Noobie looking for Sapphire Ring Buying 101

[hanshananigan]

Hi All,

First, thanks to all the regulars for such great and informative posts and articles! I'm sure my question has been answered before but with the sheer volume in these forums, my searches have uncovered useful info but not quite what I'm looking for...

I'm your average husband looking to buy sweetie the sapphire ring she has been wanting for years. Her parameters are natural and blue (not light blue). My parameters are around $800-1200 and have done enough research to be dangerous and confused. I am looking for the best sapphire for my money with a modest white gold band with the plan to upgrade the setting a few years down the line.

In my price range I could hit Zales but would rather not. Online retailers like angara.com generally don't inspire confidence in a purchase. NSC seems an option, though it sounds like opinions/experiences with them are variable. The local B&M where I got her engagement and wedding rings has nothing readily available in my price range (I spoke with a seasonal salesperson but am going to hunt down the mgr today).

It seems that I could get a nice stone from gemsthailand or another outfit (e.g., Jeff White, if I could afford it) and get it set locally or through the web.

Right now I'm leaning toward NSC, but I would love expert input/recommendations before making a decision.

Thanks!
Hanshan

 

[Justin_Cutter]

It sounds like you are off to a pretty good start! There is a lot of mixed reviews for NSC. They are generally over priced and have poor cuts. Poor cutting is something that greatly plagues the sapphire market unfortunately. Its all about weight and color ha ha.

I'll look around and see if I can find something for you. What are your requirements? Shape, clarity, treatment, size?
~Justin

 

[hanshananigan]

It sounds like you are off to a pretty good start! There is a lot of mixed reviews for NSC. They are generally over priced and have poor cuts. Poor cutting is something that greatly plagues the sapphire market unfortunately. Its all about weight and color ha ha.

I'll look around and see if I can find something for you. What are your requirements? Shape, clarity, treatment, size?
~Justin

Thanks Justin!

Shape: emerald, oval, or round.
Clarity: VS or better.
Treatment: I think heat-treated would be ok (untreated is certainly good).
Size: assuming reasonably good cut, price is more of a determining factor than size.

I'll add that I don't mind posts from dealers with thoughts about their own products and services, if that is within the rules of the forum. The more info the better!

 

[Justin_Cutter]

I'll add that I don't mind posts from dealers with thoughts about their own products and services, if that is within the rules of the forum. The more info the better!

This would indeed be against forum rules.
No Problem. Thanks for the info update!
~Justin

 

[movie zombie]

do you mean natural unheated? or is heated ok?

given the color and clarity you are describing for your price range, well, its not impossible but it will take some time i think. personally, i'd contact gene at precision gem, roger at spectral, and/or jeff at jlwhite to see what they may or may not have in stock..... i'd also put more $ into the stone than i would the setting. but that's me.

http://spectralgems.net/A-corundum.html
this shows some nice blues but no prices....

you can also ask a vendor to keep any eye out for you. also, the tucson show is coming up in january/february and you could work with a vendor to find some rough to cut for you. that is, of course, if you aren't trying to get something by christmas!

good luck!

 

[minousbijoux]

Hi HH:

A couple of questions for you:

1. Do you know the carat size you're looking for?

2. Does she like bling and finger coverage, or does she like delicate?

3. Do you know about the size of her fingers?

ETA: do you have a color preference for a modifier? For that amount, you will have a hard time finding one that is the typical pure blue, so would you prefer to have it lean towards the greenish end or the purplish end? Also, would you prefer to go lighter or darker if you had to?

 

[Justin_Cutter]

do you mean natural unheated? or is heated ok?

given the color and clarity you are describing for your price range, well, its not impossible but it will take some time i think. personally, i'd contact gene at precision gem, roger at spectral, and/or jeff at jlwhite to see what they may or may not have in stock..... i'd also put more $ into the stone than i would the setting. but that's me.

http://spectralgems.net/A-corundum.html
this shows some nice blues but no prices....

you can also ask a vendor to keep any eye out for you. also, the tucson show is coming up in january/february and you could work with a vendor to find some rough to cut for you. that is, of course, if you aren't trying to get something by christmas!

good luck!

Wow I really like that 1.20ct emerald cut Sapphire. Middle row bottom. Wonder what the price is?
~Justin

 

[minousbijoux]

His stones are beautifully cut, but typically a bit pricier than several of the other usual cutters. That said, he is one of my absolute favorite cutters and you will not go wrong buying from Roger...

 

[Aoife]

do you mean natural unheated? or is heated ok?

given the color and clarity you are describing for your price range, well, its not impossible but it will take some time i think. personally, i'd contact gene at precision gem, roger at spectral, and/or jeff at jlwhite to see what they may or may not have in stock..... i'd also put more $ into the stone than i would the setting. but that's me.

http://spectralgems.net/A-corundum.html
this shows some nice blues but no prices....

you can also ask a vendor to keep any eye out for you. also, the tucson show is coming up in january/february and you could work with a vendor to find some rough to cut for you. that is, of course, if you aren't trying to get something by christmas!

good luck!

