Help Me Pull The Trigger on This One Please

[shreadhead22]

About the pull the trigger on this diamond as a round center stone for another ring I'm interested in. Was trying to keep the diamond cost in the $3750 to $4250 range. Already have a ring picked out as well that I'll be placing this in, they want $2250 for the setting, and an additional $150 to set a loose diamond. Is this standard?

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5145313-1.00-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=5145313&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

https://www.josephjewelry.com/diamond-and-blue-sapphire-engagement-ring-100389?page=4

Any and all insight into both the diamond (quality versus price) and the ring setting would be appreciated. My biggest worry with this diamond is the feather line that I'm seeing on the left side of the picture of the stone, and on the GIA report. Am I correct that this will not be visible to the naked eye, just at 10K magnification?

The other two diamonds I'm considering are more expensive, have better clarity, look a little cleaner, and are a little larger, but are they worth that much more? If I'm doing my research correctly, the cut doesn't seem as good based on the HCA score. So bigger and better clarity, more money, not as good of a cut. From everyone I've read on here, cut is King. And this King wants the best for his future Queen!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5054505-1.09-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5054505&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5105989-1.05-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VVS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5105989&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Thanks in advance for any and all insight. Think I'm done my due diligence, want at least a carat, no nine points for me. Everything I've read said Medium Fluorescence is actually good with a color of H, I, or J. So I think I'm okay with it. Just trying to talk myself through an educated decision. Also, is this ring priced okay? Should I try to have another company recreate something similar?

 

[luvdajules]

I really like the setting you chose, very pretty. The J you selected is a good choice, especially with the med blue fluoro to help it when there is uv present and both help with the price. Ask b2c if it's j/k color though, seems more tinted than the other J you selected that's a bit more. For something she will wear and love maybe forever, try not to be too concerned about $500 now to get a better stone. Over the long run, it's really pretty inconsequential.

yes, it's standard to pay a small fee to set an outside stone by many vendors with settings and stones in house. Some vendors won't set outside stones, so you are lucky!

 

[shreadhead22]

As for the color, I'll definitely ask b2c about the color, but the GIA report does show it as J.

Did you look at the other stones I had listed? Not as concerned about the extra $500 at all, I was more concerned about the cut on these other two stone being inferior to the cut on the cheaper priced stone. Which of these stones would you purchase if money was not an issue.

What I liked about the 1st stone was that the cut looked great. My real only issue with it is the inclusion that is visible only via magnification. Mentally visible to me now, she may never even see it.

Any other suggestions on other diamonds in that price range with similar specs?

Thanks in advance,

-Sean

 

[CanuckAB]

That feather would bother me. In an SI1 diamond it my be noticeable. It is the grade setting inclusion.

 

[shreadhead22]

So that's a feather that I'm looking at there in the picture? When you say it's the grade setting inclusion, its it safe to assume that you mean that because of that inclusion is why it received a SI1 grade? B2C did provide me with the Heart, Arrow, ASET, and Idealscope pics, but I really have no idea how to read them.

Is that feather visible to the naked eye? It's now in my head though, probably enough for me to pass.

What does eye clean mean?

Did either of the other two diamonds I listed look like good alternate stones?

Thanks again for the input, like most of us, first time nervous buyers trying to make the best decision on something we are trying to learn on the fly...

-Sean

 

[shreadhead22]

Would this feather bother you:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5129630-1.00-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5129630&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

smaller looking on the picture, this stone is J/VS2.

Here is another option for a stone:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5084664-1.04-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5084664&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

What is it that I am looking at when I look at this picture in terms of inclusions?

If anyone out there can recommend a stone to me that has an excellent cut (most important), is at least 1.0 carat, and looks to be the best in class up to a price point of $4500, please let me know what you find. Wanna get this ordered ASAP. Have a trip in less than three weeks that I plan on bringing this ring on to make it a very memorable trip.

Thanks again all!

-Sean

 

[CanuckAB]

So that's a feather that I'm looking at there in the picture? When you say it's the grade setting inclusion, its it safe to assume that you mean that because of that inclusion is why it received a SI1 grade? B2C did provide me with the Heart, Arrow, ASET, and Idealscope pics, but I really have no idea how to read them.

Is that feather visible to the naked eye? It's now in my head though, probably enough for me to pass.

What does eye clean mean?

