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fire&ice

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Lost on 5th has the right idea. You really need to start separating the pieces of the puzzle.

Cabinets - more than likely you aren''t going to be able to "buy" new cabinets to match. You need to have them made. This is why I''m thinking you may want to paint them - if I recall correctly - the currents ones are solid wood -Maple? It may be hard/expensive to match the solid wood - it may not. Figure out what you want. If you remove the hinges (yeah, they are the most telling of a time before - and not in the good way I like), you are going to have holes to fill - so they are probably going to need to be painted or refinished anyway. Have a carpenter price it out (also look how much it will cost to replace them all). Unless your BIL is a carpenter, I''d be hestitant to let him do it. Though, if he does remodeling on a regular basis, he probably knows someone. Then have someone price out to refinish or paint the current ones.

Floors - What do you have now - it looks like Vinyl? I''m particular about flooring. We have wood in both houses. It''s what we are used to. My parents had ceramic tile & they hated it. It was too hard on their feet - plus when you dropped something it shattered. It''s not insulating to noise. Your choices are Vinyl, tile, wood (pergo or natural), cork, recently - I''m feeling the love for the very Green conscious - bamboo. Not all vinyl is created equal. There are some nice products out there - it comes in tile and sheets. Measure the area that you need covered. Go to a home store - look at your options and price it out. Once you have the options with pricing - you can make your decision.

Countertops - Granite, tile, Plastic Laminate, Corian varietals, Some new product which gives me the creeps (hardystone?). Except for Plastic Laminate, all the others are going to be 6 1/2 dozen of the other regarding price. Last time I priced it out, Laminate will be 1/5 the cost. As I said, there is some nice Plastic Laminate out there - and your installer is key. Edging the laminate will make all the dif. in the world - you could do the maple like you cabinets. I think you will be shocked at the difference in price the surfaces are - even for a small amount. Personally, I like granite over any of the other surfaces. It''s what we are doing in our VA home. In NC, plastic lam. My friends with corian do not like it. They feel stuck with it b/c it was so expensive. Measure your surface area (do linear feet & square feet calculation) and go price your options. Where to go for granite will vary from location to location. Here it is Lowes. But, it''s geographic specific as Lowes has an arrangement with the large stone quarry based here. It''s cheaper to price out Lowes than the Stone place. Also, there are different grades - don''t get sucked into anything but the basic. Installation may or may not be included (if it is - it usually limited in how many cuts in the granite). Also, and this is weird, the west coast specifications for thickness, etc is different than the east coast. Go with what you geographic area does.

Sinks & facets - sounds like you need to replace them. You have options here - stainless steel (my prefered sink), ceramic cast or ?. Price them out. - start with the builder grade then compare with the medium grade on up. If you go stainless, get one that feels good. To some extent your counter tops will dictate your sink. If you go with granite, most people do an under counter sink. Get some prices to know approx. how much is going to be in the budget - but pick that out last. You need to budget for a plumber as well.

Appliances? Are you replacing any of them?

Island? Do you have room? My island is useless except for a builtin wine rack. It serves as a catch all. But lots of people like them to do a quick eat or if you are going to change appliances - a cooktop.

So, measure, measure - and go to Lowes, Home Depot or your local kitchen place. Get some prices - make your decision based on budget & desires. Always keep in mind, unless you really plan on staying for a long long time, don''t overbuild your neighborhood.

Kitchens are a funny nut. They can cost a couple of thousand. They can cost close to 6 figures. It''s all nice and good to express senitment regarding liking granite - but if that''s your whole budget - may not be an option. Look at your options, price your options - then pull it all together. But, to get you going - compartmentalize first. Buying out the job is the most important thing. You don''t have to get everything from the same place. Some places may have the best product/deal on countertops. Other places the best for cabinets, etc.

Good luck. Go look & have some fun.
 

Catmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
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We are in the process of a kitchen reno right now. We already have ash floors and we kep our cabinets since they were in pretty good shape[oak] so I just finished refinishing them and adding new handles and pulls. Last year we upgraded all the appliances to stainless steel. We also had a microwave that sat on the countertop that we changed to an over the stove model. It is also a convection oven and a range hood. I love the new model and the fact that it cleared up so much counter space. It looks like you have room over your range to do the same thing and it would give you more counter space. We have laminate countertops that are being replaced with granite next Friday[yay!!!]. I know that laminate is cheaper but it does nick and scratch easily. If you are planning on being in your house a long time I would suggest going higher end on the countertops if you can. We ran into a fantastic deal at our stone place. They are having their second sale in 15 years on every slab they have in stock. We are getting our counters at about $45 a square foot. We are also getting a new undermount sink and fixtures as well as new light fixtures. It''s taken us two years but will finally be done in a few weeks. Splitting up the major costs between 2 years helped with the budget for us i.e., appliances one year, countertops the next. We didn''t replace our cabinets though or move or add any new ones.
 

eks6426

Ideal_Rock
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Oh, kitchen renovations are lots of fun...and lots of headaches. Here''s some ideas I came up with looking at your pictures.