Wow I really like that 1.20ct emerald cut Sapphire. Middle row bottom. Wonder what the price is?
~Justin

Why thank you, Justin! My husband and I bought it a couple of weeks ago

It is a gorgeous color, heated, and beautifully cut. It was the first time I have bought from Roger, but it absolutely will not be the last. He is a true pleasure to deal with.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Aoife,
Congratulations! I am so happy for you, and it looks amazing! I am glad to hear that your experience was good.
~Justin

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="Aoife|1323567226|3078862]Why thank you, Justin! My husband and I bought it a couple of weeks ago

It is a gorgeous color, heated, and beautifully cut. It was the first time I have bought from Roger, but it absolutely will not be the last. He is a true pleasure to deal with.[/quote]



it is indeed gorgeous! i personally don't have a problem with a heated stone that results in such a fab color!

however, the price tag for a desireable stone such as that, well, i'm sure it would make me pause.......

 

[Aoife]

[quote="Aoife|1323567226|3078862]Why thank you, Justin! My husband and I bought it a couple of weeks ago

It is a gorgeous color, heated, and beautifully cut. It was the first time I have bought from Roger, but it absolutely will not be the last. He is a true pleasure to deal with.

it is indeed gorgeous! i personally don't have a problem with a heated stone that results in such a fab color!

however, the price tag for a desireable stone such as that, well, i'm sure it would make me pause.......[/quote][/quote]

Apologies to the OP, I don't mean to threadjack, but am hoping that you might find some of this discussion helpful.

MZ, I prefer unheated sapphires, but this stone is for my DH, and we had been looking for exactly the right shape/size/color for quite a while. When he saw this stone , that was it for him, even though I pointed out the slight zoning, and the fact that it was heated. He didn't care about it being heated, and when I asked Roger about the zoning he sent several photos of it taken from different angles, and also told me that the zoning is not evident face-up. When we received the stone, the zoning really isn't noticeable, especially to my DH, and I have no doubt that it may have impacted the price: much more affordable than it would otherwise have been. And the color! Wow.

AGL confirmed that it is only heat enhanced, no other treatments detected.

For those CS'ers who haven't bought from Spectral yet, and are wondering about the accuracy of the photos, and how Roger and Ginger are to deal with, I would say that the color in the photo on the website of the sapphire we bought is a bit more subdued than the IRL stone. And, the photo also clearly shows the slight zoning. What is interesting about that is that none of the other photos that Roger sent me show the zoning as clearly, so if he had been inclined to downplay that aspect of the sapphire, he clearly could have, and he chose to be upfront, which really impressed me.

 

[minousbijoux]

Here are a few that I might recommend.

The first is a little out of your price range, and I show it to you for a couple of reasons: 1) It shows the color level that I would buy from this vendor (that is, all vendors photos are different. His stones, particularly sapphs, tend to be darker IRL); and 2) personally, I love stones that are fairly deep with a high crown like this one. It often means there will be a lot of sparkle and scintillation as light reflects back. If you were interested, I would see if he would drop the price a bit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-13ct-CERTIFIED-Unheated-Oval-Cut-Violet-Blue-Sapphire-/370252519676?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item5634c518fc#ht_2376wt_907

This next one I can't get the video to work. If you were interested, I would definitely ask to see the video as his videos are more accurate than his stills. But this one seems to have good color (it may be a little dark; you'd have to see the video to know for sure) and shape, and is within your price range:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-82ct-Exceptional-Fine-Octagon-Natural-Blue-Sapphire-/350183176806?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item51888b3a66#ht_2425wt_1114

This one might be a little dark (a question I would ask him - how this one performs in different lightings), but its within your budget:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-44ct-Beautiful-Cushion-Cut-Natural-Blue-Sapphire-/330647841793?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item4cfc25ac01#ht_2569wt_958

Last one an unheated Tanzanian stone (the above are all from Madagascar). It is a pear shape, which you probably wouldn't be interested in, but again I thought it was a pretty stone with a slight violet tint:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-56ct-UNHEATED-Outstanding-Pear-Natural-Blue-Sapphire-/250668967075?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3a5d08e4a3#ht_1867wt_907

 

[hanshananigan]

Thanks for the recommendations, folks, and the links!

Regarding minousbijoux's questions and a few others...

1. Do you know the carat size you're looking for?
There is a saying in the mountain biking world... "strong, light, cheap... pick two." I imagine that there is a similar sentiment in the gem world, so I'm leaving carat size as the degree of freedom.

2. Does she like bling and finger coverage, or does she like delicate?
Good question. She pointed out several styles, but I think she likes deco style but not necessarily bling - no Princess Di for her. On the other hand, as suggested by another poster, I'd like to get a simple and cheap band that could be upgraded later.

3. Do you know about the size of her fingers?
Not yet... she is a pretty common size but forget what off-hand.

4. do you have a color preference for a modifier?
I would imagine greenish side if necessary and lighter rather than darker.

One thing I really don't have a handle on is how much a setting (and getting it set) would cost if I buy the gem separately, so any links or advice would be very helpful! For example, I wouldn't want to buy a gem if it costs $600 locally to get it set on a cheap 10k ring.

