Calling All Platinum Experts -- Porosity??

[Demelza]

I''m wondering if I can get some opinions here on this little hole I found on one of my platinum prongs. This is a pic I took with my 10x loupe. It''s visible with the naked eye and fairly easy to spot in the right light. What I''m wondering is:

1. What is it?
2. Can it be fixed?
3. How serious of a problem is it from a structural standpoint?
4. Could it have been caused during the setting process or is it a casting issue?

Thanks a bunch!!!!!

 

[perry]

While not an expert on platinum; I was the QA Engineer for a foundry in my past.

That looks like porosity to me, and porosity is a casting defect.

Fixing porosity can be tricky depending on the metal - and it may be that it could be difficult to repair (or to repair in such a way that does not affect the strength of the prong).

Modest amounts of porosity have no significant structural affects. Thus, I doubt that this one pit will affect the ring (other than looks).

Look at it this way, you have a unique identifier for your ring now (just like you should know the internal defects of your diamond so that you can identify it).

Perry

 

[mrssalvo]

i have no idea abot porosity but something like that would bother me as you well know

i''d exchange the setting for a different one, but that''s just super picky me

 

[denverappraiser]

A jeweler with the proper tools (a laser welder) can fix that quickly and fairly easily. It is not evidence of a structural problem. Ask around at either the store where you bought it or at one of the shops in town that promotes themselves as being skilled at custom work in platinum.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Demelza]

Thanks for the info, guys! I've been stressing about it since I found it and not sure what to do: accept that not all jewelry is 100% perfect or try to get it fixed. The vendor is not taking responsibility for it because I had the stone set by someone else. That voids their lifetime warranty. It seems clear to me that this was not caused by my jeweler setting the stone, but their response was to refer me back to my stone setter. I sent a picture which shows clearly that this is a hole in the platinum and not something the jeweler setting the stone could have done. It helps knowing that it is fixable should I decide to do so in the future, but I think this might be something I just need to learn to accept since the vendor doesn't seem willing to fix it and I don't really know who else I can trust with it. The jeweler who set the stone (whom I do trust) does not have a laser welder. I guess the reality is, not all jewelry is perfect. Sigh.

 

[Mara]

At this point I wouldn't even want SC to fix it...they seem uninterested in helping out by saying that HAD to have been done after by another jeweler rather than even investigating it...so what about a local jeweler, aka the person who set the stone or as Neil said, someone who specializes in platinum locally?

A HOLE in the ring seems like it would not have been done by just setting and polishing, Neil and others, do you feel it was done during the casting process or after the fact by a jeweler in the setting and polishing? The fact that the hole is RECESSED leads me to believe that it could not have been put there after the fact by just repolishing.

One thing that comes to mind is possibly the repolishing of the ring after the setting of the stone could have exposed the hole that may have been just lurking under the surface? Is this possible?

 

[Demelza]

Date: 11/6/2005 12:45:47 PM
Author: Mara
At this point I wouldn''t even want SC to fix it...they seem uninterested in helping out by saying that HAD to have been done after by another jeweler rather than even investigating it...so what about a local jeweler, aka the person who set the stone or as Neil said, someone who specializes in platinum locally?


A HOLE in the ring seems like it would not have been done by just setting and polishing, Neil and others, do you feel it was done during the casting process or after the fact by a jeweler in the setting and polishing? The fact that the hole is RECESSED leads me to believe that it could not have been put there after the fact by just repolishing.


One thing that comes to mind is possibly the repolishing of the ring after the setting of the stone could have exposed the hole that may have been just lurking under the surface? Is this possible?

Yes, I would like to know this too: is there any way the jeweler setting the stone could have caused this hole?

I am quite certain SC will not fix it, so I guess I''m left with 2 options: find someone who can or live with it. Thoughts?

 

[denverappraiser]

I''m a bit surprised that the manufacturer would take that position but it''s important to read the fine print of the purchase agreement when it comes to warranties. They vary a lot from one to the next and people never read past a title like ''lifetime limited warranty'' are often disappointed when they figure out what limits have been agreed to. This is part of the shopping process in choosing a dealer that you want to do business with.

