Buy an SI and had to return it?

[Mara]

Fancy''s post about SI stones got me thinking....So how many people here have bought and/or had an SI stone sent to an appraiser....saw the stone...and was not satisfied with the quality...then returned it? On that same token, how many kept their SI stones after receiving? Did you ask the vendor beforehand if it was eye clean? Did they answer truthfully?




There may be difference answers here...choose the one that fits best your scenario. This is any SI stone since the results vary from lab to lab on grading.

 

[derekinla]

The SI1 that I purchased was eye clean but I didn't know this before actually receiving it.... I guess I lucked out!

 

[Mara]

bump..any other SI purchasers out there? i know we have more than a few!

 

[mike04456]

I got my wife some half-carat H-SI1 diamond stud earrings a while back, but I don't suppose I really count for purposes of this survey.

 

[niceice]

Most dealers can't 'really' tell you whether an SI-1 clarity diamond is actually 'eye clean' or not because they don't actually see the diamond prior to having it shipped to you... Only a few of us actually inventory the diamonds that we sell, the rest merely list diamonds for sale from their supplier's inventory lists and then have the diamonds drop shipped to their client... So the first question to ask is "Do you have the diamond in your possession?" and if they answer "Yes" then it shouldn't be a problem for them to provide you with detailed clarity photographs in a reasonable period of time... Forty five minutes is about right - if they 'actually' have the diamond

We're a bit sarcastic on this subject because awhile back we had a situation where we brought in a diamond for evaluation on behalf of a client and then another dealer tried to snake the deal out from under us after we had done all the work... Thankfully the client appreciated our efforts and wasn't going to toss us aside for a mere $50.00 savings since they figured that it cost at least that for us to take the time to photograph the stone, but the funny thing is that we were discussing the clarity photographs with the client when the other dealer telephoned her and she had a great time asking the other dealer all sorts of questions about the characteristics of the inclusions... The other dealer was working off of a faxed copy of the lab report and we were working off of the original and the 'actual' diamond... The other dealer ended up with mud all over their faces because they just didn't seem to be able to describe the diamond crystal located in the center of the table facet because it just didn't come through on their fax... Wa-ha-ha, isn't reality a riot?!?!

Buy your SI-1 clarity diamond from somebody who has actually seen it and you're more likely to be happy... We've 'never' had one returned for not being eye clean because we actually see them! What a concept...

 

[Fancy]

Mara ... I just love your polls! They are always a lot of fun and really interesting!

Oh, and NOT because this one was about my pervious post, I loved the upgrade poll, the carat size poll, the which stone would you pick, and the "would you choose a Tiffany diamond" ! I can't figure out how to make a poll yet, but keep them coming!

 

[Arlington]

I was interested in an SI1 diamond from Whiteflash. I asked and was assured by Lesley that it was eye-clean. What's more, both Brian at Whiteflash and the independant appraiser I took it to looked at it under the scope and have stated that it may well have been misgraded as an SI1 when it should have been a VS2 or higher.

So in short, I got the stone, and it is 100% eye-clean. In fact, I can't see any inclusiong under 10x magnification either.

My opinion, as a (former) consumer only, is that the budget-conscious buyer can be perfectly happy with an SI1 stone. Just shop carefully, and don't be afaid to use the return policies of the vendor if you don't like the diamond after you get it.

 

[fire&ice]

There are those that own the stones. There are those that just drop ship.

There are *many* vendors who will order in the stone, eyeball it for you then send it on if it meets you criteria.

The price difference between a VS2 & an SI1 is substainal enough for at least investigating the option.

 

[Bagpuss]

I was even luckier. I bought a 3 stone diamond ring from an online vendor - not one on this forum, sight unseen and with no separate appraisal. The diamonds were graded I1 and they had no cert at all. I trusted the vendor to tell me if the stones were badly included (easy to see black spots etc) and was assured it looked eyeclean. There was a good return policy, I'd seen excellent close up pics of the ring and the price was great, so I took a chance and bought the ring.

Result - wonderful, eyeclean, white, sparkly diamonds.
Lesson - pick the right vendor and you too can get a bargain.

