Help! 2 year old won't stay in his bed- advice needed!

[Logan Sapphire]

My son turned 2 in April and had been escaping quite easily and steathily from his crib for about 3 weeks when we decided it was time to move him out of his crib and turn it into a daybed. While he was still in his crib, he started coming into our room in the middle of the night and we stupidly let him sleep with us. This started during a very rocky transition to the next class at daycare (which is a whole other venting post of its own), so we figured he wanted some comfort and this phase would pass. WRONG.

Once we converted the crib, he now needs someone to stay in the room with him while he falls asleep, otherwise he immediately starts crying when someone leaves the room and he runs out after them. I know they say you're supposed to repeatedly put them back in with no engagement, while remaining neutral. When I did that, he became hysterical and ended up screaming bloody murder and crawling on all fours to get away from me so I couldn't pick him up. I repeatedly put him back in so many times that I ended up drenched in sweat and it took him an hour to calm down. We had hoped that once we get his actual going to bed routine down that it would stop the night and now nap visits to our room, but things are still very much not changing.

I don't think he was mentally ready to leave his crib, but we felt we had no choice b/c he was getting out of the crib nightly. We don't want to do crib tents or lock him in his room. He has new, big boy sheets, a white noise machine, music, we keep the light on when he goes to bed, lots of stuffed animals, etc. He's not scared of the bed itself.

We also can temporarily deal with him in our bed, but fear the longer he's there, the more comfortable he's becoming. And the real problem is that if he sleeps with us, he then is woken up at 5am when we get up for work, no matter how quiet we are (we bring in his white noise machine into our room, I sneak out and shower in a different bathroom, etc). If he's in his own room, he'll sleep until at least 5.45, which is a fair amt more of sleep for the little guy.

Anyone BTDT and have advice?

 

[Puppmom]

I could have written this so I'm sending you hugs...and now I will wait until someone responds with advice because I certainly need it!

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Puppmom, commiserate with me! What's your story of woe?

 

[Puppmom]

Well, DS was a great sleeper early on then around 8 or 9 months old, all hell broke loose. He would go down easily but EVERY NIGHT ended up in our bed at some point…after several futile attempts at putting him back in his crib. We didn’t CIO at the time and maybe should have? Who knows. Anyway, about 6 months ago, he just started STTN in his crib out of nowhere (so he was in our bed here and there for almost a year!). I cannot tell you how happy I was to have my bed back. I HATED sleeping with him.

He would wake in the middle of the night here and there but we would let him cry and he would go back to sleep. Usually it wouldn’t last more than a few minutes and never really escalated into the “get me the hell out of here” cry. Life was bliss.

A little over a month ago, he started getting separation anxiety at naptime. We decided to let him CIO because it worked at night. Well, he would cry for the ENTIRE *nap* - I’m talking two hours. Then, when we would finally get him, he would pass out from exhaustion. He would sleep in our arms or on the couch next to us for the next two or three hours. This went on for two weeks. We broke down and bought him a little kiddie pull out sofa (our logic was that he sleeps on a cot at daycare) hoping that he would sleep in it. We laid out the couch and he was so excited! He slept on it pretty much straight away. The naps were short at first but, within a week, they were 2 or 3 hours. Yay! …then, the separation anxiety started at night. He would FREAK out when we put him in his crib. He would scream, “Mommy, Daddy, please. Where are you?”. He would scream so loud and long that he would become hoarse and gag. I know some parents can hang through this but I couldn’t. We would let him go for an hour and with no signs of slowing down, we would put him in our bed where he slept for the remainder of the night. Just after all of this started we went on vacation where we had to share a room with him and he slept with us all night every night. That was three weeks ago and although we’re able to get him to sleep on his own (on the little couch – FORGET about the crib!), he doesn’t last much more than two or three hours.

I’m pregnant and nauseas and tired and grumpy and I want to cry (seriously) when I hear him wake. I’m at a loss. We haven’t had the chance to get him a proper bed but I’m pretty sure we’re fooling ourselves if we think that’s going to fix our problems. I’m not even sure if he’s *ready* for a bed I don’t know what else to do.

So, you see, I need advice too.

ETA – the reason I *think* this is separation anxiety is the way he cries. He sounds scared and desperate…not frustrated or angry.

Oh and did I mention I'm pretty sure we created this monster by rocking him to sleep up until well...now? We actually don't rock him to sleep any more but we still stay until he's asleep.

