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Starting to wonder if I''m going overboard....

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niceice21

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Ok, let me just lay it out there. Those of you who have read any of my previous posts know that I will soon be in the market for a diamond for my future fiance. I''ve still got awhile, but I thought I would get started early trying to learn what I could so that I would''nt get ripped off and that my girl could proudly show off to her friends (get compliments, etc....yes this is important to me, call me materialistic if you want and it might sound kinda childish but I''d rather her friends be jealous than to walk away thinking I''m a cheapskate, sue me
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). So anyway, I found this site and started my learning adventure...I''ve pretty much learned something new almost every day. First it was the 4 c''s, then came symmetry and polish, then came table and depth, then crown and pavilion angles and just when I thought I knew what to look for proportion wise, I learned that even the slightest difference in proportions will affect the fire, brilliance, etc. (I just learned about how increasing the lgl and star length with change the amount of "fire" in the diamond. I read a 4 page thread that involved Jonathon from GOG, John Pollard(Quixote at the time), Wink, Strmrdr and some skeptics circa 2004 that discussed this topic and whether or not GEMEX was a gimmick...actually kinda curious if any of their opinions have changed since that thread.)

Basically, I feel like my head''s gonna explode! I tried venturing out to look at some diamonds in person a couple of weeks again, and that led to my first post about the HoF vendor who basically told me to throw all of my newly acquired knowledge out the window and to go with them (they wanted 8300 for a .85 E VS2 and basically told me that I''d have to settle for an "inferior" diamond for my price range of 5500-6000). So, I''ve kinda made it my goal to prove this guy wrong...but I am starting to wonder if I''m going too far with this. I started reading a different thread about light performance that dealt with everything from the light rays used to the placement of the lense of the testing machine, to god knows what...I couldn''t follow the conversation (it was between Gary, Serg, and someone else, I really haven''t been around long enough to know who all of these guys are!
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)

I guess if I can sum up what I''ve gathered from all of this is that in many cases, it comes down to personal preference in regards to light performance, and that while there are ranges to shoot for as far as table %, depth, CA, PA, lgl, star length, etc. some things will look better to different people...am I right on this? I originally thought that by going off these numbers, looking at the ASET, Idealscope, HCA, and Hearts images I would be able to find what I was looking for and it all seemed so simple...but the more I''ve learned the more questions I''ve got.

I was a little perplexed by the thread about the diamonds going dark in the mall store lighting because this didn''t seem right to me...I figured if I had a colorless or highly near colorless stone that was ideally cut, symmetrical, etc it would light up anywhere, anytime and put other stones to shame...but aparently this isn''t the case? So now I kinda feel like I''m back at square one...I know that my girl would like a stone that is near a carat and looks nice...she doesn''t know anything about diamonds and she really has only seen diamonds like the Leo that is offered in the mall jewelry store that I would normally shop at. I think she like the Leo with all of its little flashes, so that is what I think I''m gonna look for...this would require a slightly longer lgl and star length, wouldn''t it?

Sorry this is so long, I just felt like I had to get it all out there and I didn''t want to make a bunch of new threads on topics that have already been covered ad nauseum, I realize this forum has been around a long time and there are new members asking more questions every day.
 

Lula

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Yes, niceice21, if you want a diamond that has a lot of smaller sparkles, look for a stone with longer lower girdles. These stones have more "pinflash" than chunky flash. I''ve owned one, and they are lovely and look wonderful under bright lights.

James Allen, Whiteflash, Good old Gold, and other online vendors carry stones with longer lower girdles. You are going to want the lgf% to be at least 79% (the arrows will look very thin). Remember GIA rounds their numbers, so while the report may say 80% lgf, because of the rounding the lgfs may be lower. Look at the photo of the stone and the IS and judge the lgf% by the thinness of the arrows.

You''ll want to post the specs of any stones you find with the longer lgf''s because the rest of the proportions and angles need to compliment the longer lgfs.

You can also look at the branded cuts that favor pinflash: Good old Gold sells Solasfera diamonds. This will give you the look you like, too, but it is a branded cut so they are more expensive.
 

