Can someone explain FedEx holding stations to me?

[raddygast]

I have heard about these. I.e. a stone is shipped to one of them (basically for international customers). The customer crosses over into the US ostensibly as a tourist, goes to the holding station, and signs for the package, inspects the stone, and if there is a serious defect, ships it back right away. Otherwise, he/she takes the stone into possession, and crosses back into his own country (usually Canada).

If the stone is not declared as a new purchase, this can end up saving hundreds, possibly thousands (for you diamond nuts) in taxes and duty. I know some people do allow shipping to these locations.

My question is: where can I find out about these? I''ve searched google and the FedEx site for more info, to no avail. I need to know what is involved, and where the closest location would be to me in Toronto. I am hoping something on the American side of Niagara Falls, because then the trip is quite plausible for "touristy" reasons.

 

[totalnoob]

Any FedEx location can do this, but it has to be a staffed FedEx location, not an authorized ship center. The sender just puts the address of the FedEx location and marks "hold at FedEx" on the airbill. It will be held there for 5 business days. You need ID to pick it up. I don't know if they would accept a Canadian ID. I suppose you'd have to call and ask. I have had this done at my local FedEx, since I wouldn't be home to sign for it.

More info: http://www.fedex.com/us/services/options/express/hold.html

 

[diablo]

You also need to register the address of the Fedex office as an authorised shipping address with your credit card company before you order. I would imagine your Canadian passport would be sufficient ID to collect the shipment. If it''s good enough to get you into the country it should be good enough to collect the shipment. I intend using my foreign passport to collect a shipment from Fedex in NY next week.

 

[perry]

Is the $$$$ saved by not paying the legitimate duty going to be enough to offset the consequences of being audited, fined, and possibly prosecuted, etc. if you are caught.

Integrity is more important to a long term relationship than any other quality (my opinion). You either have it or you do not. I cannot imagine starting a relationship based on what you propose.

Perry

 

[Daniela]

Date: 12/10/2004 7:29

8 AM
Author: perry
Is the $$$$ saved by not paying the legitimate duty going to be enough to offset the consequences of being audited, fined, and possibly prosecuted, etc. if you are caught.


Integrity is more important to a long term relationship than any other quality (my opinion). You either have it or you do not. I cannot imagine starting a relationship based on what you propose.


Perry

I don't think he's going to rot in prison for this one. Besides, he wasn't asking for moral advice.

As another poster mentioned, any FedEx location can do this. Go on the FedEx website, search for locations (click "staffed" or whatever) and it will give you locations in Niagara Falls, New York. It's really as simple as that. Pick one you like and that's it. Really, it's not that complicated.

Edited to add that after a cursory search, here's what I found in Niagara Falls, NY:

FedExStaffed
FedEx Kinko's
1060 Niagara Falls Blvd
Tonawanda, NY 14150

So there you go!

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/10/2004 8:13:12 AM
Author: Daniela

I don''t think he''s going to rot in prison for this one. Besides, he wasn''t asking for moral advice.

Raddgast asked for (and got) specific advice on how to commit a federal crime. In the US it''s called felony tax evasion, I don''t know what the Canadians call it. The fact that the chances of prosecution are low is irrelevant. People are remarkably unaware that what is being discussed here is criminal and, at the very least, it''s reasonable for advisors here to point this out in addition to supplying the details about how to do it.

I"m with Perry. Pay your taxes.

Neil Beaty
GG ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[diablo]

Kind of ironic to be lectured on ethics and integrity in relation to paying import taxes on diamonds. As diamond consumers we are all supporting the diamond industry and the human rights abuses associated with the mines in Africa and "conflict diamonds". So my conscience is clear as long as I pay the taxes ? ho ho ho!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

As a Canadian I have weighed this many times and have always decided that paying the applicable duty/taxes is a good deal less painful/troublesome/time consuming than the consequences of the alternative.

cheers--Sharon

 

[RockDoc]

I had an acquaintance, who is Canadian come to the states and then drove back to Canada.

