AGS CERTIFICATE AFTER RE-CUT?

[diannbengo]

BGD is re-cutting my diamond. I will never sell this diamond so is it worth getting an AGS after it's done? For what reasons? Thanks.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I also had a family diamond recut by BG. I saw no reason to send it to AGS. I had it appraised after it was set locally for about $40 to add on to insurance. The recut is WELL worth doing, by the way! I look forward to seeing yours!

 

[denverappraiser]

I"m going to guess that BG is cutting to AGS standards and, assuming you are going to insure it for replacement if it's lost or stolen, you would want that replacement to also be to AGS standards. That's the reason to document it. If you're not going to insure it and you're not going to sell it, I see very little benefit unless you're just one of those people who wants to have a piece of paper to point at to show what a nice job he did.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

A reason to have a new AGS cert done, even if you are going to self-insure, is for long term valuation purposes. As an heirloom the diamond is more likely to be accurately understood and appreciated by updating the documentation after re-cut.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes, I would do it for identification purposes just in case if you needed to have the item repair by a jeweler. I asked Wink to send my stone to AGS after in was recut by CBI.

 

[ame]

I would absolutely get the stone regraded. That would be a non-negotiable. It's a good thing for insurance and, for later resale/upgrade if you choose to do so.

 

[HeartingDiamonds]

I"m going to guess that BG is cutting to AGS standards and, assuming you are going to insure it for replacement if it's lost or stolen, you would want that replacement to also be to AGS standards. That's the reason to document it. If you're not going to insure it and you're not going to sell it, I see very little benefit unless you're just one of those people who wants to have a piece of paper to point at to show what a nice job he did.

Exactly this!

 

[HeartingDiamonds]

I"m going to guess that BG is cutting to AGS standards and, assuming you are going to insure it for replacement if it's lost or stolen, you would want that replacement to also be to AGS standards. That's the reason to document it. If you're not going to insure it and you're not going to sell it, I see very little benefit unless you're just one of those people who wants to have a piece of paper to point at to show what a nice job he did.

Exactly this!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

She said resale is not an option, but even if so, it may or may not benefit her in that respect. BG does NOT guarantee AGS 000 or hearts and arrows perfection on recuts. So some might be disappointed to get AGS 1, etc.

My diamond is covered for more than enough and I choose my own replacement. BG does supply you with all the images of the stone after the recut and all the measurements from a Sarin, so there is more info there than there is on an AGS report.

I will say this, as far as future generations ditching the stone, I am not sure a 40 year old report would hold much weight if the report was even still available with the ring. It would need an updated report then anyway.

How much does it cost anyway? Do you have to pay for shipping to AGS and the AGS report fee?

 

[diannbengo]

It's $200 for the cert. plus shipping and insurance. The shipping was a zinger, it cost me $350 to ship to BG. Those are some very good points....identification purposes, but what good would an AGS be 40 years from now? I could have it appraised by a diamond appraiser for insurance purposes.

 

[WinkHPD]

BGD is re-cutting my diamond. I will never sell this diamond so is it worth getting an AGS after it's done? For what reasons? Thanks.

Absolutely, in my opinion, for both the vendor and the owner's protection, and it should receive an initial report BEFORE the cutting is done.

Many years ago and pre Pricescope,this happened to a friend of mine. He had a client who wanted a diamond recut. It had been purchased by the lady who had bought it from a competitor of his because it was cheaper than the one that he had offered her that was actually well cut. It had an EGL report that was equal to the GIA rport on the more expensive diamond he had offered her. (hmmm, this really has been an issue for a LONG time.)

She hated the lifeless lump of crystallized carbon that she had purchased and wanted him to make it beautiful.

He sent it to a cutter and had it recut.

When it came back she asked him to get a GIA report on it.

Guess what, the GIA report came back a grade lower in both color and clarity. In her mind this translated to him having switched her diamond. She filed a claim with her credit card company for a refund on the cost of the recut and on the cost of the report. American Express decided that she deserved a discount and gave her about half of the cost back.

