Tiffany grades their own diamonds? No AGS or GIA????

[MidwestDiamondHunter]

Okay, so I just called the local Tiffany store. I inquired about what data they could provide me such as a Sarin or Idealscope and completely avoided the question telling me that you receive a bunch of stuff like that AFTER you make your purchase.

I then asked her if their stones are certified by GIA or AGS. She says neither! She told me Tiffany Stones are graded by Tiffany? So what''s up with that? And what quality of AGS could I compare it to? I would hope it would be an AGS000 quality!

 

[JulieN]

They have proportions, and will give them to you.

 

[neatfreak]

If you're buying from Tiffany you just basically are buying for the setting quality and the assurance that your diamond WILL be a pretty nice one compared to the general marketplace. They are not known for providing other information on their stones and you would be hard pressed to get Tiff's to offer you the same things (idealscopes, asets, sarins, etc.) that the PS vendors will. Best you can do is ask for the #'s and run them through the HCA, etc. yourself.

Their older stones are certified, now they do everything in house.

If you want the "perfect" diamond, I actually would suggest you go elsewhere.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 5/1/2007 6:44:11 PM
Author:MidwestDiamondHunter

I then asked her if their stones are certified by GIA or AGS. She says neither! She told me Tiffany Stones are graded by Tiffany? So what''s up with that? And what quality of AGS could I compare it to? I would hope it would be an AGS000 quality!

Tiffany''s grading is actually pretty good in comparison to GIA and AGS color and clarity grading.

It''s when you begin to get into cut grading quality that Tiffany''s is lacking a bit. AGS is the best way to go, with GIA and then Tiffany''s queing up in line behind them.

All and all though, Tiffany''s is doing a not half bad job in putting out nice diamonds to the public.

 

[MidwestDiamondHunter]

Thanks for the info... I did a search (which I should have done to begin with) and found many answers to my question.

I was actually trying to help my brother out who is shopping for a ring also, but his girlfriend comes from a well-off family and she needs the Tiffany name to be mind-clean. I hope he gets on here like I told him too and learns a bit.... The ring he''s looking at at Tiffany''s is 20k and I know he could get substantially more for 20k if he shopped at one of the reputable dealers listed on whiteflash.

oh well....

 

[mrssalvo]

tell him to check out signedpieces.com. they sell secondhand tiffany rings for a substantial savings and that way you can get the best of both worlds, the tiffany name/box plus saving $...

 

[oldminer]

Tiffany did spend millions per year with GIA and with their own grading staff. They still had many problems with their perception of GIA-GTL accuracy although the entire issue of accuracy at the level we are speaking of is very subjective, not an "error", but frequent differences of opinion are common.

With their repuation at stake, Tiffany took a decision, I suppose, to do their own grading with the degree of accuracy that they perceive to be equal to or better than GIA. The data we found seemed to indicate Tiffany grades their own diamonds harshly or strictly. This costs them millions of lost dollars per year, but probably also results in virtually no complaints of mis-grading from any customers. Its a trade-off that only a Tiffany & Co could decide to make. Not every firm can throw millions of dollars away in conservative grading and justify it by knowing that they are building their brand name in the process. Most brand names are simply not worth what the Tiffany name is worth.

Every grader makes small errors in grading from time to time. Color and clarity remain primarily subjective grades and borderline cases are difficult to call. If I was buying a diamond, I''d always tend to be more conservative than if I was offering it for sale. Within the hoenst range of subjectivity lies the true grade and it is elusive. If a dishonest person or lab is offered the chance to give their opinion, the opinion is probably not worth the trouble. When a very fine firm offers a knowledgeable opinion, it is possible to be as good as or even better for the consumer than a GIA or AGS grade. Its food for thought.

 

[Nicrez]

I believe the lab has gone through some major changes within the past few years at Tiffany & Co. Every year they are more advanced and stricter on their stones, sometimes more so than GIA. From what I have seen, GIA seems more lenient in color.

Richard and David are absolutely right. From the feedback of the industry, TCO''s lab has severly limited the "dogs" from inventory, and have even gone so far as recutting stones in old inventory to meet the new stardards of the industry. Todays consumers are demanding more numbers than ever to make a decision and are more savvy than last decade''s consumers. Will they ever sell H&A type stones? Who knows, but frankly, you can always rest assured that the stones they sell are certainly top of the market.

For a PS shopper, they may not favor the diamonds, as they are not cut to their standard, so it is a different market entirely. Here they prefer H&Q cut and size over color and clarity. TCO grades to a level of cut, color and clarity that still remains high, but they try to balance all of the C''s without specializing in any one above the other, but keeping them all at a very high level for a luxury market. I would venture to say that their cuts, and clarities are better than the other competing luxury retailers.

As for the bells and whistles of tests, they do provide Sarin information if asked, I believe, certainly a plot for stones that are above 1ct. They do not have other tests and machines, as the PS vendors do, because that is not their market, nor do they want that to be. Consider how many diamonds a day are sold in their stores in the US and abroad. It makes no financial sense to be THAT exacting when the difference is not needed, nor is it profitable. I would say perhaps 1/10,000 Tifany clients might even know what that would be. After rejecting for color, clarity and cut to the current standard, to cut a stone to the top 10% of the market (at the leve that they supply to the market) would just be an excerise in profit loss and pointlessness.

Their clients are happy with their stones, the industry is happy with their grading lab, so if you want a certain type of precision diamond and no brand name band and design, shop where the pickings are greater, PS!