 

[diamondlil]

I am one of those budget-conscious shoppers who was willing to buy an SI2 diamond. I did see the loose stone in person and was fully aware of the feather near the girdle which is now hidden under a prong of my setting. Other than this feather, the stone is completely eye clean and is definitely eye clean with the feather hidden by the prong. Going this route enabled me to afford a much larger stone (2.07 ct) in a great color (E) than I would have otherwise. I can assure you that I have NEVER had anyone whip out their loupe in public to inspect my ring. They only look down at my hand, usually a foot or more from their naked eye, an compliment my brilliant white diamond.




My point is, why pay for what you can't see. It was worth the money saved to compromise on clarity for me since I really wanted a 2 ct stone in a super-white color. I was able to study the diamond in person for its cleanliness. My independent appraiser verified that the stone was as represented. I would hesitate before purchasing an SI 1 or 2 stone from a vendor on line who was not in possession of the stone themselves. Assuming they had the stone and I received their verbal assurance that the stone was eye clean or would be after setting, and assuming they have a liberal return policy, I would go for it.




Diamondlil

P.S. Mara, keep these polls coming!

 

[Mara]

BUMP!

 

[pqcollectibles]

I bought a SI1, ACA from White Flash. Todd (Nice Ice) makes a very good point about using a vendor who has possession of the diamond.

Lesley arranged for me to speak with Brian Gavin, the cutter. Brian actually pulled the diamond out and discussed it with me over the phone. I got a full verbal description of what to expect prior to shipment.

While I don't mean to be rude, Linda (Diamond Deals),..... Lesley and Brian were both extremely busy with other clients. On the phone, on the Net, and at their location in Texas. I did not buy a huge diamond either. Just a 0.766 ct. But Lesley, Brian, and the whole gang at White Flash made me feel as if I was their most important customer well BEFORE I was one of their "other customers who are already farther along in the purchase process." From posts I've read on this Forum, the folks at Nice Ice have a very similar client care approach.

 

[Mara]

BUMP!

 

[Groovy Chick]

Firstly, what on earth is BUMP???




I recently posted a thread "Tragedy with new e-ring - need help". I laugh at myself now coz i actually thought my stone had developed an inclusion since i got it! Ha! You guys were all too sweet to poke fun and gently pointed out it had always been there. The stone is an SI2 but when i bought it i was not used to looking at diamonds and couldn't even see the inclusion under a loupe. Now i can see it without. It's not too bad, and i'd rather have the size coz like you, Diamondlil, nobody will ever notice mine either. But i am a little annoyed that the vendor didn't educate me better. I had information in a leaflet that described SI2 as "easily seen under a 10x loupe, however not seen by the naked eye". I trusted that, being a newbie. I now know it is INCORRECT. Will upgrade one anniversary but can't ask that of my fiance now.

 

[aljdewey]

GC.....I'm sorry that you felt misled about your SI2, so in the interest of helping all of us here not to be misled, allow me to add a bit.




Not all VS2s are created equal. Not all SI1s are created equal. And not all SI2s are created equal. There are many different types and colors of inclusions.....some are white and wispy, others are dark, others are crystals, etc. My point is this: just because some SI2 stones have inclusions that are visible to the naked eye doesn't mean one can assume that ALL SI2 stones will have visible inclusions.




I'd hate for people reading this to think that all stones rated SI2 will have inclusions visible to the naked eye because I know that to be untrue firsthand. I just bought an SI2 stone that is COMPLETELY eyeclean....but I *knew* that because I took the time to phone the vendor and ask about it. The vendor confirmed it was eyeclean, and that was seconded by my appraiser, and it IS indeed eyeclean.




Like any purchase, the best results come from smart shopping. This means doing the research, asking questions, and taking the extra steps necessary to make sure one is truly happy pre-purchase.

 

[guslik]

I can not be happier with my SI2 stone. ABSOLUTELY, 100% eye clean.
I could never afford anything close to the diamond size I've got if I didn't spend time to investigate and to find the RIGHT SI2. (I wanted a great cut too)

I agree that not all SI2 stones are created equal.
It does take a long time and effort to research and find THE ONE. (It is almost as hard as to find the RIGHT men

)
You sacrifice the time of research for the money you save. I think this is the way to go.

 

[Mara]

'bump' is a term for bumping up the thread to the top of the pile so it gets more notices. This originally was posted back in October, so I dug it out for new responses.

