Diamonds On 24Hr Hold - Seeking Input

[Mike714321]

Hello,
Some of you may have been following my other thread that is now incorrectly named "Input on BN Diamonds"...
I've placed these 4 diamonds on hold for 24 hours and need some final input on which one to get. I'm focused on the 1.11ct stone ranked 1st in my list right now because it's the largest, VS1, and same color as the others. I'm the most attached to it at this point solely because of the weight given all seem to be cut very well and the same color.

Comparison Picture of all 4 together: http://postimg.org/image/poy3ukzbj/full/

1. 1.11ct VS1 I color GIA Triple Ex with a 1.6 HCA. Pictures linked below, none at site.
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5098702-1.11-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx
Actual: http://postimg.org/image/80pa9z8gp/full/
Starting to wonder if the diamond just has some dirt or something. Lab doesn't show those specks and there's nothing in the comments about pinpoints and etc. not being shown.
IS: http://postimg.org/image/ulnf7l5ez/full/
ASET: http://postimg.org/image/z3k426kf1/full/
Arrows: http://postimg.org/image/95fg0k4dt/full/
Hearts: http://postimg.org/image/7s61vvtrv/full/

2. 1.02ct VS2 I color GIA Triple Ex with a 1.6 HCA. All pictures (less arrows) at site.
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5115883-1.02-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

3. 1.00ct VS1I color GIA Triple Ex with a 1.4 HCA. All pictures (less arrows) at site.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3100976.htm

4. 1.06ct SI1 I color GIA Triple Ex with a 1.3 HCA. All pictures at site.
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4747873-1.06-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-SI1-clarity.aspx

Link to my original thready where I was a rook, interesting to read if you want to see me become learned!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/input-on-bn-diamonds.203291/


So, what does PS think?! Which one should I send a wire transfer for?!
I've already gotten one vote for #3, the WF stone, in my other post, thanks ldj!

Thanks,
Mike

 

[tyty333]

Are you getting a setting? Who has a setting that you like?
I looked at the comparison images and they all looked
Like beautiful stones.

 

[dragonfly411]

I really like Number 3. Something about it is very appealing to me.

 

[Mike714321]

Are you getting a setting? Who has a setting that you like?
I looked at the comparison images and they all looked
Like beautiful stones.

I'm most likely getting a setting locally at a b&m store. I don't have time to custom design something and most the stuff I've seen that's not built isn't what I'm looking for, plus... I have two or three I really like that the lady has approved of. Thanks!

 

[Mike714321]

I really like Number 3. Something about it is very appealing to me.

Thanks for the input! I'm getting a lot of people saying go for the WF stone. It has a smaller table that I guess to me, doesn't seem to make a difference? But yeah, so far two votes for the WF diamond.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[SirGuy]

Hi there Mike!

I think you did a good job of rounding third here.

I don't care as much for #2 here compared to the others. I'd probably ditch #1 next.

I dig #3 and #4. I'd lean towards #3.

 

[marcy]

Hi Mike, I will cast another vote for #3. It looks like a real beauty.

 

[Mike714321]

Man, I'm starting to second guess myself. It sure feels better to know the diamond is 1.11ct vs 1.00, 1.02 or 1.06ct. But... when I get my calipers out... we're talking only a 0.23mm (9 thousandths) between the long dim on the 1.11 and the short on the 1.00ct stones. It almost doesn't seem worth it... like, how would I be able to tell 9thou in a diamond that's going to be set with a halo around it?

Also, I asked B2C, they said those are definitely pinpoints on the 1.11ct stone, but there's nothing about "additional pinpoints not shown" on the lab. Their gemologist also said there's a tiny feather (I think at 6 o'clock at the tip of the inner arrow) in it that's also not on the lab. Makes me wonder who graded this a VS1 when the 1.02ct VS2 looks cleaner. He assured me that it was eye clean from no matter what distance and that the feather wasn't an issue. I guess those are probably all true, but just makes me wonder if it'd ever grade VS2 in the future.

Hmm... now I see where the adage about mind clean comes into play.

 

[Mike714321]

Hi Mike, I will cast another vote for #3. It looks like a real beauty.