Oh yeah, and I went back to the B&M where I bought my wife's wedding ring set and they mysteriously produced another sapphire ring that was a bit above my price range after discount (the mgr knocked a couple more hundred off after we talked). The 0.9 carat stone was rather dark with no sparkle, so that didn't make an impression. Also, the salesperson didn't understand what I meant when I asked if it was heat treated and told me that clarity ratings are only for diamonds because all sapphires have some inclusions. That seemed inconsistent with what I've learned here and elsewhere... I search on, and have no expectation to find something before Christmas! (maybe VT day)

 

[chrono]

1. A mm size range will be very helpful to know. In reality, colour sets the price (and in a way, the size as well). The stronger the saturation, the higher the price. So for those on a set budget, and who isn't , the size then decreases. However, most ladies have a minimum size in mind, so some give and take is a given. As long as you leave the shape option open, you remain very flexible.

2. I'd put more down towards the stone than the ring. It is easy enough to upgrade the setting at any time but not so for the stone.

3. The one thing I appreciate about buying the gem separately is that I get more quality control and choices in the sapphire itself. Most completed rings have mid to poor quality stones (but not all). I've seen some decently well made 14K settings from eBay and your jeweller will be able to order American made settings for you as well.

With regards to inclusions, yes, almost all sapphires have inclusions. That said, aim for eye clean and are purchased with a different set of criteria than colourless diamonds. However, sapphires and other gemstones DO have clarity ratings but they are different for each gemstone family type.

 

[hanshananigan]

1. A mm size range will be very helpful to know.

Golly, I don't know... if oval, 5.0mm x 7.0mm? Round 5.0mm? Price is the limiting factor here.

3. The one thing I appreciate about buying the gem separately is that I get more quality control and choices in the sapphire itself. Most completed rings have mid to poor quality stones (but not all). I've seen some decently well made 14K settings from eBay and your jeweller will be able to order American made settings for you as well.

Definitely. I am seeing simple 14k white gold settings online for $300-$500. Is that the expected range? How much should I expect to pay to get a stone placed in a setting (and resize the ring, if necessary)?

Thanks!

 

[chrono]

Depending on where you live and how complicated the setting is (lots of pave versus plain shank), the setting of the stone and resizing could cost you around $100. If fussy, the setting might need to be re-rhodium plated.

 

[Kitten35]

My jeweler charges about $30 to place a stone in a setting but that is for a plain solitaire setting no bells or whistles. It's also $30 to resize, but again, that's for a plain band. I've no idea if you get into more complicated settings.

 

[hanshananigan]

Thanks Chrono and Kitten! Any suggestions for links to sellers of inexpensive settings (white gold) would be greatly appreciated - I'll look around the site in the interim. Thanks!

 

[hanshananigan]

Thanks again for your help, folks! I've posted elsewhere about a stone I am considering. In the meantime, here is a story...

So, I was at a Macy's looking at their sapphire collection over the weekend and I asked about any certifications or info on treatment on one of the earring sets (thinking ahead). The sales clerk politely said she didn't know and flagged her manager. The manager relayed that all their sapphires are "definitely natural and untreated." That didn't sound right, so I went home and did some sleuthing... I first found this Macy's webpage (http://www.macys.com/r63x05_gemstone_popup.jsp) that clearly states that their sapphires are "usually heated to improve appearance. Occasionally irradiated. Commonly diffused..." Hmmm. Then I found a few sites that note investigative reports and lawsuits associated with Macy's lack of um, lack of transparency: http://sfpublicpress.org/news/2010-07/macys-sells-rubies-filled-with-glass and http://brandilawblog.com/category/macys-fake-gem-lawsuit/

I imagine most folks who lurk here are not surprised!

 

[T L]

Thanks again for your help, folks! I've posted elsewhere about a stone I am considering. In the meantime, here is a story...

So, I was at a Macy's looking at their sapphire collection over the weekend and I asked about any certifications or info on treatment on one of the earring sets (thinking ahead). The sales clerk politely said she didn't know and flagged her manager. The manager relayed that all their sapphires are "definitely natural and untreated." That didn't sound right, so I went home and did some sleuthing... I first found this Macy's webpage (http://www.macys.com/r63x05_gemstone_popup.jsp) that clearly states that their sapphires are "usually heated to improve appearance. Occasionally irradiated. Commonly diffused..." Hmmm. Then I found a few sites that note investigative reports and lawsuits associated with Macy's lack of um, lack of transparency: http://sfpublicpress.org/news/2010-07/macys-sells-rubies-filled-with-glass and http://brandilawblog.com/category/macys-fake-gem-lawsuit/

I imagine most folks who lurk here are not surprised!

Not surprised at all, even Tiffany & Co. talks about irradiation, heating and diffusion in their list of "accepted" treatments on sapphires the last time I saw anything on treatment from them (which is hard to find). Sapphires are also sometimes coated and can even be fracture filled. Most retailers do not disclose treatments on sapphires, and if they do, they say "heating" which can mean diffusion as well. Dateline once reported on this.

"Dateline" intimated that such well known retailers as Bailey, Banks, & Biddle, Tiffany and Co., and Macy's have all withheld information about the treatment of gemstones they sell. "

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/gfspr98two.html