Questions about getting a gem certified

[Aerix]

I'm planning on getting my sapphire I posted about in another thread, certified. I've decided to go through AGL and will probably get either a Fast Track or Fast Track Premium gembrief. Here's a link to the fees on their site: http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/Rates.aspx

I was wondering, has anyone here had a gem certified by AGL before, and if so, do you know what return shipping provider they use and also if you need to include taxes in the check/money order (yes they accept money orders-I asked) you send to them? I noticed that they're pretty slow when replying to emails, hence me posting about it here.

I read the submission guidelines and fees page, but I'm still a little antsy about sending off my stone. Anyone want to share their experience? Also, the person I emailed told me that they charge $20 for return shipping.

 

[Kismet]

It's been a while but I believe they sent it back via the post office. A signature was required but I don't recall if it was registered mail or not. They did charge me $20 for return shipping for a piece with a 2k value. The return shipping charges may vary depending on the value of the gem.

I think what they're providing is mainly a service so there's no sales tax involved. I spoke to them on the phone as well and they were very nice so don't be shy about calling too.

 

[Jim Rentfrow]

I have used them in the past. They usually charge $65 plus $10-20 depending on value for return shipping for gem briefs. Turn around time is 2-4 weeks in my experiance.

 

[Aerix]

I have used them in the past. They usually charge $65 plus $10-20 depending on value for return shipping for gem briefs. Turn around time is 2-4 weeks in my experiance.

Is the $65 for the basic Fast Track or Fast Track Premium? The person I emailed told me that it would be $115 (for an unmounted stone) for a Fast Track Premium. (I'm assuming that that means the basic FT price of $55 listed on their site plus an extra fee of $60 for the FT Premium.)

 

[Aerix]

It's been a while but I believe they sent it back via the post office. A signature was required but I don't recall if it was registered mail or not. They did charge me $20 for return shipping for a piece with a 2k value. The return shipping charges may vary depending on the value of the gem.

I think what they're providing is mainly a service so there's no sales tax involved. I spoke to them on the phone as well and they were very nice so don't be shy about calling too.

Thanks! I'll probably give them a call tomorrow since it's after 5pm now and I'm not sure what their hours are. My gemstone is under $200 so hopefully return shipping will just be around $10.

 

[Arcadian]

Mine comes back via US postal, about 2-4 weeks. I do a fast track mostly but did do a prestige once. I wouldn't go that route again unless it was a super expensive stone. Like Jim said, 10-20 bucks for postage depending on what they tell you, so figure the cost of the fast track brief plus the cost of the postage.

My husband has usually had to sign for my stuff from them. I'm in Mass, so I've never paid sales tax from them. I don't know if that applies in NY or not.

-A

 

[Aerix]

Just decided to update everyone on this (and for reference if anyone else is looking to get their gemstone certified.)

They told me, no-tax does not need to be included in payment. The main difference between the regular Fast Track Gembrief and the Premium is locality type (and it's an extra $60 fee.) Lastly, they quoted me $15 for return shipping for my gem which is under $200 in value. I didn't bother asking about what type of return shipping they use since everyone who replied said USPS.

Arcadian- Thanks for the tip! I briefly considered a prestige report but didn't think it would be worth it for my stone. I'm mainly having it certified just to make sure it is indeed a genuine untreated and unheated sapphire and also in case I decide to have it appraised and insured in the future after it's been set.

I was told that the rough came from Umba (but also possibly Songea) Tanzania. Is it worth it to spend the $60 to have the locality type included in the Gembrief? I know that it won't pinpoint the province unless I pay for a prestige. I think I mostly want to have it checked to make sure it's an untreated sapphire and have it documented as proof.

 

[T L]

Just decided to update everyone on this (and for reference if anyone else is looking to get their gemstone certified.)

They told me, no-tax does not need to be included in payment. The main difference between the regular Fast Track Gembrief and the Premium is locality type (and it's an extra $60 fee.) Lastly, they quoted me $15 for return shipping for my gem which is under $200 in value. I didn't bother asking about what type of return shipping they use since everyone who replied said USPS.

Arcadian- Thanks for the tip! I briefly considered a prestige report but didn't think it would be worth it for my stone. I'm mainly having it certified just to make sure it is indeed a genuine untreated and unheated sapphire and also in case I decide to have it appraised and insured in the future after it's been set.

I was told that the rough came from Umba (but also possibly Songea) Tanzania. Is it worth it to spend the $60 to have the locality type included in the Gembrief? I know that it won't pinpoint the province unless I pay for a prestige. I think I mostly want to have it checked to make sure it's an untreated sapphire and have it documented as proof.

