Am I being over charged by my own relative?!?

[schep23]

I was qouted a price of 12 grand "give or take" for a 2.o k princess cut vvs2 h. This guy is my future fiances uncle. he is a jewler and I know he has to make a living but they are very close. I was just wondereing if anyone thinks I may be able to do better down in the diamond district in nyc. I plan to go regardless but I was just wondering if anyone has any comments. Also he said is not actually a square the dimensions are 7.45x6.5x5.2 is this uncommon?

 

[questionsRus]

if you do a search on here, you will find 16 diamonds, 2 ct princess cut, g color, vvs1 clarity diamonds. The cheapest is $14486, the most expensive is 19511. that's all i'm saying, so other people can chime in and i don't take all the fun

actually, i lied. the vvs2's are from 14486 to 16934, and the vvs1's are from 18117 to 19511.

 

[ame]

That is a phenomenal price based on mysearch (same as the post above me).

Yknow...you can always buy it and ship it to me

 

[eyesoftexas]

The diamond district will eat you and your wallet alive. You would likely come home with a nice piece of glass that you still paid 12K for.

 

[moremoremore]

I agree that that is a great price. It's not uncommon for princess stones to be somewhat rectangular. That stone is VERY rectangular. Make sure you like it. Also, make sure there is no pesty bow-tie...I would not necessarily anyone's word on cut...this could be the best or worst cut ever...can you get more info? Does it have a cert? What are the numbers from it...!

 

[schep23]

What do you know about the diamond district? Your from TEXAS. Next time keep yor comments to yourself pal.

 

[questionsRus]

lol. i dont think he meant to be quite as offensive as you took it, or as it sounded

also, he's not even your relative yet. hopefully. (i mean that only in a humerous way)

 

[sevens one]

Testy, testy

 

[Shay37]

Schep,

If you will do a search here on past threads dealing with the diamond district in NYC, you will likely understand why EyesofTexas said what they did. They really were trying to help you. As far as where a person lives determining what they know about other places, ever hear of airplanes?

If you want to know about princesses, our resident "queens of the princess cut" are Moremoremore and Researcher. Check out their rocks in the Show me the ring section. If they give you advice, they have been there and done that in their own searches. I do not know if you can do better on price, but maybe you can find a nicer (if there is one) princess and have him call it in for you. He might even be willing to make you a deal on that one as well. Just a thought.

Shay

 

[ame]

All Diamond Districts tend to be pretty shady from my experience.

 

[headlight]

From what others posted, seems like you are getting the "family" discount. As for shape, that is the personal preference of your soon-to-be fiance. But, I think the more important point is that obviously your girl is very close to this uncle and I really don't see how you have a choice BUT to purchase from him. Not a good way to start out the marriage or you relationship with the family by taking your diamond biz elsewhere. So, price is great and as long as your beloved is pleased with the shape, it sounds like a winner. But, if she doesn't find the rectangular aspect of it appealing, then have HER request that dear uncle bring her in more "squared" princess cuts for her viewing. This way, you are just buying the thing and if girlfriend approves the jeweler (uncle) and the stone, you will come out smelling like a rose!

 

[moremoremore]

hmmm...I do agree that you should be very careful here...don't want to piss off the relatives YET!!! LOL...But I think if this guy doesn't have a stone you like you are not obligated to buy from him. It IS 12 grand you know!! You could ask nicely for other quality stones!!! We know basically nothing about this stone..so it could be a dud and it could be amazing...you'll need more info to know for sure!

Best of luck to you!

 

[reena]

----------------
I was just wondereing if anyone thinks I may be able to do better down in the diamond district in nyc. I plan to go regardless but I was just wondering if anyone has any comments.

Woah. You ASKED for opinions on this.

 

[Jolie]

I apologize in advance, because this may not come out sounding right/nice:

But are you sure you want to do business with a close relative at all? If you don't get a good deal or a diamond you are completely satisfied with, I think there could be lingering resentment for a while. On the other hand, if you get a really good price, then you could be indebted (that's a strong word, I really mean that you can be perceived - even subconsciously - as "owing" him) for a long time. Sometimes it's better not to do business with a relative at all, even if you end up spending a little more money. But just my unsolicited two cents.

 

[headlight]

Jolie,
You have made an EXCELLENT point. With that said, however, I think our fellow PSer is stuck between a rock and a hard place, as if he doesn't go with the uncle on this purchase, the family will flame him for not doing so. Ultimately, I think it boils down to what the girl wants, and apparently she is close with said uncle and wants to get her diamond from him, so at the risk of pissing off uncle, other relatives, AND the future Mrs., we'll just have to hope that things work out successfully because I don't see how he has a choice at this point. But, you are 100% correct in that if there is a way "out", he'd be better off taking that route.

 

[fancycoloredfan]

I think you could get a better "price" overall if you didn't go with a vvs2. Why are you going with a K VVS2? Is that all he offered you? Yes, it's a good price, but I ADORE princess cut stones, and if I were going with a 2 ct., I'd rather make sure it's a square (that's my personal preference) than it be of VVS2 clarity.

