Question: mounting comes back different and much more $$$$$

[windowshopper]

Question: my mounting is done (I havent seen it yet). Apparently the design has been altered/expanded upon (without consultation) by the artistic

and egomaniacal jeweler.

The main difference is much larger side stones than we agreed on. The price is now 1900 more. I have to go see it today. They said if I don't like they will have it RE-made as I wanted no problem-- probably to the tune of another 5 weeks...........

What would you do?

 

[SJS1234]

WHAT?!?!?! um....I would be pretty upset if I were you....but that''s just me. I mean egomaniacal is a MILD way of putting it, don''t you think? I understand if a designer wants to "suggest" alterations to the original design if he/she thinks it will be an improvement -- but to go ahead and create it without consultation -- and at a $1900 upcharge? WHAT?!?! I think I would be upset enough to start over with someone else completely......but maybe I''m missing something here. omg if I had been waiting weeks for my setting, then knew I would have to wait WEEKS longer because they PURPOSELY screwed it up (by screwed it up, I mean created something I did not ask for), I would be omg TOTALLY livid.

but again that''s just me. Of course you may love it and be ok with paying the extra $$ ---- but it''s the whole principle of the situation......right?

 

[windowshopper]

well i agree completely but i didnt want to fly off the handle until i saw it and gave it a chance...............if for some reason i lopved it i thought maybe we could meet somehwere amenable on the price even i really cant afford it right now. But I am trying to keep an open mind. I am particular miffed b/c we had originally discussed using the gentleman involved and I was told explicitly they werent going to use him b/c hes "difficult"

 

[windowshopper]

well you are crankydave right?

 

[belle]

.......grrrrrrrrrr........
well window, i really hope you like the ring when you see it. for that much extra$$$$, it better "sing" to you! if when you see it, you forget about the price, then all is well..........
good luck!

 

[Brian Knox]

How much did they quote initially?

What size side stones did they quote initially ?

What size did they put in the ring?

 

[strmrdr]

Do you have the orginal quote in writing?

 

[cascadejim]

Here''s where you should go: Better Business Bureau

When I went in there I would absolutely refuse the ring no matter how terrific it looks. It''s not what you ordered, it''s $1900 more. If they tell you that it will take another 5 weeks, just state what they quoted you on lead-time for the ring and tell them you will be getting in touch with the BBB and if things really don''t go well, perhaps a lawyer. What they are doing is borderline illegal, especially if you have already paid for the ring they are setting.

I can''t believe how calm you are on this. I think my head would''ve exploded when they told me it was an additional $1900 because they modified MY design.

 

[windowshopper]

Feydakin:

I can understand your skepticism but this is flat out exactly how it happened. We selected a mounting they already had --priced at 4500. Additionally, I wanted four small traps set right into the band --tapering away from the stone--so that brought the estimate to roughly 6000. The traps were to be set right into the band so they wouldnt look like side stones--discussed sizes of .24/.15. I actually gave the vendor the photo of the trapezoid detail. ..............

We emailed twice regarding the prongs

No further discussion.

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9

2

0 AM
Author: Brian Knox
How much did they quote initially?

What size side stones did they quote initially ?

What size did they put in the ring?

6000-------------entirely pave with 4 traps .24/.15 ish (they had to be cut to fit so it wasnt exact)

I dont know yet b/c I will go in today..................was told much larger?

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9

4:12 AM
Author: strmrdr
Do you have the orginal quote in writing?

i wrote everything on the back of his business card as we were talking

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:16:34 AM
Author: Feydakin
I think that the BBB as a first shot is a bit excessive..

well i want to keep an open mind----but i would have like to have been consulted for one and two the price differrential is huge

 

[denverappraiser]

I agree with Steve, something doesn''t sound right here.

If the jeweler had a problem with your design and felt that a change was required, the very first thing that should have been done is to consult with you about the issue. If he proceeded without authorization to make whatever he wanted, I see that as making inventory for stock. You should certainly look at it and decide if you are interested in buying it but if it''s not what you agreed to, I think you have no obligation to buy it, even if he drops the price to what was discussed.