$60 will not included testing for beryllium, and as far as I'm concerned, that's the most important test on a sapphire with unknown heat treatment status. Last I checked with AGL, that was an additional $100.

 

[Aerix]

Just decided to update everyone on this (and for reference if anyone else is looking to get their gemstone certified.)

They told me, no-tax does not need to be included in payment. The main difference between the regular Fast Track Gembrief and the Premium is locality type (and it's an extra $60 fee.) Lastly, they quoted me $15 for return shipping for my gem which is under $200 in value. I didn't bother asking about what type of return shipping they use since everyone who replied said USPS.

Arcadian- Thanks for the tip! I briefly considered a prestige report but didn't think it would be worth it for my stone. I'm mainly having it certified just to make sure it is indeed a genuine untreated and unheated sapphire and also in case I decide to have it appraised and insured in the future after it's been set.

I was told that the rough came from Umba (but also possibly Songea) Tanzania. Is it worth it to spend the $60 to have the locality type included in the Gembrief? I know that it won't pinpoint the province unless I pay for a prestige. I think I mostly want to have it checked to make sure it's an untreated sapphire and have it documented as proof.

$60 will not included testing for beryllium, and as far as I'm concerned, that's the most important test on a sapphire with unknown heat treatment status. Last I checked with AGL, that was an additional $100.

What treatments DO they test for with a Gembrief? Just heat and glass-filling or oiling for certain stones?

 

[T L]

Just decided to update everyone on this (and for reference if anyone else is looking to get their gemstone certified.)

They told me, no-tax does not need to be included in payment. The main difference between the regular Fast Track Gembrief and the Premium is locality type (and it's an extra $60 fee.) Lastly, they quoted me $15 for return shipping for my gem which is under $200 in value. I didn't bother asking about what type of return shipping they use since everyone who replied said USPS.

Arcadian- Thanks for the tip! I briefly considered a prestige report but didn't think it would be worth it for my stone. I'm mainly having it certified just to make sure it is indeed a genuine untreated and unheated sapphire and also in case I decide to have it appraised and insured in the future after it's been set.

I was told that the rough came from Umba (but also possibly Songea) Tanzania. Is it worth it to spend the $60 to have the locality type included in the Gembrief? I know that it won't pinpoint the province unless I pay for a prestige. I think I mostly want to have it checked to make sure it's an untreated sapphire and have it documented as proof.

$60 will not included testing for beryllium, and as far as I'm concerned, that's the most important test on a sapphire with unknown heat treatment status. Last I checked with AGL, that was an additional $100.

What treatments DO they test for with a Gembrief? Just heat and glass-filling or oiling for certain stones?

They told me just "additional testing" and you have to write them and be specific. I am not aware if you can do be testing with just the gem brief, but from my understanding you could. I know they used to allow be-testing with the gem brief, but for some reason, and I don't remember where, I heard that changed, and you can only have be-testing with the prestige level reports. If you ask, can you get back to us, as I have a sapphire too that I would like to get tested, and I want to make sure you can do the be-testing with the gem brief. You do have to write to them and be specific however.

I learned my lesson the hard way, and this is why I only stick to corundum that already has a reputable lab memo or report indicating "no heat." It's too expensive to get the gem tested otherwise, especially if you paid very little for it.

ETA: I forgot to mention that if they find no indication of heat treatment, all you have to pay is the $60 for the gem brief, but if they find heat treatment, well, you have to pay for additional testing.

 

[Aerix]

Just decided to update everyone on this (and for reference if anyone else is looking to get their gemstone certified.)

They told me, no-tax does not need to be included in payment. The main difference between the regular Fast Track Gembrief and the Premium is locality type (and it's an extra $60 fee.) Lastly, they quoted me $15 for return shipping for my gem which is under $200 in value. I didn't bother asking about what type of return shipping they use since everyone who replied said USPS.

Arcadian- Thanks for the tip! I briefly considered a prestige report but didn't think it would be worth it for my stone. I'm mainly having it certified just to make sure it is indeed a genuine untreated and unheated sapphire and also in case I decide to have it appraised and insured in the future after it's been set.

I was told that the rough came from Umba (but also possibly Songea) Tanzania. Is it worth it to spend the $60 to have the locality type included in the Gembrief? I know that it won't pinpoint the province unless I pay for a prestige. I think I mostly want to have it checked to make sure it's an untreated sapphire and have it documented as proof.