Did either of the other two diamonds I listed look like good alternate stones?

Thanks again for the input, like most of us, first time nervous buyers trying to make the best decision on something we are trying to learn on the fly...

-Sean

Look under the key to symbols. Inclusions are listed in the order that they are a deciding grade factor in each diamond. In this instance the feather is the first inclusion. If this were a VS1 diamond I wouldn't be concerned about it showing.

Eye clean means different things to different people. Some people do not want to be able to see anything at all upon close inspection from the top as well as the sides so they stick to VS2 and better. With effort you can find SI stones that are eye clean but you need to tell your vendor what you mean by eye clean. They may mean eye clean from 8", top only...

I'm short for time right now but will look later on at your other stones.

 

[shreadhead22]

So that's a feather that I'm looking at there in the picture? When you say it's the grade setting inclusion, its it safe to assume that you mean that because of that inclusion is why it received a SI1 grade? B2C did provide me with the Heart, Arrow, ASET, and Idealscope pics, but I really have no idea how to read them.

Is that feather visible to the naked eye? It's now in my head though, probably enough for me to pass.

What does eye clean mean?

Did either of the other two diamonds I listed look like good alternate stones?

Thanks again for the input, like most of us, first time nervous buyers trying to make the best decision on something we are trying to learn on the fly...

-Sean

Look under the key to symbols. Inclusions are listed in the order that they are a deciding grade factor in each diamond. In this instance the feather is the first inclusion. If this were a VS1 diamond I wouldn't be concerned about it showing.

Eye clean means different things to different people. Some people do not want to be able to see anything at all upon close inspection from the top as well as the sides so they stick to VS2 and better. With effort you can find SI stones that are eye clean but you need to tell your vendor what you mean by eye clean. They may mean eye clean from 8", top only...

I'm short for time right now but will look later on at your other stones.

This stone is now the stone that I'm looking at based on my requirements:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5084664-1.04-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5084664&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Anybody see anything that should make me think twice about buying this stone?

 

[CanuckAB]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-key-symbols-which-can-be-seen-most-often.201161/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-key-symbols-which-can-be-seen-most-often.201161/[/URL]

Read this. Good discussion on inclusions. There are many other threads that discuss various inclusions if you want to do a search.

Are you set on B2C for the stone? If yes, then that's where we'll look to see if there are other options.

 

[CanuckAB]

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond More info to read.


http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5084664-1.04-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5084664&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

This stone has a HCA of 1.9. I don't see any warning flags. The ASET and idealscope show some leakage around 5 o'clock but I think the diamond might be tipped a bit in the viewer. (The arrows look a little short there.) Hopefully an "expert" can shed more light on this. All I can suggest with this stone is to ask B2C if the clouds affect the diamond negatively at all. (Diminished transparency?)

 

[CanuckAB]

Ok, I would like you to consider this stone:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5085387-1.07-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI1-clarity.aspx

Before you kill me, my reasons:

It has a HCA of 0.9 (ex,ex,ex,vg). It has faint fluorescence, which you will probably never notice but it may help the J colour in the presence of uv light. It has a lovely small table. It is an SI1 with twinning wisps which, while scary looking on the plot, are one of the best inclusions to have in an SI stone. The reason it receives only a "very good" in cut is because it has thick as the upper range in the girdle. The highest grade a diamond can achieve with a "thick" girdle is a VG. At 4.5 (according to the certificate), this is a low range for a thick girdle. As you can see by the HCA and the diamond's dimensions, it is still facing up as a carat diamond so has lost very little spread. THIS GIRDLE WILL HAVE MINIMAL, IF ANY, EFFECT ON THE PERFORMANCE OF THE DIAMOND. Very good in polish is fine. You will not see the difference between very good and excellent polish. What you would need to do though is ask for the diamond's picture, ideal-scope and ASET as well as confirm that it is eye clean to your standards. Also, verify no transparency issues.

I have a 1carat diamond that only has a VG grade for cut due to the angles being at the extreme ends. It scores a 0.7 on the HCA. It takes my breath away. All I'm saying is to at least consider the diamond I've suggested.

Any diamond you decide it's a real contender, put on hold. Diamonds have a way of getting snatched up...

 

[shreadhead22]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-key-symbols-which-can-be-seen-most-often.201161/

Read this. Good discussion on inclusions. There are many other threads that discuss various inclusions if you want to do a search.

