Another Tsavorite

[oldmancoyote]

...well, not quite, at least not yet. But definitely looking for a pair to set into earrings. I found two seemingly nice pairs, both supposedly eye-clean.

Purportedly unenhanced photos attached.

Face-up size of ovals is about 8.5 x 6.5; cushions are about 6.2 x 5.3

Now the questions: Given the wearer is petite but wears largish earrings, do you think the cushions are large enough? Or would the ovals look better (they are nearly 3 times the price, even though they are only about 1.5 x weight)?

Any suggestions for earring style and/or maker? Only must is pendant-shape and post (butterfly/omega wire) or French wire/sheperd''s crook fastening.

Any other stones or merchant you would suggest I look at?

(any other comments or suggestions are more than welcome, of course!)

Thank you!

 

[oldmancoyote]

The ovals

 

[Harriet]

OMC,
Great colour! I''d go with the cushions -- the ovals don''t look quite symmetrical as photographed (plus I''m partial to cushions). As for jeweller, my favourite is Leon Mege: www.artofplatinum.com With respect to the price difference between the cushions and the ovals, I believe the former are slightly more common given Tsavorite''s crystal shape.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Thanks Harriet!

Would the name "Kuranze" attached to either stone pair change anything, or it''s really just a marketing ploy?

 

[AmberGretchen]

I also prefer the cushions. As a somewhat petite woman myself, I would prefer stones in that size, and I agree w/ Harriet - I like the look of them better

 

[Harriet]

Is the vendor stating that the stones are from the Kuranze mines? From what I know, Kuranze Tsavorites are not any more prized that, say, Scorpion ones.

One more thing about the price difference:
There may be a subtle difference in hue that is indiscernible on the monitor. If I were you, I'd call both pairs in and see which ones I love. What is the tcw and price of each, if you don't mind?

 

[LD]

I prefer the cushions BUT the ovals look like they have less extinction and more general colour play.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Ovals 3.6 ctw - $4300; graded slbG 6/5 by merchant (no lab paper)
Cushions 2.1 ctw - $1500; graded G 6/5 by merchant (no lab paper)

Does the slight blue really make that difference? If they were diamonds I'd be worried about the cushions being quite deep (3.8 mm vs. 4.5 for the ovals), but it may not be a bad thing here...

AmberGretchen: thank you!

One bit of trivia: if it were for the location only, I'd want a Malgasy tsavorite - they come from the Gogogogo area...

ETA: LovingDiamonds: thanks. You have captured my concerns exactly. I'm a little worried the cushions may be dark, although I guess asking the dealer is the only way to make sure.

Harriet: Calling them in may be a little difficult due to extortionate custom duties - perhaps I can send to an appraiser in the US (Richard Sherwood?) and have the appraiser return the "worse" pair + forward the "good" ones to Leon or whomever else - have you ever done this?

 

[Harriet]

Lovingdiamonds,
It''s tough to make a colour call in this case since the photos aren''t exactly professionally done. When I was choosing between Tsavorites for my ring, the photo of the one I eventually picked was awful.

 

[Harriet]

Aha! So it is the blue secondary. I paid a premium for it too.

ETA: Or you could have them sent to me. I haven't had to do as you described because I live in the US. I think sending them to an appraiser is a good idea, given your situation. But, I'd hate to buy a coloured stone sight unseen.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I would have both stones sent in and see what you think. One more thing is that you want to make sure they are not too dark to be set. I could go either way based on the photos. A little blue in a tsavorite (I think a small percentage) can actually be a good thing. For these stones you want to have as much green as possible without a lot of yellow (unless that is what you like of course). Color stones are not cut like diamonds. They may be a cut a little deeper to prevent a window and allow for maximum brilliance.

 

[coatimundi_org]

another cushion vote!

 

[oldmancoyote]

Thanks Coati and LtlFireCracker (BTW - is your avatar a tsavorite? I''m kind of becoming obsessed!). I definitely want green; blue may be interesting, though not worth a 50% premium (for my taste), but no yellow.

I think the plan is:

1. Contact a couple of appraisers and see who is willing to help (and at what cost)
2. Contact the vendor and see if they rule out any of the pairs themselves (or they may have a third option!)
3. Get the stones over to the appraiser
4. Await with bated breath the verdict

then the real fun begins: deciding on a design for the earrings.

Thanks all - and more opinions and votes are still very welcome.

 

[Harriet]

OMC,
Welcome to Tsavorites Anonymous. What is the premium on a per carat basis (my brain''s on vacation)? Another thing to note is that the ovals pass the 3 ct. mark as compared to the cushions.

 

[oldmancoyote]

My name is Coyote and I have a Tsavorite problem... as you have just read.

Premium is 67% (or 480 $/ct). It''s true that the ctw is above 3ct, but at 3.6 that means the individual stone is still below 2 (if above 1.5). I''m not sure how much of a size premium that involves - all sites seem to go below 1, below 2, below 3. Or for pairs it is the total weight that counts?