$60 will not included testing for beryllium, and as far as I'm concerned, that's the most important test on a sapphire with unknown heat treatment status. Last I checked with AGL, that was an additional $100.

What treatments DO they test for with a Gembrief? Just heat and glass-filling or oiling for certain stones?

They told me just "additional testing" and you have to write them and be specific. I am not aware if you can do be testing with just the gem brief, but from my understanding you could. I know they used to allow be-testing with the gem brief, but for some reason, and I don't remember where, I heard that changed, and you can only have be-testing with the prestige level reports. If you ask, can you get back to us, as I have a sapphire too that I would like to get tested, and I want to make sure you can do the be-testing with the gem brief. You do have to write to them and be specific however.

I learned my lesson the hard way, and this is why I only stick to corundum that already has a reputable lab memo or report indicating "no heat." It's too expensive to get the gem tested otherwise, especially if you paid very little for it.

ETA: I forgot to mention that if they find no indication of heat treatment, all you have to pay is the $60 for the gem brief, but if they find heat treatment, well, you have to pay for additional testing.

I asked and got a sort of confused answer... They test for 'enhancement' which is pretty much heat (then the person I spoke to said that general kind of stuff...) I asked about beryllium testing and she said that if it has been heated, then that's when they send it off for further analysis.

 

[T L]

I asked and got a sort of confused answer... They test for 'enhancement' which is pretty much heat (then the person I spoke to said that general kind of stuff...) I asked about beryllium testing and she said that if it has been heated, then that's when they send it off for further analysis.

The same answer I got, but it would cost $100 more for further testing.

 

[Pandora II]

Personally I don't bother with lab reports unless the stone is over $2k - it's just not worth the expense in my mind.

Plus, with some of the tests for Be, they are only 70% accurate anyway. There are 3 main tests, all of which require expensive equipment and one piece of equipment is stratospherically expensive (to my knowledge there is only one machine in the whole of the UK) and so you'd ideally want more than one type of test which just gets more and more expensive.

That said, if I am getting a report then AGL is my lab of choice.

 

[T L]

Personally I don't bother with lab reports unless the stone is over $2k - it's just not worth the expense in my mind.

Plus, with some of the tests for Be, they are only 70% accurate anyway. There are 3 main tests, all of which require expensive equipment and one piece of equipment is stratospherically expensive (to my knowledge there is only one machine in the whole of the UK) and so you'd ideally want more than one type of test which just gets more and more expensive.

That said, if I am getting a report then AGL is my lab of choice.

So basically, stay away from all heated sapphire, or sapphire that is inconclusively heated.

Ugh!!

Thanks for the info Pandora.

 

[Aerix]

I feel depressed... Maybe I should just resell my sapphire if I can't know for sure if it's been treated or not...

 

[T L]

I feel depressed... Maybe I should just resell my sapphire if I can't know for sure if it's been treated or not...

Well, if it's not heated, that can be determined easily and through basic lab equipment, but if it's deemed heated, that's where you're stuck. Sorry, didn't mean to ruin the sapphire for you, but we all live and learn from the ever increasing and more difficult to detect treatments out there. That's why I now stick with spinels with natural inclusions.

 

[Aerix]

I feel depressed... Maybe I should just resell my sapphire if I can't know for sure if it's been treated or not...

Well, if it's not heated, that can be determined easily and through basic lab equipment, but if it's deemed heated, that's where you're stuck.

Hmm... I guess I'll think about it some more for now. I'm on the fence right if I should still send it to AGL or not. One thing I will mention (that's not really indicative of anything) it has some inclusions I can see if I look very closely. Just wanted to mention that.

 

[T L]

I feel depressed... Maybe I should just resell my sapphire if I can't know for sure if it's been treated or not...

Well, if it's not heated, that can be determined easily and through basic lab equipment, but if it's deemed heated, that's where you're stuck.

Hmm... I guess I'll think about it some more for now. I'm on the fence right if I should still send it to AGL or not. One thing I will mention (that's not really indicative of anything) it has some inclusions I can see if I look very closely. Just wanted to mention that.

Diffused sapphire has inclusions too. Typically if the stone has a lot of silk and some very intact rutile needles, they deem it unheated, but even heated stones can have silk and rutile. It's a lottery, you can send it to AGL and if it comes up unheated, you're in luck. If it comes out heated, well, and you're out $$$ on the report.

 

[Aerix]

I feel depressed... Maybe I should just resell my sapphire if I can't know for sure if it's been treated or not...

Well, if it's not heated, that can be determined easily and through basic lab equipment, but if it's deemed heated, that's where you're stuck.