Are you set on B2C for the stone? If yes, then that's where we'll look to see if there are other options.

I'm not set on any one entity for the stone, best quality at price best gets my business. If you have other options available, please send them my way. b2c just shows up it seems the most in all of the scans I've done through PriceScope.

 

[CanuckAB]

Did you see my suggestion above?

I'll look around some more after dinner.

 

[CanuckAB]

The diamond I suggested above is less expensive when I searched via the Pricescope search engine. Use this link instead:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5085387-1.07-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=5085387&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

 

[CanuckAB]

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5054505-1.09-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5054505&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

This stone that you posted earlier only gets a HCA score of 3.6. It's in steep deep territory. Pass on it.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5105989-1.05-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VVS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5105989&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

This is also in steep deep territory and gets a HCA score of 3.6. Again, pass.

I haven't had any luck finding better options. I looked at Blue Nile & James Allen as well. The one I suggested or your other stone - http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5084664-1.04-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5084664&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com - are your best bets as far as I can tell right now. Maybe someone else will have more time to search and come up with other options. I'll check back later or tomorrow to see where you stand.

Good luck!

 

[shreadhead22]

Ok, I would like you to consider this stone:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5085387-1.07-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI1-clarity.aspx

Before you kill me, my reasons:

It has a HCA of 0.9 (ex,ex,ex,vg). It has faint fluorescence, which you will probably never notice but it may help the J colour in the presence of uv light. It has a lovely small table. It is an SI1 with twinning wisps which, while scary looking on the plot, are one of the best inclusions to have in an SI stone. The reason it receives only a "very good" in cut is because it has thick as the upper range in the girdle. The highest grade a diamond can achieve with a "thick" girdle is a VG. At 4.5 (according to the certificate), this is a low range for a thick girdle. As you can see by the HCA and the diamond's dimensions, it is still facing up as a carat diamond so has lost very little spread. THIS GIRDLE WILL HAVE MINIMAL, IF ANY, EFFECT ON THE PERFORMANCE OF THE DIAMOND. Very good in polish is fine. You will not see the difference between very good and excellent polish. What you would need to do though is ask for the diamond's picture, ideal-scope and ASET as well as confirm that it is eye clean to your standards. Also, verify no transparency issues.

I have a 1carat diamond that only has a VG grade for cut due to the angles being at the extreme ends. It scores a 0.7 on the HCA. It takes my breath away. All I'm saying is to at least consider the diamond I've suggested.

Any diamond you decide it's a real contender, put on hold. Diamonds have a way of getting snatched up...

Everything your telling me sounds great, and I'm all for trying to get the best HCA in this price range. Have to admit I know nothing about twinning wisps, and how they are one of the best to have in an SI stone. As in if you are going to have something on the plot, this is the best thing to have, correct? Asked for the pictures already. Also don't know much about how the thickness of the girdle affects the stone,

So many factors. Just looking for the best 1.0 carat or bigger diamond that has the best shine, fire, glow, and looks great for my $4K to $4.5 budget. I'll look at the pictures and see obvious inclusions at magnification, and even though they aren't visible without magnification, they all now still scare me. Want a clean diamond if I can find one, but trying to also get a 2.0 or better HCA. Am i just looking for more than my budget can accomadate?

Any other diamond ideas out there?

 

[shreadhead22]

Here is another one I found on PriceScope:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5129630-1.00-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5129630&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Feather near the 12 o'clock edge is quite visible at magnification. Other than that, this one looks like a decent option as well. Any thoughts on this one? I'm okay with Med Blue Fluorescence.

 

[Gypsy]

No idealscope image posted. Ask if they can get you one. Ask if the fluorescence is having any hazy impact on the stone (is the stone over blue). It's rare but it happens.
It's over deep and facing up small.

 

[Gypsy]

If this is eyeclean, this is a better choice; http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5158156-1.01-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5158156&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

 

[CanuckAB]

I saw that stone earlier, Gypsy. It appears that there are multiple feathers along the girdle. Would you not be concerned that this may be a durability issue just because of the shear number of them? That was my biggest concern.

