ex-friend, and why not to date people at work.

[zdrastvootya]

Here''s a scenario, followed by a question. (Long story - I''ll try to be brief.)

Around 10 years ago, i started dating someone who worked on the same floor in my dept. We went out for a month or so, and I was falling head over heels. I thought we were exclusive, but I didn''t ask. Mistake. One weekend, she doesn''t return my calls. Then she doesn''t come into work Monday. I''m getting concerned. More unreturned messages. Tues., still no show. Wed. my male co-worker asks me to lunch to tell me something important - he''s excited. Can you guess where this is going? He announces to me, that he and XXX are getting married! He explains, she didn''t want to go out with him at first - she said she was seeing someone. But he persisted asking until she relented. They went out and had a great time. They went out a 2nd time (or 3rd time, can''t remember). Great again, he asked her to marry him; she said yes. I say nothing, but he was probably surprised at my less than ecstatic reaction. Later, XXX explains I was the person she was seeing. From then on, everytime he sees me he has a stupid smirk on his face. (He''s a competitive person, it seems he''s enjoying having won this competition. Or he just thinks it''s funny, which it is but I''m not laughing.) XXX returns to work and makes the announcement. The entire floor celebrates this wonderful union. There''s a big countdown till their married ticker on the bulletin board. Celebration lunches. I decline and try to ignore. My co-worker continues to smirk. I turn down his lunch invitations. His brother calls me to invite me to the bachelor party. Nice. Finally, I met individually with each, wished them well and cut off further association. Co-worker keeps inviting me to lunch but I decline. Eventually they leave the company for other jobs.

Fast forward. Every few years, former co-worker tries to contact me. Bumped into him at lunch - he gives me card, I''m polite but not warm. Messages at work. I don''t return them. Latest, messages at home.

Question. Is this wrong or unfair? We weren''t close friends. I would say co-workers and lunchmates. Re-establishing contact would remind me of a very unpleasant time for me. My former co-worker''s motives are unclear (especially since I won''t speak to him!). There''s that competitve thing he had. I''m sure he makes more money than I do; the wife is higher up in the corporate food chain than I am. (Bad me, I was googling their names out of curiosity.) She has kids. I assume they''re still together and live a big-house, idyllic life. Jealous me? Probably. I think I need to get over it, and the easiest way is no contact. What do you think? (Sorry this was so long - I thought I could condense, but I couldn''t.)

Z.

 

[lumpkin]

Sounds to me like they deserve each other. I would definitely not be in touch with either of them, but especially him. Competition that inspires you to do well, where it''s friendly and where you rejoice in each other''s accomplishments is healthy in a friendship. The kind of competition he has is not good for a friendship at all. Sounds like a 1st class jerk to me.

 

[jcrow]

yeh, i see no need for communication with these two. not sure why he wants to be SO friendly and so presistant. strange.

 

[VegasAngel]

Oh my goodness.

I agree with Lumpkin. Forget about them, you''re definitely better off avoiding them. Why do they keep bothering you? Tell them to get lost. Personally, if I was in that situation I know that If I did decided to be in their presence I would feel really uncomfortable. There is no way I would be able to be around them.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

You have no obligation to speak to either of them. I would continue to politely decline all invitations. Hopefully, they''ll stop contacting you in time.

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi, Just live your life happily and they would soon just be a page in past and you will find that nothing about them bothers you anymore. But most importantly, you have to be truly happy and contented with what you is going on in your life right now and stop thinking about how good it is going for them. The co-worker of yours seems to be a show-off which also seems to me that he thinks XXX is a trophy and like you said, he won the competition. If he needs to constantly seek comfort or assurance from showing off to you, maybe it is a sign that their life is not as good as it seems? Just my two cents..

 

[KimberlyH]

Strange that he keeps pushing the issue, even after all these years. I would continue to avoid contact with him.