Why don't you see what else he has? more of a balance of color, clarity and proportions?

 

[Jolie]

It could indeed be difficult for this guy to extricate himself from the situation without offending the family (one or more of them). I had suggested not buying from a relative (regardless of the price) because schep23 mentioned he was going to search the diamond district for a better deal, and I thought that meant he could get out of the deal with the uncle if he wanted to.

But if buying from the uncle is the only way to keep peace in the family. then I guess it doesn't matter whether he's being overcharged (the title of the thread), he's pretty much stuck.

 

[Greg]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 7:06:28 PM fancycoloredfan wrote:

Why are you going with a K VVS2?----------------

I think the stone is an H color. The K in his post was for karat (like with gold instead of carat for diamonds).

 

[chialea]

Well, I've seen some lovely rectangle princess-cut stones, so it's just a question of preference. If it's a nice stone that you like, it's a great price. If it's not a nice stone, then say that you'd prefer something that's a little differnt. He's going to be family, right? You can work with him on this.

Just out of curiousity, has your SO seen this stone? He might be poking you towards something she's already picked out... Or you could pick something out together with him, all three of you. Her saying "well, I like this better than this" might go over easily, if you don't feel you can say it.

EDIT: EyesOfTexas is right to warn you about the diamond district. There are some good deals and some fair prices, but there are also people trying to take advantage of people who aren't professionals with years of experience to warn them of scams. Just be wary (but polite) and make any sale you make contingent on a satisfactory independent appraisal, as is smart for any diamond purchase.

 

[schep23]

to all that have responded,
I would like to thank all of you for your comments and I apologize to texas for my earlier comments. I was wrong and yes I did ask for comments so I should have taken mt own advice kept MY comments to myself. Anyway I have been reading all of your comments and many of you make very good points. I have come to the realization that it is a pretty good price for a vvs2 stone that size and color. But the one thing that is hanging me up is the shape and I have expressed that to him. Also I dont think she has seen the stone she is pretty well set on a princess cut and i dont think she would pick out a stone that shape instead. I am going to see the stone an saturday and will keep you all updated. Also is vvs2 that much more noticeable than say vs2 or vs1? In other words does it pay to go with a higher rated stone in this catagory? Again thank you all for your comments, they have all been very helpful.

 

[chialea]

It's quite unlikely you'll be able to see inclusions in a VS stone, but double-check to be sure. You're paying more than you need to on clarity, unless you're amazingly eagle-eyed.

 

[solange]

I live in Manhattan and spent several months looking in the Diamond District before I bought on line from Whiteflash.
I went to everyone's "favorite" jeweler and saw a lot of inferior stones which I was told were Ideal and would not be available if I did not buy that day other some other pressure tactic. I also found it amost impossible to get a Sarin,OGI, Idealscope or any other information not on the Cert. Appraisals are very costly in Manhattan and I did not want to take a lot of stones for appraisal to get the information the Pricescope vendors usually provide.
I am sure there are some very reliable dealers in the Diamond District but i did not find one. Also their overhead is high and I found much better prices on Pricescope. I also got my stone sent to an appraiser in the Diamond District where I could see it before I bought it. I had very specific rrequirements and Lesley at Whiteflash spent a few months looking for a stone that I am thrilled with. The Diamond District is very competitive and high pressure and there are people almost pulling you off the sreet to get you into their store. You really have to have a good connection there. There are a few very reliable Pricescope dealers in the Diamond District. If you go, you might try them.
As for the the clarity issue ther is a big difference in cost for something you really cannot see. In a Princess where flaws are more obvious, a Vs1 or 2 that is eye clean would probably do very nicely and either lower the cost or enable you to get a larger or better color stone.Good luck.

 

[hoorray]

I looked in the NY Diamond district (not extensively), but no one had full information on the stones, and I only saw one Ideal stone the whole time. (And they couldn't give me specifics -- just that it was ideal cut Round Brillant.) I ended up buying on
line, and got a better cut stone, comparable color, size and clarity for 20% less than the diamond district offering prices.)

I think there is some good advice here. Clarity is expensive, and you usually can't see anything at least to a VS2. The price being offered seems good, but don't take a stone that isn't the right one. See if this uncle can help you find the right one.

 

[pqcollectibles]

You need more info on the diamond than just the L,W, and Depth dimensions. Check out the Cut Charts at www.gemappraisers.com. Once you have all the info you need, you can use the DIY system to grade the Cut Class. Then you can get a more accurate idea if this diamond will be a decent performer or a waste of time to even consider.

I second HeadLight's comment about doing business with family. You don't want to feel obligated to drop a ton of money on a diamond you aren't totally pleased with. If you decide not to buy the diamond, you might piss them off. Real potential for a "loose/loose" proposition in this situation.

Just my $0.02 worth. Good Luck to you how ever you decide to proceed.