 

[fieryred33143]

Sophia was much younger when she jumped out of the crib ad we converted (19 months) so keep that in mind.

We gated the door and left the door open in the beginning. With the gate she was able to get up from the bed but couldn't get out of the room. When she got up from the bed we would tell her she has to go back to bed and then ignore her. For the first few days she would stay sitting by the gate just waiting for someone to go to her but we never did. Sometimes she would fall asleep on the floor or she would walk back to the bed. The gate helped a lot. And leaving the door open helped too because she could hear us and didn't feel so alone. Once she stopped getting up from bed, we would close the door (leave it cracked) but left the gate up until we were comfortable that she was ok and wouldn't get up anymore.

Now at 3 she doesn't get up at all until someone gets her. Not even in the mornings.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Oh Puppmom, you poor thing! Actually our kids sound a lot alike. It is heartbreaking to hear them when they can verbalize, no?

You know, I wouldn't blame yourself for the rocking to sleep bit. My son was able to go to bed awake and could put himself to sleep and now we're in the same boat as you. And, for opposite's sake, my daughter was rocked to sleep for a long time and goes to bed like a champ (she's 4) all on her own. So who knows if rocking caused the sleep issues or not.

Fiery, we may have to try the gate thing again. DS can jump the gate, but I'm sure they make tall ones (maybe for dogs?). Did your daughter cry at the gate, or just sit there?

 

[fieryred33143]

Sometimes she would cry, other (and most) times she would just sit there. Her issue was feeling alone so the open door and hearing us out there helped.

As for the gate, even though she jumped out the crib and PNP, she never tried jumping over the gate. Not sure why. We had a flimsy one from Wal-Mart but I know they sell stronger and taller gates.

Hang in there. I swear the bed is like sleep training all over again :/

 

[Laila619]

Yikes, these stories are scaring me! I still have my son sleep in a Halo large sized sleep sack, which I think prevents him from being able to climb out. I'll keep him in a sack until he's 3 if I have to. I'm so worried that if/when he tries to climb out he'll hurt himself, because we have hard wood floors in the bedrooms.

 

[Tuckins1]

DH's cousin has twins, and when they were around this age, they wouldn't stay in their rooms either. His cousin tried this: http://www.mytotclock.com/home.php?osCsid=4e3ia9tbh791r783jrqse2bar5

It's worked wonders for them!

 

[aliceinwonderland]

Hi LS,

I feel for you! I can say from experience that allowing him to sleep in your bed is the WORST possible solution to this problem. With my son it was a tough love situation, we actually installed a small lock on the outside of the door and then unlocked it once he was asleep. After a few weeks we just took the lock off and the problem was solved. Naturally he was a mess for a while but it sorted out the problem. I too did the drenched in sweat scream bloody murder scenario at points. This will eventually pass. I think the gate at the door idea is even better than locking the door. Your child will likely cry and carry on and that may go on for quite a few nights but the pay-off will be worth it in the end.

Let us know what you decide and good luck!
Alice

 

[ponder]

We started to have problems at nap and bedtime with our almost 3 year old right after bringing home the new baby. The gate has worked wonders. Wish we would have done it sooner.

 

[Puppmom]

Gosh, I wish the gate worked for us like it does for others. The gate keeps DS *in* but he SCREAMS - like gagging, turning hoarse, sweating, delirious screaming. Man, we have a tough cookie on our hands.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Gosh, I wish the gate worked for us like it does for others. The gate keeps DS *in* but he SCREAMS - like gagging, turning hoarse, sweating, delirious screaming. Man, we have a tough cookie on our hands.

Puppmom, same here! I guess we both really are in the same boat! Is it still status quo for you re: the sleeping situation?

 

[lliang_chi]

Pupp and Logan, I have no toddler/kiddos, so take my advice however you want. Can you make it a new "game" to camp out in your son's room? Have him sleep in his bed, and you or your DH can hang out on an air mattress next to him. As he gets used to sleeping in his bed, you guys can slowly move out his room? Maybe make a game of it with flashlights and popcorn etc?

Do you guys think your kids feel a need to have you close to them?

 

[Puppmom]

LS, same old same old here. DS falls asleep in his bed at 7:30 or 8 and is up anywhere between 10:30 and midnight and with us for the rest of the night. We need to do something though because, if all goes well, I'm moving in the BIG pregnancy pillow in a few months and then there isn't room for all of us!

