So, what kind of cut is done for Pave diamonds?

Some information on single cuts:
http://www.artofplatinum.com/glossary/singlecut.htm

Single cuts are best for pave work as they sparkle more.  A full cut melee will look too busy in that tiny size.  Single cuts in pave are essentially RBs with less faceting.

Some pave are single cut, some are brilliant cut.

I was thinking about using pave on a RHR and noticed that if I wanted single cut, i had to request it. It seems that most jewelers use brilliant.

Thanks! Always good for info, you guys...so great.

Most jewelers use brilliant cut. I chose to use single cuts after seeing them in person. The sparkles just seemed a little bigger, which I thought would match well to the flashes of my cushion. I think the reason is the table is significantly larger (since they only have 8 facets). The single cuts were also more expensive ($1000/ct v. $1500/ct).

The same light return rules are very important.

Here is a little box with 45 full cuts on the top and the lower left, and single cuts above.

The full cuts are from our regular stock which are all selected (usually 80% rejection) with an ideal-scope. Note the overall brightness. (The single cuts we stock for repair replacements as a client service, so they are ''as they are'').

Note the lower photo - i took this during a discussion with Peter Yantzer who is interested in this topic also (lab Director at AGS). The stones were in the bottom of my wheely travel bag which was partly closed - with a single halogen about 10 feet 3M above. Note the single cuts show a lot more fire at about 1.2M to the camera.

Attachments

single cut top full cut bottom.JPG (40.45 KiB) Viewed 569 times

Date: 5/7/2008 6:03:02 PM
Author: scarlet16
Most jewelers use brilliant cut. I chose to use single cuts after seeing them in person. The sparkles just seemed a little bigger, which I thought would match well to the flashes of my cushion. I think the reason is the table is significantly larger (since they only have 8 facets). The single cuts were also more expensive ($1000/ct v. $1500/ct).

really? you''d think it would be the other way around...hmm.

Date: 5/7/2008 6:25:50 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
The same light return rules are very important.


Here is a little box with 45 full cuts on the top and the lower left, and single cuts above.


The full cuts are from our regular stock which are all selected (usually 80% rejection) with an ideal-scope. Note the overall brightness. (The single cuts we stock for repair replacements as a client service, so they are 'as they are').


Note the lower photo - i took this during a discussion with Peter Yantzer who is interested in this topic also (lab Director at AGS). The stones were in the bottom of my wheely travel bag which was partly closed - with a single halogen about 10 feet 3M above. Note the single cuts show a lot more fire at about 1.2M to the camera.

WOW Gary - thanks for that info! Now I wonder what I have in MY ring...full cut or RB's. No way to tell, they're so small! It's funny how these follow opposite brilliance rules when small, as compared to larger sizes, where RB is king.

ETA: Silly me - I bet it says in my appraisal.

That is something I never thought of before...thanks ladies!

My halo is single cuts and they rock! I can totally tell the difference.

My eternity bands will be full cut though. I''ll eventually be able to get single cut ones, but not for a while.

seems weird to me that single cuts, with less facets (=less work?) would cost more than RB''s with more...

Date: 5/7/2008 7:41:31 PM
Author: tberube
seems weird to me that single cuts, with less facets (=less work?) would cost more than RB''s with more...

I have no idea if this is true or not but I wonder if it''s a matter of supply and demand. Fewer people cut the single cuts and therefore there are less available. Leon''s assistant mentioned that sometimes it takes 1-2 weeks to get them from his supplier in Belgium.

Date: 5/7/2008 5:33:06 PM
Author: Chrono
Some information on single cuts:
http://www.artofplatinum.com/glossary/singlecut.htm

Single cuts are best for pave work as they sparkle more. A full cut melee will look too busy in that tiny size. Single cuts in pave are essentially RBs with less faceting.

Unless you use some OMC melee''s...., great sparkle factor!

Attachments

OMCPave.JPG (61.52 KiB) Viewed 557 times

Date: 5/7/2008 7:44:13 PM
Author: scarlet16

Date: 5/7/2008 7:41:31 PM
Author: tberube
seems weird to me that single cuts, with less facets (=less work?) would cost more than RB's with more...

I have no idea if this is true or not but I wonder if it's a matter of supply and demand. Fewer people cut the single cuts and therefore there are less available. Leon's assistant mentioned that sometimes it takes 1-2 weeks to get them from his supplier in Belgium.

A supply and demand issue - so much demand for full cuts - single cuts are a nuiscance for most dealers.

It is also easier to see cutting errors in full cuts
Edit - easier to see cutting errors in single cuts

*stone rookie here, so be gentle*

So, for someone considering micro pave; would the full vs. single not be a concern then? Or would they still use full cuts, just smaller..


(specifically im looking at WF, who states they use little ACA''s for their melee)
-So would these be considered single cuts?

Date: 5/8/2008 2:39:36 AM
Author: stryeyes102
*stone rookie here, so be gentle*

So, for someone considering micro pave; would the full vs. single not be a concern then? Or would they still use full cuts, just smaller..


(specifically im looking at WF, who states they use little ACA''s for their melee)
-So would these be considered single cuts?

ACA''s are all full cuts

for those that missed my lesson on virtual facets see here:
http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/my-asscher-looks-so-cool-in-low-light-anyone-else-t83928.html
For those that read it here is why single cuts have larger flashes.
Compare the virtual facet sizes.

full cut first:

Attachments

fullcutvirtualfacets.jpg (25.84 KiB) Viewed 557 times

single cut

While this single cut combo only rates 93% of the light return of the full cut above it will appear brighter because of the larger flashes/virtual facets in small sizes.

