Please help with diamond decision please.

[SwerveAM]

Hi,

I am glad to be looking for a diamond but all of this is pretty new to me. I have been reading a lot on the forums and been shopping around a lot. As of now, there is a stone that i have in mind.

It is an independent company in Maryland- Nelson Coleman Jewlers in Towson.

I was shown many stones (w/o knowing the specs/price) and managed to pick out HOF diamonds amongst their own "ultimate" cut diamond.

However, I am now torn between the HOF and their cut diamond as the one I am pondering not only has a better location of inclusion but the stone also rated better on the ISee2 system. I understand that i shouldn't fully trust the machine but I am a scientist that has worked with similar machines and I am only using it as a FINAL test.

The stone specs are

.77 ct
H color
SI1

Table 56%
Crown Angle 34.3
Pav Angle 40.9
Total Depth 61%
Girdle 0.8-1.3%

All this was from an AGS cert.

The question I have is that the jewler is quoting a price of $5000 for the stone. Is that a reasonable price or am I being taken for a sucker? When I put the specs into the cut advisor, it says the stone is good. As for the inclusion, it is a feather near the edge, on the pavillion, so it can be covered by a prong.

What do you guys think?


Edit:

Also, I looked at a HOF and this stone under an brilliance scope, i believe, not the ideal scope. The arrows were approx. the same in symmetry and were distinct but the hearts on the non-HOF was MUCH better. There was more of a "split" of the hearts on the HOF, which was unexpected for me at least. I know that HOF isn't the best but I was still surprised to see that their own ultimate cut came out better than the HOF at $1000 less.

 

[kenny]

Better color

Better HCA score
$1500 less.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_76ct_g_si1_h&a.htm




OR

Better color, clarity, larger and still $600 cheaper:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_84ct_g_vs2_h&a.htm

 

[phoenixgirl]

Good diamond? Yes. Good price? No!!!

That''s actually where my husband ordered my setting from (Vatche X prong). I don''t know the details exactly, but I think he paid more than other vendors were quoting for the same setting. The only reason he ordered from them was because he was having a hard time locating the setting and needed it ASAP.

OK, here is a 0.76 H SI1 AGS0 for $2264. Granted it has strong blue flourescence, but that wouldn''t cut the price in half, especially since flourescence can be desirable in a non colorless (i.e. not D, E, or F) stone. That $5k is really, really, really high. That would be a good price for a one carat, which should be selling for a lot more than a 3/4 carat.

I''m sorry, but if you can get a 1 carat, AGS0, H SI1 hearts and arrows stone for the same price elsewhere, I don''t think that jeweler has a leg to stand on. I am sure there is room for negotiation, but it''s up to you if it''s worth it.

You have a lot of options if you have $5k to spend. Here are some ideas:

1.015 H SI1 H&A for $5205 Also AGS0 (Says this on their site: September Special! Up to 3% discount on diamond purchases over $1,500! Just mention code PS622 when calling. Offer not valid with any other discounts or promotions.") As you can tell from the 301 area code, they are located somewhere in Maryland near DC, so you could go see the stone in person (I believe -- I don''t know if the lack of an exact address on their site means they discourage this, but it can''t hurt to ask!).

0.925 H VS2 H&A for $4959 Also AGS0 From the same vendor as above


1.03 H SI1 H&A for $4509 GIA report with Sarin Analysis The $4509 is what is listed through PriceScope when you find the stone -- ask for the PS discount to get it.

And then there are some 0.75 to 0.84 G VS2-SI1 H&A stones listed for between $2829 and $4385 if that is more the size you are looking for. Play around with the searcy by cut page. It''s fun!

Whatever you decide, good luck! And stay strong when you talk to the jeweler! There is no way they can magically make that stone''s fair market price to be $5k, so don''t let them give you their "The internet? No! It''s full of misinformation and thieves!" speech. You can go check out those Dirt Cheap Diamond stones in person if buying online isn''t your thing.

 

[pearcrazy]

I would call DirtCheap about checking out their stones in person. Their website says that they no longer allow stones to be checked out in person at their place of business. They have to be sent to a third party appraiser if someone wishes to view them before purchase.

 

[SwerveAM]

thank you very much for such a great and lengthy reply. I am a little worried about buying online as I can not see where the inclusions are before I buy it. also, i would need to find a place online that would offer a payment plan that would involve no interest. I know a lot of stores offer it but not sure if they do online. I am also looking to get a custom setting made at the store as well, which is rather intricate and would cost approx 2-3k in platinum. The only reason i felt it would be worth it is that the SI2 inclusion is at a location that would be easily masked by a prong.

