Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ cast

[MyDiamondSparkles]

I've ton a ton of reading on this right here on Pricescope--a big thank you for those of you who share your knowledge. Would you all be willing to give me a bit of advice?

I bought a diamond a few months ago and have had a dickens of a time trying to figure out how to set it. I thought I would do a total custom, but honestly I think I'm going to spare myself the possible headache as I just don't feel I know enough about ring design to get it right and I'd be devastated to get it wrong.

I have a 4.46 carat OMC. I thought I would go with a solitaire with a blingy eternity, however I am now leaning towards a delicate halo. I am looking at both of these:

http://www.victorcanera.com/the-emilya-halo-solitaire-with-antique-cushion.html

or

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Other/Halos/The-Kylie-Halo-Signature/20419651_vm6bsL#!i=1615977127&k=VR7sn8F

So here are my questions (as I don't want to get it wrong):

1. I read one thread post that says, regarding a halo, platinum is more malleable than 18k white gold and I should choose 18K if I want it more sturdy. Is this true? I didn't even know one could do a delicate melee in 18k as it's not as malleable? I am pretty sure Victor does not work in 18k--I thought JbEG does--but it may be because it's cast?

2. I think I read enough to know the differences of cast and hand forged, but what I never did see is someone say that definitely hand forged is stronger than cast? Even if the cast is 18K?

3. Is hand forged worth the 40% higher price over cast?

4. What would be your recommendation for a safe mm width for the shank? I know skinny is in, but I'd rather be safe and not risk loosing the main diamond and also add a bit of strength to the ring for the melee.

5. Based on your own experiences or what you have seen posted on PS: If I thicken up the shank is it possible to wear this ring daily? Obviously it will be taken off for sleep, showers, cleaning, etc but will be exposed to grocery carts and the stuff of daily life?

6. Is the sole purpose of a donut to add strength?

7. It seems like last year I saw post after post of PSers loosing the melee out of their rings. This year I haven't seen one post about that. Not really a question but more of a If you'd like to comment.

Thanks for your input everyone!

 

[Anise]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

There was a thread updated recently with discussion on thin-shanked rings. I think the consensus was that anything greater than 2 mm is OK. (and 2mm is pretty thin!)

Platinum is used in a lot of center-stone prongs because when it's struck it conforms around the stone, making it very sturdy and holding the stone in, versus a gold prong that might break off and risk losing the stone.

I think you could pick either Platinum or 18K white gold and be fine. There is also a white metal comparison photo floating around here that shows the difference between the white metals.

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

Thanks Anise. I did read that about the 2mm, but I am wondering is a 2mm strong enough for a larger size diamond?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

I have heard very few, if any, complaints about pave rings from Victor Canera. I wouldn't consider setting a stone like yours in anything less than a halo by him or another master ring maker. He knows what is structurally necessary and can explain all that to you, but I think a 2mm shank is safe. I think somewhere on his site it explains why platinum is preferable, and he uses a strong platinum alloy. I personally would choose Victor for a halo without question. Pave rings do have to be treated with extra TLC, so that would be the primary consideration of whether to do a pave ring at all or not.

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

Thank you DS! Do you think the shank is more of a problem than the halo as far as having to be careful with the ring? Like if I go ahead and do the halo and leave off the diamonds on the shank that would be more suitable for daily wear? Or is the halo also the problem?

 

[armywife13]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

I've ton a ton of reading on this right here on Pricescope--a big thank you for those of you who share your knowledge. Would you all be willing to give me a bit of advice?



1. I read one thread post that says, regarding a halo, platinum is more malleable than 18k white gold and I should choose 18K if I want it more sturdy. Is this true? I didn't even know one could do a delicate melee in 18k as it's not as malleable? I am pretty sure Victor does not work in 18k--I thought JbEG does--but it may be because it's cast?
Gold will be more brittle, so if it is hit the prongs are more likely to break and you risk loosing the diamond. With platinum, it is more malleable, so if it is hit the prong might bend but will most likey stay attached and there will be less of a chance of loosing the diamond.

2. I think I read enough to know the differences of cast and hand forged, but what I never did see is someone say that definitely hand forged is stronger than cast? Even if the cast is 18K?
I am not sure on this one, sorry.

3. Is hand forged worth the 40% higher price over cast?
I have seen beautiful settings that cast and beautiful settings that are hand forged, so I think it is really a personal preference. That being said, I think with halos you can tell the difference and I feel that hand forged halos tend to have a more delicate look, with less extra metal...so to me, with a halo it would be worth it.

4. What would be your recommendation for a safe mm width for the shank? I know skinny is in, but I'd rather be safe and not risk loosing the main diamond and also add a bit of strength to the ring for the melee.
I think 2mm would be just fine.

5. Based on your own experiences or what you have seen posted on PS: If I thicken up the shank is it possible to wear this ring daily? Obviously it will be taken off for sleep, showers, cleaning, etc but will be exposed to grocery carts and the stuff of daily life?
I haven't seen many or any complaints with Victor Canera settings or JBEG settings not standing up to daily wear.