I'm in no way saying the opinions I asked for aren't good, they are, I just feel like maybe people are picking the WF stone because B2C isn't talked up as much? Haha. Or... maybe I feel that's what's happening because I'm having a hard time letting go of 1.11ct, even though in the post I just wrote, it's shockingly small. Maybe I better take a closer look at the WF again. I think I'm looking to throw out #2, it seems just "meh" to me now between the other 3. Is it just me, or do the arrows in the WF diamond look a little "fat" or something? Also, I see no "green star" around the table in the ASET of the WF diamond, red's better than green, so that'd be a plus right?

The joys of being an indecisive perfectionist that enjoys the minute details...

 

[SirGuy]

Hey Mike,

The way an ASET is constructed, green is reflected light coming from lower on the horizon around the stone. Depending on where you are and how your lighting and stone are set up, it's generally 0 to 45 degrees (0 being flat and parallel to the table).

So, red is good, and green is also good. I wouldn't necessarily want a stone with no green because that means the stone isn't doing its job of getting light from a lot of angles. #3 and #4 both have green there and I think and look pretty good in that regard.

#3 looks good. Once I saw the Ideal-Scope and ASET images for your final four, that's what I considered. I concerned myself more with spread (diameter) than weight, as you said. With a halo the difference in size is negligible when balancing against the quality of the ever-so-slightly smaller stone.

#3 looks a little better to me than #4. We're almost splitting hairs here and about at the point where PS folks are acknowledging preferences for certain types and qualities of light performance, rather than just objective "This is better than that" like we would for a total newbie. (E.g. someone comparing a HPD 0.9 G VS2 with a BGD 1.4 J SI1.)

Best of luck with your decision, my friend!

 

[Mike714321]

Thanks SG for the input. I figured that may be what's happening haha. I guess at this point I can't really go wrong with any and it's up to me to make the pick based on what I like. It seems safe to say that the 1.11ct stone will probably be perfectly fine and will probably never see the pinpoints, I'd just have to be ok knowing they're there. Otherwise, I suppose it comes down to other things like the vendor. WF does maybe seem a little more credible, at least in that I don't have to pay before I can get more real pictures since their diamond is in-house. I suppose there's also the possibility that the WF stone may also have pinpoints not plotted or mentioned, it surely is happening on the other diamond. WF said they could get me a "glam" shot but not until Monday. I guess at this point, that's my reservation on #3. I've seen a very high-resolution of the VS1 from B2C in the real picture, but also the IS, ASET, H&A, but the images on WF aren't anywhere near the same resolution. I know this is not apples-to-apples, but if I resize the 1.11 stone to the same size at the WF picture, I can't see any problems. Perhaps I ought to wait till Monday and see if I can get a high resolution image of the WF stone.

 

[Mike714321]

Well, I think I've decided to skip on #2 and maybe #4. Mostly deciding between #1 and #3. All are on hold for a few more days, and I think where I'm at is I've asked WF to get me a high resolution image of their diamond. If it looks to have similar pinpoints/inclusions to #1 then I think I'm going to go with that diamond. If it's much cleaner, I think I'm going to pass on the extra 0.11ct and go with the WF diamond. Seem reasonable?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[SirGuy]

Sounds like a good plan to me, Mike! Down to the final two. At VS1 you shouldn't be seeing any inclusions with unaided vision. The spread difference is negligible. Both are good stones. Can't wait to hear how it goes.

 

[Mike714321]

At VS1 you shouldn't be seeing any inclusions with unaided vision.

Yeah, that's a definite plus. I think what I'm fighting right now is definitely a case of "mind clean". I'm sure that even with a 10x loupe I probably still wouldn't be seeing the pinpoints in the 1.11ct diamond. The problem is that I've seen a 40x or larger picture of it and now I can't un-see it So I think that's why I'm going to make myself un-see a huge picture of the other WF stone. If it turns out to also have things that make it not mind-clean, then I know I'm just splitting hairs and I think I'll go with the larger!

Every woman I've gotten input from has said they wish theirs was larger and a few jewelers said that they always have people coming back in to upgrade to larger, but that may be a sales tactic. I'll take a woman's word on diamonds. I wish it'd hurry up to Monday for some pictures!

 

[SirGuy]

I like your attitude, Mike. The two stones are basically the same size. Let me put it this way: if you proposed with #3 and then upgraded at five years (due to DSS) to #1, she'd say, "This isn't any bigger!"

You're in the right place regarding cut over the other C's. I think you're starting to appreciate the difficulty of "eye clean" versus "mind clean."