 

[Gypsy]

I saw that stone earlier, Gypsy. It appears that there are multiple feathers along the girdle. Would you not be concerned that this may be a durability issue just because of the shear number of them? That was my biggest concern

No. No concern at all. It's a VS2. It will be fine. If it was an SI2 I would be concerned. But with VS, no, not even a little bit.

You have to watch for depth on your stone recommendations. We generally do not recommend stones with depths over 62.4.

 

[CanuckAB]

I agree that normally the recommended cutoff is 62.4. In this case the angles complement each other beautifully and the extra depth is in the thick girdle. Everything I read about that on this site says that there should be almost no negative effect on the diamond's performance, if any. Thick girdles usually results in a diamond facing up small for it's weight but in this case there is almost no loss of spread. If eye clean, this may end up being an amazing stone. It's at least worth looking into, especially as the VG grade and faint fluorescence result in lower cost.

 

[Gypsy]

Not one you can purchase without an idealscope image ans I doubt B2C will be able to get one on tht stone. The one I posted however is. GIA VG without idealscope is a no.HCA is not a selection tool.

 

[CanuckAB]

I was under the impression that you could request pictures of diamonds, ideal-scopes and ASETs from B2C. I already suggested that these be requested. The vendor can also be asked what their gemologist thinks of the diamond. If and when B2C states that they cannot provide images on that stone, that is when shreadhead22 would have to decide to remove that diamond from contention or order it, see it with his/her own eyes and have it checked by an appraiser. This is not a steep deep diamond. It's a well cut diamond carrying a bit of extra weight in it's girdle.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/effect-of-girdle-thickness-on-holloway-cut-analysis.19575/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/effect-of-girdle-thickness-on-holloway-cut-analysis.19575/[/URL]


Edit: to add link

 

[Gypsy]

Ok. All I am saying is this:
The stone I posted is a VS2 stone. Which you feel is unsafe due to feathers at the girdle (one mark against it). Even though many experts, including those on these boards, agree that at VS clarity feathers are non-issue and have said so and explained it. That was the stones only flaw. It has better numbers in a safer range (actually it has perfect range for 60/60 style stone) and it is more likely to be eyeclean. Additionally is a GIA Excellent Cut. So your personal preference for no feathers is the only reason you have decided that this stone is not a good recommendation. And feathers at VS2 do NOT impact performance or safety.

Instead you recommend a stone that GIA Very Good cut (one mark against it) and you don't know if it is eyeclean, as the second inclusion on the plot is a crystal (second potential mark against it) And the VG cut could mean it has a performance issue, which we would need an idealscope for, especially coupled with the depth which is 62.8.

As to the saving money point. The savings between the VS2 stone with GIA EX versus the Si1 with the VG grading is exactly $62. So not material at all.

Regarding images. Yes, B2C can sometimes get idealscopes. But not the majority of the time unfortunately. Not without the OP purchasing one or the other first, and then getting the stone sent to somewhere that they can take scans of it. So that means it is likely that he will have to pick one BEFORE the scans.

So WHICHEVER stone the OP choses he will likely do so based on the information readily available now. And in that case the stone with the VS2 feathers is the safest choice as it has no red flags that could impact performance and has a better chance of being eyeclean.

 

[CanuckAB]

Here is another one I found on PriceScope:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5129630-1.00-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5129630&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Feather near the 12 o'clock edge is quite visible at magnification. Other than that, this one looks like a decent option as well. Any thoughts on this one? I'm okay with Med Blue Fluorescence.

Ok, the new stone you brought up. HCA is 1.4. As gypsy said, you'd need to request the usual picture, ideal-scope and Aset. Re the feather, ask the gemologist if the stone is eye clean to your standards and if the feather touching the girdle is a durability risk. I agree that it shouldn't be a problem in a VS2 but just to be safe. If it wasn't touching the girdle I wouldn't bother asking.

This diamond is slightly deeper than ideal. If you check out this link, you will see that it is still within the acceptable size for a 1carat diamond. If you scroll down to the FACE UP AREA under the picture of the 2 diamonds next to each other, you'll see just how much spread is lost. (Minimal)

http://www.diamdb.com/compare/1ct-round-6.34x6.38x3.98-vs-1ct-round/

By the way, I love fluorescence!

 

[Gypsy]

Here is another one I found on PriceScope:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5129630-1.00-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5129630&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

Feather near the 12 o'clock edge is quite visible at magnification. Other than that, this one looks like a decent option as well. Any thoughts on this one? I'm okay with Med Blue Fluorescence.