5 additional weeks to make what you ordered also seems excessive. If there is a problem with your design and a change is required to make it work, let him make his case. He'' probably right. If what you requested is fundamentally flawed and he can''t or won''t make it, this is certainly his choice but he has no business deciding on what compromises YOU should be making in order to deal with it. His offer of ''buy it if you want or I''ll remake it according to the original plan'' is fair but you should find out why he made the changes before you agree to this.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:30:41 AM
Author: denverappraiser
I agree with Steve, something doesn''t sound right here.

If the jeweler had a problem with your design and felt that a change was required, the very first thing that should have been done is to consult with you about the issue. If he proceeded without authorization to make whatever he wanted, I see that as making inventory for stock. You should certainly look at it and decide if you are interested in buying it but if it''s not what you agreed to, I think you have no obligation to buy it, even if he drops the price to what was discussed.

5 additional weeks to make what you ordered also seems excessive. If there is a problem with your design and a change is required to make it work, let him make his case. He'' probably right. If what you requested is fundamentally flawed and he can''t or won''t make it, this is certainly his choice but he has no business deciding on what compromises YOU should be making in order to deal with it. His offer of ''buy it if you want or I''ll remake it according to the original plan'' is fair but you should find out why he made the changes before you agree to this.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

Well the vendor is not a great communicator so I am wondering if maybe the jeweler contacted him and he didnt bother to call me>?.........he said they''ve had this problem before but hes so good they use him anyway.....

 

[Brian Knox]

Usually with custom it is wise to quote a range.

Then if it the costs turns out in the lower end of the range, you have a happy customer that will tell their friends of this ''unheard off'' experience.

And if the costs escalate to the higher end of the range, you explain to the customer why, etc. and it is not a surprise.

Surprises in any element of custom work is problematic.

To end up 30% over what you had been quoted without consulation on the changes is strange , indeed.

Keep an open mind till you see it, you may agree that they were right or you may not.

Don''t make up your mind yet.

5 weeks does seem on the high side, unless you are talking about a very high degree of difficulty and/or complex job.

 

[cascadejim]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:22:57 AM
Author: crankydave

Date: 1/18/2005 9:12:10 AM
Author: cascadejim
Here''s where you should go: Better Business Bureau

When I went in there I would absolutely refuse the ring no matter how terrific it looks. It''s not what you ordered, it''s $1900 more. If they tell you that it will take another 5 weeks, just state what they quoted you on lead-time for the ring and tell them you will be getting in touch with the BBB and if things really don''t go well, perhaps a lawyer. What they are doing is borderline illegal, especially if you have already paid for the ring they are setting.

I can''t believe how calm you are on this. I think my head would''ve exploded when they told me it was an additional $1900 because they modified MY design.

That''s right, lets jump in with both feet and call the BBB. Hell, while we''re at it let''s call the Mayor, the Governor, Johnny Cochran, the Army, Air Force, Marines and the Navy. Let''s really get them. Let''s call the President and beg him to bomb the living s.... and so on and so forth.

Dave

Wow, your screen-name is no lie. So you think that if someone promises you something, then makes changes and can''t get you what they promised to you for an additional 5 weeks that this is ok? Imagine if you were proposing on a certain date, hotel reservations, restaurant reservations, etc. It''s all planned around the original date they had quoted, then they tell you 5 weeks more? That''s not good business, and to not notify the customer of the changes they were making, it''s completely misleading and it sounds like they are trying to trap her into a more expensive sale. In my book, that''s not someone I would want to deal with and it''s not someone I would want anyone else to deal with.

Windowshopper: The fact that everything is only written on the back of a business card is pretty bad news, it reduces it to he said/she said. I wish you the best of luck with the situation.

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:36:26 AM
Author: Feydakin

Date: 1/18/2005 9:29:11 AM
Author: windowshopper

Date: 1/18/2005 9

4:12 AM
Author: strmrdr
Do you have the orginal quote in writing?

i wrote everything on the back of his business card as we were talking

Ok, this part bothers me.. Your quote was on the back of a business card?!?! And you were the one that wrote it and the jeweler?? Again, not accusing you of anything, but this isn''t right and in my opinion puts us in one of two categories..

1. There is a problem with your impression of what is happening..

2. There is a problem with this jeweler.. I don''t know about everyone, but all of the jewelers I do know always use their own pre-printed quote cards and have you sign it and give you a copy before making anything.. There are very rare exceptions involving regular customers etc., but I can''t imagine a quote on a business card giving me any confidence at all in a jeweler..