Hmm... I guess I'll think about it some more for now. I'm on the fence right if I should still send it to AGL or not. One thing I will mention (that's not really indicative of anything) it has some inclusions I can see if I look very closely. Just wanted to mention that.

Diffused sapphire has inclusions too. Typically if the stone has a lot of silk and some very intact rutile needles, they deem it unheated, but even heated stones can have silk and rutile. It's a lottery, you can send it to AGL and if it comes up unheated, you're in luck. If it comes out heated, well, and you're out $$$ on the report.

Thanks for letting me know. I read about that a little while ago. The odd thing is that the inclusions look like tiny crystals (or they could be bubbles too or broken crystals-it's hard to see since I don't have a scope.) I guess I may as well send it to AGL, just to see what they find. Also-don't feel bad for telling me all this! Even if the report came out as heated I would've found out anyways. But I'll send it to AGL anyways since who knows if it is untreated or not.

 

[T L]

Good luck, keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you that it's untreated/unheated. It's such a pretty stone too!

Keep us posted.

 

[T L]

Personally I don't bother with lab reports unless the stone is over $2k - it's just not worth the expense in my mind.

Plus, with some of the tests for Be, they are only 70% accurate anyway. There are 3 main tests, all of which require expensive equipment and one piece of equipment is stratospherically expensive (to my knowledge there is only one machine in the whole of the UK) and so you'd ideally want more than one type of test which just gets more and more expensive.

That said, if I am getting a report then AGL is my lab of choice.

Pandora,
I recently saw a sapphire gem brief from the AGL that states,
"Heat only and no additional enhancement," but you're stating this only has a 70% chance of being correct? Right?

The sapphire in question was orangey-pink, a commonly diffused color, so I was a bit concerned.

 

[Aerix]

Good luck, keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you that it's untreated/unheated. It's such a pretty stone too!

Keep us posted.

Thanks! It is really a pretty stone. I'm going to be mailing it to them on Friday. (I've listed it on another site for now but if no one's interested, I'll be mailing it to AGL as scheduled on Friday.)

 

[T L]

Good luck, keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you that it's untreated/unheated. It's such a pretty stone too!

Keep us posted.

Thanks! It is really a pretty stone. I'm going to be mailing it to them on Friday. (I've listed it on another site for now but if no one's interested, I'll be mailing it to AGL as scheduled on Friday.)

If it turns out unheated, it's worth a lot more than you paid for it, so I would hold off from listing it. Again, it's a lottery, but I would be sad if I gave away a stone that was potentially worth a lot more. It's around 3 carats, right? So, I think if unheated, it is worth more, and would make for a beautiful piece of jewelry. If you do get the AGL and it's deemed unheated, you can also sell it for more if you decide to. The AGL gives the stone a lot of value if it's deemed unheated/untreated.

Good luck again, and I really really hope it's not heated.

 

[Aerix]

Good luck, keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you that it's untreated/unheated. It's such a pretty stone too!

Keep us posted.

Thanks! It is really a pretty stone. I'm going to be mailing it to them on Friday. (I've listed it on another site for now but if no one's interested, I'll be mailing it to AGL as scheduled on Friday.)

If it turns out unheated, it's worth a lot more than you paid for it, so I would hold off from listing it. Again, it's a lottery, but I would be sad if I gave away a stone that was potentially worth a lot more. It's around 3 carats, right? So, I think if unheated, it is worth more, and would make for a beautiful piece of jewelry. If you do get the AGL and it's deemed unheated, you can also sell it for more if you decide to. The AGL gives the stone a lot of value if it's deemed unheated/untreated.

Good luck again, and I really really hope it's not heated.

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind. That was one of the reasons I bought it in the first place-it seemed like a really good deal and it's expertly cut too. How much would you say it's worth if it is heated? (I know some heated sapphires can still be worth a bit too if they're a good color.)

 

[T L]

Good luck, keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you that it's untreated/unheated. It's such a pretty stone too!

Keep us posted.

Thanks! It is really a pretty stone. I'm going to be mailing it to them on Friday. (I've listed it on another site for now but if no one's interested, I'll be mailing it to AGL as scheduled on Friday.)

If it turns out unheated, it's worth a lot more than you paid for it, so I would hold off from listing it. Again, it's a lottery, but I would be sad if I gave away a stone that was potentially worth a lot more. It's around 3 carats, right? So, I think if unheated, it is worth more, and would make for a beautiful piece of jewelry. If you do get the AGL and it's deemed unheated, you can also sell it for more if you decide to. The AGL gives the stone a lot of value if it's deemed unheated/untreated.

