that it is mutually beneficial.

 

[belle]

Date: 1/15/2006 2:50:36 PM
Author: icekid


belle- I don''t see any reason that upgrade implies larger and I don''t think calling a color change an upgrade misleading either. Neither you nor anyone else will dictate what I value in a diamond, whether it is size, color, cut or anything else that I deem important to me. Should I decide to get a D/IF b/c I want a ''perfect'' diamond but do not want to go larger, then I don’t see why that would not qualify as an upgrade.

your view of upgrade is obviously different. i wasn''t arguing that or who was right or wrong. i was just stating what my idea of an upgrade was and why there may have been confusion.

Date: 1/15/2006 2:50:36 PM
Author: icekid

In addition, I am not doing anything outside of WF''s stated policy. When you purchase from WF, you are paying into their upgrade policy. All of their customers pay for the upgrade policy, whether they ever get a new diamond or not. WF is obviously not just eating the cost of the upgrade scheme. It’s paid for through higher prices for each diamond they sell. And no, I do not think there is a difference in going from 1 ct to 2 ct, UNLESS it is stated in their policy, which it is not.

i guarantee i am not paying for your ''upgrade'' i don''t question what you value in a diamond, but i am not going to pay for you to change your mind when you decide you don''t like the color of your stone every 4months. if you think there is not a difference in trading color and going from 1ct. to 2ct. in size, you are delusional. there is about $15,000-$20,000 difference. what was the difference in your ''upgrade''?

Date: 1/15/2006 2:50:36 PM
Author: icekid

I don’t really understand what mara paying a setting fee has to do with the issue at hand, however. If you’d like to call me cheap, why don’t you call me cheap instead of implying it with an unrelated comment? I will not throw away $50 needlessly during a time in my life when we are saving money for a house, a wedding, and paying 40 grand per yr in my tuition. If that makes me cheap, then so be it. HOWEVER, if it is their policy to charge a setting fee on upgrades, I don’t have a problem with that either. Thus, I asked if it was typical.

in your previous post you said that mara couldn''t get her upgrade because of their policy. i was saying that mara, just like you, would be getting her upgrade. the policy doesn''t say you can''t get an upgrade, but if the ''upgrade'' isn''t enough to cover certain costs, there may be a small fee involved.

i''m not sure why you''re so defensive on this. my only guess is that you feel you should have been able to trade your stone without any fee involved.

 

[Mara]

regardless of whatever else has been said, i do agree that paying a setting fee of $50 or something sounds reasonable regardless of whether the uprgrade was $100 difference or $2000 difference. they still DO have to pay their setter. the upgrade policy has to do with the stone and not any other associated costs in my opinion. even if a diamond is ''almost the same size'' as a previous one or a new one, there still need to be basic adjustments made for ANY mm differences so that the new stone is entirely secure in the head. so even if they did not have to pay a setter, then 30 minutes or an hour of the labor of removing and setting a new stone and checking it with QC to ensure it''s tight etc for me would be worth $50 or $100. just my thoughts on paying a re-setting fee.

regarding the modifications to the upgrade policy, i kind of did have a quick moment of panic when i saw the 2 out of 3 thing because what if I want to stick with J SI2 forever? for the next 3 upgrades? of course i will be upgrading size hopefully large amounts

, but that would mean that eventually i''d be forced to get an I or a VS to continue to upgrade which not be feasible necessarily as something i''d even WANT to do. i''d hate to be forced to get a higher color or clarity just to continue to upgrade. what if my upgrade was $5k diff because of size, then HAVING to go up to an I or something would raise that even more!

part of why i have loved WF''s policy is because it is so forgiving, i think in the past it was something like $1 more than the trade-in value or something? i hate when jewelers make you upgrade and pay a certain amount over or something, because what if you find a stone that fits your bill perfectly but does not fit that criteria? sometimes it''s hard to find the stone that works, nevermind trying to make sure it fits a certain dollar amount or criteria. so do you have to pay more to make it meet that? it''s such a gray area. but yes the jewelers in general cannot be expected to continue to eat upgrade costs for those who want a smaller sized higher color or a larger sized but maybe lower color stone (aka if i ever wanted to go to a K from a J then i''d be upset to know that it wasn''t possible to go backwards even if i was going to spend a few thousand).

to WF i would almost say, figure out how much your costs are when associated with upgrades, what fixed costs factor in, aka re-grading and shipping of the stone or similar, the labor in inspecting the stone to make sure that it''s kosher and in perfect condition for the upgrade etc etc and then use that number to figure out what your $$ amount is in feeling like you guys could still have a GOOD upgrade policy without quantifying it with a bunch of requirements. case by case to me sounds reasonable or even $500 or more sounds reasonable too. no one expects WF to operate with no profit margins, but i think there would be a happy medium where people don''t feel like the policy is TOO strict but WF doesn''t feel like people take advantage of it either. (not that anyone is doing that, just saying from a ''perception'' point of view).

tough call to really say! personally i liked it the way it was before but i can understand that WF does not want it to eat away at their business margins over time.

 

[msdarlinjoy]

Hi to everyone!

This is a very interesting thread. I personally think that it is typical for any jeweler to ask a reasonable fee to change out a stone in a setting regardless if you bought the setting, and or stone from them.

I love analogies. It is just like I bought a new dishwasher, it came with a 30 day exchange/refund policy generous) and a 12 month warranty on the parts/labor. It broke down 13 months after I got it.

I obviously needed it to work again, so I called the repairman. He said that he charged a flat rate of $29.99 to come out and take a look at it to determine what was wrong. After 1 1/2 hours worth of disassembling the dishwasher, and poking around, he came to me and said ... It will cost you $$$ to fix.

I figured that I could get another one (Brand new) on sale for relatively the same price. I still had to pay him to come out and take a look. Sure, If I had him fix it, he would have applied the $29.99 into fixing it, the dishwasher at that point was disassembled and ready to put in a new part and all.

I personally think $50.00 is reasonable considering what they actually have to do in order to take back the stone. I never really thought about "what happens" when they take the stone back, and now it all makes some sense.

As far as WF is concerned, I am sure that they will make things right, and eventually clarify what the parameters are going to be re: trade-up.

Have a Happy day!