 

[phoenixgirl]

SI2 inclusion? I thought it was SI1?

The price really isn''t competitive. Think your slickest car salesman, and that''s what you''ve got going on. What reason could they possible have for charging twice as much for the same size, same color, same lab report, same cut grade as other stones? Yes, you should be willing to pay more for the convenience and peace of mind that goes along with buying in a "real" store, but not twice as much!!!!

You say you are looking for an interest free payment plan, so that tells me that this purchase is a big deal for you and you don''t just have thousands of dollars to plunk down for the purchase. Then why, oh why, pay about $2k extra for the diamond? There''s $2k you don''t have to worry about financing without interest and paying back each month. You don''t have to shop online to be an informed, savvy buyer.

I''m sorry for being harsh, but really, wake up and smell the mark-up. Go play around on BlueNile.com. They have a lot of AGS0 stones (H SI1''s in the $3k range). They''re sort of like the Amazon.com of diamonds, so you can get a sense of prices. And they are actually a bit pricier than some of the vendors who post here because they''re a big outfit.

 

[SwerveAM]

sorry- my mistake on the SI2- it is an SI1- typo while i was typing too fast.

the only reason I started posting here instead of just lurking and using the functions is that after using the cut quality search, i am begining to see just how much more I am paying at this store.

for people with previous experience with this, I know I can''t just roll on in and say match the net price because i know that''s not going to happen. i am much more worried about the setting as i am having a custom design made that i made myself. that is someting i can not compromise on and i have to see the ring as it is made to ensure it turns out just the way i want.

has anyone had to finance their stone online before? is it even feasible?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/25/2005 9:30:31 PM
Author: SwerveAM
sorry- my mistake on the SI2- it is an SI1- typo while i was typing too fast.

the only reason I started posting here instead of just lurking and using the functions is that after using the cut quality search, i am begining to see just how much more I am paying at this store.

for people with previous experience with this, I know I can''t just roll on in and say match the net price because i know that''s not going to happen. i am much more worried about the setting as i am having a custom design made that i made myself. that is someting i can not compromise on and i have to see the ring as it is made to ensure it turns out just the way i want.

has anyone had to finance their stone online before? is it even feasible?

you should never finance jewlery through the vendor

,they charge loan shark interest rates.

 

[SwerveAM]

well they are giving me a year to pay it off- versus having to pay it all off now and paying either loan interest rate or credit card interest rate...

do any online vendors offer this?

 

[kenny]

SwerveAM wrote:
" would need to find a place online that would offer a payment plan that would involve no interest.  I know a lot of stores offer it but not sure if they do online. 

If you pay double for the same diamond isn't that much more unpleasant (or dare I say unwise?) than paying 10% or 20% interest?

Here's another way to look at it:
When you pay $5000 (but no interest) on a diamond that you could have gotten for $2500 it is like100% interest.
That's one hundred percent.
Hardly interest free.

Do you own a home?
Can you get a home equity line of credit?
The interest rates are the lowest and are probably tax deductable.

If not, and if your credit situation is that dire perhaps spending $5000 or even $2500 on a stone and another $2500 on the setting is something you and her can plan for your tenth anniversary.

You can get just as married and be just as much in love with a wedding band or a smaller stone in a elegant simple setting.



Also, Like you I was hesitant to buy online.
I shoped around, started small, learned a lot and today I have no hesitation buying a substantial diamond online.
Just because I have a high comfort level, that doesn't mean you do.
I just recommend you keep reading and paying attention to Pricescope and other sources.
If you can gain comfort you stand to save thousands.
Even if you don't buy online read the advanced tutorial here and read posts for a few months.
You will get a much better diamond after getting better informed.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/26/2005 12:05:19 AM
Author: SwerveAM
well they are giving me a year to pay it off- versus having to pay it all off now and paying either loan interest rate or credit card interest rate...

do any online vendors offer this?

they just charge you more for the stone,compare to online vendors.there is no free ride.$5k for a 3/4 ct H SI1 stone is way too high.

 

[atroop711]

Hi....

