In search of a Ruby for my engagement ring

[PersianGemstone]

Hello PS world,

Now that I've abandoned the notion of having a demantoid engagement ring due to its level of hardness, or rather softness, I am now in search of a ruby (my boyfriend's birthstone).

We've been to the jewelry district in L.A. and found some amazing prices for loose gemstones, but we weren't seriously looking at that time...just window shopping. Now that we are looking, it's very difficult to get back to L.A. given where we live and our busy work schedules.

We are looking for a ruby for a center stone that will hopefully be 1.4CT or larger, no heat and no treatment (all natural), with a certificate (if possible). As for the color, I would like one that is more red rather than a milky pink. Preference is for some thing that would be considered "blood pigeon" or similar. The vintage-inspired ring design we have in mind calls for a cushion, emerald, old miner, asscher, or radiant cut center stone.

In L.A., we went to several wholesalers that would offer to sell individual pieces at wholesale prices. One piece we briefly considered was 1.3ct emerald cut ruby that was somewhat close to the color I would like - going for the HOT price of $389. We would like to find something similar via a reputable online jeweler/wholesaler. Does such a thing exist?

Is there anything else I should know about rubies? I'm sure I'll have more questions but that's it for now.

I look forward to responses and any guidance offered.

 

[Marlow]

A 1,3 ct for $ 389 ....

A lower quality or treated - def. not high quality and untreated.

Natural untreated ruby is extremely rare and expensive. It would be easier for you if you accept a heated ( only) stone. Fine unheated is so rare that many vendors - if they get one - have enough customer waiting for such a stone.

Next problem - you live in USA so no way to get a burmese ruby from outside USA ( there is a ban for rubies from Myanmar)

This is an example for a thai ruby in your size - price is very good - a bit flat and the color a bit darker with a bit brown....

http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=9938

 

[LoversKites]

First of all. Never ever buy an expensive ruby without a report from a reputable lab. Otherwise you don't know what you're buying. Not all labs have the tools to detect some treatements, so there are only a handful of labs that you can trust with ruby. AGL is recommended as they have spotted treatments like oiling in ruby which another lab missed.

What's your budget?

Here's one already with an AGL report for example, with African origin, 12.5k. All this sellers 1+ct burmese rubies are heated, but do take a look at their inventory.
http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/ruby-1.54-carats.html

 

[eastjavaman]

This page is full of natural and untreated rubies, but it is always good to have a reputable lab report. You can gauge how much it will cost to get a natural untreated Ruby.

http://www.wildfishgems.com/ruby_1_to_2_carat?b=1

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Robert would be who I'd contact.

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/rubyfs.html

 

[chrono]

Expect a price tag of around $20K and upwards for a 1.5 ct untreated top colour Burmese ruby, if you can even find one. Mozambique rubies might be your best bet. Yes, I know it's on eBay but he is a reputable vendor who so happens to set up shop on eBay as another sales avenue.

Not a top red but the $5K price tag reflects it too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-Vivid-Red-Purple-Mozambique-Ruby-Oval-1-42-Ct-Eye-Clean-Gem-AIGS-/121547755273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4ccf8f09

Better colour and hits the 2 ct mark but I think it might have cut issues.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-Strong-Pinkish-Red-Mozambique-Ruby-Cushion-2-02-Ct-Eye-Clean-Gem-/121503669772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4a2ede0c

Better cut but still pinkish red.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-Strong-Pinkish-Red-Mozambique-Ruby-Cushion-2-carat-Near-Eye-Clean-/121499380250?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item1c49ed6a1a

 

[T L]

We are looking for a ruby for a center stone that will hopefully be 1.4CT or larger, no heat and no treatment (all natural), with a certificate (if possible). As for the color, I would like one that is more red rather than a milky pink. Preference is for some thing that would be considered "blood pigeon" or similar. The vintage-inspired ring design we have in mind calls for a cushion, emerald, old miner, asscher, or radiant cut center stone.

For your qualifications, expect to pays thousands of dollars for this stone, at least $15K. African material may be less money, but even the high quality untreated material is still thousands of dollars. A highly reputable lab report from GIA, AGL, or one of the European labs like GRS, SSEF, Gueblin, should accompany the stone.

I wouldn't even bother looking for specific cuts, because what you want is very difficult to find as high quality "pigeon blood" rubies that have no treatment are very rare, especially in sizes above 1.4 carats. 99% will be cut in ovals. If you're lucky, you might find a round.