Take out the enclosed soffits
Install electric outlets above cabinets (for the Christmas houses) & maybe some up lighting to give your some indirect lighting.
Add crown molding board above cabinets to make the new open area above them look finished
Refinish cabinets including new hardware—replace the doors if you can to get a different look. Maybe a nice cream color to lighten things up? Do some interior renovations such as racks to hold soap bottles or possibly pull out shelves where needed.
Install halogen undercabinet lighting
Keep the old stove if in good condition. Buy a range hood & install over stove or better yet, buy a microwave with a range hood and mount it over the stove—frees up some of your counter space.
Do pergo flooring in the entire area including breakfast area. Maybe a nice golden oak color? You don’t want the cabinets and the floor to be the exact same shade.
Build a raised cabinet for the area where your breakfast bar is now. Your cabinets should be easy to match if you paint with new hardware. Put the cabinet on “feet” so the baseboard heat still comes through. Use regular upper cabinets with glass fronts higher up on the same wall. Leaving a countertop space for party prep.
Replace countertop with whatever your budget allows. If you use solid surfacing get a solid surface sink that matches & mounts under the countertop. This will make your space look bigger and more open since the eye will see the same color for longer.
Tile backsplash if enough funds. If not, just paint for now.


Good luck!
 

Sundial

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I have another sink suggestion if you decide not to go with the Corian integrated sink (which we love in our laundry room by the way). We used a Blanco silgranit granite composite sink in the kitchen and it is the best thing in the world! It doesn''t scratch or stain and always looks clean. The color we chose is anthracite, but there are several different choices.
 

wonka27

Brilliant_Rock
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Fire -

Wow...thanks for all the advice. That is quite a post and full of good info. I''m going to address the issues you brought up. First I do know I can''t lump all this together. It will drive me nuts. We went to Lowes tonight to get a "feel" for prices and product.

Cabinets
I know you''ve given a lot of advice about refinishing or painting, but in the end I think we will just replace them. From what I understand, refacing can cost almost as much as new stuff, unless you DIY...and that just isn''t for me. I''m going to be involved enough in this...painting and helping BIL, so I don''t want to spend a few weeks sanding all night. Unless our end budget will be destroyed by the cabinets, I think we will replace. We want a change in look anyway.

Flooring
Not much thought there yet. Took a quick peak tonight but focused more on the counters and cabinets. Looking at my pictures, do you think it best that the entire room be the same material? Someone mentioned that after I stated that I might split the flooring to create "different spaces". It may be too dramatic, however!

Countertops
We took quite a bit of time looking at this. I expect to need about 40 sq ft of countertop (including breakfast bar). Looking at the numbers, it is pretty expensive (although it appears that the prices listed are installed...and my BIL can do that for us in his whole duty). So I''m not sure of the actual price of the material itself. I''m sure it is not dramatically cheaper. I did see some nice laminate...and if you get the rounded edging, it is hard to tell with not seeing the seams. Lowes had some different brands of material as well. LG has some sort of corian wannabe. Still thinking about it, but tonights trip did help. I did notice the laminate was in "linear feet". Is that just a straight measurement of your countertop? No depth? I wasn''t sure and there were no helpers around (store just opened Saturday...so I''m sure they are getting staffed and situated). I could see us going with a real nice laminate...and then switch out down the road when more $$$ is available (we want to do our bathroom too with the home equity money!!!)

Sink
Not there yet...I feel that is quite contingent on countertops. Most likely SS if we don''t go with a countertop that has that seamless sink in it.

Appliances
We are replacing stove and dishwasher...and adding an above range microwave. Basic stuff...most likely white. I will probably just get freestanding stove and shove it inbetween the countertops!

Now my question is...if I do my own measurements...can they work up the numbers for me. I would obviously want like a final measurement done by them...because I don''t trust myself...but can we work on general ideas for the cabinetry before they finalize things?
 

wonka27

Brilliant_Rock
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The rest of you...thanks for the additional support.

I love the cabinets on "feet" idea...and will look into that to see if it is viable.

We do plan on moving the microwave to above the range.

Sun...I saw a granite composite tonight...seemed like an interesting option. I will read up on them and see what they have to offer!!!
 