I know this is none of my business but the price is a lot for the stone....If you can''t buy it out right now and don''t want to pay 100% interest (basically what it is) have you thought about talking to you girlfriend about this? I have known many people who didn''t have the cash to buy and didn''t want to charge it so they bought the dream setting and put an amazing CZ in the place of the stone...THEN saved up all of the cash needed to buy the stone in cash and replaced it. I know of couples who did this for 6 months , for a year and for 10 yrs. My husband went and bought me a 2 ct diamond but there went achunk of our cash for our wedding. I didn''t want us to CHARGE away our begining...I didn''t want to start out our marriage owing....so I convinced him to take the stone back and get a CZ to match instead....well we didn''t anticipate it taking 10 years but with 2 kids (here in NYC) and private school tuitions, the cash saved kept on going to my most important ones...my kids...but being very patient and never asking...I am finally getting my ring this week (hopefully..it is being custom made)

This may be an option for you....you said the jeweler is giving you a year to pay it off without interest..you can save for that same year and at the end of it with $5000 saved, you can buy a bigger stone...or the same stone but this price can inluded your custome setting.

Good Luck with whatever you choose to do...

 

[Lorelei]

I agree with everyone else - you can get a lot more for your money. Unless there is a huge rush, stick around for a bit and see what else is out there. There is a handy search tool at the top Pricescope Your Diamonds - that should bring up lots. A good vendor will also eyeball each diamond for you and tell you more about the type and position of the inclusions and possibly send you pictures - also he will advise on cut quality and visual performance. If you take this guy up on his interest free offer, you will STILL be paying too much for this stone, ok you will have a ring quickly - but you will have plenty of time to regret jumping at this one when you could have waited a little and got something far better, cheaper. I think listen to what everyone else is telling you, step back a little and continue searching. This is too important a purchase to settle for second best, wait if you can- the right diamond is out there! Maybe concentrate on just getting the diamond if money is an issue and have a simple setting, you can always upgrade the setting later and have your custom one then.

 

[denverappraiser]

Financing jewelry is almost always a bad idea. It means that you are starting your life together with a substantial debt that is completely unnecessary. Buy a less expensive ring and upgrade later when you have more money. That said, it’s easy enough to do it if you want.

There is no difference between borrowing money from the jeweler and borrowing money from someone else to make your purchase. In fact, it’s almost certain that you ARE borrowing from someone else. Most jewelers aren’t interested in being in the banking business anyway so they make a deal with an outside finance company. You fill out a credit application, the company examines your credit worthiness, approves you and pays the jeweler. The jeweler gets their money, you get your item and the payments are made directly to the finance company. This is functionally identical to opening a new credit card account and making your purchase with it.

The 1 year ‘free’ interest is being paid for by two sources. First, the jeweler may not get the full amount from the finance company. For example, if you borrow $1000, the jeweler may only get $950 of that. Trust me, this is reflected in the price. Second, the company is hoping to collect late fees and other charges throughout the year. Lastly, they hope that you won’t pay off the loan at the end of the year and they will get to collect some interest (and more fees) over the life of the loan. Again, this is identical to the credit cards and their introductory offers. By the way, the impact on your credit rating is also identical.

This is all good news for you. Credit card and finance companies are wickedly competitive businesses and are easy to shop against one another. There is no real benefit to going with the one that happened to make a deal with the jeweler you selected and they make it as easy as possible to do business with them. Current interest rates are about 8%-12% depending on your creditworthiness and whatever other benefits you want from the deal. No, the frequent flyer miles aren’t really free but you can include them if you want. It’s easy to figure out how much that year of ‘free’ interest is really costing. Then you can shop the diamond deal on it’s own merits. As has been pointed out, the cash price is easy to beat although you can probably negotiate a discount, especially if you decline the finance offer. The finance deal is worth about 8% or, in your case, about $400, possibly a little less depending on what your plans are at the end of the first year.

There are lots of finance offers at www.bankrate.com

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[cqdiep]

I just recently purchased an e-ring and was in a similar situation as you (except for the custom setting). I spent $5K for the stone and $1300 for the setting. I had no money at the time, and was thinking of financing. However, I decided to do a balance transfer/cash advance from my credit card, which offered 3% interest until the balance is paid off in full. I also thought of applying for a new card with 0% APR for one year, but I wouldn''t be able to pay off $6300 in one year, and the interest rate would shoot up to 20%. I would consider these 2 options so that you can buy on-line and save cash. I bought a 1 ct stone F SI1 (HCA 2.3) for $5K at McGivern''s. They have a store in OH, but open their inventory online. Good luck.

 

[SwerveAM]

WOW. That is all I have to say about this forum site. This is not my first but this is probably the first time I have not seen a flame session start due to inexperience. The advice that everyone has given has ALL been taken to heart. Believe me. I have already written a rather harsh email to the vendor but I wanted to know a few things:

1) Can you get a totally non-branded H&A? The two sites I have been getting back on the pricescope search include GoodOldGold and Whiteflash. I know the whiteflash has the ACA but I wanted to know if I can get from the vendor non-"ultimate" cut H&A (which is their "proprietary" cut H&A)

2) I understand all that has been said about being poor but that should only be temporary as I plan to be fully employed after i finish my phd but i will def look into other means of payment- including calling my credit card company to see if they can extend a good offer to me as i have pretty good credit.

