H&A certificate. Does the lab make a big difference?

[diamondheart]

So I have been looking at H&A for an ering. One is at Excel and the other at Abazias. Both have GIA and both claim H&A. The labs are different though. Abazias is from Carte Blu and the other is from Gemex. The Abazias is larger, one color grade less and a little cheaper. I am leaning toward the Abazias however will pay for Excel if his H&A are better.

Which lab is better?

What do you think the premium is around for a H&A diamond that is 1.25 carats? It seems to be around 1000 more than a regular diamond. Is it worth that much?

If I go one color lower, does H&A quality mean it may show up whiter?

 

[JulieN]

links to the stone would help figure things out.

 

[niceice]

Date: 8/3/2006 10:46:39 PM
Author:diamondheart
Both have GIA and both claim H&A. The labs are different though. Abazias is from Carte Blu and the other is from Gemex. The Abazias is larger, one color grade less and a little cheaper. I am leaning toward the Abazias however will pay for Excel if his H&A are better.

Which lab is better?

What do you think the premium is around for a H&A diamond that is 1.25 carats? It seems to be around 1000 more than a regular diamond. Is it worth that much?

If I go one color lower, does H&A quality mean it may show up whiter?

More information is required to answer any of your questions with any accuracy. First off, you state that both diamonds are GIA Graded, however this does not mean that the diamonds are "comparable" but merely that they were both graded by the same gemological laboratory. Two people can attend the same college and have different grades.

I don''t have a clue as to what Carte Blu is, but GemEx is NOT a laboratory - it is a technology. The GemEx Brilliance Scope is used by several dealers here on PS as a way of providing their customers with some insight into the visual characteristics of the diamonds that they sell. Specifically, the machine is intended to provide an indication as to the Brilliance (reflected white light); Dispersion (reflected colored light or "fire"); and the Scintillation (light resulting from the movement of the diamond and/or the movement of light around the diamond).

The GIA Laboratory does NOT provide any insight as to the presence of a Hearts & Arrows pattern, nor the precision of said H&A pattern. Ask each seller to provide you with a crisp copy of the lab report complete with a proportions analysis indicating the facet-by-facet structure of the diamond (not just the overall proportions rating) and pictures of the ACTUAL H&A patterns (not file photos) and post them here on PS along with prices and at that point other people here on the forum will be able to provide you with some insight into the difference between the diamonds.

The presence or lack of a H&A pattern is not a reliable indication as to the light return of the diamond, nor does it have a direct bearing on the color of the diamond. However, the proportions of the diamond AND the precision of the faceting and consistency of the angles that make up the high and low range that determines the average measurement of those angles that appears on the lab reports does have a direct effect on the potential light return of a diamond...

Note that we will NOT comment on the diamonds for reasons of professional courtesy, but what you need to ask for to make an accurate comparison is outlined above so that you can get the answer that you seek. Good luck! Both vendors have excellent reputations

 

[diamondheart]

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/24951.html

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=29928733&flag=ps

these are the two diamonds I am looking at.

Excel has the reports with the H&A views in links next to the diamonds.

Any input would be great!

 

[Starky]

I no nothing about diamonds, but on that first diamond under clarity chracteristics it says cloud. You might want to ask one of the expert what does that mean. It doesn''t sound good to me.

 

[diamondheart]

I asked about the clouds. He said that is only visible at 50x magnification. Barry said this.

 

[diamondheart]

I don''t know how to add the pictures. If you can tell me how I will post the reports for abazias.

 

[whatmeworry]

Hmmm... I wonder if the Carte Blu you mention is the a type of appraisal from PGS?

http://www.progem.com/carteblu.html

In PGS''s example of their Certificate of Quality Appraisal the comment says "displays Hearts and Arrows pattern". Nevertheless, the GEMEX report and the Carte Blue (of PGS) are two different animals.

 

[JulieN]

https://www.pricescope.com/forum/faq1/how-to-upload-reduce-pictures-for-posting-t41381.html for pictures

 

[diamondheart]

H&A

 

[diamondheart]

Here is the GIA Hopefullly these clouds arent'' bad. The key doesn''t show where the clouds is though. It must be small if its vs2 right?

 

[JulieN]

Don't worry about clouds in a VS1.

Those hearts and arrows pics on the PGS are going to need to be a lot bigger but from what I can see...
it displays the hearts pattern, but isn't true hearts.

 

[WinkHPD]

While these may be beautiful diamonds, neither of those pictures of the "Hearts and arrows" pattern are even close to what most Pricescopers would concider to be H&A. The hearts on the left hand picture are particularly bad and I do not see much for arrows in either pattern.

Perhaps this is just because of the small images that you have posted, but if these images are what you are seeing at larger size, then there are definitely better H&A stones available.

Frankly, the hearts in both images left and right are just two mishapen to pass for hearts and I would expect the small size of the image to hide minor defects. Just my opinion of course.

Wink

P.S. Clouds is not something you need to be concerned with here, they are tiny pinpoint inclusions that are not visually affecting the stone at the VS level. If they were significant enough to cause decrease in the visual beauty of the stone, the grade would be lower.

 

[Regular Guy]

Apologies for this sidebar...(edited to add...I reviewed the title for this post, and apologies removed!)

But, Wink, any comment on PGS system of classification (which I take from their website):

Cut Grades Three cut grades are offered by PGS: "Top Ideal Cut", "Ideal Cut" and "Premium Cut." Two cut designations are also provided: "Ideal Proportions" and "Premium Proportions."

and their application of "Top Ideal Cut" to this one?

 

[diamondheart]

So how is the excel diamond?

 

[JulieN]

beautiful hearts and arrows, but a little leakage under the table. it'll still be beautiful, but if you're paying the premium, then there's(slightly) better out there.

PS: you might LIKE this stone's personality better than others... so preference is a factor, too.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/4/2006 10:23:59 AM
Author: Regular Guy
Apologies for this sidebar...(edited to add...I reviewed the title for this post, and apologies removed!)

But, Wink, any comment on PGS system of classification (which I take from their website):

Cut Grades Three cut grades are offered by PGS: ''Top Ideal Cut'', ''Ideal Cut'' and ''Premium Cut.'' Two cut designations are also provided: ''Ideal Proportions'' and ''Premium Proportions.''

and their application of ''Top Ideal Cut'' to this one?

I would have to go look up the numbers for the stone, they are not present on the paper shown and I am running in circles, so I will decline to do that.

I will state that a stone can be a top ideal cut and not have H&A just as it can be an Excellent GIA or an Ideal AGS without the pattern.

If I were to talk with Tom or Myriam about this stone I would definitely be asking how in the heck they can call it H&A when the patterns are so skewed...

Wink

 

[diamondheart]

JulieN,
where would you look for a better value on an H&A? Which vendors are good.