Dee*Jay

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Wonka - Linear feet generally means a straight measurement across the length of your countop, which is really 2' feet deep. This is an important point because often granite and other solid surfaces is almost always quoted in in square feet (so one linear foot would be two square feet).
 

belle

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Date: 8/22/2006 10:49:10 PM
Author: wonka27

Now my question is...if I do my own measurements...can they work up the numbers for me. I would obviously want like a final measurement done by them...because I don''t trust myself...but can we work on general ideas for the cabinetry before they finalize things?
absolutely. this is how they generally do it anyway. for the solid surface countertops a small chunk of the price will depend on cut outs (sink, range, soap dispenser..etc) and special angles. so it would be helpful to actually diagram your kitchen on some graph paper as well.
 

fire&ice

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Date: 8/22/2006 10:55:40 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
Wonka - Linear feet generally means a straight measurement across the length of your countop, which is really 2'' feet deep. This is an important point because often granite and other solid surfaces is almost always quoted in in square feet (so one linear foot would be two square feet).
Yeah, precisely. You need to make sure you do both calculations. You can do your own. It''s not rocket science.
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All you need is a tape measurer. Yeah laminate is usually on a linear ft basis. I thought you would have sticker shock regarding the lam. vs granite.
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And, yeah - the key with laminate is to have it properly installed & finished nicely (edged, etc). Although we are replacing the laminate - doing a whole kitchen refit - our laminate has lasted nearly 20 years with no issues. I do use a cutting board & hot plates though. Also, don''t forget that decorating can make a huge difference. In our NC home, we bought lots of way cool stainless utensils. Also, we put a nice plasitic lam in a commercial installation 5 years ago - has held up better than the granite.
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Wonka, I hear you on replacing the cabinets all together. We have looked into it ourselves - one caveat - make sure your cabinets are stock size. We have 10''+ ceilings and as such - built our originial cabinets taller than stock. We decided to replace the doors & paint (our painter quoted 1200.00 - we have average amount of cabinets). Please do price out a custom job. It''s worth it. Also, if your BIL is a contractor, he may be able to get a contractors discount - not sure about Lowes - but most likely at your local Merilat dealer. At the end of the day, it will be worth it to price out having someone paint or refinish your existing & price out new.

Again, price, price then decide where you want to spend the money.
 

wonka27

Brilliant_Rock
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Ok guys...here is my first attempt at diagraming...pretty advanced, huh!?!? BTW...this done on HGTV Kitchen Designer. Limited options, however, good enough to generate a basic idea!!!

jkkitchen1.JPG
 

wonka27

Brilliant_Rock
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View 2

jkkitchen2.JPG
 

wonka27

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New Breakfast Bar Idea...cabinets if I can get it to work...if not a countertop on decorative legs, maybe?

jkkitchen3.JPG
 

wonka27

Brilliant_Rock
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Overhead

jkkitchen4.JPG
 

wonka27

Brilliant_Rock
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Just so you all know...I did measure out the kitchen before...sometimes I just don''t trust myself
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I can always have BIL do it too...I just like the idea of those selling the cabinets measuring...then if something is wrong I can blame them!

Anyway...you guys are so knowledgable!!! So start giving me suggestions for decent cabinetry. I know and will price things out...but what have you guys had success with or have you heard of success. That garden web...everyone has different experiences. Most everyone does seem to think upgrading to plywood is the way to go with the HD/Lowes type stuff.

How about countertop. Fire...I saw this WilsonArt stuff. Really nice...I was impressed. Slightly textured...and with a rounded edge you don''t even see the seams. And the price was easily less than half of the cheaper corian.
 

Dee*Jay

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Wow Wonka -- looks great!

One question: Isn''t the new breakfast bar where the old one was? If so, what about the baseboard heater?
 

belle

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well done wonka! very cool. i like your breakfast bar thingy turned usable space cabineterrrific idea!
36.gif
that looks great.
for the countertops, are you referring to the wilsonart ''hd'' laminate? i know they have a couple of different products but i was really impressed with the ''hd''. the colors were very nice and that texture was pretty cool.
 

fire&ice

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Yeah, always have the dealers measure. Your measurements are just for getting started. Kitchen/bath stores may measure for free. Lowes may charge a fee that can be credited towards purchase.

What you pictured looks very clean and gives you more cabinet/counter space.
 

wonka27

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Thanks for the great feedback!!!

The baseboard heat is still there. I put the cabinets in just to get a counter in. Looking at it, I''d really like to do it, however.

