Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to get!

[kal2021]

I met with a local jeweler today to discuss what I am looking for in my upgrade to a 1.5+ carat RB, excellent cut stone. He is going to get some diamonds together for me and my FI to look at next week, and I want to make sure I get the proper information from him so that I can post the stats on here to get everyone's opinions. If you've seen some of my posts lately, I have had some bad experiences recently, and I want to make sure we do not get taken advantage of again (hence my constant perusal of these forums!). I will be doing a trade in (if I like what I see), so I need to make SURE the prices he is quoting me for the stones he is offering, along with the price of the trade in, are fair. I will only be considering GIA certified stones, but I am not sure if jewelers let you take copies of the GIA reports before you purchase, so what information do I need to leave there with so I can come home and post the answers on here for some Pricescoper input??? Is it normal to ask jewelers for Idealscope images, and is it standard for most jewelers have that equipment? TIA as always!

 

[LALove]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

I'd write down the cert numbers with exact carat weight- the certs can be looked up online with that info. I'd also look at all the stones in different lighting- take them outside, check them out in a non bright area such as under a desk etc. Don't only go by how they look in the store since the lighting is set up to make even so so stones sparkle. As far as images I have no idea if that's a common practice or not but I'd ask for an ASET. I'd also take pictures so you can post them, refer back to them (close ups). Lastly, I'd make any final purchase conditional on getting an acceptable (to you) independent appraisal - not from someone at the jewelery store you're purchasing from as it's a conflict of interest.

I'd also like to compare the stones you're offered to an ideal cut if you aren't familiar with how those look to you- fire, scintillation etc. I say this because before I saw an ideal cut (AGS ideal that is) I didn't know just how awesome a diamond could look- so even a decent stone (cut) looked sparkly and nice to me.

Hopefully others with more knowledge and experience will post anything I've missed. Good luck!

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Thanks, LALove! Couple questions (for either you or anyone else who can chime in):

1. Wouldn't a GIA excellent cut be comparable to an AGS excellent cut? This jeweler seemed to think GIA was the way to go so I don't think he will have any AGS in stock.

2. If you make a purchase contingent on an independent appraisal, how would that work? Do you buy the stone, but say you will return it if the appraisal isn't accurate? I can't imagine being able to take a diamond to an appraiser without purchasing it first.

3. Is it common to ask if you can take a diamond outside? This jeweler is on the 2nd floor of an office building, so I guess we could all just walk outside together?!

Also, LALove, I am assuming you live in LA? Me, too. Have you worked with any local jewelers that you would recommend? This person I am talking to is in Beverly Hills; he works with private clients and sells to local jewelry stores. I wonder if you, or anyone else, has ever worked with someone like that in the area.

Thanks!!

 

[LALove]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Thanks, LALove! Couple questions (for either you or anyone else who can chime in):

1. Wouldn't a GIA excellent cut be comparable to an AGS excellent cut? This jeweler seemed to think GIA was the way to go so I don't think he will have any AGS in stock.

2. If you make a purchase contingent on an independent appraisal, how would that work? Do you buy the stone, but say you will return it if the appraisal isn't accurate? I can't imagine being able to take a diamond to an appraiser without purchasing it first.

3. Is it common to ask if you can take a diamond outside? This jeweler is on the 2nd floor of an office building, so I guess we could all just walk outside together?!

Also, LALove, I am assuming you live in LA? Me, too. Have you worked with any local jewelers that you would recommend? This person I am talking to is in Beverly Hills; he works with private clients and sells to local jewelry stores. I wonder if you, or anyone else, has ever worked with someone like that in the area.

Thanks!!

1. Oops- I missed that he was pulling GIA excellent cut stones. I only mentioned that because I didn't know if he was pulling GIA "very good" cuts etc. I would think you'd be safe in comparing GIA ex stones to each other. GIA Excellent is GIA's top cut grade, and AGS Ideal is AGS's top cut grade- as for how they compare-- I'll leave that question to the more educated so I don't mistakenly misinform you.

2. It differs from jeweler to jeweler. Most likely you'll have to pay for it-- but do get something in writing that you can return it in "x" number of days for a full refund. Be sure to read anything you sign (don't sign a receipt that says "final sale"). This is just what'd I'd do. I won't buy a large diamond without an independent appraisal.

3. Well, not sure if it's common (I don't really see people outside checking out stones when I drive past the many jewelry stores here) but I'd definitely do it. He can just go outside with you.

I live in MI but used to live in LA and I miss it- especially the weather. It's freezing here! I haven't made a purchase from anyone in LA.

 

[LALove]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Check this out from GOG's site (so much awesome info there) on GIA Excellent and AGS Ideal cut:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Cut/IdealCutDiamonds/

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Thanks for all of the great info, LALove! Yes, after having been on here for a couple weeks now, I am insistent on getting an Excellent (GIA) or Ideal (AGS) cut diamond. I already told him that was one of my Must Haves! I knew Ideal was the top for AGS and Excellent was the top for GIA, I just wanted to see if you thought AGS Ideal was better than GIA Excellent since you referenced the AGS Ideal, but like you said you just didn't see that he was pulling only GIA Excellents.