 

[PersianGemstone]

Oh wow! I did not think it would be that expensive. I am afraid we will have to sacrifice getting an all natural ruby for a heated one. But I do not think we want any other kind of treatment imposed on the stone.

I am not sure what his budget is. I can only hypothesize that he probably cannot spend any more than $4-6K in total for the stone plus the setting. The setting we both agreed upon is estimated to be $2-2.5K (platinum with a diamond halo).

I am actually okay with a ruby that is not officially designated as "pigeon blood" but can come close. Something like the color of a juicy red pomegranate seed or almost like a garnet. I would also be okay with rubies that have a pink color similar to the "neon pink red" that I've seen described for some rubies. But the color of rubies I've found in chain jewelry stores are a big turn off. You know...that milky pink and poor clarity.

As for the shape, I guess an oval will suffice if it comes close to looking like a cushion cut. Or at least, once placed in the rectangular style halo, it can subdue the circular cut of the oval. To clarify, the halo will have one round diamond set on each of the four corners and a thin diamond baguette will adorn the top, bottom, and sides of the ruby. Still haven't figured out if I want the halo to be flush with the ruby or if I want the Ruby slightly raised above the halo. I had originally wanted an asscher cut, but have been told that only diamonds are cut like that. Not rubies.

 

[LoversKites]

Oh wow! I did not think it would be that expensive. I am afraid we will have to sacrifice getting an all natural ruby for a heated one. But I do not think we want any other kind of treatment imposed on the stone.

I am not sure what his budget is. I can only hypothesize that he probably cannot spend any more than $4-6K in total for the stone plus the setting. The setting we both agreed upon is estimated to be $2-2.5K (platinum with a diamond halo).

I am actually okay with a ruby that is not officially designated as "pigeon blood" but can come close. Something like the color of a juicy red pomegranate seed or almost like a garnet. I would also be okay with rubies that have a pink color similar to the "neon pink red" that I've seen described for some rubies. But the color of rubies I've found in chain jewelry stores are a big turn off. You know...that milky pink and poor clarity.

As for the shape, I guess an oval will suffice if it comes close to looking like a cushion cut. Or at least, once placed in the rectangular style halo, it can subdue the circular cut of the oval. To clarify, the halo will have one round diamond set on each of the four corners and a thin diamond baguette will adorn the top, bottom, and sides of the ruby. Still haven't figured out if I want the halo to be flush with the ruby or if I want the Ruby slightly raised above the halo. I had originally wanted an asscher cut, but have been told that only diamonds are cut like that. Not rubies.

Rubies are sometimes cut in a square cut similar to asscher (there is a few on AJSgems) but its a very rare cut for ruby, and typically faces up small compared to ovals, pears, etc.

How do you feel about red spinel? Its less expensive than ruby and less commonly treated than ruby. The main issue with these is that they often shift to a brownish colour in some lighting. You'd have to ask the seller about that.

Here's just an example -
http://www.ajsgem.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-2.01-carats.html

 

[Marlow]

Think, the "magic" of an Asscher is the clarity of the gem material like diamond or merelanimint garnet combined with a noble cut. An included or sleepy ruby - no! A synthetic would look nice but this is not what you are looking for...

As TL posted most are oval or cushion. My advice - a fine color and a stone around 1 ct is better than a larger stone which a weaker color.

And compare prices - a high or very high price is not a guarantee for a high quality - esp. if the vendor uses highly photoshopped pictures!!

 

[eastjavaman]

Think, the "magic" of an Asscher is the clarity of the gem material like diamond or merelanimint garnet combined with a noble cut. An included or sleepy ruby - no! A synthetic would look nice but this is not what you are looking for...

As TL posted most are oval or cushion. My advice - a fine color and a stone around 1 ct is better than a larger stone which a weaker color.

And compare prices - a high or very high price is not a guarantee for a high quality - esp. if the vendor uses highly photoshopped pictures!!

I agree Marlow, The natural silkiness in Mogok ruby or Kashmir sapphire that they are famous for would cloud "The Steps to Eternity" in Asscher cut.

 

[T L]

Think, the "magic" of an Asscher is the clarity of the gem material like diamond or merelanimint garnet combined with a noble cut. An included or sleepy ruby - no! A synthetic would look nice but this is not what you are looking for...

As TL posted most are oval or cushion. My advice - a fine color and a stone around 1 ct is better than a larger stone which a weaker color.