 

[Mara]

i agree with the others...though i would probably end up talking to him next time he called me AT HOME (totally unacceptable IMO) and let him know that i have no interest in pursuing a friendship with him and could he please stop calling. it would really bug me if he called me at home after his work messages went unanswered. get the hint buddy!! and why is he so interested in still talking to you?? obviously you have moved on...so he should too. sounds like maybe his life isn''t as ''full'' as he''d like for you to believe, but that is his deal, not yours.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Thanks for the feedback. (I know good impartial advice got me past that situation, back when.)

As far as trying to contact me periodically after all these years, part of me thinks that he didn''t like that I ended our friendship (although really, we weren''t that close) - that he lost that part of the "game". That he can still "win". His reasons could be more altruistic. Again, I don''t know. It could be a business proposition or selling me something - that would be gross.

It would be good if he stopped. I''m always brought up short by the sound of his voice on my voicemail or answering machine. (Although it doesn''t happen very often.) I was thinking of contacting him to tell him to stop, but I don''t really want speak to him/exchange pleasantries. In a way, I''ve been lucky he''s only ever gotten to my voicemail/answering machine. But not responding feels a little passive/agressive. I guess he does take the hint, and then tries again every couple of years.

Z.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I think your instincts are right on this one. Something is fishy. Sounds like he got a thrill out of feeling like he had beaten you. Maybe that thrill is missing in his life and he's hoping to reignite it. Or maybe he feels like he was a jerk and wants to make amends. Either way, this is all about him and making himself feel better. Or maybe he's even unhappy and feels like you're someone he could confide that in because of your history. Lastly, it could be that he hopes to bring you back into their lives so he can accuse his wife of still liking you. Again, none of these scenarios is good for you, just for him.

Did you know Ted Bundy's rampage may have been started because an ex had broken his heart so badly? So after he had begun dating someone else and killing others, he looked her up and they started "dating" again. He proposed and she said yes. Then he dumped her unceremoniously and went on his merry murderous way. He said he just wanted to prove to himself that he could have her back. Maybe that's what is going on in this guy's head . . . it's something to prove to himself to be friends with you again.

I'd probably answer the phone when he calls once (don't return a message, then you had to trouble yourself over him). Sound a little confused over who he is and make him identify himself twice. "Oh . . . right . . . hi!" Sound surprised to hear from him and all the more confused. When he asks you to have lunch, sound still more confused then declare overenthusiastically how great it would be. "Oh . . . um . . . yeah! That would be great! Um . . . let's see . . ." Then just tell him you're busy for the next few weeks and will call him if a good time presents itself. If he pushes it, just say, "Look [name], it'd definitely be fun to catch up for old time's sake. I just have a bunch of lunch meetings coming up and my social calendar's full. I'll have to let you know."

 

[Cehrabehra]

I agree with most here that there is no reason for contact with him.... and I would continue to be aloof. I wouldn''t make a scene, just be perpetually too busy to engage a conversation - ignore the caller ID, don''t return calls, always "I''m sorry, i''m in a rush and cannot talk now - I''ll call you later" and then don''t.

I will say though that it is possible that his smirk is not all smirk. It is possible that he is also living with guilt. But that''s not your problem. Let him live with it. If you have no desire to forgive then on the outside chance he may seek that forgiveness, just cut it off at the start and never give him that opportunity.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 7/13/2007 11:21:13 AM
Author: phoenixgirl
I think your instincts are right on this one. Something is fishy. Sounds like he got a thrill out of feeling like he had beaten you. Maybe that thrill is missing in his life and he''s hoping to reignite it. Or maybe he feels like he was a jerk and wants to make amends. Either way, this is all about him and making himself feel better. Or maybe he''s even unhappy and feels like you''re someone he could confide that in because of your history. Lastly, it could be that he hopes to bring you back into their lives so he can accuse his wife of still liking you. Again, none of these scenarios is good for you, just for him.

Did you know Ted Bundy''s rampage may have been started because an ex had broken his heart so badly? So after he had begun dating someone else and killing others, he looked her up and they started ''dating'' again. He proposed and she said yes. Then he dumped her unceremoniously and went on his merry murderous way. He said he just wanted to prove to himself that he could have her back. Maybe that''s what is going on in this guy''s head . . . it''s something to prove to himself to be friends with you again.