Well, I know LA cold is nothing compared to MI cold, but for what's worth it's quite frigid here today, too!

Does anybody else have any advice for me on what to ask for, and how to go about getting it independently appraised without buying it in full?

 

[yssie]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Get a clear cut and dry no questions asked so long as stone is in as-sold condition return policy in writing before you give them a single penny.

That is THE most important thing.


LA's idea of writing GIA/AGS report number w/ exact ct wt is a good one, or noting all listed dimensions if stone is older than 2005 (or 2006 just to be safe). For these stones you will want to know why they have been in inventory so long, or if trade-in make sale contingent on an updated report.

GIA and AGS do not use the same metrics or procedures to evaluate cut grade. AGS light performance (modern DQDs) make 0 grade contingent on excellence in 3d ray tracing simulation on those proportions, DQRs and GIA grade by proportions only. The light performance report is preferable if no other information is provided because it adds another level of reassurance - to score well, all the facets major and minor must work well together - GIA's proportions system specifies ranges for each type of facet/area of the stone but does not inherently assess how they all work together outside of some basic correlations.

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Thank you, Yssie! I was happy to see you chimed in. I will definitely make sure there is a return policy (something I did not have in the past with jewelers and it was not a good thing). When I visited the jeweler today I was thinking about what you said about a stone not having to be an H&A in order for it to be a pretty, sparkly stone - I was glad to hear you say that, because I don't feel like I HAVE to get an H&A now, just as long as all the specs are good.

 

[yssie]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Thank you, Yssie! I was happy to see you chimed in. I will definitely make sure there is a return policy (something I did not have in the past with jewelers and it was not a good thing). When I visited the jeweler today I was thinking about what you said about a stone not having to be an H&A in order for it to be a pretty, sparkly stone - I was glad to hear you say that, because I don't feel like I HAVE to get an H&A now, just as long as all the specs are good.

most well-cut modern 57/58f RBs that are graded w/ vg/ex/id physical symmetry will show some arrow formations, but most will not have well-formed hearts if you look through a hearts viewer. I do think that if H&A - or the idea of H&A - was/is important to you, if you can see some H&As in person (for ex. do you have a Hearts on Fire dealer nearby?) and compare them to a non-H&A but well cut stone of the same size, you'll be able to squelch any niggling "what if"s once and for all *one way or the other* - your eyes will tell truths that no papers and photographs can

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Good idea - I need to see about a local Hearts on Fire dealer. I live in LA so I am sure there is somewhere nearby. What do you mean by 57/58f? Is that 57 or 58 facets, or is it referring to depth and table?

 

[yssie]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Good idea - I need to see about a local Hearts on Fire dealer. I live in LA so I am sure there is somewhere nearby. What do you mean by 57/58f? Is that 57 or 58 facets, or is it referring to depth and table?

I meant facets but in a modern RB it's most likely 57 w/ a negligible culet, I just write 57/58 out of habit! Good luck in your search

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

OK, got it, thanks (still learning )!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Just want to REALLY emphasize getting a clear as a bell (complete 'for idiots' language a 2 year old could understand) return policy from this vendor in writing. Initial by the return policy and have the vendor initial it as well. I don't care if he is insulted... make him DO IT. If he's reputable, he has nothing to lose, if he's not reputable-- you need the protection. Trust me on this.

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Thank you, Gypsy, I will definitely do as you say. You are right that protecting myself is the most important thing, no matter what the seller thinks of my insistence on getting everything in writing.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Thank you, Gypsy, I will definitely do as you say. You are right that protecting myself is the most important thing, no matter what the seller thinks of my insistence on getting everything in writing.

Just wanted to make sure you keep it in mind. Sometimes when you are shopping for things that you need to research it really feels like you are juggling and have to keep a billion balls in the air. I just wanted this one to be a giant red blinking ball for you.

True story: My friend was redoing her bathroom and we went to buy tile for the floor. She's very savvy and noticed that the return policy in writing was VERY different than what the salesperson was telling her in order to make a sale (not even a big sale, the bathroom is just regular sized). She made him write down the policy as he represented it to her and sign it.

So the tile comes in, there is an issue and she calls the place up asking for a refund. They refuse her the refund over the phone. She takes her reciept with the writing and threatens them with the BBB. ONLY then did they (very reluctantly) return her tile.

And we're talking about a couple hundred doilars worth of money. Just imagine how dishonest and misleading a vendor might be over a transaction worth thousands. I'm not saying all are (just like I seriously doubt all tile vendors are out to screw thier customers)... but it never hurts to get things in writing WHILE YOU HAVE LEVERAGE (before the sale), because you never know what's going to happen after the sale.

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Oh wow, good thing your friend was so on top of it! Thanks for sharing. If I do end up purchasing a diamond from him, or anyone for that matter, should I have the stone appraised before he sets it? I'm thinking yes...

 

[LALove]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Yes take the stone to an appraiser unmounted. If it pans out and you want to keep it then take it back to be set.

 

[kal2021]

Re: Looking at some diamonds IRL, need to know what info to

Got it - thanks, LALove!