And compare prices - a high or very high price is not a guarantee for a high quality - esp. if the vendor uses highly photoshopped pictures!!

Rubies also face up small because they're very dense stones. A one carat ruby can look like a 50 to 75 pointer for most other gems.

I'm pretty much a "ruby pessimist" though. Most of what I see out there is too expensive for the treatment, size and color. For that reason, ruby is the one popular gem I don't own.

Red gems in general are hard to find in good color that hold their saturation level in all lighting.

 

[Marlow]

Agree - many rubies are not very nice or to good to be true ( treated)

I don't collect them anymore - I prefer hot pink - magenta Sri Lanka sapphire - cheaper with better clarity and a real nice color.

 

[SparkliesLuver]

How do you feel about red spinel? Its less expensive than ruby and less commonly treated than ruby. The main issue with these is that they often shift to a brownish colour in some lighting. You'd have to ask the seller about that.

Here's just an example -
http://www.ajsgem.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-2.01-carats.html

OP, please let me know if you're interested in the above spinel. Only if you're not, then I might consider it. Thank you!

 

[chrono]

This is probably at the upper range of your budget at $4K but the colour is pretty, zero treatment, excellent transparency and it is close enough to an asscher cut. The downside is that it is closer to the 1 ct range and step cuts almost always face up smaller than other cut shapes. This one should fit a 6 x 6 mm setting. That said, step cuts are exceedingly rare for rubies so if you really want a step cut stone, this might be the one for you.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AIGS-Certified-Fine-Red-Pink-Mozambique-Ruby-1-13ct-Square-Octagon-Sparkle/121548306477?_trksid=p2046732.c100040.m2060&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107095009%26meid%3Db071279eae4c4c41bcef5b243a9a2508%26pid%3D100040%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D121548311364

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Excellent find, Chrono! Wow. I'd sacrifice a little on the setting for a stone like that.

 

[LoversKites]

That's beautiful Chrono.

 

[LoversKites]

Think, the "magic" of an Asscher is the clarity of the gem material like diamond or merelanimint garnet combined with a noble cut. An included or sleepy ruby - no! A synthetic would look nice but this is not what you are looking for...

I never thought about this but it's true. ECs and asschers showcase high clarity beautifully.
There is a poster on another gemology forum who has a stunning asscher cut synthetic ruby.

 

[chrono]

The first is a square cushion at $2K
The second is a rectangular scissor cut at $3500

http://www.gemfix.com/ruby.html
Given that the first is a Mong Hsu ruby and the second might be, I would make sure the vendor sends it off to AGL to find out whether it has been diffused and how much flux healing (it falls under heat) it has.

Between the three options I have shared thus far, I'd rather purchase the 1.13 ct step cut ruby because it is totally untreated and step cuts are rare. Interestingly, although the square cushion is 1.5 carats, it faces up the same size as the 1.13 ct step cut ruby.

 

[LoversKites]

Between the three options I have shared thus far, I'd rather purchase the 1.13 ct step cut ruby because it is totally untreated and step cuts are rare. Interestingly, although the square cushion is 1.5 carats, it faces up the same size as the 1.13 ct step cut ruby.

Same, although it is more pink than these two. The clarity, lack of treatment and great pinkish/purplish/reddish colour would be worth it to me.

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Between the three options I have shared thus far, I'd rather purchase the 1.13 ct step cut ruby because it is totally untreated and step cuts are rare.

+1 Also, did you see the color and clarity (and yes, the cut!)?!

I take back what I said before and change it to: I'd sacrifice a lot on the setting for a stone like that.

 

[Marlow]

Between the three options I have shared thus far, I'd rather purchase the 1.13 ct step cut ruby because it is totally untreated and step cuts are rare. Interestingly, although the square cushion is 1.5 carats, it faces up the same size as the 1.13 ct step cut ruby.

Same, although it is more pink than these two. The clarity, lack of treatment and great pinkish/purplish/reddish colour would be worth it to me.

You can find hot pink sapphire close to this color with a much better price from Sri Lanka.

A problem with Niassa ( Mozambique ) ruby - they look great in incandescent light but in daylight you often have a "hot pink sapphire" instead a pinkish red to red ruby. I have several Niassa and Winza rubies. So if you pay 4 K for such a def. fine stone check them in different lights sources.