I''d probably answer the phone when he calls once (don''t return a message, then you had to trouble yourself over him). Sound a little confused over who he is and make him identify himself twice. ''Oh . . . right . . . hi!'' Sound surprised to hear from him and all the more confused. When he asks you to have lunch, sound still more confused then declare overenthusiastically how great it would be. ''Oh . . . um . . . yeah! That would be great! Um . . . let''s see . . .'' Then just tell him you''re busy for the next few weeks and will call him if a good time presents itself. If he pushes it, just say, ''Look [name], it''d definitely be fun to catch up for old time''s sake. I just have a bunch of lunch meetings coming up and my social calendar''s full. I''ll have to let you know.''

Ok, the Ted Bundy thing is kind of freaking me out.

Speaking of freaked, I opened my company address book and his name was on the page. I guess I was trying to figure out if he or wife rejoined the company last time I was in there, hence the phone calls. This time HIS NAME IS THERE. The name is common enough to be another person, but still.... And of course, he''s a senior/senior-senior manager now. (I''m more of a middle manager.)

I appreciate your suggestion about "I''m too busy", but if he''s is VP/Director/King of the World, I want to chat with him even less now

My career hasn''t been a lightning bolt, but I''m good at what I do (more technical). I don''t make 6 figures, but I make a pretty good salary. And people like me. I have good friends, and Mrs. Z of course. Sometimes I regret not being more corporately ambitious, or stab-people-in-the-back ambitious and weaselly

Z.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 7/13/2007 12:02:48 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
I agree with most here that there is no reason for contact with him.... and I would continue to be aloof. I wouldn''t make a scene, just be perpetually too busy to engage a conversation - ignore the caller ID, don''t return calls, always ''I''m sorry, i''m in a rush and cannot talk now - I''ll call you later'' and then don''t.

I will say though that it is possible that his smirk is not all smirk. It is possible that he is also living with guilt. But that''s not your problem. Let him live with it. If you have no desire to forgive then on the outside chance he may seek that forgiveness, just cut it off at the start and never give him that opportunity.

It could be argued that back when, there was nothing to forgive. He didn''t know I was seeing XXX. The smirk could be a misinterpretation on my part. The official Z. position is that there is nothing to forgive, and that I''ve moved past that incident in my life.

Z.

 

[Nicrez]

When people gloat, it's just an insecurity hidden under self-confidence. Something about his marraige may be unsettled so he feels better knowing he WON her. You remind him that once in his life he won at SOMETHING. Poor guy. He is chasing YOUR friendship, clearly he's the one missing something, NOT you.

And so, the pity you feel for him should be no reason to speak to him. Why give him the sad sardonic pleasure of your friendship? Personally I would just say "honestly, I have moved way past this friendship years ago, and I would have thought you would have too. We weren't even close and I just don't think it's necessary. Good luck with things!"

Unless he REALLY misses your friendship. Which is possible, but as you stated you weren't even that close...? It's a bit dubious.

It's laughable really. So be glad that fate has a way of making things just as they should be...

 

[Pandora II]

Hmm, I''m going to throw out another suggestion...

For a few years when I was in Italy I lived ina very small town where basically everyone knew everyone. I hung around with a group who were the ''in'' crowd so to speak - it was lots of fun. A few years later I was dating a guy who hung round with a different group - who were all a bit geeky. They were fun too - except they were all convinced that this ''in'' group were always looking at them strangely, looking down on them, laughing at them etc

Having spent several years with this first group, I knew that none of us were ever looking down at or laughing at the second group. To be honest we didn''t even notice them; we were far to busy having fun and getting on with our own lives.

At the end of the day if you are either envious or paranoid, the only person you hurt is yourself. This guy may not have intended anything in the way you think. I also think you look at him in an odd way - I would be worried for anyone who got engaged after 3 dates!

Lots of successful or very good looking people are unhappy underneath and have just as many worries as less successful people.

Maybe you should try giving him the benefit of the doubt? After all, your lives have both moved on.

 

[crown1]

pandora, you have the same idea i had and i felt i should not offer it. i like your way of saying it. i hope it helps z out some.