Here''s a question. If we buy our cabinets...say...from Lowes...do you think a cabinetmaker could make matching custom cabinets that would stand on legs for baseboard heating. Instead of having a 3 ft cabinet, I''d have 2ft raised cabinets on legs. That may allow for heat to get from the heater. Any thoughts?
 

fire&ice

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What''s going on in the front on picture in the right hand corner? Is that a door? If not, it''s wasted space and you should put counter cabinets all the way around to the new breakfast bar. If it is a door - perhaps some less deep shelves.
 

eks6426

Ideal_Rock
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Your pictures are great. I like the cabinet pantry by the fridge rather than the counter top.

You should ask Lowes about the leg option for their cabinets. The make your cabinets look like furniture trend is alive and well and they might have some good options for you.
 

wonka27

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Fire -

Both openings on the breakfast bar wall refer to openings to different areas. The smaller one leads to the small area where side entrance door and basement door are. The larger near the open area for our table leads to the living room and hallway. I left those dynamics off because I felt they weren''t usable and would have just drove me nuts.

Island -

When I talk to Lowes/HD and anywhere else, I''ll show them pictures and see if that is a feasable option! I think it would be great. I might call the heating guy to see if he thinks putting cabinets over it would cause an issue.
 

fire&ice

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Do you have flex duct running under your house to this vent? You can not cover it up - even putting in a vent in your cabinets *could* be problematic. If you have flex duct, all you need to do is to pull the flex to an area after the cabinet and cut another vent. It shouldn''t be that big a deal.
 

wonka27

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No...that is baseboard hot water from our oil burner. You don''t think there is anyway?
emsad.gif
 

fire&ice

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Oh, I completely missed the baseboard. Duh. I don''t know. I''m not familar with this type of heat. I''d ask your heating and cooling guy. It''s probably almost time for servicing for the season. Have him come and pick his brain. Logic is telling me - and I really don''t know - that even raising the cabinet will be problematic in terms of heat output.
 

eks6426

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Oh, I didn''t realize it was a liquid heat. I thought it was electric. Here''s a totally off the wall idea, and would cost you some money, but what about having the pipes run under your flooring through-out the kitchen...That would give you radiant flooring and no baseboard heater to deal with. Not sure if it''s feasible but I love houses with warm floors and not having to deal with that radiator would be good.

If that''s not possible, I think if you have legs tall enough to lift the cabinets at least a foot or more above the heater it would work. I''d put some sort of metal reflector under the cabinets to make sure they don''t get too warm.
 

wonka27

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Island...maybe that isn''t a bad idea. It can be like a buffet counter with maybe 12-18 inch cabinets attached to the countertop. That would be plenty far away from the heater to get in the way, I believe. I''d get some storage at least.

While I know I have to shop around...I was at HD today and they have a pretty good deal.

If I pay for a professional measuring between 8/24 and 9/10 I get a 10% off coupon for my cabinetry to be used by 10/29. When I buy the cabinetry, I then get a 10% off coupon for appliances, installed countertops, and sinks to be used by 1/7/07. So there is a lot of savings there from what I can tell.

Additionally, if I buy 10 cabinets, I get free cabinet hardware or sink base. If I buy 18...which may be a stretch, not sure yet...I get both the hardware and the free sink base.

Now...does anyone know about the quality of Kraftmaid, American Woodmark, or Thomasville. The gentleman said the nice thing about Kraftmaid and Thomasville is that you can double upgrade to all plywood construction. No particleboard anywhere in them. Opinions would help :)
 

moremoremore

Ideal_Rock
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I''m no expert, from what what I''ve seen and read, I would not hesitate to buy Kraftmaid or Thomasville. The only thing I''ve *heard* (not experienced) is that some of the painted finishes of the Thomasville (as in the ivory, etc...but might be true of all cabinets with such finish) is that they tend to chip and peel? I have no idea....But I still love that look...

Anyway, follow your instincts and you''ll end up with a great looking project...After shots PLEASE! :)
 

wonka27

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On the gardenweb forum, I see a lot of horror stories with Kraftmaid...but it seems to stem from non-upgrades. I feel that I''d want the full wood construction, so they may be slapped together a little better. Pictures for sure...just give me about 4-6 months yet
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fire&ice

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We looked at the Thomasville cabinets. The have a very nice Arts & Crafts (Misson) style. Seems like very nice wood and construction.

Do you have a Merilat dealer? We bought w/ contractor's discount.

Also, check out Lowe's on pricing. They all offer some deal.
 

wonka27

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Merilat - I will have to look at their website and see if there is a dealer near us.

I will check with Lowes as well. After some research I found that Thomasville (HD) and Diamond (Lowes) are exactly the same thing. Just different names stuck on the same product to "confuse" the consumer.
 
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