3) Moving onto the setting, i have a rather intricate setting that i am having made at the location. the quote so far is approx 2-3k, pending final design. the setting is something i do not want to compromise on and i would like to make sure it comes out just the way i like it.

4) I have searched and this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_82ct_g_si1_h&a.htm so far has my eye considering the inclusions are more to the edge. what do ya''ll think of this?

oh btw. i love this place.

 

[Scintillating]

Hey Swerve -
That stone looks good to me.
The inclusions on the edge wouldn't bother me, I don't think.
I suggest you give them a call at GOG and have them look at it - and give their impressions.
They are a helpful bunch.

Cut looks good.
Numbers look good.
And the price looks good.

Scintillating...

 

[SwerveAM]

the only other possible contenders are

2) http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_88ct_h_vs1_h%26a.htm


3) http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-5820201#


Obviously, I am comparing apples to oranges but out of the 3, which is the better "deal"? I would think the .88 as for $400 more, i am getting 0.06 and the VS1 and for $1000 more, I am getting an extra .11 ct and the vs1.

i was hoping to get close to 1 but that is not possible without SERIOUSLY losing out on quality and keeping it within 4000. i''m looking to spend about 5-6 k as that is about 2 1/2 months salary for me now.

no comments on the setting? i would upload a pic but i don''t want the design to be repeated. i have looked far and wide and i have yet to see something similar.

 

[Scintillating]

I like the G from GOG.

The Brillance on the H is only in the High range which for brillance is not so hot,
and the idealscope/lightscope doesn't look ideal - it looks like there is some leakage.
The F at Whiteflash has a big inclusion right under the table so I'm not really sure it eye clean.
But you can call and ask them.

Just my .02

Scintillating...

 

[SwerveAM]

well from the list that i found- keeping AGS and GIA ONLY- these three were the best in my mind and now that i look at it- do you think the ones on the G can be covered by prongs?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/27/2005 3:04:34 AM
Author: SwerveAM
well from the list that i found- keeping AGS and GIA ONLY- these three were the best in my mind and now that i look at it- do you think the ones on the G can be covered by prongs?

call Jon and ask him.

 

[Lorelei]

The GOG .82 looks like a great stone!

Call them and ask Jon to look at it for you and give his advice on hiding the inclusions. Doesn''t look to me that there will be a problem.

 

[SwerveAM]

wow- seems like everyone like the .82.....

how often does cut quality search update the diamonds?

 

[SwerveAM]

i have placed a deposit on the .82. Unless the local store can beat it by this weekend, I believe this will be the one I settle on. I called Jon and he reassurred me that it would be masked by a prong with no problem.


THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INPUT...any last suggestions??

 

[SwerveAM]

looking at the AGS cert again just to be certain- i noticed this on the bottom of the cert:


"46989260AB” is present on the table facet of this diamond

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

 

[Lorelei]

I would guess it is the laser inscription on the diamond which is there for identification purposes, maybe one of the experts or Jon can clarify? Probably the AGS number.

 

[SwerveAM]

he says it is a ISee2 designation. does this make a difference in the stone?

Jerry

 

[MissAva]

It helps you indetify your stone, it does not harm it in anyway.

I am intreasted in seeing your design. There is always a chance that someone here could make it for less, or possibly find it for you.

 

[Scintillating]

Date: 9/29/2005 12:12:09 AM
Author: SwerveAM
looking at the AGS cert again just to be certain- i noticed this on the bottom of the cert:
''46989260AB” is present on the table facet of this diamond

On the table facet?????
Are you sure it doesn''t say girdle facet?

Do you have the results of the Isee2?
I''m sure that beautiful stone scored well.

Good to hear that the inclusions won''t be a problem.
It''s great when the inclusion are near the edge, they can often be masked.
And thus the consumer gets beautiful stone at a great price$!

Scintillating...

 

[SwerveAM]

i am almost 100% positive that the design is original but thank you very much for the suggestion. For me- I am WAAAY to a*al to not see the ring every day or every other day while it is being made to make sure everything is looking JUST right .

The stone scored a 9.1 consistently on the ISee2. The other $5k one scored about 9.3 consistently. Not sure if that .2 is worth that extra $2k.