Good luck again, and I really really hope it's not heated.

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind. That was one of the reasons I bought it in the first place-it seemed like a really good deal and it's expertly cut too. How much would you say it's worth if it is heated? (I know some heated sapphires can still be worth a bit too if they're a good color.)

I can't say because it can still be diffused, even if the memo comes back stating it is not diffused, per Pandora. I actually think that's very disconcerting. If it's not heated, it is a nice size stone, and I would say it's at least a $300/ct gem, and you got the whole stone for $200!! That's what I would value it based on what I've seen other similar color unheated sapphires go for, but I'm not an appraiser. It could be worth more than that as it is also a nice large size.

 

[chrono]

The tiny crystals don’t really tell us anything because rutile can still be present after heating. Still, it does decrease the chance of diffusion since the heat required for that treatment process comes close to the melting point of corundum. Perhaps this is the tell tale sign that AGL uses to cross out the possibility of diffusion in some stones so that can state with certainly that no further treatment other than heat was applied.

 

[Pandora II]

There are three tests for Be diffusion:

LIBS (Laser-Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy) - a laser pulse focuses on the surface of the sample creating a plasma. Emissions from the plasma are collected and analysed. Low cost but the least accurate.

SIMS (Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry) - bombardment of sample surface with high energy ions leading to the release of atoms, atom clusters and molecular fragments that are then analysed.

LA-ICP-MS (Laser Ablation - Inductively Coupled Plasma - Mass Spectrometry) - a high-temperature inductively-coupled plasma source which converts the atoms of the elements in the sample into ions. These ions are then separated and detected by the mass spectrometer.

The LA-ICP-MS is the really 99.9% accurate one but is also a MAJOR piece of kit which most labs can't afford - in the UK there is one at Bristol University which the Gemmological Association of GB have used a couple of times. I believe the cost to have a stone analysed is around $500-$600 (I believe it takes many hours to complete each analysis).

Plus, some sapphires naturally contain berryllium so you could have a non-diffused unheated stone testing positive for Be.

Regarding price... for myself, the purpose of testing is to see whether I am paying the right price. The issue of whether you have a stone which may or not be worth more when you already own the stone is probably not worth spending the money unless you are a dealer with a market for the stuff.

If you consider that a Stone X from PS dealer Y costs you £300, you have paid more than trade but less that a B&M jeweller. However, PS dealer Y has probably only paid $100 for the stone in the first place. If you then pay $200 to get a report on your $300 stone, you have spent $400 more than the dealer paid for the stone in the first place. If the dealer - who should know his stuff and his market and have access to buyers - can only get $300 for the stone then the chances of your making any kind of profit on a low value stone are likely zero.

If you are looking at a 4ct premium colour Kashmir sapphire where the mark-up for unheated is in $1000's per ct then I would happily shell out the $500 for LA-ICP-MS.

TL - I'm avoiding ruby completely and only buying blue sapphires that I am pretty certain haven't been heated (to the best of my ability with the equipment that I have available).

Basically when buying stones - buy what you like at the price you like, don't think of them as any kind of investment. Xiriah, I don't see any reason why you would feel you need to send the stone back - you have a pretty sapphire at a good price.

Oh, and just to add a final thing - all the above tests are also destructive as you need to laser a bit off the stone (usually the girdle).

 

[T L]

Thanks for the info Pandora.

I was recently watching a documentary on the Smithsonian Channel on the Hope Diamond. I believe they used the super expensive machinery to test it. They actually did knock some atoms off the stone, but in an inconspicuous spot. When I saw the machine and the enormity of it, I then understood why only a few places in the world had it.

Sapphires are a complex issue with all the treatments they undergo, and I can understand someone with a GG, or someone who really knows their stuff, and has a good microscope, buying them. However, for the regular consumer, IMO they are a bit more precarious to purchase. It's a pity the public isn't aware of these treatments, and buys them so unknowingly and for such high prices too.

I agree that the OP has a lovely sapphire, and it wasn't expensive, but for some of us, it's a "mind thing" and we can't shake the fact that we like completely natural untreated stones, or at least stones with minmal treatment.

 

[Aerix]

Thanks everyone for chiming in. I've decided that I'm going to keep the stone. I bought it because I love it and if it is natural (like the seller said,) I think I got a really good deal. I hope no one thought I bought it to 'invest' in it, what I was asking earlier is, how much would it be worth if it was heated since I'd want to know if I overpaid for it. I might still send it to AGL to have it looked at for the $55 Gembrief just to see what they say.