 

[Nicrez]

Just a note:

As the industry for graders is quite small, know that MANY veteran GIA graders go private to other companies willing to pay more. GIA is non-profit, so it also stands to reason that a grader is not paid half as much as a private grader in some labs in house. The talent and skill that people develop at GIA is very often transferred to new labs, so as a whole, I feel the industry that can afford the good graders tends to get a better assortment of talent.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 5/2/2007 9:16:46 AM
Author: MidwestDiamondHunter
his girlfriend comes from a well-off family and she needs the Tiffany name to be mind-clean.

hmmmmm .... are they well-off AND sophisticated? If so, then she''d probably be all squeaky "mind-clean" with Harry Winston or Neil Lane or Cartier as well.

Of course, I say this while HAUNTING Tiffany''s for my re-polished watch & future Lucida pendant!

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 5/2/2007 11:34:43 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 5/2/2007 9:16:46 AM
Author: MidwestDiamondHunter
his girlfriend comes from a well-off family and she needs the Tiffany name to be mind-clean.

hmmmmm .... are they well-off AND sophisticated? If so, then she''d probably be all squeaky ''mind-clean'' with Harry Winston or Neil Lane or Cartier as well.

Of course, I say this while HAUNTING Tiffany''s for my re-polished watch & future Lucida pendant!

You WILL be sophisticated with a Lucida pendant though....

 

[winternight]

Date: 5/2/2007 12:19:27 PM
Author: Nicrez

Date: 5/2/2007 11:34:43 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 5/2/2007 9:16:46 AM
Author: MidwestDiamondHunter
his girlfriend comes from a well-off family and she needs the Tiffany name to be mind-clean.

hmmmmm .... are they well-off AND sophisticated? If so, then she''d probably be all squeaky ''mind-clean'' with Harry Winston or Neil Lane or Cartier as well.

Of course, I say this while HAUNTING Tiffany''s for my re-polished watch & future Lucida pendant!

You WILL be sophisticated with a Lucida pendant though....

Love that pendant - I''m going to have to try it on next time I''m in Tiffany''s.

 

[He Scores]

I think Tiffany will give you some of the Sarin information. This past year a lady in the trade was shopping for diamonds and had narrowed her selection down to three...two from Tiffany and one from another source. She called me and provided some of the Sarin data for me to analize using my cut scoring system. When I gave her the "extrapolated" scores (since the data was incomplete), she used the highest score to make her decision......"you know...that was the one I thought was prettiest."

Tiffany has very high standards with regard to their grading of stones. Cut however, seems to be the weakest of their areas but not to the point where they don''t sell very nicely made stones.

Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 5/3/2007 5:29:21 AM
Author: He Scores

Tiffany has very high standards with regard to their grading of stones. Cut however, seems to be the weakest of their areas but not to the point where they don't sell very nicely made stones.

Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

It's no surprise Bill. Their graders would be 90% GIA trained, and so they should get the same results as GIA, but they answer to the brand managers - not keeping the customers happy like labs must do.
And since GIA are weak on cut grading - surely it would be exceptional if Tiffany were otherwise?

About 1/2 the diamonds I have looked at with an ideal-scope in Tiffany stores have too much leakage for me. But they have very good symmetry and seem to be well polished - and after all that is what most GIA trained people use as a criteria for good make

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 5/3/2007 7:33:04 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 5/3/2007 5:29:21 AM
Author: He Scores

Tiffany has very high standards with regard to their grading of stones. Cut however, seems to be the weakest of their areas but not to the point where they don''t sell very nicely made stones.

Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

It''s no surprise Bill. Their graders would be 90% GIA trained, and so they should get the same results as GIA, but they answer to the brand managers - not keeping the customers happy like labs must do.
And since GIA are weak on cut grading - surely it would be exceptional if Tiffany were otherwise?

About 1/2 the diamonds I have looked at with an ideal-scope in Tiffany stores have too much leakage for me. But they have very good symmetry and seem to be well polished - and after all that is what most GIA trained people use as a criteria for good make

Gary, I agree with you 100%. I would say that is how they seem to grade. They do have broader standards of cut for stones, but consider that they need to supply an extremely large diamond audience domestically and internationally. But out of all the cuts, the round brialliants seem to have the tightest standards, and where would their credibility be if those stones that are most popular are not cut above the standard of the market. If I can walk into a Fortunoff and find better stones, why get it at T&Co? Even brand name will not then be enough, right?

Where I disagree is if they should really be persuing a higher cut standard to the level of PS. To me speciality cuts are meant for smaller retailers. In essence if Tiffany & Co were to repair the stones that came in as acceptable, but tightened the standards to a PS level, then not only would they have to employ more polishers and cutters, but would spend time repairing, retagging, reprocessing and production would suffer due to time wasted going backward and not producing NEW stones for the growing need. They are doing quite well according to the market, and expanding. To make their stones to a higher cut quality would be too expensive to no longer be profitable. I would say for what they are trying to achieve they have a pretty good standard that is visually obvious, without sacrificing their profitability and accountability to their stockholders.

 

[He Scores]

Nicrez...I think you have a firm grasp on reality. I really do. Tiffany as a diamond consumer and seller is huge. They go through a tremendous amount of diamonds and I don''t think we can really understand the economy of that.

I agree with those of you who feel they look at symetry over other cut aspects of the diamond.

Bill