I DIDNT MEET WITH THE JEWELER-------IT WAS THE VENDOR OF THE STONE WHO WAS HAVNG THEMOUNTING DONE FOR ME

 

[windowshopper]

Please let me clarify--I met with the vendor of the stone--he gave me the estimate. He called me and said its beautiful but you you may not like it--- the jeweler made the traps much larger than you wanted. The price is X. You may not like it --but we will remake it no problem. I am ASSUMING it would take that long to make a new mounting maybe not and thats just my assumption. The vendor has already admitted the error...............so whether or not I have the quote on a business card is irrelevant really. As he admits that its not what he and I agreed on--I am just out the use of my ring for however long it takes to remake...............

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:43:40 AM
Author: Feydakin
Who you dealt with in no way alters the fact that you should have gotten a quote in writing that THEY provided, not something you wrote down on a business card while chatting with them.. This is how problems like this come to be.. I could care less who is doing the work, your deal is with the person you are giving the money to, and they are the ones responsible for making this right..

Feydakin--the price is not the issue. Its the design..........and the time to remake. We are NOT NOT NOT arguing over the price. He admits its different and thus more $$$$......................

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:45

3 AM
Author: crankydave
cascadejim,

No, my extreme sarcasm was not intended to justify what is/has happened. At this point, contacting the BBB and lawyers is no less extreme now is it?

windowshopper,

Honestly, not much I can add to excellent posts of others so far. I do have one question, did you paid the 6K upfront?

Dave

Thanks Cascade for not attacking me!-----------no half as a deposit

 

[IrishEyes]

I agree with you Windowshopper. You''re getting taken for a ride. This jeweler is simply trying to get more money out of you. You wanted a certain design. He agreed then decided to change it, something that is very important and sentimental, WITHOUT your consultation. What an a**. Sure, you might like the new design, but I would stick to my principles and go with your original design. If he gives you a hard time, I would take my business elsewhere. Just my .02. Good Luck!

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:52:45 AM
Author: Feydakin
Ok, let me back up again here, and try this one more time..

1. You didn''t mention that your diamond broker was the one hiring the jeweler.. Your first post said nothing about multiple parties involved and I was working on the assumption that you hired a jeweler to make your ring who then hired someone that could actually make it..

2. Your deal is with the diamond broker, not the jeweler that made the ring.. So regardless of anything else, the broker is the responsible party here.. Period.. It''s his job to make this right for you. If that''s lowering the price, or remaking the ring, it''s still his responsibility to make it right..

3. 5 weeks is unreasonable for a remake.. But where did this number come from?? From what I''ve read to this point it is a number you picked and is not one provided by the broker or the jeweler..

4. Go talk with your diamond broker.. Keep an open mind but do not let him talk you into anything you do not absolutely love.. You will be wearing this ring for a very long time and you do not want it to be a reminder of problems..

5. Then tell us how he plans to handle the problem.. If you agree with him, by all means, do that.. But if you are not completely satisified, start naming names and then look at alternative solutions..

sorry for leaving that out to start...........i said 5 weeks b/c it took almost 6 weeks from the time we selected the design. so i thought it would be the same???????????

 

[cascadejim]

Well now that i hear he didn''t actually quote you 5 weeks, that''s just what you were assuming and it wasn''t the jeweler directly manufacturing the piece that changes it quite a bit. I would go in and see what they will do for you. I wouldn''t take the higher $$ piece just on principle, but that''s just me.

I''m sure they will be able to make you what you want in a short period of time given that they made a mistake.

 

[windowshopper]

i feel so much better--thanks guys!

 

[noobie]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:52:42 AM
Author: crankydave
I'm getting the impression the breakdown of communication was between the vendor and the jeweler and not with you. I hope your deposit is refundable if...

A. You don't like the mounting made and/or the price
B. You don't want to have the mounting remade and wish to move on.

Dave

I actually agree with Dave! It happens on occasion

. It sounds like a miscommunication between the diamond dealer and jeweler. If they have the new smaller stones, it should be relatively quick to remake, a week at most if they prioritize your work.

I would look at the ring decide if I liked it. Negotiate the price. If you don't like it, have them remake it or get a refund and find a new jeweler if you can.

It may seem like a major irritant now, but you will have this ring for the rest of your life. Take a deep breath, decide exactly what you want and take the steps to make it happen. You'll be much happier in the long run.

I don't think it's a conspiracy to charge you more. Sound more like sloppy communication.