The ASET on number #3 seems a bit preferable to me, but you're right that overall the stones are both more like each other than they are different compared to other stones you were considering early on.

With a halo, you very likely won't notice the very slight difference in spread. I honestly wouldn't let that misleading carat weight difference sway your decision this close to the end. Whichever one has the best performance and logistical details like return policy, within your budget, is the way to go. Unless you increase your budget another fifteen or twenty thousand dollars, you won't have IF for the best "mind clean." However "mind clean" is different for everyone; I just wouldn't compromise on cut for that, personally. I feel comfortable around VS2 for most options.

With the vast majority of stones you're going to see something under intense magnification. You won't see it in real life.

 

[Mike714321]

I think I'm coming around on the size difference which basically leaves me at which one is cut better. As previously mentioned, and beaten to death, both appear to have great cut in comparison to everything else I've found. I guess I'm just not sure how to technically determine which has a better cut between the two.

The WF stone's ASET image looks to be more "centered" if that makes sense. Like it has a better radial pattern around the center point of the table. However, in between the arrows, the little green parts seem to be kind of unique between each arrow. Alternatively, the B2C diamond seems to be "off-center" or something, primarily visible in the 8-point green star shaped outline around the table. At the 2 o'clock position it's almost non-existent but at 9 o'clock position it's very fat.

One thing I can't get over is that the WF one, with it's small table, really looks like an eyeball, with the table facet and inner arrows being the pupil and the rest being the iris. I don't get that impression with the B2C diamond. It also seems like the WF diamond has uneven contrast, specifically the outer arrows don't match the contrast level of the inner arrows. I don't know if that's just photography or what, but the B2C diamond's contrast in the inner and outer arrows seems more balance, the darkness level is about the same between them if that makes sense. Again, perhaps that balance is due to photography?

I do like the fact that there's a large difference in $/carat weight between the two, it's a clear difference. I have no idea how much weight it carries, but it would seem that the WF diamond would have to be, overall, better "material" because of the higher $/ct value. Then again, this may be arbitrarily higher because maybe WF charges a little more than B2C because they feel they can demand it or they value their service more.

I've asked WF to send me a picture in comparable size/resolution to the B2C diamond so that I can get a closer look at their stone. Hurry up Monday!!!

 

[Mike714321]

I think I've made my decision. I'm going to purchase the diamond from WF, the 1.00 VS1 Triple Ex I color. I got some additional pictures today and they look much "cleaner". The SARIN report shows it's 1.008ct so rounding it's a 1.01ct which is better than a 1.00ct
I hope I'm blown away when I receive it, the "glam shot" of it I received look great!

Thanks for everyone's input here. I'll be sure to post photos when I receive it. I'll be taking it to a local shop for inspection after I get it. I still need to figure out the insurance aspect while getting the diamond set, but hopefully the jeweler who sets it will cover it. As previously mentioned, I'll either go with jewelers mutual if I can get short term coverage and then switch to my insurer or I may try getting it set in something cheap/simple and then covered by my insurance, then have it set in the final ring.

Thanks again everyone!
Mike

 

[SirGuy]

Mike,

That's great news, my friend! I think you've done a great job these last few weeks with picking up knowledge and applying it efficiently. It can be a bit overwhelming at times, especially if concepts that follows rules in other trades frustratingly refuse to apply here.

I am looking forward to your post when you get it in and get a chance to look at it with your own eyes. I suspect at first there will be a reaction like, "That's it? It's the size of a pencil eraser!" But when you get it in the lights, and then finally in a proper setting, you'll see why you made the choice you did.

 

[Mike714321]

I suspect at first there will be a reaction like, "That's it? It's the size of a pencil eraser!"

That's funny you say that because I was just talking with one of my coworkers about this and laughed that when I get it I'll be slightly shocked that I was nitpicking pinpoints and 0.009" in diameter change over something so small!

Upon request, they've added a "glam" shot of the diamond to the website if you want to check it out again.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3100976.htm

If anyone is wondering, I was told they no longer do a PS discount, but instead they lowered all their prices so everyone gets them. I was also given a small discount with my first purchase and creating an account on their website. I didn't make the cutoff for the wire transfer today, but it's happening first thing in the morning!

Thanks,
Mike

 

[marcy]

It looks like a great diamond.

 

[Mike714321]

It's here! Can't wait to get out of work to go pick it up. Then straight to a jeweler for inspection! I'll be posting pictures soon!
Thanks,
Mike

 

[SirGuy]

Awesome, Mike! Can't wait to hear more.