Turns out they didn''t get the proper paperwork in order, and the Canada Customs impounded the car. It took them a year to get it back with lots of attorney fees and expense.


Based on that, not only can you be charged with whatever Canadian Customer laws are, but also you could lose the item tpp.

Most American sellers aren''t familiar with Customs rules and may not know why you are picking it up in the US. It isn''t their responsibility to make sure duty is paid on an item, as it is the foreigner who is doing the deed to shoulder the responsibility of paying what taxes and duties that are imposed.

It isn''t the sellers responsibility to be a Customs officer. The choice as how it is brought in to a foreign country is the decision that a purchaser needs to make.

Rockdoc

 

[i_like_tiffany_please_dont_hate_me]

If your vendor of choice is willing to help you commit a crime, what else would they be willing to do to turn a quick buck??

feydakin - oh come on, face it, some people will do anything to turn a quick buck. many (most?) people have no concept of honour, decency, integrity, dignity or respect.

raddygast - IMHO, pay the taxes or get a ring in Canada.

Luke 20:25 "He said to them, ''Well then, pay Casear what belongs to Caesar - and God what belongs to God"

the taxes may be a $1000, but what price your honour?

if you don''t like paying import taxes, vote for the Conservative Alliance (or whatever they call themselves these days)

that said, I do understand why you are considering it, I live in the UK, and if I were to ship a ring from America I would be walloped with customs duties and excise taxes of 40% of the value of the ring. luckily (for me

), my gf is American, and I''ll be over there with her when I get the ring

 

[raddygast]

Thanks: totalnoob, diablo, Daniela!

Imagine my surprise to discover that so many Pricescopers would turn out to be moral crusaders of the highest and most patronizing order. That is especially rich on a site devoted to consumer education and the quest to always get the absolute best bang for the buck.

Am I to assume you are all the type to turn yourself in to the police whenever you notice your speedometer crawling above the limit? Or that when, forced by circumstances and temporal emergencies, you park illegally, and then return to your car to discover you have not received a ticket, you immediately phone up the authorities and inform them of your transgression, insisting that you should pay the appropriate fine?

Have none of you ever ordered anything online, say on Ebay, from a European or Canadian vendor, and had it arrive at your residence without being picked up, inspected, and taxed by your own country? In those cases do you immediately phone the item in and pay your dues? I doubt it. You thank your stars that you were lucky this time, and leave it at that. I''m pretty sure import taxes are designed with that in mind: that they only catch a certain percentage of what crosses the border, but that each "caught and assessed" item yields enough compensation for a good number of its "scot-free" contemporaries.

Of course I realize that technically, doing what I propose is not legal. Maybe I''m naive, but I doubt I''ll be going to jail if caught. The worst thing that could happen is confiscation, but more realistically I''d end up paying the duties on it, and some extra administrative slap on the wrist, before I got it back. Most likely, nothing will happen at all. We''re talking about a tiny stone that can fit in my pocket. I could even have it set in a temporary inexpensive silver setting, and wear it across (though it would look strange on a guy I admit).

The taxes Canadians end up paying (according to my research) amount to something like 25% of the purchase price. Can any of you honestly say that you would gladly pay that tax if you thought it could be avoided? Did you know that the Canadian Jewellers'' Association is constantly lobbying members of parliament to get the finance minister to reconsider the 10% excise tax on jewellery and gemstones? It hurts their business rather severely.

I would not object too much to the regular 15% federal and provincial sales taxes that get applied to pretty much everything. But an extra 10% on that is going too far. With a relatively high-dollar item (for me -- despite my age I am still starting out in life, and due to my circumstances am on a very limited budget) the taxes simply throw this item over the edge of affordability for me.

Imagine this. You take a trip to Thailand. Buy some magnificent ruby in Bangkok, have it appraised, inspected, and finally set in Thailand. You put it on your lady''s finger, everything is great, then you both return to the USA. Would you all immediately declare this item? I seriously doubt it. Something like a ring can be worn on a finger as if you had entered the country with it anyway. Diamondgeezer: you say your GF is American? Well, great. If you plan to get married and return to the UK with her, are you going to blurt out to the customs officers upon re-entry to Britain that "oh by the way, that big rock was purchased in the US, please sir can I fork over several thousand dollars to you now?".