Ellen

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Hi nice,

I think it's very nice you want your girl to be proud of her ring, nothing wrong with that.
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And I sympathize, it can get rather daunting trying to learn everything, but from the sound of it, you have done a fine job, you get it.
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As to your last question/statement, yes, longer lgf will give a more splintery sparkle, and it will appear to have more. Now, about very well cut stones going dark, that's just a phenomenon that occurs. Don't look at it as bad, it's not, and trust me, a well cut stone will truly blow her friends away!

If you'd like, I'd be happy to help you find something. If so, just let me know.
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4ever

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Ok, now take some deep calming breaths.

It''s good to be an educated buyer - you know what to look for and when your getting ripped off. However, I''m going to say yes, if your starting to get too confused or stressed, this is over kill.

Have you looked at any diamonds in person to see what you like the look of, rather then just the stats?

How bout picking a vender you like the look of and trust, giving them your requirements (Near to a ct as possible, awsome cut, clarity range, colour range etc) and let them do the work and find you a few stones for you to consider within your budget so you can desided which looks best to you from there.

Remember, if she knows little to nothing about diamonds, she''s not going to question why you chose the diamond with X depth and Y colour over the one with Z fluro and B pavillion angle etc.

The sience of diamonds is important, but so is the art of it so use your eyes a little more and your brain a little less.
 

ajoeschmo

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Niceice, you are where I was 2 weeks ago. To make a long story short and after doing a lot of research and price comparisons, I''ve looked at the HoF, the Peerless diamond, the Leo (which if you compare it to the Peerless at Jared, you will see the Peerless is noticeably better) in person. I compared them with an AGS TrueHearts diamond from James Allen at the stores TODAY (you can find my thread talking about this very issue) and the ideal cut on the TrueHearts is as good as the name-brands (even slightly better than the Peerless which I loved) but significantly cheaper and no tax. Do yourself a favor and buy a clean 1ct stone from JA using the PS discount and within the 30 days you have to return it, take it to stores and compare it side-by-side with a HoF and Peerless and then see if you''re not getting a better stone for a cheaper price. That''s what I did, and I''m now a believer.
 

Moh 10

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Buying an excellent round at an excellent price from an excellent vendor is simple compared to any other shape.

Go to the top of this screen and click on PRICES.
Select SEARCH BY CUT.
ENTER:
ROUND
CARAT 0.8 – 0.99
CUT RANK EXCELLENT - EXCELLENT
COLOR E – F
CLARITY VS1 – VS2
LAB GIA AGS (Uncheck OTHER)
GO

I did this and it found 22 diamonds.
They are priced from $3855 for an 0.816 ct F VS2 to $6593 for a 0.91 ct E VS2.
All are from Good Old Gold, Whiteflash or James Allen, all excellent vendors.

All are going to look stunning, so pick the biggest one, or the cheapest one or one in the middle, or whatever.

If you want , start picking through them further for the star length, preferred inclusion location, AGS ONLY, fluorescence, spread, or whatever preference you have.

Or if you want a bigger diamond or less expensive one or want to change the color or clarity, change the above search criteria.
Just keep the cut excellent.
Enjoy the safari.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 8/11/2009 6:51:16 PM
Author: Moh 10
Buying a round is simple.

Go to the top of this screen and click on PRICES.
Select SEARCH BY CUT.
ENTER:
ROUND
CARAT 0.8 – 0.99
CUT RANK EXCELLENT - EXCELLENT
COLOR E – F
CLARITY VS1 – VS2
LAB GIA AGS (Uncheck OTHER)
GO

I did this and it found 22 diamonds.
They are priced from $3855 for an 0.816 ct F VS2 to $6593 for a 0.91 ct E VS2.
All are from Good Old Gold, Whiteflash or James Allen, all reliable vendors.

All are going to look stunning.
If you want , start picking through them further for the star length, preferred inclusion location, AGS ONLY, fluorescence, spread, or whatever preference you have.
haha...ditto! You have to sift through the JA stones, though, because some are better than others. WF ACAand GOG H&A stones are the easiest.
 

Lula

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Date: 8/11/2009 6:54:35 PM
Author: Ellen
Ok, I was just browsing, and found this one. Right up your alley, and apparently in your price range. Got so excited I had to post, feel free to ignore!
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Need to ask if eyeclean.


http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/5353/


Oooh, another!


http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/5355/

Great work, Ellen! Those are two beauties!

niceice21, the stones Ellen found will be full of sparkle and pinflash.

I forget what your budget and carat/clarity/color preferences are. Would these work with your budget/preferences?

ETA: Oh, wait, I see your budget is five to six grand. You should have no problem finding a gorgeous stone.
 

niceice21

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
52
Thanks for your input so far Ellen and MOH and others...the diamond you linked to does indeed look nice Ellen...I'm not quite at the point where I need links to stones yet, I have done a little browsing myself (through pricescope's search engine and on some other vendor's sites) to see what's currently available, but thank you for the time and effort of finding one so quickly! I've noticed that GOG runs slightly higher in their prices than say JA and Whiteflash, and really it all depends on what I decide I'm looking for proportion wise and once I finally decide if I want to stay within the F and G range or if I want to go down to H. I know that she doesnt need exactly a carat so that is not a sticking point. I guess I just wanted to get some opinions on what I'm doing right or wrong so far in my search and to see if I'm starting to come to the right conclusions on what I'm learning about cuts.

Edit: Thanks sarap! Yeah, both of those stones are lovely and to be truthful, I havent exactly narrowed my decision down enough...like I said I've still got awhile before I need a stone, I'm still in my learning stage (and saving stage!
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) But right now, I'm leaning f-g, vs1-si1, .9-1.05, ideal cut, h&a (or near, realize the longer lgl will produce clefts in the hearts), exc polish, etc.
 

Ellen

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24,430
No problem nice, as I said, just wanted to throw them out. Good luck on your search, you are on the right track!


And thanks sara!
 

Lula

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Joined
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Messages
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I have read all those old threads, too, niceice21, and they will set your mind spinning.

I think you''ve absorbed enough to know that even within the small world of super-ideals, people have preferences about the "look" of the sparkle and fire.

You''ve done your research; now what''s left is to narrow your search and choose a stone from a vendor with a good return policy. This is mental insurance for you -- so when you receive the stone you can take the time you need to live with it and test its performance in a variety of light sources, and if you are unhappy with the stone, you can exchange it.

Most likely you have noticed the many posts by gentlemen such as yourself who have spent hours of time searching for the perfect stone, and worried about it living up to their expectations, and then the final post from them with pictures of a beautiful ring and a happy fiancee and a successful proposal.

That could be you! Visualize success!!!
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Moh 10

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If you try to learn everything you won''t buy anything.
 

Lula

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Date: 8/11/2009 7:24:42 PM
Author: Moh 10
If you try to learn everything you won''t buy anything.

Ditto!! Well said, Moh.
 

Allison D.

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Date: 8/11/2009 6:35:29 PM
Author:niceice21

I guess if I can sum up what I've gathered from all of this is that in many cases, it comes down to personal preference in regards to light performance, and that while there are ranges to shoot for as far as table %, depth, CA, PA, lgl, star length, etc. some things will look better to different people...am I right on this? I originally thought that by going off these numbers, looking at the ASET, Idealscope, HCA, and Hearts images I would be able to find what I was looking for and it all seemed so simple...but the more I've learned the more questions I've got.
Nice, you're absolutely on track!
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The point of the knowledge is to help inform you about the things that actually affect the diamond's appearance (sparkle, etc.) and its market price. It's to give you information to help guide you as you make your choices so you know how to make reasonable comparisons.

Once armed with this knowledge, it's still a matter of personal preference. Knowing what impacts those preferences can help you better nail down where you can most comfortable make adjustments to prioritize that which is most important to you while staying in budget.

The point of the info isn't to tell you what to like or what you should like; it's to help you understand *why* your eyes like what they like, how to adjust those elements to maximize your preferences, and how competitively a stone is priced.

Knowledge is a wonderful thing, but don't get sucked into analysis paralysis. The information is merely a tool to help you make the right choice for you.
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You sound like you've learned well; now put that info to good use to help you ENJOY finding a diamond!
 

Rockdiamond

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HI Niceice21- Congratulaitons on your upcoming engagment!

I can totally empathize with a lot of your experiences.
The seller of HoF was clearly going to steer you in that direction- by using a bulldozer. Shame.

I hope you did at least get some visual feeling for the diamond. I hope you get to see other, well cut diamonds.
Visual. For me, that''s really the key word.

I think 4ever gave some excellent advice.

To put it in a nutshell, my position is that your eyes are going to be the final arbiter- even if it''s interpreting the ASET/IS images. If your eyes are the judge, use them to judge the diamond, or at least photos and videos. In looking at photos and videos, you will at least have some visual frame of reference.

If you want to just go EX/EX/EX you''re going to get a great looking stone, no one is debating that. I have seen many people here say that this is the safest approach.
But how about if you saw a VG that looked better to you?
Going on visual characteristics alone, many people that love diamonds will choose the less "ideal" cut diamond in a fair percentage of cases.
You might just be one of those.

The size of the diamond is an important aspect to many people buying.
If getting a stone that is less technically perfect, yet more visually appealing, you may be able to get her a larger stone- and size counts.

Another huge consideration is her "color tolerance". If she is a person who can easily see color in an H, you''ve got to go totally colorless.
Many people will actually prefer a J to a D, if it was only based on the visual aspects.

If she would love an I or J color, you''re going to save a bundle over a D-E-F.

I respect Garry and Serg, and others here who study diamonds to very precise degrees. Luckily for me, judging diamonds has always been something that comes naturally.
You look at the diamond.
Trust your eyes.

Relax, looking at diamonds should be fun!
 

TripleG

Shiny_Rock
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My FI Spent over a year educating himself and slowly getting in to the process of picking out a diamond. We found PS after he had done the purchase. Fortunately he did the right homework and picked out a gorgeous diamond that we purchased from Blue Nile. It definitely sounds like you are on the right track in your homework. As the others said just take it slow, since you arent in a rush things will come to you and getting the diamonds in to natural lighting I think is important as well. I will say my ring is a 0.86 RB, F, VVS1, Ex, Ex. My ring size is 5 and that size is very good to me, so see if you can find out your girlfriends size as well to give you an idea of what type of diamond size would be best for her. Also think of what type of setting she may like, if you are putting it in to a halo it will also look much bigger with the side stones, so it may be an opportunity to go with a smaller stone but better quality as well. I personally think the fact you spent all this time researching she will be so impressed and honored that you did so much research that the ultimate diamond will be perfect no matter what you choose. I never would have thought for me color mattered, and now after getting a colorless when comparing to even a G color I can see the color difference so I know my wedding band needs to stay colorless. As you have seen it ends up being personal preference, but as we can provide suggestions only you will know your future wife the best as to what will really suit her. Again, go for quality, take your time and know you are on the right track, just make your own mind up and definitely dont let the B&M stores pressure you in to anything. There are facts of diamond quality and such, but ultimately you have to go with what you think will be the best choice.

Good Luck!
 

FireMonkey

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Date: 8/11/2009 7:24:42 PM
Author: Moh 10
If you try to learn everything you won''t buy anything.


Too true. My research re: DSLR upgrade is nearing the one year mark. I call it ''Paralysis by Analysis''.
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Niceice21, your self education will pay off handsomely. You''ll be able to pick the perfect stone when you''re ready. Good luck!
 

Jj08

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Joined
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hang in there! i think most of us go through the very same thing. you have a great community here on PS to help you through. i''ve recently taken the plunge and purchased a stone after 8 months of research and i still feel that i learn something every time i log on.

good luck!
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 8/11/2009 11:07:16 PM
Author: FireMonkey


Date: 8/11/2009 7:24:42 PM
Author: Moh 10
If you try to learn everything you won't buy anything.


Too true. My research re: DSLR upgrade is nearing the one year mark. I call it 'Paralysis by Analysis'.
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Niceice21, your self education will pay off handsomely. You'll be able to pick the perfect stone when you're ready. Good luck!
These are great points.

It's very important that buyers acquaint themselves with certain vital aspects- such as color shape, clarity and of course cut.
However where I sometimes differ with many here is that I feel the subtle aspects of cut must be learned in person. This is not all that difficult to impart if you have diamonds in from of you.
This makes the learning of certain technical aspects unnecessary- and indeed- you'll have different results.
 
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