 

[Groovy Chick]

Aljdewey, i just want to reiterate that i did do research and i have in my posession the brochure that describes SI2 as:




"Small inclusion(s) that are easily seen under a 10x loupe, however not seen by the naked eye".




It would have made the world of difference if is more accurately said, "but SOMETIMES seen by the naked eye". I trusted the brochure. Ouch. Luckily, my jeweller has said we can upgrade anytime we want, so i can live with it till then.

 

[newenglandgemlab]

I find it interesting that no one ever qualifies the 'naked eye'and how well their eye sight is. I know for a fact that my partner can see things that I can't and I have very good eyesight (but as time goes on I can't see things as easily, that I could see 20 years ago). I call her old eagle eyes! Whenever we have an SI stone in it is nice to get a couple of opinions from a couple of different pairs of eyes. Cindy

 

[diamondlil]

So true. The brochure you have, GC, should say:




SI2: Inclusions possibly seen with naked eyes only under the age of 40.

Diamondlil

 

[sxn675]

Hi! I have an SI-1 ACA from Whiteflash. I did ask if it was eye-clean and if the inclusions were white or black prior to purchase, and was assured by Lesley at Whiteflash and Chris at AGA that I wouldn't be able to see them. They were right--I can't see the inclusion at all, and people look at my ring all the time. All of my mom's friends scrutinized it very carefully (I mean like take it off my finger and stare deeply into it!). I am so glad I went with the H color and the SI-1, because there is no way we would have been able to afford the size without going this route. At the end of the day, I'd rather have the size

.

 

[Daniela]

Hi, guys. I wanted to give my comments on my SI-1, and I would like to know what you guys think. I was told that it is "eye-clean" prior to purchase, and was very insistent about that point. I can see one of the small crystals in my stone, but only in certain lighting conditions, i.e., if I hold my stone up with the light source behind it, and look relatively closely (but not three inches from my face or anything), I can see it.

I knew this the day after we bought it, but I was not about to send it back and put my fiance through that grief. We bought an SI-1 rather than a VS-2 because of our budget, and had decided prior to purchase that we would make use of the vendor's liftetime upgrade policy as soon as we had the money. The SI-1 helped us get a full carat. Besides that, it's was sparkly as heck.

Do you think that I should have been told that I might be able to see the inclusion under these specific conditions, or is this nit-picky? I guess I sort of feel like I might have the only possibly non-eye-clean SI-1 from a very reputable Pricescope vendor!

In passing, I do have eyes like a hawk and a real penchant for seeing detail. Do you think it's possible that people like me just plain shouldn't buy SI-1?

Thanks,

Daniela

 

[aljdewey]

GC, I think you're taking my comments personally when that's not the intent of them. I didn't say that *you* personally didn't research your purchase.




My comment was more to fill in the blanks around the SI2. You're upset because the brochure didn't say that SI inclusions are *sometimes* visible. If I were a price-conscious shopper and read your comment on SI, I'd steer away and then later be disappointed that I thought ALL si2 inclusions could be seen with the naked eye based on your comment.




Just trying to provide some accurate information. There is much more beyond what the brochure from the jewelers says. Most jewelers don't every mention cut quality, for instance, but it's a major component in picking a stone.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/14/2003 8:22:17 AM sxn675 wrote:





Hi! I have an SI-1 ACA from Whiteflash. I did ask if it was eye-clean and if the inclusions were white or black prior to purchase, and was assured by Lesley at Whiteflash and Chris at AGA that I wouldn't be able to see them. They were right--I can't see the inclusion at all, and people look at my ring all the time. All of my mom's friends scrutinized it very carefully (I mean like take it off my finger and stare deeply into it!). I am so glad I went with the H color and the SI-1, because there is no way we would have been able to afford the size without going this route. At the end of the day, I'd rather have the size

.
----------------

SNX, YES, that's exactly my point. One needs to get information from many sources, and one of those important sources is the VENDOR. You asked about the inclusions prior to purchase, you were assured they cannot be seen, and you can't see them. This homework allowed you to get a stone that would have otherwise been out of your budget. Doing the homework meant that you knew the H would fine and the SI would be fine, too.

