Anyone Eastern Orthodox? Etiquette questions...

[Independent Gal]

One of my good friends is converting to eastern orthodoxy (Russian variety I believe) and will have his ceremony and take communion in that church for the first time next weekend. He asked us if we''d like to attend and we said yes!

So, my questions are:

1) Is it appropriate to give a gift when someone converts? If so, any suggestions?

2) Are there any dress-code related things I should know about? e.g., I assume it''s fairly dressy, but should I, e.g., avoid showing too much leg?

 

[neatfreak]

Most Orthodox churches require no bared shoulders and no shorts. I think it really depends on each church here though, but I would cover my shoulders and wear pants or a longer skirt and tights/hose if it were me.

 

[rainbowtrout]

My maid of honor is Russian Orthodox. From my talks with her (and going to their church) I can tell you that the answer to 2) is yes, Sunday best, and yes, at least a knee length skirt (which I would put hose with), no shoulders, no cleavage, etc. Obviously it can vary a bit from congregation to congregation.

As for 1), I don''t know, since her husband declined to convert...I am assuming a small gift related to Orthodoxy might be welcome. My maid of honor got a calendar of Saint''s Days for her mom for a recent holiday... You could also get a nice, Russian Orthodox commentary on a meaningful passage of the Bible dealing with conversion (such as Ruth in the Old Testament), etc. maybe a book on the history of the church (make sure it isn''t a bashing one first, obv.)

 

[baby monster]

1. You can give her a gift of lighting a candle at the church for her health. Ask her which icon she prefers.
2. No pants, long skirt, no sleeveless, no cleavage, some churches require women to cover their head (bring a scarf).

 

[Independent Gal]

Ahahahaaaa! Haha. ha. But seriously folks.

 

[Independent Gal]

Thanks for the suggestions, folks. I will wear my most conservative Sunday best and bring something to cover my head.

Re gifts: this friend is very intellectual. I bet he would love a history of the church... although I''d bet even more that he has half a dozen already.

What about a nice coffee table book about eastern orthodox icons? Would that be appropriate?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/21/2008 1:40:44 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Thanks for the suggestions, folks. I will wear my most conservative Sunday best and bring something to cover my head.


Re gifts: this friend is very intellectual. I bet he would love a history of the church... although I'd bet even more that he has half a dozen already.


What about a nice coffee table book about eastern orthodox icons? Would that be appropriate?

Maybe this is because I am jewish and we don't do idols, but I personally think a coffee table book about something as sacred (I assume they are sacred in RO, but I don't really know) as idols is really offputting...it almost seems to defame them somehow.

 

[Independent Gal]

Hmmm. That is an excellent point, Neatfreak. DH''s family actually collects Icons, which has probably made them seem more like art and less like sacred objects to us. But we better be careful in case our friend doesn''t see it that way.

I really have no knowledge of how icons are perceived within the Eastern Orthodox church. Can anyone help?

 

[baby monster]

Icons are certainly not decorations but they are often displayed at home as a place to pray.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/21/2008 3:22:12 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Hmmm. That is an excellent point, Neatfreak. DH's family actually collects Icons, which has probably made them seem more like art and less like sacred objects to us. But we better be careful in case our friend doesn't see it that way.


I really have no knowledge of how icons are perceived within the Eastern Orthodox church. Can anyone help?

I totally get the art vs. sacred objects thing. Being jewish they all seem like art to me too! But I am sensitive to the fact that others think they are idols...

I *believe* (and I am not an expert here) that they don't believe in them as decoration, and that they take the St. John of Damascus's "On the Divine Image". But I could be wrong here, this is just what I seem to recall...

 

[Independent Gal]

OK, too risky. I certainly don''t want to offend him in any way. Nix the Icon coffee table book idea.

Hmmm. Maybe back to the history type book idea. Or a nice edition of an important religious text.

In a pinch, is a bottle of good wine appropriate?

I sent him a picture of that hat btw, and he thought it was pretty funny!

 

[Independent Gal]

I think I found the perfect book. It''s called "The Meaning of Icons."