LC, funny you mention that because one of the things I read recently said to sleep with your child ALL NIGHT in there room (not in the bed with them just there) until they adapt to being in their room then work on being in their room alone. I tend to think DS's issue is separation anxiety but we've certainly created a habit now.

 

[lliang_chi]

Pupp, oh my, I temporarily forgot that you're expecting! I'd suggest you have your DH sleep on the floor with N during the "camp in." You need your sleep. Not sayin' your DH doesn't but dude, I went camping @ 18 wks preggo and lemme just say, sleeping on those air rolls while preggo, so not fun.... Anyway, I hope doing a "camp in" will help if you're willing to give that a try.

~LC

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Hunter was the same. We tried a lot of things. In the end we put a baby gate on his door. At least it kept him from running around the halls. Then when he was up we went up -- no talking, no interaction, nothing -- picked him up and put him in his bed. Repeat 5000 times per night. I read a blog where the parent called it the "nightly wack a mole". Eventually, we started sitting in his room on a chair by the door until he was asleep. He liked having us there. We are still on that "solution".

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Dreamer, did Hunter scream and cry when he was gated? What about when you had to go back in to put him back to bed? How did that go down?

My husband is also laying down on our son's floor until he falls asleep but it's been taking longer and longer for that little booger to actually go to sleep- about an hour and a half.

 

[lliang_chi]

Logan, HOLY COW, and hour and a half!!! First I thought it was a typo and it was a half an hour, but yowza! I have no advice but sending your and Pupp's family lots of dust to get your kiddos in bed.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Lliang, yes 90 mins!!! Before when he was still in a crib, we could put him in and he'd chat by himself for 15-20 mins, sometimes less or more, and then just go to sleep.

Now, my husband (and ONLY my husband) has to lay down next to him. He can't sit up; has to lay down. DH will try to sneak out on all fours and DS will pop open his eyes and sit up, ordering DH to "lay back down." I'm starting to really become resentful b/c after we put the kids to bed, DH and I both cleaned up from dinner, did housework, and got lunches ready for the next day. Now all that falls on me, and while I know it's not DH's fault that he's not down there, what was once an egalitatarian divide of housework is all on me.

Thank goodness my daughter has become an excellent sleeper who goes right into bed after books and stays there. If I had two bad sleepers, I think I'd go off the deep end.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Gosh, I wish the gate worked for us like it does for others. The gate keeps DS *in* but he SCREAMS - like gagging, turning hoarse, sweating, delirious screaming. Man, we have a tough cookie on our hands.

Puppmom, same here! I guess we both really are in the same boat! Is it still status quo for you re: the sleeping situation?

Our son did that too. For us the gate was not to keep him in bed but to decrease the reward of getting out. The further he got from the bed the greater the reward. The gate meant at most he would get about 3 feet then we could scoop him up and put him back in bed. Yes, there was a 6 month period where bedtime was insane and took a good while. We found that after picking him up and putting him back in bed about 20 times, then when he started crying we had won Then he would calm and go to sleep.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Lliang, yes 90 mins!!! Before when he was still in a crib, we could put him in and he'd chat by himself for 15-20 mins, sometimes less or more, and then just go to sleep.

Now, my husband (and ONLY my husband) has to lay down next to him. He can't sit up; has to lay down. DH will try to sneak out on all fours and DS will pop open his eyes and sit up, ordering DH to "lay back down." I'm starting to really become resentful b/c after we put the kids to bed, DH and I both cleaned up from dinner, did housework, and got lunches ready for the next day. Now all that falls on me, and while I know it's not DH's fault that he's not down there, what was once an egalitatarian divide of housework is all on me.

Thank goodness my daughter has become an excellent sleeper who goes right into bed after books and stays there. If I had two bad sleepers, I think I'd go off the deep end.

One thing to think about is whether he is tired at bedtime. If it is taking that long it might be time to change up his naps or his bedtime. What time does he nap and what time are you putting him down? We found with Hunter that we had to ask his daycare to wake him from his nap earlier so he would go to bed at a decent time. We also found from 2 to now his bedtime has gotten progressively a little bit later. It presently takes Hunter about 30 mins to fall asleep and right now one of us, ususally DH, sits on the side of his bed. Tonight actually we are instituting the next phase -- we are putting a chair in the room near the bed and DH will sit on that. We will move the chair out of the room progressiveley.