And what about clothing? Have none of you ever bought a few baseball caps, or sweaters, or cheesy theme t-shirts in a foreign country, and returned to your own while wearing them? Do you inform the customs officer "sir, I bought this t-shirt, and five pairs of underwear." Again, I doubt it. Unnecessary delay and expense.

Granted, driving a CAR into another country is a big deal. I would never try to avoid taxes on something so obvious and conspicuous. But we''re talking about a tiny little stone here.

Finally, I would like all of you who insinuated that my vendor is crooked to issue at the very least some sort of retraction. You should conduct yourselves with more integrity on a public forum. I mentioned nothing about the vendor: how do you know, for example, that I was not warned against this? Why would you assume that the vendor suggested it? Let''s be absolutely clear. A vendor can ship wherever the customer asks him/her. If I said "ship it to my aunt in the US" would they have the right to refuse me, even if they knew that I was going to pick it up there and take it across the border myself?

The responsibility of the vendor is to ensure that no funny business is going on. They are doing nothing illegal by shipping the item within the United States. From then on it is entirely the responsibility of the customer to pay applicable duty and taxes, if any.

I am an adult, and I consider myself morally responsible. That said, as an adult I realize that morality, like anything else, is about picking one''s battles. It is more important to me, for example, to bill hours of work very accurately (even when I know there is almost no possibility of discovery if I overbill, and that is quite common practice) than it is for me to voluntarily pay a 25% charge on a gemstone sent to me from the US, when this is a one-time purchase and I am unlikely to ever import a gemstone again in my life. Doing the ethical thing is important in the big picture, but if we all did everything by the book, well, I''ll leave you all to imagine that world privately. Some of you would probably even like it!

Finally, I should say that this is not a "conflict diamond." Nor is it a diamond at all, despite my posting here (there is more traffic on this forum, hence more advice, and what applies to diamonds applies logistically here as well). If I wanted a diamond, I would be happy to support Canadian industry, despite the huge price premium, by buying a diamond from the Ekati mine in the Canadian north. Those polar ice diamonds are really becoming world-renowned, and it would please me to support the economy and specifically the economy of the Northwest Territories and indirectly the indigenous aboriginal population by doing so (though there is some debate about whether this mine has impacted them positively or not).

But what I''ve been looking for is so ridiculously impossible to find, so rare and so elusive that I have had to resort to US vendors. Believe me, I have tried locally, but have been phenomenally unimpressed by what I was able to see, here in arguably the biggest and most important city in Canada regarding luxury goods.

canuk-gal: I appreciate your advice since it does not come with any simultaneous moralizing. Obviously it has to be considered as a calculated risk. There is a chance that it is more trouble than it is worth (maybe far more). Maybe in the end I will do things by the book. But asking for information can''t hurt, can it?

Finally, I have to say (as a consumer, not as a citizen of a responsible Western nation) that living in Canada is not very convenient. Aside from price, there are simply many specialty items that are not found over here. I always try to find a Canadian vendor or ebay seller in the country for whatever it is I look for. I would say about 95% of the time that search is in vain, and I end up shopping across the border. I really don''t know what NAFTA actually did, but it certainly didn''t benefit small sellers of consumer goods and their potential clients across the border.

 

[fire&ice]

Am I to assume you are all the type to turn yourself in to the police whenever you notice your speedometer crawling above the limit? Or that when, forced by circumstances and temporal emergencies, you park illegally, and then return to your car to discover you have not received a ticket, you immediately phone up the authorities and inform them of your transgression, insisting that you should pay the appropriate fine?

Precisely. It always blows my mind about this righteous indignation about taxes. Geez, you aren''t the first person to get called on the carpet. IMHO, such energy should be spent typing a note to a service man, or visiting a shut-in. To even go a step further, how many people are typing those righteous indignation reponses on COMPANY TIME? Anyone answering yes, go to your boss immediately & confess that you have stolen from him (time on the clock that is).