It''s pretty likely that your jeweler who set it knows someone with a welder if you ask. They are a little unusual and sort of expensive but there are quite a few of them around and there are certain repairs (like this one) where it is clearly better. People who work on a lot of antique jewelery live by these things and most jewelery stores will have a supplier lined up for repairs of this nature. I would encourage you to get it fixed. This is going to annoy you every time you look at the ring and it really shouldn''t be all that hard to address. What did your setter recommend?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[tareyton]

I am very surprised the vendor won''t make good on their warranty. Yes you may have voided the warranty but it is clearly a casting issue. Not only does it appear their customer service is poor but so is their QA.

Just for tracking purposes I would file a complaint with the BBB.

I know I will now never buy anything from them.

 

[stretch4]

Oh Dem, that stinks. I think in the end, something like that would bother me.

SC''s response also bothers me. While I noticed from their website that they take no responsibility if someone else sets the stone, if this is a problem with the ring that was not affected/caused by your setter, then they should still stand behind their product.

Here is what their FAQ says:

Question:
If I buy your SuperbCert setting but have my jeweler set the diamond, do I still get your Lifetime Guarantee?
Answer:
No. We will not take responsibility on work done by those not in our employ. Same holds for all Vatche rings and settings.

And on their webpage for the ring itself, they say:

We guarantee that you will not find a better manufactured, higher quality, Tiffany Classic replica at this price anywhere! The "Tiffany Solitaires" that you see advertised by everyone for 400-500 dollars in "platinum" do not even come close to our exclusive setting in terms of purity, weight, craftsmanship, likeness, and quality.

To me, it sounds like they say that they will not take responsiblity for any damage done when work is done on the setting by others. But if this is a problem with the quality of the setting itself, then it should still be their problem to fix IMO.

 

[Mara]

Dem I think that hole will bother you...knowing how particular you are (like me!) about stuff like this. Especially if your eagle eyes found it! I agree that you should see if your jeweler can recommend someone local who can fix it. If you are worried, maybe you can ask to be present during the repair so you can see how it's done.

If the hole was created during casting, it's a worksmanship issue by the original vendor, and they should honor their warranty on the original product. To say that it 'had' to have been done after the fact by polishing to me is a way to pass the buck without even checking into it. It's like they won't even acknowledge that there is a possibility AT ALL this could have been caused by them.

 

[Kaleigh]

I know you got an email from the vendor. I would give him a call tomorrow and see if something can be worked out as really it was caused by them. But like Mara said your jeweler can find someone to fix it but how much that will cost, I have no clue. I think that vendor stinks!!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/6/2005 2:25:34 PM
Author: tareyton
I am very surprised the vendor won't make good on their warranty.

I'm not.....consider who the vendor involved is. I'd expect this sort of behavior from him, and it's why I wouldn't ever buy from him either.

It's not that I don't appreciate the nature of a warranty and what it means. But, if this is a workmanship issue and could NOT have been caused after the fact (which seems to be the case), then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Lynn B]

Oh no Dem!

I am so sorry about this! CRAP!

Did it just "appear", do you think? Or has it been there all along and you perhaps just haven't noticed? (That huge honkin', glorious diamond of yours is BLINDING, you know!

)

The reason I ask is that if it's (likely) been there all along, and you just now noticed it... then that tells me that it's not very noticeable at all, in real life. (And honestly, to the naked eye, it looks to me to be very, very small.) Anyway, if it's a casting defect (which makes the most sense to me) I just don't see how it could have just appeared... although I'm sure anything is possible!

I can soooo understand your frustration... this has been a long (and stressful!) road for you. Here's my humble 2 cents... maybe live with it for a little while and see if it continues to bother you or if you can "get used to" it. The reason I suggest this is because what if you do take it to get fixed and somehow the jeweler botches it and it looks somehow "worse" afterward?! It's probably not LIKELY, but it could happen! And ohmyword, can you even imagine?!!!