Two months later he got a call form xyz insurance company demanding that he owed them the $30,000 they had paid the client for her diamond. This was actually about $10,000 more than she had paid for her diamond. The vendor who had sold her the diamond was offering $10,000 for the "damaged" diamond as salvage. He offered $15,000 and told the insurance company that they had a legal issue with their adjuster who paid more than the client spent on the diamond and that he would sell them the replacement for $20,000 all day long and that since he was one of their authorized replacement specialists that he knew their proper procedures, which their adjuster had not met. The insurance company declined his offer on the salvage and eventually went away on the bogus request for him to pay for having returned the actual diamond that he had sent to be recut, especially since it was now beautiful. He also went to a local polygraph expert and took a Poly which he also submitted to the insurance company, at his expense. (This was back when you could actually do that.)

Moral of the story, vendors need protection as well as clients do. Had she informed him that she wanted a GIA report, he would have sent it to be graded by GIA and told them it was being recut, and then the finished diamond could have been graded at a discount. Voila, no hysterical client, no successful refund on her credit card, and no claim for restitution from the insurance company. (Who, by the way, agreed with him that the claim was bogus when he explained what happened, and it was revealed to him that the adjuster was under termination proceedings for his gross mishandling of the claim.)

In fact, had she told him she wanted a GIA report prior to the recutting, when it came back a color and a clarity grade lower, she could have had a valid cause to complain to the original vendor rather than about him for just doing what he was asked.

This is a scary world out there for people just doing their jobs, as well as for the people relying on them to do their jobs. It is critical, that when such big dollars are at stake for color and clarity grades that can be visually indistinguishable to the human eye without magnification that both sides protect themselves.

You can be sure I am MUCH more careful now because of what happened to my friend than I was back then, and while I see some saying that this is not necessary for the consumer, I wish to counter that it is surely necessary for the vendor. In today's world a vendor could be crucified and years' worth of excellent reputation destroyed by such a thing, regardless of the fact that he/she actually did nothing wrong.

Just my thoughts.

Wink

 

[FancyIntense]

Why did it cost you so much to mail it to BG? That sounds really high.

Did they ask you to send it in a specific way by a specific carrier? Or do you just have a mucho expensive stone?

 

[denverappraiser]

It's $200 for the cert. plus shipping and insurance. The shipping was a zinger, it cost me $350 to ship to BG. Those are some very good points....identification purposes, but what good would an AGS be 40 years from now? I could have it appraised by a diamond appraiser for insurance purposes.

I second the question of why shipping was so much. Are you outside of the US? Even then it would be going directly from BG to the lab. Surely he can do better than that.

 

[diannbengo]

No, I'm in the US. I'm definitely going to ask about that. I haven't paid it yet, they sent me a prepaid label. But that's how much she said it would be.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You must have a big diamond for the shipping to be that high! If so, then maybe you'd benefit more from the AGS report than I would. But on the other hand, I would not want to pay that much to ship to AGS, back to BG, and then back to you. Sounds crazy!

 

[diannbengo]

I agree, the shipping fees are really adding up! That's why I wanted to know if there's a really good reason to have it AGS certified.

 

[FancyIntense]

Is it an option that you send it on your own without their label since you're responsible while it's on the way to them anyway? Because if they generate the lable and the diamond gets lost then they make a claim with the shipper on your diamond? Experts? How does that work?

I contacted them myself two weeks ago and asked for all the charges up front bottom line price. It did not include a shipping label. The reason I happen to ask this (even though I would have asked anyway) is because I have heard BG having hidden charges for shipping that make people feel reamed.

I wonder if I say I'm ready to send my diamond in to BG if I'll get an overpriced label too?

I contacted another vendor that is on PS that does recuts at the same time and there was a $330 difference in price which I'd rather hear up front than have a surprise shipping charge added to the bottom line even if they come out the same price. I don't like surprises when it comes to spending money and especially when I ask for all the charges up front. This included an AGSL certificate.