Oh and BTW, any of you posters who may have an engagement ring over 11k and plan on getting married the following year - you must declare it as income on your 1040. I''m sure you will dying to do that. If you don''t, you are a cheat.

We all do things that are technically illegal. My moral compass is a little more focused.

 

[raddygast]

thank you fire&ice. You managed to communicate, in about 1/10th the time, what I was trying to capture in my post, only yours was much more direct and convincing.

 

[i_like_tiffany_please_dont_hate_me]

But when we see threads like this next to threads like ''I got screwed by my jeweler'', it makes me wonder where they think the line in the sand should be drawn..

caveat emptor

 

[silentbob]

Also, just to keep in mind, even in the US, if you buy a diamond from out of state (I would be willing to bet the majority of GOG, niceice, whiteflash, DCD, etc customers), you are REQUIRED BY LAW to report it on your state tax return and pay a Use Tax on it. Not doing so is TAX EVASION. As far as I know, this is true in every state that has a state sales tax.

For every single person on pricescope that bought a ring out of state, how many did this?

I have no problem with people informing the poster that his acts are illegal, but the holier than thou attitude is disgusting.

If you want to get biblical, Luke 6:42 "How canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me cast out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite!"

 

[i_like_tiffany_please_dont_hate_me]

raddy - no, we will be staying in the US and it seems like you are prepared to accept the consequences, I wish you the best luck.

fire - actually, no, I don''t steal from my employer, in fact I feel strongly against it. but when I see co-workers effectively stealing, it doesn''t bother me cos I am a subjectivist/Austrian, whatever you wanna call it. what they do is between them and work. but if people are on a salary, they are not stealing, except perhaps in terms of energy used to power the pc... but that is taking honesty to an extreme degree that borders on self-flagellation!

 

[i_like_tiffany_please_dont_hate_me]

I have no problem with people informing the poster that his acts are illegal, but the holier than thou attitude is disgusting.

If you want to get biblical, Luke 6:42 ''How canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me cast out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite!''

I do not believe I was judging him, I certainly did not intend it to come across that way. re-reading my post, yes, I did go too far. flabby, I apologise unreservedly for impuning your honour.

however, just because we are all sinners does not mean that we can not point out to others the error of their ways, it is judging people and placing oneself above another that is condemned in the mentioned passage.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 12/10/2004 4

6:42 PM
Author: diamondgeezer

fire - actually, no, I don''t steal from my employer, in fact I feel strongly against it. but when I see co-workers effectively stealing, it doesn''t bother me cos I am a subjectivist/Austrian, whatever you wanna call it. what they do is between them and work. but if people are on a salary, they are not stealing, except perhaps in terms of energy used to power the pc... but that is taking honesty to an extreme degree that borders on self-flagellation!

Oh I get in now. *You* are the one who determines *what* constitutes stealing.

Now I''ve seen righteous indignation risen to a true art form.

 

[i_like_tiffany_please_dont_hate_me]

well if they are on a salary, they are not being paid by the amount of time they work, but by the work they produce, they will get the same wage if they work 3 hours a week or 30 hours a week or 60 hours a week, providing the work was the same, so no, I don''t think it is stealing...

 

[Rank Amateur]

F & I, the Moral Smuggler!

She toils away in vain, in utmost secrecy!

She''s up she''s down, she''s all around

Beware! Beware! Beware!

 

[perry]

Fire & Ice & Raddygast:

A couple of points:

1) I have never done this on company time. I only log onto my private stuff when I get home.

2) My state has a line on its state tax forms to report internet purchases and pay the sales taxes for out of state internet purchases. I pay mine.

3) When I traveled overseas during my Military service I declared everthing over the limits properely upon return to the US.

3) There is a difference between finding out that you have done, or are involved, in something that wasn't totally legal - and setting out to break the law in the first place. I believe that you will find the police and judge also consider that there are vast differences. There are also specific legal rulings on certain things that if you recieve something that you did not specifically order that you are not obligated to pay for it (and other related matters).

