Please HELP!!!! SI1 = SI2!!! Do we keep it or return it????!

[Muppetina]

Hello,

My boyfriend and I would really appreciate some advice on this situation. We bought a diamond from one of the vendors here on Pricescope. The vendor assured us that the diamond, which was an F SI1, was perfectly eye-clean (the exact words were "100% eye-clean).

We had the diamond appraised by Marty Haske. The good news is that he agreed with the GIA's color grading (in fact, he said it was a borderline E). The bad news is, he thought it was an SI2, and he said it was NOT EYE-CLEAN. He located the inclusion with the loupe first, and then could easily see it without the loupe. Once he pointed it out, we can both see it too, though it's not quite as obvious to us - we have to hold it up with the light source behind it and look through it. If we hold it below the light and look down into it, it's much harder to make out. Marty also said that it's a "high relief" inclusion, meaning that it is reflected through the diamond.

We're both disappointed with the vendor for telling us that the diamond is eye-clean, since we can see the inclusion without a loupe. On the other hand, Marty said it might be coverable with a prong (it's a sizeable white crystal, between the table and the girdle, near the crown). And we did pay a good price for it (his guess as to what we paid, even knowing that it was an Internet retailer, was $500 more than what we paid, and we paid $2.5K less than retail, in his opinion).

I have a few questions for any experts or non-experts kind enough to weigh in...

1. Would a high relief inclusion still reflect within the diamond if it was covered by a prong (ie, if much less light were allowed to hit it)?

2. Will a high-relief inclusion affect the diamond's light return? It seems very sparkly to us, but we don't see a lot of diamonds...

3. If you bought what you thought was an eye-clean SI1 and it turned out to be a borderline SI2, not eye-clean but likely coverable with a prong, would you return it?

We need to decide quickly, since we want to order a custom setting, and the diamond's return date will expire while we wait for it!

Thank you in advance for your help!!!!

 

[wonka27]

I'm not going to comment on your questions, but just a general understanding I have.

If I'm not mistaken, which I could be, eye clean is from a distance of 10 inches looking at a diamond for a few seconds (around 10 sec. I believe). It sounds like you did a lot of hunting around to see the inclusion, needing to have it pointed out. I don't necessarily think the vendor mislead you.

The bottom line is if your not happy with the diamond, return it. That is why vendor's give you that protection. It gives you the time to inspect the diamond, and have it inspected by a profession if you choose to do so.

 

[strmrdr]

If your not happy with it return it but:
eyeclean is when mounted.
Eyeclean is subjective and will vary from person to person.
It also wont have much light entering from the back in a setting.

Some people can spot vs2 inclusions from across the room others cant see i2 inclusions at 5 inches.
The vendors try and base the eyeclean rating on their perception of what the average person can see.

Look at it from the top like it was mounted and on your finger then decide if the inclusion is an issue for you.

 

[valeria101]

So... "eye clean" is in the eye of the beholder and I suppose the wordins should mean "nothing in there without magnification, face up" in whatever state (mounted or not) the stone is presented to you. Surely settings could cover some inclusions so "eye clean" - as any clarity grade - means different things about mounted and unmounted stones...

Return policies are there to make sure you keep the piece you want - so if the included crystal is not acceptable to you, why not return it? Some labs and sellers mention if inclusions have visible reflections (these are sometimes called "reflectors") and are considered undesirable, as you may guess. Once set, the prongs and setting will also be reflected within the stone, so the reflections of the inclusions and the inclusion itself will likely be obviated. But with so many SI's out there... it is definitely your decission only

Just my 0.2, of course.

Is there a copy of the cert (the inclusion plot is what I am curious about) anywhere online?

 

[Muppetina]

Thank you all for your insightful comments. The problem with just returning the stone is that prices have gone up a lot recently... If we could even find an eye-clean F or E SI1 in the same size, it seems that it would cost us a few hundred dollars more. That's in addition to having already spent the appraisal cost, and paying for return shipping... Needless to say, we would like to feel good about keeping this one. If the inclusion likely won't be reflected once it's covered by a prong, we're leaning toward keeping it.