 

[Mike714321]

It's beautiful! It's also.... so small! haha! It looks great, I'm really excited! I wish I had better pictures, just shot these with my camera phone! I'll have to borrow a camera from work for better photos. Can't wait to get clearer photos.
http://s29.postimg.org/fpbagrr13/IMG_20140710_162813055_HDR.jpg
http://s16.postimg.org/dtr2rmx5h/IMG_20140710_174202897_HDR_Copy.jpg
http://s8.postimg.org/y8y9l65cl/IMG_20140710_174248273_HDR_Copy.jpg

I'm totally glad I went with this over the 1.11ct stone as I know all those tiny tiny pinpoints aren't there. Also, I can't even tell that the table is smaller and looks like an "eye" like I previously mentioned. I haven't been able to see any of the arrows, but I don't have any tools to properly hold the stone nor look at it under magnification.

I picked it up from FedEx (padded envelope inside a medium box inside a large box, great packaging!) and immediately took it to a GG (GIA) who checked it out for me. Inscription is correct on it and all seems to be as advertised! She kinda gave me a hard time about buying online and why I hadn't looked there first. She even got out a bunch of stones to see if she had anything comparable, most were VS2s and she was rattling off "triple ex" but as I've learned, just cause it's triple ex doesn't mean it's automatic great. She looked at some chart she had and it said that market price was a little over $7,200 for it I believe.

Anyway, I'm pretty much set on the mounting I want except that it's white gold and not platinum. I can afford platinum but she said it may be 5-6 weeks for delivery. Fingers crossed when she calls me back tomorrow they maybe have one in platinum already!
Immediately went and put it in the safety deposit box at the bank; ya never know what could happen!

I also just paid and applied for Jewelers Mutual so that I can have it insured before it's set. The lady said I would have to sign a release before they set it so I figured I'd get this going before it's set, then update later once it's set.

Hurray!
Thanks,
Mike

 

[SirGuy]

Sounds like it's a little fireball, Mike! You're right that it's hard to get good photos. Your camera doesn't necessarily know where to focus; it's seeing through the stone and picking up internally reflected light, which isn't the easiest thing to get in focus!

I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to hold your own with the gemologist. You are definitely ahead of the curve for your informed decision compared to the vast majority of consumers.

I'd recommend platinum if it's doable. It's a better metal for prongs and such. It's more expensive but you get what you pay for. Knowing how tiny the stone is, the prongs are even tinier. Tough metal is a good thing there. Both gold and platinum are great choices; just that all things being equal platinum is generally preferable.

Good call on getting it in the safety deposit box and working on insurance. I'm sure it was hard to put it down for too long!

 

[Mike714321]

Ugh, I know! I'm wishing so bad I had it here so I could look at it instead of being put away in a dark cold metal box!
Regarding the mounting, I really really like that one the most I think. It's really unique with the basket and the detail in it. I found it online after I called up the store to find out who the designer was.
http://www.trueromance.net/product/RM1360CU
http://www.theknot.com/gallery/wedding-rings/true-romance/rm1360cu

Good news is that it has a matching band, the bad is that... it'd probably look terrible wearing the band alone. I dunno what she'd prefer, wear both or none, or if she'd ever want to just wear her band. And that ties in with the white gold vs. platinum. Re-crunching my numbers, getting it in platinum is still something I can afford, but it wasn't in my initial budget by a about $500. However, being a rookie, I never budgeted for a band. I'm assuming the matching band is about $500 in white gold. If I get the e-ring in platinum I assume I'd want the band to also be platinum and at that point I dunno what the band's cost would be; $1,000? $1,500? If that's the case, now I'm pushing my budget beyond a little stretch. I dunno if it's at all common or "smart" to get the e-ring in platinum but the band in white gold?

Then I was thinking, and again, not sure how "common" this is, but if I get the e-ring and matched band in white gold, that's easier on the wallet, and then perhaps I could also get her a flat band so that if she wanted to wear only the band it wouldn't be the matched one that's got the wave in it. If she's only going to wear both or none (work) then I just go with the white gold in both e-ring and band and my budget is only stretched slightly.

I was kinda leaning towards "if they end up having this in platinum and they just need to ship it I'll go for the platinum, otherwise, if there's a long lead time, white gold." But now that I think about the extra cost in the band to get it to match, I think I'm looking a the white gold.

