Something to Show You

[minousbijoux]

I'll explain in a minute. In the meantime, enjoy the photos.

 

[minousbijoux]

Here are some more and the punchline.

 

[minousbijoux]

Now the explanation. A few weeks ago, someone came here asking us our opinion on a sapphire they were buying from this ebay seller. From the sellers photos, it looked to be an exquisite stone. Big, heat only, saturated color of medium tone. They bought it for a steal of a price. Some of us expressed concern that the sapphire might be darker IRL, as the stone looked that way on the lab report that the vendor showed. While the buyer is apparently happy with the stone, they did not show any photos of the gem in hand, so we could not verify the accuracy of the vendor's photos. About six months before I had bought a small mandarin spessartite from this vendor and found the saturated color in their photos to be what I saw in hand, so I decided to test out a blue stone. The rest of the story is what you see. Big disappointment.

 

[iLander]

Ummm . . .

I must be some kind of dufus, because I like it . . .

I'm thinking it's pretty . . .

 

[minousbijoux]

Ummm . . .

I must be some kind of dufus, because I like it . . .

I'm thinking it's pretty . . .

Aww, honey, there is nothing wrong with liking it! But you can probably understand how I was a bit taken aback when it arrived. The lightest I ever saw it was the outside (on the faded wood) shot. The third photo in the first batch (all grey laptop surface background), my favorite color it showed, was taken with a flashlight aimed right on it. Otherwise, all other shots were what I saw and they are taken in different lighting situations - at night, afternoon sunlight, diffused natural light, halogen, etc. I was surprised at how different it was, and disappointed that it did not adapt well to different lighting, but closed up in all but direct, bright light.

 

[tara3056]

Are you at liberty to mention the vendor's ebay store/name?

I've had similar experiences, mostly with blue stones, even when I've had okay luck buying other colored stones from the same vendors. I'm starting to think I won't ever own a pretty blue stone. They're too difficult to purchase well!

 

[minousbijoux]

Its Wimongems. The weird thing is that when I said I was going to return it, they immediately cancelled the transaction - I mean like the minute they got my email, they cancelled. I understand they did not want to risk any negative feedback, but still, I've never had it cancelled that quickly. Typically, in my experience, the seller waits until the stone has been received back by them and then cancels it. The paranoid part of me wonders whether this doesn't happen often with this seller. I've sent the gem back, but what if the gem doesn't arrive? They have my money and there's no transaction to dispute, right? Anyway, I'm just a bit nervous...

As I said before, I know others have successfully bought from this seller, and although it was small (under 1.5 carats), the mandarin I bought a while ago was dead on for hue and saturation, so this was a disappointment. I do think blue is a bugger to represent accurately.

 

[Kelly12]

What is it? It looks very shiny.

 

[Enerchi]

What is it? It looks very shiny.

READ the caption - the answer is there

 

[tara3056]

MB, I just had a similar experience with Tan. I am sending back a tsavorite and he already requested that I agree to cancel the transaction. I didn't think much of it, since I know he's reputable, but when I went to do so, I saw a note from ebay saying that I should not agree to cancel it until I've received my refund. So, at the risk of upsetting him, I declined the cancellation.

I'm pretty sure I'll get my money back, but of course, one always worries when shipping to Thailand. I've purchased from him a handful of times, but have always kept everything else. This is my first return, so I'm not sure if that's how he usually does things. He said he wanted to recover the final value fee that he as a seller had to pay... my thinking is, well, he's holding on to my $280 for a couple more weeks until he receives the stone back, so he ought to be able to "float" the final value fee for that long as well!

 

[LD]

You know what, it looks like a colour changer that changes just a bit tooooooooooo much. I love the lighter colourway but when it goes over to the dark side it's a bit too evil for me!

This is the problem with some spinels - do you remember my red one? Stupendously red indoors and breath-taking. Go outside and the little monkey turns black with hints of red. Naughty spinel.

You were right to return it hun - how weird that they cancelled the transaction (that's not actually in the spirit of Ebay is it?). I'm guessing they probably have a few returns and this is their way of avoiding negs.

 

[minousbijoux]

LD - thanks. Even in the best of lighting situations (a torchlight shining on it full blast, lol ), I still don't think the photos are truly representative, but show amped up saturation for sure.

Tara - thanks for that suggestion. I didn't know what to do about their request for cancellation, so with your brilliant recommendation, I just went and cancelled the transaction. Phew, now I have some wiggle room! why didn't I think of that before?!!

ETA: Oops, meant to say declined their request for cancellation, not cancelled the transaction!