6. Is the sole purpose of a donut to add strength?
Check out Michael E's post in this thread, it is the last post on the page. He explains the benefits behind a donut. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-rings-too-thin-these-days.155780/page-2?onlytrade=false']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-rings-too-thin-these-days.155780/page-2?onlytrade=false[/URL]

7. It seems like last year I saw post after post of PSers loosing the melee out of their rings. This year I haven't seen one post about that. Not really a question but more of a If you'd like to comment.
I cannot say for sure why this is, as I have not been here too long, but maybe it has to do with who they are having the setting made by(cast, hand forged, premade), and that there are more people buying quality settings instead of buying a lesser quality setting because it was less expensive upfront.
Thanks for your input everyone!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

Thank you DS! Do you think the shank is more of a problem than the halo as far as having to be careful with the ring? Like if I go ahead and do the halo and leave off the diamonds on the shank that would be more suitable for daily wear? Or is the halo also the problem?

I think having a plain shank will reduce the amount of pave and therefore have less to lose! But a halo can also hit against something. I inadvertently have hit my solitaire and it always scares me. But that is why we have to have good insurance, too! It just is a pain to deal with sending a ring away to have melee stones replaced, and that would be the thing I would dislike. But again, I haven't heard that as a problem with Victor's settings.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

I will add, though, that my favorite setting for a cushion that large is the one with french cut sides.

 

[yssie]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

My 2c on some of the options.. I think people often mean different things when they say "strong", so it depends on what you mean..

In my experience, from strongest to least strong where "strength" == how difficult it is to scratch the surface, w/ rings w/ same width/height/cross section shape/area -
handforged 18k Ni wg
cast 18k Ni wg
cast 18k Pd wg
diestruck (I assume handforged behaves similarly) pt950/ru
cast pt950/ir

What I think the general progression from strongest to weakest would be, in terms of how difficult it is to warp the ring out of shape, w/ rings w/ same width/height/cross section shape/area and same ring size - doesn't really matter unless it'll be super thin & delicate though, and at that point if you're crossing over into "overly delicate" territory I think you're most likely in for trouble no matter what -
handforged 18k wg
diestruck pt
cast 18k wg
cast pt

But wg is more brittle - Ni wg particularly so, combine that with the high density and low porosity of handforging and you wind up with something that's got a good chance of chipping if you knock it off the bathroom counter (oops). Cast Ni wg doesn't have that downside.

And none of that addresses which metals are better for prongs/engraving/whatever else, maintenance, a taller ring (higher off the finger) will resist going ovoid better than a flatter ring but one with more horizontal width won't go out-of-plane as easily when you torque it, a larger ring (finger size) will be more succeptible to both sorts of warping than a smaller ring...

My next piece will be a ring in handforged Ni wg - and I've put rugs in all the bathrooms

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

Armywife13: Thank you so much for all the info! I did a ton of reading on the subject and it is sure nice to combine that with your knowledge too. Knowing all the ins and outs makes choosing a setting and all the details so much easier. I think I already read the Michael E post, but maybe I missed that one. I'm going to check it out (with notebook in hand) now.

diamondseeker2006 You are always so hopeful on the forum--thank you! I really want the halo just to add a tad more finger coverage--I know, I know, go ahead and slap me--but this way DSS won't set in. I gotta tell you and I are similar in our taste for settings as I love that french cut sides setting too--isn't it dreamy?!!? Oh and my dh loves that one too! Unfortunately LM told me for my diamond the price would start at $12k--and there is no way I am laying out that amount of cash on a setting--I'd rather have a solitaire and a blingy eternity. I never asked Victor about french cut sides and I am not sure if JbBeg offers anything similar either--I will go look. And, of course, if you give a girl a french cut sides ER then that girl will want a french cut eternity....and if you give that girl a french cut eternity then she will want a french cut bangle....

Yssie Your 2c is priceless in my opinion and thank you for sharing your thoughts with me too. I'm taking several notes on your post and I am going to definitely look into the metal options. It looks like handforged is the way to go.

Anise Again, thank you!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Questions about melee, platinum/ 18k and hand forged/ ca

Armywife13: Thank you so much for all the info! I did a ton of reading on the subject and it is sure nice to combine that with your knowledge too. Knowing all the ins and outs makes choosing a setting and all the details so much easier. I think I already read the Michael E post, but maybe I missed that one. I'm going to check it out (with notebook in hand) now.

diamondseeker2006 You are always so hopeful on the forum--thank you! I really want the halo just to add a tad more finger coverage--I know, I know, go ahead and slap me--but this way DSS won't set in. I gotta tell you and I are similar in our taste for settings as I love that french cut sides setting too--isn't it dreamy?!!? Oh and my dh loves that one too! Unfortunately LM told me for my diamond the price would start at $12k--and there is no way I am laying out that amount of cash on a setting--I'd rather have a solitaire and a blingy eternity. I never asked Victor about french cut sides and I am not sure if JbBeg offers anything similar either--I will go look. And, of course, if you give a girl a french cut sides ER then that girl will want a french cut eternity....and if you give that girl a french cut eternity then she will want a french cut bangle....

Yssie Your 2c is priceless in my opinion and thank you for sharing your thoughts with me too. I'm taking several notes on your post and I am going to definitely look into the metal options. It looks like handforged is the way to go.

Anise Again, thank you!

Ugh, did not see your latest post! If you like the setting with french cut sides, ask Victor for a quote! That is who I would have make the setting anyway. On my wishlist is his french cut w-band!