I am like you, I truly LOVE "perfect"... but I have come to the conclusion that sometimes we have to settle for a little less than perfect, in our real (imperfect) world. I wish that weren't true, but it is. And especially the prices we pay for "perfect", yes - it's frustrating and irritating... but at least for me, there sometimes comes a time where I just say, "OK, enough!" and I learn to live with something a little less-than-perfect.

But of course it's totally up to you, and I understand completely if you feel differently. This is just my opinion, of what I think I would do in your situation.

Please keep us posted!

xoxox
Lynn

 

[Rank Amateur]

I know that a person should be completely satisfied when making such an important purchase, but, man that seems like a tiny imperfection. Don''t get too stressed out.

 

[Demelza]

Update: I got another email from the vendor this afternoon reiterating their policy and saying in no uncertain terms that the ring was in perfect condition when it left their factory. He said that he has never had any issue with porosity with their Tiffany mountings and that mine is no exception. In the interest of keeping me happy, however, he did, offer to inspect and fix the ring at no charge. Shipping/insurance on my center stone would be at my expense. He also said I could return the mounting for an 80% refund (their policy on custom mountings).

I think I''m tempted to do as Lynn suggests and live with it for a little while to see whether I can learn to accept the imperfection. I''m sure I''m not the only one to have minor flaws in their rings and maybe this is minor enough for me to just deal. I don''t feel super inclined to send my ring back to SC and, if a repair is to be done, I think I will try to find someone locally to do it. It helps knowing that at least it can be fixed if I choose to do so. I''m a bit afraid, as Lynn says, that a repair might make it worse or unearth another problem. Probably irrational, but I''m not too trusting of anyone right now.

To answer Lynn''s question: I''m not sure how I missed it before. I think I remember noticing it a few days ago, but not really paying any attention to it. It wasn''t until last night that I really tried to rub it off only to discover that it''s a hole. Also, I can only see it if that prong is on the left side. If I put the ring on the opposite way, I can''t see it at all. So, who knows, how long I was wearing it with the black dot on the right hand side.

Thanks, all, for your support and interest. I just love this community!

 

[Mara]

Haha I just had this thought: It's like a black carbon inclusion but on the prong!!!

Personally, for me if I was the vendor and the maker of the ring (custom from scratch), it wouldn't matter whose fault it was, but I would offer to fix it period because I wouldn't want a flawed version of my ring walking around out there. Or an unhappy customer. So it's good that the offer was made...but I agree I wouldn't send it back either. What a hassle. I'd see if you could live with it or have a local person who is qualified and recommended fix it.

 

[Kaleigh]

I think he should send you a whole new setting and you can send the other one back. A happy customer speaks volumes and if I were him that''s what I would do. May not be feasible, but if this were WF they would bend over backwards to make you happy. But then again this isn''t WF is it???

 

[Demelza]

My inclination is to just see if I can live with it, and if not, try to see if someone local can fix it. That worries me, though, because what if they make it worse? I guess it's just a risk I'll have to take. The next time I'm in Bellingham, I'll talk to my jeweler there (very trustworthy) and see if he knows of someone to fix it with a laser. Or maybe he can do it? We'll see.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 11/6/2005 5:56:43 PM
Author: Mara
Haha I just had this thought: It's like a black carbon inclusion but on the prong!!!

Haha, that's funny, Mara, about the black carbon inclusion on the prong. That's actually a nice way to think about it.

I wonder if anyone knows of a really good jeweler with a laser welder in Los Angeles. I will be going home for Thanksgiving and I wonder if I could take it then to get fixed?? So hard to know who's good.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Dem the hole is very small from a structural point of view.
Perhaps a customer who does not own a loupe would not have seen it?

But now it is worrying you, perhaps you should ask for it to be repaired at the vendor''s expense.
The setter could not have caused this porosity unless he replaced the head.