Same here....I bought a 1.244 H, SI2 stone. SI2 wasn't even in the initial list of consideration, but Brian asked me to consider it because he felt it was an exceptional value and that it was a really realy strong quality SI2. He assured me it would be eyeclean. I began looking for .93-.95 stones.....there is just NO WAY I'd have ended up in a 1.244 stone if I hadn't spoken to the vendor about the inclusions.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Cindy's right on about the quality of one's vision playing a strong factor in vieweing diamond inclusions. I have the vision of a fighter pilot - 20/15 - but the majority of the population doesn't. I can pick out inclusions easily in SI and I1 graded RB's - when they're reasonably obvious inclusions. If they're well hidden, I can still pick them up, but it takes time. I can see the inclusions in my stone if I look at it from the side, at certain angles, but I can't see anything from the top.

Groovy Chick, it sounds like the inclusion that's bothering you is pretty hard to locate with the naked eye. I wouldn't let it diminish your pleasure in owning the stone, or wearing your ring.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Daniela, what you're describing (in terms of how you're able to see that one inclusion) is probably quite common with properly graded SI1's of that size. Again - my comments to GC apply here as well.

If it bothers you that much, I'd return it and go up in clarity. But it sounds like perhaps your disappointment is with what the vendor told you about the stone, and not so much with the stone itself.

 

[Mara]

Daniela, I think that the whole 'eyes are subjective' thing comes into play here. The vendor you worked with may not have seen the inclusion. Or maybe they were just sloppy. If it were me, I would have said, yanno I see the inclusion, but I don't mind it. We're taking it anyway. Just in the interest of full-disclosure from you to the vendor to let them know that YES you see the inclusion--even though they told you that it was eye-clean.




Also I know that if I ask anyone if something is eye-clean, my eyes are not going to be their eyes. So I would take anyone's assurance about that with a grain of salt until I see it. I am also the one who caught a tiny black carbon inclusion in an SI1 that otherwise was lovely, and it bothered me so we didn't take it. But the jeweler didn't point it out to me at all, in the interest of full disclosure. That bothered me. I was more comfortable with the VS (only other offline option) and the fiance loved it too. But I know others who have gotten SI1's or SI2's and are ecstatic and can't see the inclusions. White wispy ones I'd be fine with I think, those are easily masked by sparkle. But black carbon? Kind of a pet peeve.




Does your vendor have an upgrade policy? Maybe tell your fiance the deal and see if he will agree to let you switch out the stone in a year or so when you have a budget for it, and get something similar but more of a VS clarity for eye-insurance purposes.

Then everyone wins.




Good luck!!

 

[strmrdr]

I have seen a vs2 that was technicaly not eyeclean under all conditions.
Hitting it with bright light at just the right angle will show a magnified image of the inclusion.
Would anyone ever see it on the hand? not likely.
But the owner could find it every time she really looked for it
and it bugged her untill she got over it and while I havent talked to them in ages the last time I did she wouldnt have traded that diamond for any other.
The diamond was certified by the gia as vs2 and 2 appraisers agreed.
The point is when your dealing with crystals, mirrors and facets sometimes wierd things happen.

 

[Daniela]

Mara and CG,

That's precisely what I did. I told the vendor that yes, I could see the inclusion, but that I didn't feel that I had been mislead per se since in most instances it is eye-clean, and that we were keeping the stone. It's so true that not everyone's eye sees everything, but I guess I think that perhaps vendors should err on the side of being pretty critical. That would do away with any discrepancy regarding "eye-clean".

There is a lifetime upgrade policy, so my fiance and I have already agreed that we will upgrade when we're ready. If it had been THE diamond for life, I probably would have worried even more about it, but I'm just enjoying the stone I have now because heck, I'm engaged, and being engaged is fun!

I do think that this does add another dimension to the whole size vs. clarity debate. I think that SI-1 probably isn't for everyone. But I have to say that for me, a hearts and arrows "H" colour is plenty white! So isn't it so true that it's all very subjective?

Cheers,

Daniela

 

[stephcola]

Hi Mara,




My stone is a totally eyeclean SI1. I looked at several that were eyeclean as well. I also looked at alot of dogs!!! It is very possible to find an eyeclean SI stone and I wouldn't go any other way. I think they represent the best value. You just need to look hard and it can be found. I would much rather have a bigger , better color and better cut stone rather than upping the clarity. Regards,