 

[chrono]

It looks WAY different from the vendor's picture no matter how hard you tried. Even at its best with the strong light, it was less saturated and not as blue. In other conditions, there is a lot of green and the rest, super dark and gray. The cancellation is odd too.

 

[minousbijoux]

It looks WAY different from the vendor's picture no matter how hard you tried. Even at its best with the strong light, it was less saturated and not as blue. In other conditions, there is a lot of green and the rest, super dark and gray. The cancellation is odd too.

This, exactly! I just wanted to show what a blue stone looks like from this vendor. The spinel was almost three carats, so had it looked more like the photo, it would've been a winner of a stone.

 

[erinl]

That "cancel transaction" thing on ebay is a pain. I have bought a stone from a vendor on ebay and returned it. He also wanted to cancel the transaction right away-- they are supposed to ask you if you agree to cancel the transaction. I always ask if they can wait to cancel the transaction until they receive the stone, but they don't always listen. So if you ignore their cancel transaction request, it will cancel automatically in 7 days. If you decline to cancel transaction, the seller will not get the 10% or so ebay fee back, so they certainly won't be happy with that.
I think the seller is concerned it will go over the 45 day limit on the entire transaction, but it is kind of dicey all the way around.

I just had this happen to me as a seller. I sent out an item, and about a month later it arrived back on my doorstep, with undeliverable on it. So I followed the ebay protocol and asked the buyer if they intended for it to be returned, and to please confirm so I could refund them. they didn't reply in 24 hours (or ever), so I refunded the money to paypal then opened a "cancel transaction" request. Still no reply from the buyer, but they decided to decline my cancel transaction request, which means I wouldn't get the seller fee back. I called ebay and they refunded me anyway, but what a hassle. And I never heard back from the buyer so I have no idea what his deal was?

 

[erinl]

P.S.-- I don't know if I was clear in my previous post-- the only way the vendor gets the 10% or so ebay fee back is to have the transaction canceled. It doesn't have anything to do with ratings/reviews. So if the stone is 600 dollars, ebay takes about 60 of that, for the vendor to make a profit of 540. When they refund you 600 upon return, they will only get 540 back since that is what ebay gave them in the first place. They need the transaction to be canceled for ebay to pay the remaining 60, as well as the percentage taken out of shipping too--when you ship something for ten dollars and the buyer pays ten dollars, you actually only get 88 percent or so.

Remember the days of 1 dollar items with 80 dollar shipping? I bought a cat tree years ago like that-- that was a sneaky way to decrease ebay fees. Ebay caught on to that and put a fee on shipping too to avoid that.

 

[minousbijoux]

Erini: you are exactly right! This is the response I just got back from the seller:

"you not accept a cancel transaction earlier Never mind just do nothing
But you denied cause me lost final value fee forever.
you dont need to do this paypal still protect you to have money back if you return it .
what you dont not benefit you but in the same time cause me losing money
the option allow me to send a cancel transaction if the buyer return OR RETURING"

Had they explained this to me ahead of time, I could've asked them to wait, but I did not understand why they were cancelling it and was worried I'd have no protection if they tried to say it was lost. There must be a way around this in the future? I certainly feel bad now that I know they're out of pocket $30+

 

[OTL]

I had the same experience when I bought those two demantoids from Jeff on ebay, I decided to return both of them, and Jeff also requested to cancel right away after I contacted him.I agreed to one of the transaction, and was feeling unsecure so I am leaving the other request as is. Back then I didn't know if you disagree, they will loose the final value fee, and can not request again. But I did notice the 7 days periods of automatically cancellation. So on the 7th day, my stones were still on the way back, I am out $$ for 2 stones, and with one already canceled, I am a little nervous and disagreed the last request, in the message I explained to Jeff and said I am happy to agree it after the stone is arrived, when you request again. Well, obviously that didn't happen, and Jeff was a little upset, I felt very sorry too. I returned quite a few times, never seen vendor cancel transaction right away, it is always after stone arrived and they refund your $$. But there is a first time to everything.

 

[erinl]

Minou--

If you are willing to make a call on the seller's behalf to ebay and say you didn't know what denying cancellation meant I am sure they will give the seller the money back. Its a pain though and up to you. The seller may only partially refund you, I don't know. It depends if they know you are on pricescope, seems like a lot of sellers know that there is a huge community of gem buyers and a bad review there is not good for business.

Ebay is very easy until there is a hiccup, then I am on the phone and there are very few solutions that work for me!

 

[erinl]

Its tough on those overseas registered mail purchases. The shipment for Asia to the US or elsewhere and then back with the 7 day return window can easily take more than 45 days. I guess after 45 days selers cannot recoup the ebay portion either. Not sure what the answer is.....