 

[diannbengo]

That's something I hadn't thought about. We have insurance on it too as do they. I couldn't ship it with enough shipping insurance on it, but they could. Now I'm wondering if I should pay the return shipping fee myself, but I can't get enough shipping insurance. Now I'm worried, if it gets lost, they would make a claim? What about our private insurance we have on it?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That's something I hadn't thought about. We have insurance on it too as do they. I couldn't ship it with enough shipping insurance on it, but they could. Now I'm wondering if I should pay the return shipping fee myself, but I can't get enough shipping insurance. Now I'm worried, if it gets lost, they would make a claim? What about our private insurance we have on it?

I absolutely would only ship through them and their insurance. If you shipped it and it was lost, your insurance would be replacing the old, not-so-well-cut stone. Not to mention, a lot of insurance won't insure a loose stone period. It needs to be set before you change your insurance to the new stone/ring. If it was lost and insured by them, they'd have to deal with the claim. I still think $300+ sounds high, though. I would just ask him what they would charge to write up an insurance valuation on the new stone with whatever setting it is going to be set in. Preferably have them do the setting so you receive the finished ring. This would be enough for me if I was sure I was not planning to sell the stone.

 

[WinkHPD]

Is it an option that you send it on your own without their label since you're responsible while it's on the way to them anyway? Because if they generate the lable and the diamond gets lost then they make a claim with the shipper on your diamond? Experts? How does that work?

I contacted them myself two weeks ago and asked for all the charges up front bottom line price. It did not include a shipping label. The reason I happen to ask this (even though I would have asked anyway) is because I have heard BG having hidden charges for shipping that make people feel reamed.

I wonder if I say I'm ready to send my diamond in to BG if I'll get an overpriced label too?

I contacted another vendor that is on PS that does recuts at the same time and there was a $330 difference in price which I'd rather hear up front than have a surprise shipping charge added to the bottom line even if they come out the same price. I don't like surprises when it comes to spending money and especially when I ask for all the charges up front. This included an AGSL certificate.

If you send it via USPS you can insure it on your own, but it may take a long time to get there. There are different coverages available depending on the service also. I believe that currently there is a $5,000 limit on Priority Mail, while the limit on Express mail is much higher. The most secure, and the slowest, is Registered mail, which I have seen take up to three weeks to arrive.

If you send Fedex you will pay for insurance, but if you have to file a claim you will find that you were not covered in the small print for more than $100.

We jewelers have secondary insurance that does cover your jewelry and loose diamonds, but only if you are using our labels or if we are shipping to you.

I would ask a couple of questions about the shipping costs. Is this a one way expense or round trip? What is the total value of your diamond? $300 plus for a one way trip on a ten thousand dollar diamond would be pretty high. The same fee, round trip, for a $300,000 diamond would be a bargain.

Wink

 

[diannbengo]

It is round trip including insurance, and it's a full ring including the setting, and it's worth quite a bit over 10k. So maybe the charge isn't unreasonable?

 

[WinkHPD]

Indeed. You might want to call and ask them to explain the cost to you, but they are certainly in the realm of reasonable, for a round trip on an expensive piece.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

You're probably only talking about adding one leg to the trip but it depends on how the logistics are going. To be sure, insurance is the driving issue here. $150/leg will buy quite a bit but it's not unlimited and it most definitely depends on your declared value.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

USPS registered mail insures items worth up to $25,000. So I take it the diamond is worth a lot more than $25k? Because that is the safest way for you to send it or even them as it would cost a lot less than $300. But from what you were saying, I am assuming this diamond must be worth a lot more than $25k, is that correct?

Just because I was curious, if you or they used a medium priority mail flat rate box, the shipping would be $12.65 plus insurance for $25,000 at $53.50 for a total of $66.15. That was for sending from the east coast to CA, just as an example.