4) Arguing that there are shades of grey in the world, and thus it dosn't matter what you do because how do you sort out those shades of grey has long been recognized as not being a valid ethical or legal argument (and if I wanted to I could dig up my College textbook on "Theroy and practice of argument and debate" and find the exact reason why.

5) My understanding of the US Tax code on expensive gifts, which includes engagment rings, is that there have been court rulings on this issue. They are even buried here in PriceScope.
The courts have ruled that the engagment ring is the property of the Man, and only loaned to the Woman, up to the weading. Once Married the ring is a gift from the husband to the wife coincident with the completion of the marriage vows. The result is that an expensive engagement ring is not subject to gift taxation at all because there is no dollar limit on gifts between husband and wife - and does not have to be reported on the income tax form.

6) I am not the best on quoting the Bible, but in my reading and study of it I came away with the clear impression that it says that you have a responsibility to inform others when they are going astray, and advise on ethical standards as apprpriate to the situation.

7) I mentioned above how I feel about the suggestion. Only you can apply those same standards to yourself. If you feel that they "chaffed" a bit when you read them- that is a problem with yourself, not me.

I am aware that others of you may choose to live by different standards than I. That is your choice; just please don't complain and blame others when things don't go your way. And please, don't try to justify your actions either.

One thing I have learned is that we all make mistakes, and life has been so much better once I started admitting them.

Perry

 

[Rank Amateur]

I think taxing imported goods is immoral.

 

[strmrdr]

This thread is fuuunnnnyyyy.
Now to incert a dose of reality.
Want to legaly import it to Canada no tax?
Personal jewlery does not have to be declared at the border every customs form Iv seen excludes it.
Bring her with to the US propose here and give it to her.
She legaly wears it back across the border.

ps. dont consider this legal advice and if they have changed the laws recently its your problem. yada yada legal mumbo jumbo.

 

[solange]

I am not going to express an opinion as to morality or legality. We should each do what we feel is right for us.
The only point I would like to raise is if the vendor is somehow aware of this deal and has done it before, can he be trusted? A few years ago, several of the top Manhattan jewelers engaged in the common practice of either shipping an empty box or cheap merchandise to an out of state address and permitted the customers to leave with the untaxed merchandise. (This is a very common practice in many businesses such as furs, antiques, clothing--where expensive items are sold and most people get away with it). Many celebrities and well known people were named in the press as a result of this crack-down which was a set-up.

If your vendor does this frequently for Canadian clients and gets caught , I believe he would be required to give the names of all the clients for whom he performed this service. One unhappy ex-wife or disgruntled employee can be all that it takes to turn someone in--look at Leona Helmsley. I believe many people are honest simply because they do not wish to get caught and face what could be an unpleasant situation or have their name involved in a scandal.

I live in Manhattan and am probably paranoid because there are so many scams so if you are willing to take a chance, just ignore the above. I would not do it. But then I was once falsely arrested for stealing a $1.99 package of candy from a local supermarket and I cannot tell you how mortified I was! If I did anything like what you mentioned, I would probably get life in prison.

 

[raddygast]

I remember this "scam" too, with computer parts. Many many years ago, I lived in one city that basically borders on a neighbouring province. The computer stores there (some of them, mind you) would actually sell you an item with only federal tax, no provincial sales tax, if you could provide them with a mailing address in the neigbouring province.

They would give you the item tax-free, then send a box packed with styrofoam and a busted hard drive from 1982 or something. Of course, if they had been caught ,it would be terrible for them.

But let me ask you guys this. The above scenario is probably too irresponsible and shady for me now, but how about a modification (which I used on many occasions)? I actually asked them to ship the ITEM itself to a cousin who lived 15 minutes from my house, but across "state lines." That was perfectly legit, because I would basically pose as a "buyer" handling the details for them. When the item arrived, I''d drove over there to pick it up, saving 8% in the process.

If I were as goody-goody as you guys, I would never consider that... but clearly there is a line to be drawn somewhere, and we all have the right to draw it where we please.