No idealscope image posted. Ask if they can get you one. Ask if the fluorescence is having any hazy impact on the stone (is the stone over blue). It's rare but it happens.
It's over deep and facing up small like a .95 carat.
Again: If this is eyeclean, this is a better choice; http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5158156-1.01-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5158156&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

 

[CanuckAB]

You asked about twining wisps earlier:

"Twinning wisps do not compromise durability, they are totally internal and are nothing like a feather. Unfortunately the symbol used by GIA to designate their presence makes the stone look a lot worse in many cases. I happen to like and look for stones that are SI1-SI2 with twinning wisps because I find them to be less noticeable then similar graded stones based on crystals, feathers or clouds." From 30yearsofdiamonds, 28 April, 2014. Thread: "Clarity 'key symbols' which can be seen most often?"

 

[CanuckAB]

Ok. All I am saying is this:
The stone I posted is a VS2 stone. Which you feel is unsafe due to feathers at the girdle (one mark against it). Even though many experts, including those on these boards, agree that at VS clarity feathers are non-issue and have said so and explained it. That was the stones only flaw. It has better numbers in a safer range (actually it has perfect range for 60/60 style stone) and it is more likely to be eyeclean. Additionally is a GIA Excellent Cut. So your personal preference for no feathers is the only reason you have decided that this stone is not a good recommendation. And feathers at VS2 do NOT impact performance or safety.

Instead you recommend a stone that GIA Very Good cut (one mark against it) and you don't know if it is eyeclean, as the second inclusion on the plot is a crystal (second potential mark against it) And the VG cut could mean it has a performance issue, which we would need an idealscope for, especially coupled with the depth which is 62.8.

As to the saving money point. The savings between the VS2 stone with GIA EX versus the Si1 with the VG grading is exactly $62. So not material at all.

Regarding images. Yes, B2C can sometimes get idealscopes. But not the majority of the time unfortunately. Not without the OP purchasing one or the other first, and then getting the stone sent to somewhere that they can take scans of it. So that means it is likely that he will have to pick one BEFORE the scans.

So WHICHEVER stone the OP choses he will likely do so based on the information readily available now. And in that case the stone with the VS2 feathers is the safest choice as it has no red flags that could impact performance and has a better chance of being eyeclean.

You are assuming I have a "no feather preference". That is just not true. My own recently purchased diamond has several. In this case I was concerned due to the large number of them and that they were not only touching the girdle but also showing on both the crown and pavilion. You also talk about your diamond's perfect 60/60 numbers. The diamond I suggested also has great numbers hence the HCA score of <2. You should not automatically assume it will have performance issues. Besides, we all know that there are many GIA XXX diamonds with worse numbers compared to the VG diamond I suggested. As far as eye clean, the vendor's gemologist will have to settle that matter for what ever diamond the OP decides to pursue.

I don't get your whole 2nd paragraph. I suggested a diamond that scores <2 on the HCA. It doesn't matter that it's a VG. The pictures and scopes will tell us if it's a contender. We woud be asking the OP to request them for ANY stone that didn't have them posted already. The vendor will tell us if the stones are eye clean. I always assumed that the OP would be having the gemologist look at 2 or 3 stones and he would give his opinion. We see that a lot. Why are you so upset? You make it sound that this all has to be done because of the stone being VG CUT.

Diamonds with lower cut, clarity grades and fluorescense cost less than those without fluorescense and higher cut & clarity. That is a fact. What I do not know is if 60/60 stones also sell at a slight reduction as well. I'm hoping that this VG is an amazing diamond that is being sold at a better price because of it's girdle that is on the low end of thick, which is not supposed to decrease it's performance.

I have not seen a big issue with B2C being unable to supply pictures & scopes. I know they are trying to improve their operation so let's wait and see. If the scopes cannot be obtained then the OP will have to decide wether to choose from diamonds with the info already provided or, if he likes the specs of another stone, he can take a chance and buy it to see for himself. The stone can always be returned if it doesn't suit the OP tastes. Yes, it's a hassle so hopefully it won't come to that.

Anyway, I did not tell the OP that they must buy the diamond I suggested. I encouraged him to consider it. It may turn out to be a hidden gem (pun intended).

 

[CanuckAB]

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk