Uncertified diamond to be grade by seller who is GIA gemologist

[saphire]

I was offered an pair of .86 G/VS2 round diamond studs for $6100. At first seller said G/SI1 but more like VS2. She got it at a trade, that''s why price is excellent and cert is meaningless and more meaningful if certified by store...the stone is less than 1 carat, and for earrings, who is going to look closely, so she did not certify them. She said she is willing to take the stones out of the prongs to give me the measurements and check that it''s not chipped. She is a certified gemologist and can certify the studs for me but the certificate I get is from the store. She said the Rappaport prices for diamond went up 2x this year, and diamond prices are on the rise. A pair of this size would cost me $9k if certified.

She quoted me the following:

.90 H/SI GIA certified costs 10k
1 carat H/SI GIA certified costs 12k

I thought GIA report at most costs $500, why the big difference between certified and certified diamond? The fact that she is GIA gemologist, should I trust her grading that the studs are G/VS2? If they are, why would she not send them to be certified and sell at 9k? The studs look pretty and white next to my unmounte H/SI diamond.

I went on internet and look up GIA certified G/VS2 and they come out to around 3k each, so why would I pay same price for uncertified diamond. The color is very white compare to another uncertfied I/SI diamond that I have.

The characteristics of the studs are: 6.1 millimeter, .86 carat each mounted in 4 prongs white gold, G/VS2 color.

What do you think?

 

[strmrdr]

Would you trust someone who quoted this:

.90 H/SI GIA certified costs 10k
1 carat H/SI GIA certified costs 12k

To grade your diamonds?

 

[DiamondExpert]

You''re swimming in waters with a swift cross current, and you don''t appear to be a good swimmer - get out before you spend your $ unwisely!

Take some time to educate yourself about what to look for, and look extensively at local stones to get a "feel" for what you like, AND be able to identify/recognize what those characteristics (cut {light performance}, color and clarity) are.

You may find a local jeweler you can trust, or you may choose to purchase on line...either way, remember knowledge is power...shop from a position of strength.

Take your time!

Good luck!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/9/2008 12:29:31 AM
Author: DiamondExpert
You''re swimming in waters with a swift cross current, and you don''t appear to be a good swimmer - get out before you spend your $ unwisely!

Take some time to educate yourself about what to look for, and look extensively at local stones to get a ''feel'' for what you like, AND be able to identify/recognize what those characteristics (cut {light performance}, color and clarity) are.

You may find a local jeweler you can trust, or you may choose to purchase on line...either way, remember knowledge is power...shop from a position of strength.

Take your time!

Good luck!

Ditto, good luck.

 

[risingsun]

Even if she is a gemologist, she can't certify the diamonds for you. They need to be evaluated by GIA to have a grading report. Better yet, take them to an independent appraiser and get an unbiased opinion. Do a diamond search on this site and see what you come up with in comparison. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. The least reliable report, IMO, is from your jeweler.

 

[Splinter]

Saphire, I wouldn''t trust that salesperson at all. DiamondExpert gives great advice, take some time to learn about stones first. If you find anything you like, post about it here for honest opinions. I know I''ve learned a ton from this forum and feel I won''t ever get ripped off on a diamond purchase now that I know about Pricescope.

 

[denverappraiser]

Here's GIA’s fee structure.

On an 0.86ct stone it’s either $59 or $78 depending on which service you take, plus shipping if you don’t happen to live in sunny Carlsbad.

Do a little test. Use the utility at the top of the page to search for a diamond. Search for 0.85-0.88cts/G/VS2. Ignore everything other than GIA & AGSL graded stones. You’ll find about a dozen stones priced in the range of $3600. So far that makes a pair for $6100 look pretty good, right? Let's proceed.

Now modify your search. Look for the same size range but H/SI2 and again ignore all non-GIA/AGSL results. That also produces a dozen or so offers but these are about $2600 each. That $1000/stone difference is in the grading. The same test with H/SI1 results in offers at about $3000/stone.

This is why people like GIA services and why they’re worth their $59 and to say that their opinion is ‘meaningless’ is simply not correct. It largely answers at least this grading question and this is a very useful service. Far be it from me to question the grading on a stone I’ve never seen or to question a grader I’ve never met but there is a huge conflict of interest in her asking that you to take her word for it. This means that the real question on the table is HER credibility. It’s a little hard to tell how much of what you said came straight from her and how much was filtered through you but several things in your paragraph give me pause.

1) ‘Certified gemologist’ is a trademark of AGS and it’s specifically NOT a credential awarded by GIA. ALL CG’s are listed by state on AGS’s website and you might want to check to see if she’s listed if she has used this term to describe herself. The choices here are that she’s a valid CG, she’s misrepresenting her credentials, or you’re misquoting her. Obviously the difference is important if you’re trying to assess her credibility.

2) Your intended usage in earrings has NOTHING to do with the grading of the stone. This is, perhaps, a reason not to buy VS goods but this is your issue, not the graders. How closely people look at your ears is not a grading call. Are they VS2s or not?

3) It would be easy to buy a pair like that for less than $9000 in most markets, even when you consider the $118 in lab fees. You already knew this but, more importantly, SHE also already knows this. Again, the key question here is not one of grading, it’s HER credibility and whether you can rely on what she’s telling you.

4) If she hasn’t checked for damage and chipping, how did she determine them to be VS2s?

‘Certified’ is not what makes a beautiful stone beautiful. On this point I agree with her. Buy the diamond, not the paper and the lab information is intended to reinforce the confidence you are placing in your jeweler, not to replace it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Lynnchee]

Date: 6/8/2008 11:46:39 PM
Author:saphire
I was offered an pair of .86 G/VS2 round diamond studs for $6100. At first seller said G/SI1 but more like VS2. She got it at a trade, that''s why price is excellent and cert is meaningless and more meaningful if certified by store...the stone is less than 1 carat, and for earrings, who is going to look closely, so she did not certify them. She said she is willing to take the stones out of the prongs to give me the measurements and check that it''s not chipped. She is a certified gemologist and can certify the studs for me but the certificate I get is from the store. She said the Rappaport prices for diamond went up 2x this year, and diamond prices are on the rise. A pair of this size would cost me $9k if certified.

She quoted me the following:

.90 H/SI GIA certified costs 10k
1 carat H/SI GIA certified costs 12k

I thought GIA report at most costs $500, why the big difference between certified and certified diamond? The fact that she is GIA gemologist, should I trust her grading that the studs are G/VS2? If they are, why would she not send them to be certified and sell at 9k? The studs look pretty and white next to my unmounte H/SI diamond.

I went on internet and look up GIA certified G/VS2 and they come out to around 3k each, so why would I pay same price for uncertified diamond. The color is very white compare to another uncertfied I/SI diamond that I have.

The characteristics of the studs are: 6.1 millimeter, .86 carat each mounted in 4 prongs white gold, G/VS2 color.

What do you think?

I think the salesperson is referring to purchasing the actual reports that come with the stone. Some vendors, from what I''ve heard, will sell a diamond without their GIA/AGS report, and if you want the actual report, they will charge you for it. Of course, any vendor that will do that should see you running for the hills.

There are a couple threads avaiable here for certified vs non certified diamonds that you may find useful.

Whether it''s GIA or AGS certified, diamond grading is still subjective. Even experts can disagree with the color and clarity of a diamond if it falls in the middle of a category. Even though it''s subjective, it''s still the opinion of an expert. These people dedicate their lives to diamonds. You can''t totally discredit them. But it''s good to have peace of mind that you''re getting a quality stone.

Does this store your shopping at have a return policy? Whether your diamond is certified or not, I would still take it in an independant appraiser to make sure you are getting what you''re paying for. $59 or $85 dollars is worth your time and peace of mind.

I hope you had as much fun diamond hunting as I did. Good Luck!

 

[dennyr]

Besides getting accurate color and clarity with the GIA grading report, you will also get information on the cut of the diamond. GIA reports issued after January 1, 2006 for round diamonds will provide a GIA Cut Grade along with various cut parameters. This will tell you even more about the quality of the diamonds.

If there is a big difference between the “certified" price and “non-certified” price, it is not solely due to the price the GIA charges for the grading report. Most likely, there are color, clarity, and cut difference between the advertised quality and what the GIA would probably grade. The same holds true for price differences between GIA and EGL graded diamonds. If the price difference is about a color grade different, you can expect the color to be off about a color grade on the EGL report.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 6/9/2008 11:59:11 AM
Author: dennyr

Besides getting accurate color and clarity with the GIA grading report, you will also get information on the cut of the diamond. GIA reports issued after January 1, 2006 for round diamonds will provide a GIA Cut Grade along with various cut parameters. This will tell you even more about the quality of the diamonds.

If there is a big difference between the “certified'' price and “non-certified” price, it is not solely due to the price the GIA charges for the grading report. Most likely, there are color, clarity, and cut difference between the advertised quality and what the GIA would probably grade. The same holds true for price differences between GIA and EGL graded diamonds. If the price difference is about a color grade different, you can expect the color to be off about a color grade on the EGL report.

Welcome aboard dennyr, This is the first post of yours I have seen and it looks like you are going to fit in well! Nice to have you here.

Wink

 

[saphire]

I believe many sellers use the term "Certified GIA Gemologist" if they graduated from GIA school. The stones look good to me in term of color, and usually one can spot SI clarity because many inclusions. VS2 usually has less inclusions.

I could be over paranoid since I know more about diamond facts and different certificates. My engagement ring was bought without a certificate claimed to be 1 carat, G/VS1, and I went to another jeweler who confirmed that color is G/VS clarity.

Now that I know about GIA certificate, it''s hard for me to buy without a certificate when many jewelers out there would have sent the stone they know for sure about color and clarity to GIA to sell for more $.

Let me get her name and check out on AGS site to see if she really is a GIA Gemologist. I am willing to pay the price w/o the certificate if I can trust the jeweler, but her comments on certificate is meaningless and that she can certify the diamond for me worries me.