 

[Superidealist]

Date: 12/10/2004 3

4:25 PM
Author: raddygast

Imagine my surprise to discover that so many Pricescopers would turn out to be moral crusaders of the highest and most patronizing order. That is especially rich on a site devoted to consumer education and the quest to always get the absolute best bang for the buck.

If this is the goal, may I suggest stealing the diamond at gunpoint? You''ll never get a better price.

 

[raddygast]

Date: 12/10/2004 10

9:53 PM
Author: Superidealist

Date: 12/10/2004 3

4:25 PM

Author: raddygast


Imagine my surprise to discover that so many Pricescopers would turn out to be moral crusaders of the highest and most patronizing order. That is especially rich on a site devoted to consumer education and the quest to always get the absolute best bang for the buck.

If this is the goal, may I suggest stealing the diamond at gunpoint? You''ll never get a better price.

Ok, this is getting to be ridiculous. I am not interested in hearing any more pontification from indignant tax-payers. It''s all well and good for you to preach this way when it very likely does not affect you at all -- you''ve all probably bought diamonds out of state and gotten a damn good deal doing so.

I''d like to thank the people who''ve actually posted something significant in response to my original question. The rest of you, even if you''ve acted in good faith, were really wasting your time. Nothing has been pointed out that I had not already been aware of. Thanks for sharing your opinion, but further posts like this can only serve to aggravate and incite unwarranted argument.

Gunpoint! Do you really lack the perspective necessary to differentiate between what you are suggesting and what I had asked about?

 

[Superidealist]

I suggest you reread the post to which I replied for other examples of lack of necessary perspective.

 

[perry]

Radgygast:

So lets see if I have this right .... It is OK to steal a substaintail amount from the government, but not OK to steal from a dealer? Oh that is right - all those legitimate dealers and other legitimate taxpayers will have to make up for your theft by paying the government more taxes. Maybe I should refrase the question. It seems to me that your position is that it is OK to you to steel from almost everyone else in your country through higher taxes to pay for your theft- but not OK to steal from an isolated dealer. Wait - the dealer has insurance, and all the other dealers will pay for that theft via their insurance preimium. So is it that your position is that it is OK to steel from all the taxpayers - but not OK to steel from all the diamond insurance payers.

Please explain your position?

Isn't it just so much easier to just not plan on stealing at all?

Also, please don't imply that all of us arn't affected by this sort of thing. We are, trust me, many of us are. You are not the only one to buy accross boundries. Some of the medical gear that I use comes from overseas. My sister is a Canadian Citizen as well - I think I understand some things about Canada too.

Please don't imply that we do not understand the issues: over 30 years ago I was a habitual liar and an outright thief (I broke into houses before I was a teenager). I watched what happened to my freinds of the time (arrest, "reform school," etc); my best friend dead, my next best freind instatutionalized for the rest of his life (with no hope of recovery). I figured out that life was not going so well for me because nobody believed a word I said- even when I told the truth.

It was hard to turn myself arround, and it took years before people believed me again, but I did it. Life is so much better when you are on the honest side of things. Both the US and Canadian society function only because most people are essentially honest.

Perry

 

[nicknomo]

This is ridiculous. All of you people are sheep, brainwashed beyond belief. You buy an item in another country, and your country wants a piece of the action. Guess what, I''d say that they are stealing from you. If the American business does not want to charge the customer taxes at the point of sale, then they are the only ones committing any form of moral indignity. The canadian has no responsibility to pay American taxes... That''s the retailers responsiblity. He also has no responsiblity to the Canadian government, since they aren''t part of the transaction. The only reason you pay your own country''s taxes is because they give you the freeodom and protection to be able to run your business or make transactions peacefully. When you go to another country, that is not your own, they don''t do a damn thing for you.

Think this through.. they have nothing to do with the purchase, but they want your money. Hmm, yes what a moral obligation you have to pay them.

Breaking the law does not equate to being immoral. They can be quite different.

Either way, it certainly isn''t stealing... you have to take something that is not yours to steal. It''s keeping someone else from taking something that belongs to you in which they have no valid claim on.