Yes they can be little tyrants. But you don't have to do what they say If they are being crazy or bossy or, for example, he tries to protest us sitting on the chain not the bed, we will say, "I either sit here or I leave, its your choice." He might cry or protest this choice but we don't speak or engage in argument or cajole, just repeat, "either here or not in the room" and stay sitting on the chair. He calms and gives in to the reality. We have a firm history or never giving in to his tantrums and crying though, so he doesn't protest too long.

I answered the gate thing above. Yes he screamed. We would pick him up and put him back in his bed. No talking, no interaction. Did I say NO TALKING? The rule is not to reward him being out of bed. We had to get really strict about nightime and him being in his bed. If he got up at night for a while DH let him in our bed because it is easier than getting up and taking him back ot his bed. He would protest and cry when we t ook him back but again, no talking, calm cool and collected, pick him up and take him back to his bed, place him in the bed. We would sit with him until he settled, but if he was being a banana we would just get up to leave and he got the picture -- quiet and calm in the bed we sit with him, acting up we go. I do NOT think the nighttime stuff is separation anxiety because we are all together in the same house and two rooms away is not separation in my book. So we were not too concerned about that. If he seemed scared of a dream we of course offered comfort and assurance, hugs and back rubs. But no talking. The goal is to minimize the interaction and keep things calm because its night time. I am better at this than DH.

I won't lie, we had a period from 2 years 3 months until a little past 3 years where bedtime was no fun, lots of meltdowns and getting up at night, and it took so long for things to improve. We just stuck it out. The rules were no sleeping in our bed, and he had to go to sleep at bed time, no playing, or interacting with us, or games. Yes, it meant we spent 30 mins to an hour putting him back in his bed at night. Of course, this was when we had our second Now things are better. He even stays in bed in the morning until his sun comes up on his little clock (that took bribes -- for two weeks when he stayed in bed until his sun came up he got a present each morning, now he does it on his own). Bedtimes are calm and tantrum free, but DH sits in his room. That is the last thing we plan to "fix".

Our one year old is another story He sleeps through the night but bedtime can be hard. We are working on it.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I totally own that we caused this problem! Or at least, didn't correct it when we should've.

Just as some background, the getting out of the crib/bed problem started right when DS transitioned to the next daycare class. He is a sensitive kid and was very attached to his old teachers. The first week of the new class, the lead teacher quit b/c her husband's job was relocating. The 2nd week, they had a substitute. The 3rd week, they hired the new teacher, and then unbelievably, the 4th week, they fired the assistant teacher. So, with all this drama and change going on, we figured he was in need of some soothing/comforting and would revert back to his regular routine once daycare got sorted out (DD is like this- she might need to sleep on our floor once every few months, but she's right back to her old ways/bed routing the next day).

I do think he's tired, but not sure how to handle it. He has to be up by 5.45am the latest and has actually always been an early riser. It used to be 4.30am but now is about 5-5.30am EVERY SINGLE DAY Because he has to be up early, we've always done an early-ish bedtime for him-6.30 or 6.45pm. And that used to be fine! He naps at daycare 2 hours and his teachers tell me that they have to wake him up when nap time is over. At home, he usually naps for 2-3 hours. I personally am of the sleep begets sleep school of thought and have been known to do a 5pm bedtime when he's been overtired (when he was younger), but we've experimented with putting him down later to see if he's not tired enough. No go. Still same issues and he still wakes up at 5.30 or 6. He's always been on the lower side of average amt of sleep needed. But he's yawning and rubbing his eyes in the AM, which makes me think he's simply not getting enough sleep.

I own the "lay back down" monster we've created too! We've been too scared- it's so much easier if he just goes to sleep, rather than fight him, which keeps him up even later. But I see that we need to batten down the hatch and just do it.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Hunter is an early riser too, we got something called a GroClock around the age your son is. Something to try?

I agree that sleep begets sleep. But at a certain point they need less, and I am less rigid than I used to be about what should or should not be when it comes to sleep. There is so much variation and rules rarely seem to help. Hunter napped 2-3 hours at that age as well and used to go to sleep at 6pm like your son. Starting at about 2 though his bedtimes started getting later. Now he goes to bed at 8-8:30 and seems rested, and we ask Daycare to wake him at 2pm from nap (so 1.5 hours nap). At age 2 I think he was waking at 6am, napping from 12:30 until 2:30 and going to sleep around 7pm. We found something similar with our 13 months old. He was napping until 4:30 with his second nap and bedtimes became a nightmare, taking 1.5 hours. We transitioned him to one nap per day so he is up by around 3pm and he goes to bed at 7pm now. I believe the overall amount of sleep a kid gets stays pretty constant, and at some point, naps start to "steal" from night time sleep.