Here''s the description:

"The first of its kind to give a reliable introduction into the spiritual background of icons. The nature of the icon cannot be grasped by means of pure art criticism, nor by the adoption of a sentimental point of view. Its forms are based on the wisdom contained in the theological and liturgical writings of the Eastern Orthodox Church and are intimately bound up with the experience of contemplative life. A very interesting section of the technique of icon painting is followed by the main part of the book, in which both authors describe the most important types of icons. Special mention is due to 51 icons reproduced in their complete colorful splendor."

It''s put out by St. Vladimir Seminary Press, so I''m assuming that means it is appropriate and respectful.

Yay! Done. I think he''ll love that.

 

[neatfreak]

Ohhh I think that sounds great! Good job Indy!

 

[Deelight]

I''m orthodox

No pants it is like a big no no women are forbidden to wear pants to church, you should wear a skirt knee length or lower

Have you ever been to an orthodox church before?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Too bad your friend isn''t a girl or you could get her this:

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=332

(They say it''s for either sex, but I think it looks more feminine)

 

[swingirl]

Keep in mind Russian Orthodox churches don't usually had seats. They will have chairs around the perimeter for mothers with babies and elderly but they believe you shouldn't be able to get all comfy in church. So wear shoes that you can stand in.

And yes, a book about Russian history, music, icons, the church, etc would be a very nice gift.

 

[AGBF]

I wasn't able to use the computer at all yesterday, but I saw this thread today. I am familiar with Saint John the Baptist Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in Bridgeport, Connecticut which does have pews where parishioners can sit. I guess it is not in the strict Russian Orthodox tradition.

What I can tell you from attending family services there (mainly funerals) is that women wear hats and that people wear black to funerals. When I was growing up women covered their heads (either with hats or mantillas) in Roman Catholic churches, too, and generally wore black to funerals. I believe that wearing black changed with Vatican II and the idea of a celebratory, white mass about ascension into heaven in the Roman Catholic Church. I am fairly sure that Protestant churches expected people to wear black to funerals as did Jewish synagogues. I am just going by my own recollections, but I remember black as being ubiquitous at funerals.

I have seen a movie of a wedding in the church mentioned above (my aunt and uncle). At one point crowns are placed on their heads and then removed.

You seem to have figured out your clothing and your gift already, so I was just sharing .

Let us know how everything goes.

Deb

 

[partgypsy]

I was raised Greek Orthodox but am not active in the church right now. It sounds like Russian Orthodox is a little different; for my old church though there is alot of standing, there are pews! Often the family will get the family member some gift, often a cross pendant for a necklace, a bible if you do not have one already, but at least from what I remember nothing giftwise expected from non-family members.
Skirts, dresses are safe. I don''t remember a specific prohibition against pants, but then again don''t remember any women wearing them either.
In Greek orthodox you don''t need to cover your head. There are usually a few ancient women in the front with covered heads but not the rest.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 4/22/2008 11:35:12 AM

Author: part gypsy


In Greek orthodox you don't need to cover your head. There are usually a few ancient women in the front with covered heads but not the rest.

My mother, although of Slovak ethnicity, was raised in the Greek Catholic religion. The Greek Catholics looked to the Pope as the head of their Church. There was a schism within the Greek Catholic community when the Pope decided to stop allowing Greek Catholic priests to marry as they had always been able to do. I know that research on the issue was done in Constantinople in the late 1930s, just before World War II.

Many Greek Catholic communities split up over the issue, including my mother's. At that time, some joined together with the Greek Orthodox Church. My mother's church did that.

They have pews, unlike the Russian Orthodox Church. I may not be up to date on the headgear. They may have moved along to hat-optional now, but somehow I doubt it. Because every other Greek Orthodox Church I know has moved Christmas to December 25 and I do know that Christmas remains on January 7 for my mother's old church, however! As my mother has put it: they will never change to December 25 (like everyone else), "because they know they are right". (Since she left the Greek Catholic Church and became first a Unitarian and then a Quaker many years ago, you must understand that she was just fondly poking fun at the enormous sureness of being right that the church she was raised in had always had.)

Orthodox Easter remains fixed to the old calendar, but not Christmas...except for in my mother's church.

Deborah