 

[poshpepper]

Date: 7/13/2007 9:57:02 AM
Author: lumpkin
Sounds to me like they deserve each other. I would definitely not be in touch with either of them, but especially him. Competition that inspires you to do well, where it''s friendly and where you rejoice in each other''s accomplishments is healthy in a friendship. The kind of competition he has is not good for a friendship at all. Sounds like a 1st class jerk to me.

Couldn''t have said it better!

I agree that you should continue to ignore them and not have contact. What an unfortunate situation.
I wish you the best.

 

[diamondfan]

I see no reason to revisit this. He is married to her but it likely bugs him that you two dated. It is not worth stirring up, you do not need him as a friend so just continue to ignore him. I would be curious what he wanted, so I might send an email back saying you were surprised to hear from him and really are not sure what he is looking for in contacting you...maybe it is something benign, but ultimately I would not go there!

 

[Allisonfaye]

Is it possible the smirk is a look of embarrassment?
I, like DF, would be somewhat curious as to what it was he wanted. But it is entirely YOUR call whether you are curious enough yourself.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 7/13/2007 12:37:04 PM
Author: Pandora II
Hmm, I''m going to throw out another suggestion...

For a few years when I was in Italy I lived ina very small town where basically everyone knew everyone. I hung around with a group who were the ''in'' crowd so to speak - it was lots of fun. A few years later I was dating a guy who hung round with a different group - who were all a bit geeky. They were fun too - except they were all convinced that this ''in'' group were always looking at them strangely, looking down on them, laughing at them etc

Having spent several years with this first group, I knew that none of us were ever looking down at or laughing at the second group. To be honest we didn''t even notice them; we were far to busy having fun and getting on with our own lives.

At the end of the day if you are either envious or paranoid, the only person you hurt is yourself. This guy may not have intended anything in the way you think. I also think you look at him in an odd way - I would be worried for anyone who got engaged after 3 dates!

Lots of successful or very good looking people are unhappy underneath and have just as many worries as less successful people.

Maybe you should try giving him the benefit of the doubt? After all, your lives have both moved on.

Pandora,

appreciate your feedback. I agree that the issues are mine and not his. My view of that past situation is skewed, I know. Friends told me this, back when. The fact I still don''t want to speak with him is my issue.

It''s wrong of me to be jealous. I made certain decisions and career stuff was lower down on my priorities. Foolish to be jealous of people that have different priorities or are more driven career-wise. There are always tradeoffs. I need to stick to my philosophy of judging people on merits, and not on titles, money, toys. Life is more than a competition on those measures. How a person behaves when no one is looking, how people treat those they don''t have to be nice to are probably better measures of a person. Okay, off my soapbox.

Z.

ps. I''m pretty sure that the name I found on the company listing is someone else with the same name. Plus, it doesn''t really matter, does it?

 

[CaptAubrey]

Interesting thread. Let me play devil''s advocate for a minute.

My philosophy has always been to give people a certain benefit of the doubt. You admit that you really don''t know what he''s up to trying to reestablish contact. Why not give him a second chance and see what he wants? What''s he harm, really?

One angle you''re not seeing here is that they represent contacts further up the corporate food chain. You can blow them off, or you can use them. Would it be so bad to have a friend/associate who might be able to nudge your career along?

It''s obvious you need to move past this whole incident somehow. Maybe the best way is to let go and worry about what this guy wants in the future, not what the three of you did 10 years ago.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Sorry to freak you out with the Ted Bundy thing! (I''ve been watching too much tv with my summer off!)

Yeah, just let it go. Who knows what his motivation is, but you can''t force a friendship. That''s what makes me think his intentions are more malicious than benign. Otherwise he''d probably just say in a message, "Look, I know we haven''t talked in a long time, but I really valued our friendship and would love to catch up with you" or something.

BTW, your workplace love triangle made me think of Kate Winslet''s situation in the movie The Holiday. She''s hung up on a guy who''s stringing her along, and then even when he''s engaged to someone else from their work he still wants to keep her hooked on him. But in your case it''s the other guy who won''t let you go.