Is he fooling around while your husband is in the room on the floor? Or is he laying there and just not falling asleep? If he is quiet and laying there and just not sleeping maybe a three pronged approach: wake from naps after max of 2 hours, bedtime a weensy bit later, and get a GroClock and start teaching him to stay in bed in the am (I have a thread on this somewhere if you look in my archive, we had this issue when Hunter was a little over 2).

 

[Puppmom]

Thanks for the details, Dreamer. That helps.

Ladies, set me straight. N is just two - as in he turned two last week. You think he's too young for some of the *negotiation* tactics you guys have used? I ask because he doesn't really understand delayed gratification BUT we have (VERY RECENTLY) been able to entertain basic negotiations. For example, he threw a FIT over dinner last night. We let him fit and ignored him but, when he calmed down a bit, he asked to go outside. We said he could if he ate a few bites of dinner. He *gagged* down a few bites then asked again to go outside. We obliged and high fived over the dinner eating. Fit over - happy as a clam.

I just wonder if he's mature enough for some of these techniques. I kind of feel like we're at an in between phase - too old to just CIO and ignore but too young to understand other alternatives. Am I just being a wimp? I realize that whatever we do could mean lots of sleepless nights and crying. I just want it to work.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Thanks for the details, Dreamer. That helps.

Ladies, set me straight. N is just two - as in he turned two last week. You think he's too young for some of the *negotiation* tactics you guys have used? I ask because he doesn't really understand delayed gratification BUT we have (VERY RECENTLY) been able to entertain basic negotiations. For example, he threw a FIT over dinner last night. We let him fit and ignored him but, when he calmed down a bit, he asked to go outside. We said he could if he ate a few bites of dinner. He *gagged* down a few bites then asked again to go outside. We obliged and high fived over the dinner eating. Fit over - happy as a clam.

I just wonder if he's mature enough for some of these techniques. I kind of feel like we're at an in between phase - too old to just CIO and ignore but too young to understand other alternatives. Am I just being a wimp? I realize that whatever we do could mean lots of sleepless nights and crying. I just want it to work.

Pupp, we just had the exact same conversation in our house last night! We've successfully negotiated with DS over treats and he gets it. But we tried to negotiate with him over bedtime and it didn't work. Not sure if it was too big of a mental leap for him to make or if it wasn't a big enough incentive. My 4 year old gets to watch a couple of short programs while I iron/get ready for bed. We told DS he could watch one with her if he went to bed like a big boy all by himself. After, DD showed him how she got into bed, etc., but he wasn't having any of it. I don't know if we did that all wrong or what, but it didn't work.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Hunter is an early riser too, we got something called a GroClock around the age your son is. Something to try?

I agree that sleep begets sleep. But at a certain point they need less, and I am less rigid than I used to be about what should or should not be when it comes to sleep. There is so much variation and rules rarely seem to help. Hunter napped 2-3 hours at that age as well and used to go to sleep at 6pm like your son. Starting at about 2 though his bedtimes started getting later. Now he goes to bed at 8-8:30 and seems rested, and we ask Daycare to wake him at 2pm from nap (so 1.5 hours nap). At age 2 I think he was waking at 6am, napping from 12:30 until 2:30 and going to sleep around 7pm. We found something similar with our 13 months old. He was napping until 4:30 with his second nap and bedtimes became a nightmare, taking 1.5 hours. We transitioned him to one nap per day so he is up by around 3pm and he goes to bed at 7pm now. I believe the overall amount of sleep a kid gets stays pretty constant, and at some point, naps start to "steal" from night time sleep.

Is he fooling around while your husband is in the room on the floor? Or is he laying there and just not falling asleep? If he is quiet and laying there and just not sleeping maybe a three pronged approach: wake from naps after max of 2 hours, bedtime a weensy bit later, and get a GroClock and start teaching him to stay in bed in the am (I have a thread on this somewhere if you look in my archive, we had this issue when Hunter was a little over 2).