 

[ma re]

Color seems nicer in ovals (cushions look too dark), so if you can afford them I''d get those. I wouldn''t worry too much about them being slightly big, cause that can be "masked" with a proper design - for example going with some sort of simple dangles instead of studs.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Thanks ma re - they definitely won''t go into studs; the wearer wants pendants!

 

[LD]

OMC my understanding is the same as yours in that if they were both over 2ct a premium would be commanded - at 1.5ct I''m not sure that''s the case. Having said that, I know the vendor and have spoken with them on the phone, emailed etc. I''m sure they''d give you an honest assessment if you told them of your concerns.

In the video of the cushions, the extinction is very clear (and in gem one more so than the other). I would surmise that once set, the darker of the two would be a tad too dark (for my taste). The ovals on the other hand perform well. One is again slightly darker but I like the performance better than the cushions. I also think the Chromium element in the ovals makes them slightly different to the "norm".

As an added bonus the Ovals are on a Christmas special of $3898 so you''ll save a bit of money - not sure if that''s only open to members but you should be able to see it online if you are. The cushions are now $1303 also.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Thanks LD - it''s unclear if the "Christmas Special" offer is still valid. On other gems it says "10 to 24 December" - still, they haven''t sold, so I may even ask for a larger discount

. Will give them a ring tomorrow and keep you all posted.

 

[Harriet]

OMC,
That''s a painful premium. I paid a much smaller one (I can''t recall how much though) for my 3+ ct. as compared to a 4+ ct. Chromium isn''t a factor since the garnet wouldn''t be a Tsavorite without it! The colouring agents in Tsavorites are Chromium and Vanadium.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Hmmm... it sounds like a call to Winks may be in order too...

 

[Harriet]

OMC,

Try Leon instead. He has an excellent source of Tsavorites.

Here's my pet rock:
http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=469

 

[Pandora II]

Ditto to everything that Harriet has said.

Personally I''d go for the cushions - the initial photos of my tsavorite looked very dark, IRL it''s a medium dark and very, very green. I reckon the colour of the cushions will be much closer to top colour than the ovals.

I would also pay a premium for the blue tint - I have tsavorites with and without and it really does make a difference.

I''ve worked with both Wink and Richard M. - you can''t go wrong either way.

 

[LD]

Date: 12/28/2008 4:06:48 PM
Author: Harriet
OMC,
That''s a painful premium. I paid a much smaller one (I can''t recall how much though) for my 3+ ct. as compared to a 4+ ct. Chromium isn''t a factor since the garnet wouldn''t be a Tsavorite without it! The colouring agents in Tsavorites are Chromium and Vanadium.

My understanding is that some Tsavorites contain Vanadium only. Please correct me if I''m wrong.

 

[LD]

Date: 12/28/2008 3:44:46 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
Thanks LD - it''s unclear if the ''Christmas Special'' offer is still valid. On other gems it says ''10 to 24 December'' - still, they haven''t sold, so I may even ask for a larger discount

. Will give them a ring tomorrow and keep you all posted.

Good luck!

 

[Harriet]

Lovingdiamonds,
I don''t like to correct people, but I''m afraid you''re mistaken on this count. Sorry.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Yes it is, I just got it set (but it is still at the jeweler b/c they set it too high). Here is a pic of it in a prong setting just to show you how they can darken. I actually think it darkened to the perfect color. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-aqua.103090/ - scroll down to about half way the thread and you will see it.

I am not saying get a blue stone. All colored stones have a primary hue (the color you call it when you first see it) and a secondary hue, that gives the color it''s individual personality. A yellow secondary hue will give the a tsavorite a lime green look. A blue secondary hue will give the stone a deep green look. The latter is considered the better color for this stone by the experts. But the consumer should buy the stone they like.

 

[marcy]

I voted for the cushion.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 12/28/2008 5:05:00 PM
Author: Harriet
Lovingdiamonds,
I don't like to correct people, but I'm afraid you're mistaken on this count. Sorry.

Harriet, it looks like LD may be right - according to Palagems and Richard Hughes (http://www.palagems.com/tsavorite_bancroft.htm - towards the bottom of the article)

Palagems.com Tsavorite Garnet Buying Guide
By Richard W. Hughes

[...]
Color. While the color of tsavorite never equals that of the finest emerald, an emerald-green is the ideal. The color should be as intense as possible, without being overly dark or yellowish green. The color of tsavorite is believed to be due to vanadium, at times with a trace of chromium. [my emphasis]
[...]

Other net sources also quote V and/or Cr; the Palagems one seemed the most authoritative - unfortunately my reference gemmology books are all in storage, so can't check on academic-level references. Whether this makes any difference in terms of real or perceived rarity/value, is a different question altogether.

Pandora II: thanks for the suggestion. Will give Richard M a call - there was nothing on his site, but with the holidays and the lack of liquidity I understand people may not be willing to keep this kind of stone in stock just in case a crazy Coyote turns up.

Marcyc: thank you. And Happy New Year to all!

LtlFirecracker: thanks for posting the link. I can't make up my mind if I like it more when set (where a blue tinge seems to come out) or unset (where it's brighter).

 

[Harriet]

Harrumph...I had the Chromium info on sound authority, but am happy to be corrected. Sorry, LovingD!