There is no need for a laser hi tech solution either. But if there is, as Mara suggests, more porosity lurking under the surface it would be better that the ring maker did the work.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 11/6/2005 6:47:40 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Dem the hole is very small from a structural point of view.

Perhaps a customer who does not own a loupe would not have seen it?


But now it is worrying you, perhaps you should ask for it to be repaired at the vendor's expense.

The setter could not have caused this porosity unless he replaced the head.


There is no need for a laser hi tech solution either. But if there is, as Mara suggests, more porosity lurking under the surface it would be better that the ring maker did the work.

How would a jeweler fix it without a laser? Will the repair be at all visible if done properly?

Good to know the setter couldn't have caused this problem. And good to know it won't cause any structural problems. I guess I'm a little worried that the mounting has other areas of porosity. Hopefully, it doesn't and this is just an anomaly. How bad would the porosity have to be in order to cause a structural problem? Would it be visible?

To me, the hole is visible with the naked eye, but I do have very good eyesight.

 

[Mara]

"The setter could not have caused this porosity unless he replaced the head.

There is no need for a laser hi tech solution either. But if there is, as Mara suggests, more porosity lurking under the surface it would be better that the ring maker did the work. "

______________

Thanks for chiming in with that Garry...I really was wondering if it could have been caused by the setting jeweler as SC says. I doubt the setting jeweler would not have replaced the head as the SC head is the most notorious part of the ring!

Is there a way for a jeweler to tell if there is more porosity under the surface so that Dem can figure out if she should send it back or not? It would be nice if a whole new setting was offered, yes.

 

[Kaleigh]

Thank you Garry. See it was caused by the vendor and NOT the setter. I still say you should get a whole new setting and send the other one back. I hope the vendor in question is reading this, hello???

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

It is unlikely to be a structual problem unless you see many small clusters of cloud like pin holes.

There is a test we do when we are working with larger bars and chunks.
We drop the metal on a solid steel anvil - if it ''rings'' like a bell, then there is no porosity - if it goes donk or dunk, then we scrap the metal. Never tried it with a finished piece - maybe you can all test your rings and let me know.
I will replace any broken diamonds for cost plus 10%

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 11/6/2005 6:47:40 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

There is no need for a laser hi tech solution either.

The torch solution involves either adding a lower temperature metal in the hole (ie solder) or pulling and resetting the stone in order to avoid the risk of damage from the platinum welding temperatures. A quick zap with the laser avoids both of these issues.

I absolutely agree that the manufacturer is the best choice for repair if they are willing to do it. It's not a difficult job but finish work on platinum is always a bit of a chore and you would like it to be done by someone who will do it carefully. If the manufacturer counts this as an imposition instead of an opportunity to repair a minor defect, I would not consider this to be a good sign.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 11/6/2005 2:46:59 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 11/6/2005 2:25:34 PM

Author: tareyton

I am very surprised the vendor won''t make good on their warranty.

I''m not.....consider who the vendor involved is. I''d expect this sort of behavior from him, and it''s why I wouldn''t ever buy from him either.


It''s not that I don''t appreciate the nature of a warranty and what it means. But, if this is a workmanship issue and could NOT have been caused after the fact (which seems to be the case), then it shouldn''t be an issue.

i agree with this 100%. Demelza, i''m so sorry, i thought you finally had a winner

I hope SC will step up to the plate and make things right for you. It would go a long way in the customer service dept

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/6/2005 7:38:20 PM
Author: denverappraiser

If the manufacturer counts this as an imposition instead of an opportunity to repair a minor defect, I would not consider this to be a good sign.

AMEN, Neil.

 

[Rank Amateur]

I feel the Pricescope thumbscrews being turned...

 

[Kaleigh]

RA I certainly hope so. Why they wouldn''t want to rectify this in the best way possible is beyond me. But from what I have heard about this vendor it''s par for the course so to speak. Perhaps I will be surprised, one can hope. Demelza agonized over this choice and it''s only right she get a setting that is free of any flaws, holes defects etc.....