 

[LoversKites]

Between the three options I have shared thus far, I'd rather purchase the 1.13 ct step cut ruby because it is totally untreated and step cuts are rare. Interestingly, although the square cushion is 1.5 carats, it faces up the same size as the 1.13 ct step cut ruby.

Same, although it is more pink than these two. The clarity, lack of treatment and great pinkish/purplish/reddish colour would be worth it to me.

You can find hot pink sapphire close to this color with a much better price from Sri Lanka.

A problem with Niassa ( Mozambique ) ruby - they look great in incandescent light but in daylight you often have a "hot pink sapphire" instead a pinkish red to red ruby. I have several Niassa and Winza rubies. So if you pay 4 K for such a def. fine stone check them in different lights sources.

That's valuable information.
I think that the OP might find your thread interesting: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/burmese-ruby-vs-sri-lanka-hot-pink-and-pink-sapphire.205847/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/burmese-ruby-vs-sri-lanka-hot-pink-and-pink-sapphire.205847/[/URL]

 

[wordie89]

Oh! Pretty! Makes me wish I'd won that huge powerball last week....think of the colored stones. Helpful info about the African stones Marlow. Now I'm going to look at my little ruby again.

 

[PersianGemstone]

How do you feel about red spinel? Its less expensive than ruby and less commonly treated than ruby. The main issue with these is that they often shift to a brownish colour in some lighting. You'd have to ask the seller about that.

Here's just an example -
http://www.ajsgem.com/gemstones/spinel/spinel-2.01-carats.html

OP, please let me know if you're interested in the above spinel. Only if you're not, then I might consider it. Thank you!

Loverskites - thanks for the link to this beautiful spinel. However, I plan to stick with ruby as it is my boyfriend's birthstone and will thus be symbolic for my engagement ring.

SparkliesLuver...It's all yours!

 

[PersianGemstone]

Between the three options I have shared thus far, I'd rather purchase the 1.13 ct step cut ruby because it is totally untreated and step cuts are rare.

+1 Also, did you see the color and clarity (and yes, the cut!)?!

I take back what I said before and change it to: I'd sacrifice a lot on the setting for a stone like that.

Chrono - those stones are absolutely fabulous! I sent the information to my boyfriend. Hoping to hear back from him soon. At the very least, maybe we can talk about it this weekend once he returns from his work trip.

And I agree with both Chrono and SparkliesLuver...The 1.13 ct "asscher" cut is the one I'd prefer out of the three due to the color, clarity, cut, and no treatment.

 

[PersianGemstone]

This is probably at the upper range of your budget at $4K but the colour is pretty, zero treatment, excellent transparency and it is close enough to an asscher cut. The downside is that it is closer to the 1 ct range and step cuts almost always face up smaller than other cut shapes. This one should fit a 6 x 6 mm setting. That said, step cuts are exceedingly rare for rubies so if you really want a step cut stone, this might be the one for you.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AIGS-Certified-Fine-Red-Pink-Mozambique-Ruby-1-13ct-Square-Octagon-Sparkle/121548306477?_trksid=p2046732.c100040.m2060&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107095009%26meid%3Db071279eae4c4c41bcef5b243a9a2508%26pid%3D100040%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D121548311364

Do you know if this dealer is a reputable one? I'm always wary of purchasing items off of ebay.

 

[LoversKites]

This is probably at the upper range of your budget at $4K but the colour is pretty, zero treatment, excellent transparency and it is close enough to an asscher cut. The downside is that it is closer to the 1 ct range and step cuts almost always face up smaller than other cut shapes. This one should fit a 6 x 6 mm setting. That said, step cuts are exceedingly rare for rubies so if you really want a step cut stone, this might be the one for you.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AIGS-Certified-Fine-Red-Pink-Mozambique-Ruby-1-13ct-Square-Octagon-Sparkle/121548306477?_trksid=p2046732.c100040.m2060&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107095009%26meid%3Db071279eae4c4c41bcef5b243a9a2508%26pid%3D100040%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D121548311364

Do you know if this dealer is a reputable one? I'm always wary of purchasing items off of ebay.

From what I know, very reputable.

 

[LoversKites]

Are you sure you like it though? You said you want a dominant red colour, I'd call that one mostly a mix of pink and purple. If you end up getting it be sure that it looks good in all lighting you'll usually be under.

 

[chrono]

Do you know if this dealer is a reputable one? I'm always wary of purchasing items off of ebay.

I would not recommend any vendor that I do not trust or would not purchase from personally.