Or... scorched earth method... buy in white gold and if later on it's getting worn or something... get the same band again but in platinum and I guess pawn/scrap the white gold!

Thoughts? Gah! Wish I had that diamond with me! And some special diamond tweezers! Whiteflash was awesome and is sending me a 10x loupe. I thought my order came with one but turns out it's only on their A CUT ABOVE diamonds, but they are sending one anyway! May have to borrow the camera from work tomorrow and get a private room in the vault for us...

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Mike714321]

Oh, also... she took the CZ out of the mounting and just laid my diamond in the prongs. At first I could see the difference in colors (G in the shank vs. my I) and was immediately a little bummed. After a little bit though I seemed to not notice it as much. Maybe it was the store room lighting? I asked the lady if it'd be a good idea to use H or I in the shank instead of the G and she said absolutely not. Is this wise advice or is she saying keep the G's to keep the price a little higher? Or maybe she can't change them out for something warmer? Is it typical for b&m stores to receive mountings "complete" or would they get the mounting in and put in the smaller ones in house? I guess maybe the real question is.. is it better to try and "mask" the center stone's color with brighter accents or match them even if it's a "downgrade"? Not sure if it matters, but the jeweler is Distinctive Diamonds, not Kay or something.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Mike714321]

More pictures! Still could probably get better, but at least they're not taken with my phone!
http://s16.postimg.org/4litagv9f/IMG_0022b.jpg
http://s9.postimg.org/4gtuk8cgd/IMG_0042b.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/unj6lap1p/IMG_0055b.jpg
http://s12.postimg.org/dlt8q07q5/IMG_0058b.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/q33j0ma6b/IMG_0062b.jpg

These were taken in a poorly lit tiny room inside. Some I had the flash on too. I think it looks great!

I heard back from the jeweler today, she said that she can get me the platinum setting in about 3 weeks maximum and she'd give me a deal on it for $1,900. The 14k white gold was selling for $1,200. I still don't know what the matching band costs in white gold or platinum. She guessed between $900 and $1,100. Seems like a good deal on the e-ring. I could buy the band at a later date to make it seem like I"m not spending as much. Or... maybe I could come back with a deal for both the e-ring and band together at the same time with cash? Does the diamond market cut deals with cash like you can do with cars?!

Also, I'd really love to hear if anyone has thought on my previous post about the color of the accent diamonds in the shank.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[SirGuy]

Hi Mike,

Cool photos! I'm sure it's a little sparkler.

Regarding platinum versus white gold, make sure the dimensions are the same when comparing prices. I wouldn't want a jeweler to make a thinner ring just because of the material difference.

For the engagement ring and the wedding band, some folks don't mind a little air space between them on the finger, and some like it when they touch (which I call kissing). If you want them to touch, make sure you've had both the engagement ring and the band designed for this from the beginning. It is much easier to accomplish when the jeweler knows ahead of time that they'll be a matched set, as there may be certain subtle dimensional changes needed for it.

About the different color grades for the shank stones and the main stone, many folks have the lower color grade stone in the middle with higher color grade stones in the shank. It's all about what you like. I wouldn't look too much into whether it's a sales tactic if it's compromising what you think would be more visually appealing. If you think it looks bad, then there's your answer.

I'm not your financial advisor, but I would urge caution about the ever-increasing budget. It's a budget for a reason. Worst case you get the stones in the shank replaced later, but that's worst case here. Go outside into other lighting to get an idea of the difference in color. I recommend this for any stone evaluation. Indoors, outdoors, diffuse lighting, spotlighting, warm and cool tones, fluorescent versus incandescent versus LED, etc.

 

[Gypsy]

Let her pick her own band.

I'd buy platinum if you can wait.
SirGuy has a great point about your budget. Please be careful.

 

[Mike714321]

Just to let everyone know... decisions have been made and things have been ordered/received. I really really want to upload pictures but I've become paranoid that she's somehow found this website and wishing I could change my username! I'll post images once she's gotten it or I'll crack and post up a couple before. I will say though, I'm really happy with what I've ended up with!

Also, I dunno if it means anything that the other 3 stones I had posted are still for sale.... were they bad? Or is there just so much out there that they've been looked over? Seems like there'd be a good chance they'd be taken since they're posted on PS... oh well, the spoils of war!