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 1/18/2005 9:58:18 AM
Author: Feydakin
Ah, assumption, the mother of all.................

Seriously.. The reason for 5 weeks, and I''m sure this is the same everywhere, is lead time.. Your ring did not take 5 weeks to make.. My guess is it took 2 or 3 days.. The 5 weeks is simply scheduling it into the rotation and then getting to it.. But the actual build time is days..

A remake should get pushed to the front of the line and done ASAP.. 1 week max..

Go, talk to your broker.. And next time hire the jeweler yourself.. It really does avoid these issues when you remove one step in the communication process..

FEYDAKIN----------------MY CHEM TEACHER IN HIGH SCHOOL USED TO SAY THAT STUPID SAYING "TO ASSUME MAKES AND ASS OF YOU AND ME" IF I''D KNOWN THE TIMELINE I WOULD HAVE NOT GOTTEN NEARLY SO WIGGED OUT!
THANKS AGAIN!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/18/2005 10

0:57 AM
Author: noobie

Date: 1/18/2005 9:52:42 AM
Author: crankydave
I''m getting the impression the breakdown of communication was between the vendor and the jeweler and not with you. I hope your deposit is refundable if...

A. You don''t like the mounting made and/or the price
B. You don''t want to have the mounting remade and wish to move on.

Dave

I actually agree with Dave! It happens on occasion

. It sounds like a miscommunication between the diamond dealer and jeweler. If they have the new smaller stones, it should be relatively quick to remake, a week at most if they prioritize your work.

I would look at the ring decide if I liked it. Negotiate the price. If you don''t like it, have them remake it or get a refund and find a new jeweler if you can.

It may seem like a major irritant now, but you will have this ring for the rest of your life. Take a deep breath, decide exactly what you want and take the steps to make it happen. You''ll be much happier in the long run.

I don''t think it''s a conspiracy to charge you more. Sound more like sloppy communication.

Yes, and it could end up being a happy accident. Perhaps the proportions of the center stone to the mounting may be more pleasing than the initial setting proportions. Also, perhaps they needed to make the side stones a better color match.

Sounds like a communication snafu.

 

[windowshopper]

To Fire & Ice-----------you may be right which is why I need to wait to see it before i figure this all out. I know who the jeweler is and he does extremely fine work so I am sure it wont be unattractive it just may not be what I want...

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Hi all, I am back, Dja miss me,

Sounds like a pretty common case of misscommunication from the contractor to the bench-worker, but this one is on steriods. The ego issue is threatening to cost you $1900, so it is no longer quirky, but a bit frightening.

Nobody knows what discourse went on between the contractor and the bench worker before they ended up with what they are offering you. At some point alarm bells should have been ringing and you should have been told what happened. That is if they are the buisness of making money.

I can only guess and it is only a wild guess at that, but perhaps your diamond vendor, making a buck on the deal, didn't tell the manufacturers what figure you paid. He said roughly what size side stones you'd like and gave his interpretation of the design to both you and the bench-worker. The bench-worker (looking at an unsound design) left your ring in the back of the to-do pile as he doesn't do much work for the vendor and it often ends up in a confusing mess anyway. When he found the job had become urgent, either he used larger stones because he thought it better, or because he had some on hand (but I doubt that, given who contracted him). He didn't care because he made a good ring, and that is his job. He gets paid to make it, end of story. His reputation demands he does a good job and he thinks he did. ??

The only thing that doesn't fit, (if I am close to being correct), is that he said he never has a problem when he does this. This is not a small increase in price. He may be referring to private customers who he has regular dealings with and whom he consults throughout the design phase, whereupon he has been granted his artistic license.

All that being said, while the jeweller may be good at communicating himself with metal and sparkle it certainly doesn't suit to stand on your lorels in front of the end consumer, when the buisness went through a third party. It puts him in a terrible light where he doesn't defend himself on his merits, but on some base ideal.

Your only as good as your last job, and that includes getting the right size stones and meeting projected costs.

This is the kindest way I can view it. Not knowing either party I am only guessing.

Have you spoken to both parties. I think you have. I am sorry your having such problems. I hope what you get makes it all worth your while.

The rest has been said far better then I could have, so I won't go on.

It is good to be back

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Just want to say, I hadn''t read the second page before I replied.

Feel free to make all the assumptions you like