Valeria, I don't have a copy of the GIA cert, but trust me, the crystal looks bigger proportionally than it does on the cert (and strangely, it looks a little closer to the girdle in real life than on the cert). Marty said that the GIA plotting graphs are pretty worthless for trying to determine what the stone will actually look like.

 

[hoorray]

I would ask Marty about the reflection since he has seen the stone.

At the end of the day, you should feel good about your purchase, and not sweat the few hundred dollars. It may seem to make sense to try to minimize the additional costs now, but this is a big, important purchase, and those few hundred dollars won't make a difference in the long run.

I would lean toward keeping the stone if you can feel good about it. If not, send it back and start over.

 

[headlight]

Muppetina,
As you've come to learn, the abilities (or lack there of) in being able to locate inclusions to the naked eye are vast. This also applies to how much or how little an inclusion that can be located bothers someone.

Obviously, if money were no object we would all get VVS stones! It seems like, to me, that you are someone who would be better served with a VS (or better) stone. But, as you know, that will cost you significantly more meaning you either have to increase your budget or compromise on something else.

Yes, you might be able to find another SI stone that does work for you, but it is my guess that once you take it to the independent appraiser and they point out the inclusion(s) to you, you will once again see that/those inclusion(s) for another particular stone. And, as you pointed out, with the price increases being as rampant as they are, you will be spending even more money for basically the same "issue".

Personally, I don't have a problem knowing that my stone has inclusions and where they are located. I wanted a certain size stone within a certain budget and that meant I had to give up on some things, one of them being a stone that I couldn't find inclusions. No one else who takes a look at my ring sees them, but I know they are there and where to find them -- but I look at my ring VERY closely ALL the time. Although no one else sees them when admiring my ring, I do know that when I take my ring in for cleaning or any work, etc. I can check immediately to know I got my stone back!

Only you can decide if you can live with it. And only you can decide which will bother you more: Having an inclusion you can find or spending more money to find one in which you can't see it while compromising on size or color to upgrade clarity and stay within budget. I take it this is your first diamond -- unless you are only going to own really high clarity stones, you will come to realize that they have imperfections... after all, they are from nature!

It just depends on your expectation and tolerance; for me, I just want a big rock that sparkles -- the imperfections are just the stone's unique characteristics/markings.

 

[ame]

Id get one other appraisal before getting too freaked out. After wards if its still saying SI2 Id either return it for my money back and start shopping again or ask for a few hundred back for the difference in grade.

We bought an SI 2 that is eyeclean from the top and when mounted with it under the prong. I thought we did a hell of a job for price and quality and was glad he didn't buy an SI1 for almost 500 more that was smaller.

 

[glitterata]

You got a great price, the color is close to E, and you can only find the inclusion if you hunt for it hard. If it were me, I'd keep it.

But then, I LIKE inclusions.

If I had all the money in the world, I'd still get an SI1-I1, with an inclusion that you could see fairly easily if you knew where to look. To me, that adds interest to something that's otherwise somewhat anonymous.

 

[Rank Amateur]

If it will bug you, return it. There are lots of fish in the sea.

 

[MrsFrk]

It IS important that with a purchase as large as this, you need to be happy with what you end up buying. Glitterata makes a good point- many people worry about their stones being switched, with such a unique inclusion, you will always be able to tell your diamond from others.

I have always been under the impression that 'eye clean' meant face up from about 12 inches. If you can only see the inclusion with a light source under the diamond, I think that qualifies. You finger is going to be underneath it once it's mounted. I know that Mr. Haske is well regarded, but grading is a subjective art. The grading poll that Pricescope just completed demonstrates just that. Many people here have crowed that their stone appraised a clarity grade higher (no one complains about mis-representation in those cases, of course). If you want something without inclusions, you're going to have to pay more $$$. YOU couldn't see the feather before Mr.Haske louped it and pointed it out, could you? That to me is eye clean. You got a good deal on your stone- and it sounds like you haven't spoken to the vendor whom you purchased from. Give them a ring, and find out what they hae to say about the situation. I seriously doubt that one of the vendors here, who depend so much on word of mouth, would deliberately mislead you. I say mount that baby and get the bling on your finger pronto! Congratulations on your engagement!