Yes, I wonder too if he's getting too much sleep, though it doesn't seem like he is. He sleep 2 hours during nap and then now from 8 or 8.15 to 5 or 5.15, so around 9 hours. That's 11 hours total. Could that be just what he needs? I thought a 2 year old needed more. It may be that he's not ready to go to sleep only 5 hours after waking up from his nap, but we absolutely can't adjust his wake up time any later, as he needs to be at daycare at 6.30.

He's fooling around in bed- turning, twisting, standing on his head. Stuff he does when he's getting ready to wake up too.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Pupp and Logan: I think at 2 years old a child will have a very basic understanding of cause and effect. And that means a very basic understanding of reward and punishment (from a learning perspective). But for the connection to be made between the cause and the effect, the sequence of events must be very very close in time.

For example, Pupp in yourdinner scenerio, the communication was "eat two bites then you can go outside". A clear cause (eat) and desired effect (outside) that rewards the good behavior. That is something very effective with kids aroubd 2-3 years. Another successful way of using their cause and effect would be when they want to go downstairs in the morning, and you say, "First get dressed, THEN downstairs!" Or, using negative reinforcement, "If you hit your brother with the bat again, you lost it." Cause and effect. All of those work great.

But, the problem with what you described Logan, was that the reward came before the thing you wanted him to do If I understood your story right, he wanted to watch the TV and you said, "You can watch the program if you go to bed well [at some later time]". He agreed of course, but likely didn't understand that it was a contractual obligation

Bedtime is a really hard time to use rewards. I think when they are closer to 3 years old you can use a reward the next morning, like we did with Hunter. So at bedtime we made a big deal of how staying in bed would result in a reward the next morning, and it worked a charm. But at 2 I am not sure they are old enough to get it.

I think the key at bedtime is to a) remove ANY and all rewards they get from staying awake. Usually that means interaction with you, even negative. And b) make it clear the only behavior option is bedtime. The book "1-2-3 Magic" has a section on this stuff. I have only skimmed it, but the book is based on solid psychological theory. I like it a lot, what I read.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Thanks for your response, Dreamer. You're right- I hadn't thought about the TV reward thing in that way. We did do it backwards! When we were discussing it (which we spent a long time doing, b/c DS doesn't watch TV normally but we were so desperate we were willing to try anything!), we'd doubted if it would work b/c we didn't think he would truly understand the devil's deal he was making, but didn't think about it like you just framed it. That kind of negotiating does work with our 4 year old, but clearly not yet with a 2 year old.

I asked my husband what DS does when he's laying on the floor. Apparently, they have absolutely no interaction whatsoever. DS lies in his bed, plays with his hands, his stuffed animals, his blanket, his bed, handstands, etc. He never tries to talk to DH, unless telling him to lay back down. So he clearly has the tools to get himself to sleep, but seems to need the mental comfort/knowledge that he's not alone. Someone suggested getting one of those video monitors that has two-way talking. They watch and when their son gets out of bed, they talk to him through it and tell him to get back into bed. It took them only 2 nights of doing this. I wonder if we had that, DS would feel less alone?

And in good news, we have 1-2-3 Magic! I initially read it for my daughter and didn't have to get too far in reading it before the technique worked on her. I never made it to the sleep section, so I'll definitely look at that today.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Thanks for your response, Dreamer. You're right- I hadn't thought about the TV reward thing in that way. We did do it backwards! When we were discussing it (which we spent a long time doing, b/c DS doesn't watch TV normally but we were so desperate we were willing to try anything!), we'd doubted if it would work b/c we didn't think he would truly understand the devil's deal he was making, but didn't think about it like you just framed it. That kind of negotiating does work with our 4 year old, but clearly not yet with a 2 year old.

I asked my husband what DS does when he's laying on the floor. Apparently, they have absolutely no interaction whatsoever. DS lies in his bed, plays with his hands, his stuffed animals, his blanket, his bed, handstands, etc. He never tries to talk to DH, unless telling him to lay back down. So he clearly has the tools to get himself to sleep, but seems to need the mental comfort/knowledge that he's not alone. Someone suggested getting one of those video monitors that has two-way talking. They watch and when their son gets out of bed, they talk to him through it and tell him to get back into bed. It took them only 2 nights of doing this. I wonder if we had that, DS would feel less alone?

And in good news, we have 1-2-3 Magic! I initially read it for my daughter and didn't have to get too far in reading it before the technique worked on her. I never made it to the sleep section, so I'll definitely look at that today.