Attachments

singlecutvirtualfacets.jpg (20.89 KiB) Viewed 557 times

Close up the single cuts can look Ok, but from further away the chance of seeing a flash becomes very small.

I think I am converting to being a full cut fan.
The DETAS image shows that the light return Storm mentioned is alive and well

Attachments

Single cut 1mm DETAS.JPG (91.22 KiB) Viewed 569 times

Garry I agree 1 single cut by itself isnt that great but when you have a number of them the odds of seeing the fewer but larger brighter flashes goes way up.
Im a little biased too as I love the look of single cut melee.

Date: 5/8/2008 4:37:13 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Close up the single cuts can look Ok, but from further away the chance of seeing a flash becomes very small.


I think I am converting to being a full cut fan.

The DETAS image shows that the light return Storm mentioned is alive and well

So, which do you prefer, Gary?

Date: 5/8/2008 4:03:17 AM
Author: strmrdr
for those that missed my lesson on virtual facets see here:

http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/my-asscher-looks-so-cool-in-low-light-anyone-else-t83928.html

For those that read it here is why single cuts have larger flashes.

Compare the virtual facet sizes.


full cut first:

I definitely saw your lesson! And it all makes sense...it''s just ironic that one would prefer more facets for large diamonds, then switch to less facets for melee. I get why, I suppose, but still.

Thanks again, storm, for your infinite knowledge!

Date: 5/7/2008 6:25:50 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
The same light return rules are very important.


Here is a little box with 45 full cuts on the top and the lower left, and single cuts above.


The full cuts are from our regular stock which are all selected (usually 80% rejection) with an ideal-scope. Note the overall brightness. (The single cuts we stock for repair replacements as a client service, so they are ''as they are'').


Note the lower photo - i took this during a discussion with Peter Yantzer who is interested in this topic also (lab Director at AGS). The stones were in the bottom of my wheely travel bag which was partly closed - with a single halogen about 10 feet 3M above. Note the single cuts show a lot more fire at about 1.2M to the camera.

Gary - what was the weight on those little rocks?

Date: 5/8/2008 8:47:35 AM
Author: tberube


I definitely saw your lesson! And it all makes sense...it's just ironic that one would prefer more facets for large diamonds, then switch to less facets for melee. I get why, I suppose, but still.

Thanks again, storm, for your infinite knowledge!

Part of the reason single cuts work well for melee with larger center stones in my opinion is that the virtual facet size more closely matches the small virtual facets of the larger stone so they tend to fire off at around the same time where full cut melee the virtual facets are so much smaller that they fire out of sync with the center stone.
A princess or a crushed ice radiant would work better with full cut melee for the same reason.

Date: 5/8/2008 3:35:41 PM
Author: strmrdr
Part of the reason single cuts work well for melee with larger center stones in my opinion is that the virtual facet size more closely matches the small virtual facets of the larger stone so they tend to fire off at around the same time where full cut melee the virtual facets are so much smaller that they fire out of sync with the center stone.
A princess or a crushed ice radiant would work better with full cut melee for the same reason.

This is really interesting, Storm, thanks! 

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. In very bright overhead sun, my AGS-0 2.36 RB goes pretty dark and (dare I say!) *murky* (but with large, bold flashes of fire), while my melee (<.02 ACAs) go crazy beautiful, sparkling and twinkling like bright, colorful little disco balls. 

So, hypothetically speaking, of course   (since I am NOT getting a re-set any time soon!), single cut melee would give me an entirely different look in that type of lighting environment? 

Date: 5/7/2008 6:25:50 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
The same light return rules are very important.

Here is a little box with 45 full cuts on the top and the lower left, and single cuts above.

The full cuts are from our regular stock which are all selected (usually 80% rejection) with an ideal-scope. Note the overall brightness. (The single cuts we stock for repair replacements as a client service, so they are ''as they are'').

Note the lower photo - i took this during a discussion with Peter Yantzer who is interested in this topic also (lab Director at AGS). The stones were in the bottom of my wheely travel bag which was partly closed - with a single halogen about 10 feet 3M above. Note the single cuts show a lot more fire at about 1.2M to the camera.

Sir Garry,
As usual, you lost me with your Aussie-speak!!!        
Exactly WHICH are WHICH again?!    

Thanks!
Lynn

Which type of melee would look best with an approximately 3/4ct Asscher Cut ------- Single Cut or RB?

Date: 5/8/2008 6:07:15 PM
Author: JDam
Which type of melee would look best with an approximately 3/4ct Asscher Cut ------- Single Cut or RB?

Single cuts and asschers rock together.

Date: 5/8/2008 5:17:34 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 5/8/2008 3:35:41 PM
Author: strmrdr
Part of the reason single cuts work well for melee with larger center stones in my opinion is that the virtual facet size more closely matches the small virtual facets of the larger stone so they tend to fire off at around the same time where full cut melee the virtual facets are so much smaller that they fire out of sync with the center stone.
A princess or a crushed ice radiant would work better with full cut melee for the same reason.

This is really interesting, Storm, thanks!

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. In very bright overhead sun, my AGS-0 2.36 RB goes pretty dark and (dare I say!) *murky* (but with large, bold flashes of fire), while my melee (&lt;.02 ACAs) go crazy beautiful, sparkling and twinkling like bright, colorful little disco balls.

So, hypothetically speaking, of course (since I am NOT getting a re-set any time soon!), single cut melee would give me an entirely different look in that type of lighting environment?

You would get bolder flashes off the single cut.
Yes it would be a different look.
Cant say however if you would like it better.
 

that does bring up a huge point,
I can tell you how, why, and when they look different but I can not tell you which look you would prefer.