On the larger stones purchases vendors often send expedited, through a different shipper. That cuts down the time...

 

[minousbijoux]

LD - thanks. Even in the best of lighting situations (a torchlight shining on it full blast, lol ), I still don't think the photos are truly representative, but show amped up saturation for sure.

Tara - thanks for that suggestion. I didn't know what to do about their request for cancellation, so with your brilliant recommendation, I just went and cancelled the transaction. Phew, now I have some wiggle room! why didn't I think of that before?!!

ETA: Oops, meant to say declined their request for cancellation, not cancelled the transaction!

In case it wasn't clear, I was trying to say that IMO, the vendor's photo is WAY off, and it appears that the brightness and saturation have been amped up. I was shocked at how different it was in hand from what was indicated in their photo - and more shocked given the fact that the other stone (maybe even a spinel too) I purchased from them was just like their photo.

 

[chrono]

I feel badly for vendors who are out $X to eBay for returned stones. Does this translate to higher prices for goods to cover this hiccup or will this take a toll on the number of vendors who look at other avenue of sales outside of eBay? Yes, I'm headed off topic but hope Minou won't mind it....too badly, at least.

 

[SCrane]

I wouldn't know what to expect I suppose. I'm not very knowledgeable but that stone looks pretty in most all of the lighting..

 

[erinl]

I don't want to hijack the thread either... I imagine vendors who sell on ebay figure in the ebay fee when they price an item. I imagine the loss of the fee from returns doesn't happen that often--- especially if the vendor posts accurate pictures-- that is why unrealistic pictures are not a great selling tactic!!

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I am impressed by how much teal there is in the photo on the wood, and by the total absence of green in the vendor photo! Did the description mention how green it goes?

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Thanks for this post. I have been leery of buying color change blue spinels that go from "blue to grape soda" color. I really like the stone in two of the pics, but it appears to dark and grey in others. I think spinels make great models when the lighting is perfect. But some in real life....not so much.

 

[CYIW]

This really reminds me of something I saw here (and probably most people have seen it to):

http://wildfishgems.com/gemstones_on_photo#bluesap

The section is on blue sapphire (can I assume the same problem arises for Blue Spinel?), the photographer shows how difficult it is to capture the "true" colour.

I'm not sure what this means. Maybe it means the idea of a single shot of the "true colour" is not very helpful.

In practical terms, for me it means try to get a photo of the stone under halogens, in the sun, in the shade and a photo indoors with normal lighting. Maybe, they all represent the "true" colour (to the buyer).

 

[minousbijoux]

Thanks for this post. I have been leery of buying color change blue spinels that go from "blue to grape soda" color. I really like the stone in two of the pics, but it appears to dark and grey in others. I think spinels make great models when the lighting is perfect. But some in real life....not so much.

This is a great way to express it! Like they're models and have been airbrushed!

Please everyone: feel free to threadjack away. I said what I came to say and I too wonder what this all means in terms of sellers. I for one, believe it should be incentive to have the photos be as representative of reality as possible. In this case, I can tell the vendor is annoyed at me for returning the stone, and for costing them the fee. Another way to look at it, however, is that the buyer was disappointed that the stone did not resemble (much) the vendor's photo, and that in the future, the vendor could try to be more accurate - less amping up of saturation, etc. But I guess, to feel competitive, they feel a need to do this, as "everyone else does it."

 

[CYIW]

Sorry Minous, I thought I was vaguely contributing to the topic lol.

 

[chrono]

This is only my personal observation and if anyone feels differently, please speak up as I'd like to read about it. I find that sapphires hold their colour a LOT better than spinels, meaning you are going to find many more attractive blue sapphires (and easily too) than blue spinels. By this, I mean pure blue, without modifiers other than a hint of violet and with at least medium to strong saturation. However, the few blue spinels that I've seen that are of excellent quality look great under all lighting. This is a rarity though but proves that there are blue spinels out that that aren't just posers for just the right light. This applies to both changers / shifters of blue to grapey purple and the "regular" blues.

Sapphires and spinels, and just about all gems out there, will shift under various lighting, hence the advice to view it under as many different lighting conditions as possible. Wildfish is referring to that in the link shared by CYIW. Sometimes the effect is quite different and sometimes the effect isn't pretty.

Minou,
The "everybody" is doing it makes poor business sense. Why waste money and time in shipping, photoshopping, eBay fees and etc just so that someone will buy it only to return it a few days later? Isn't it better to take accurate pictures and have happy customers who will buy more later and also recommend them to their friends?