Question about Whiteflash problem

[LE]

Last time that I posted, I had chosen a stone from Whiteflash over one from Good Old Gold. These stones were both shipped to my appraiser. After some problems that FF has had with Whiteflash after deciding to have the loose stone insured and sent to Leon (instead of back to WF for setting), I''m doubting my decision to work with them. I liked the AGS ideal stone that I was going to purchase. Is it wrong to choose a diamond based on my interaction with the company?

I recently contacted GOG about another piece, and they were more than helpful. Would you base your decision on which company you would rather support?

 

[shminbabe]

I guess the bottom line is that you have to feel personally comfortable with the company with whom you choose to do business. For one reason or another, different people connect in different ways.

It''s no secret that Whiteflash, GOG, ERD, James Allen, Wink, Blue Nile and even Tiffany

(to name a few) get high marks from our forum. I think it''s just a matter of personal preference. You should do business with the company you feel good about.

I like Whiteflash and am about to rave about my recent purchase in another post. When I was looking around for a stone, I left a message for Jon at GOG and my call wasn''t returned. WF was on top of things for me and so that is where I ended up taking my business. However, if I was a rich girl and could go on diamond shopping for more (more and more!) I would definitely look around at WF, GOG and the others.

I had a good rapport with my WF sales person and that mattered to me.

Good luck!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/12/2007 11:20:06 PM
Author:LE
Last time that I posted, I had chosen a stone from Whiteflash over one from Good Old Gold. These stones were both shipped to my appraiser. After some problems that FF has had with Whiteflash after deciding to have the loose stone insured and sent to Leon (instead of back to WF for setting), I''m doubting my decision to work with them. I liked the AGS ideal stone that I was going to purchase. Is it wrong to choose a diamond based on my interaction with the company?

I recently contacted GOG about another piece, and they were more than helpful. Would you base your decision on which company you would rather support?

Whats the issue with WF?
No its not wrong to go who you are most comfortable with.
Which company I want to support is a part of every purchase I make.
ie: avoid China goods, buy USA when I can etc.

 

[bettymac]

My experience with WF was very similar to Shiminbabe''s. They were the first vendor to return my phone call and that is why I ordered from them. My transaction ended up to be an extremely positive one. My sales associate followed up with me every step of the way. She was friendly, helpful and understanding of my situation. She will be the first person I call the next time I "need" something that involves diamonds.

Having said that, had my experience not been so great, I would not have hesitated to go to one of the other vendors recommended here on Pricescope. From all that I have read, GOG, James Allen, et. al are all excellent vendors. As it turned out for me, WF exceeded all my expectations for customer service.

 

[mrssalvo]

nothing wrong with choosing the vendor whom you feel most comfortable with at all.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/12/2007 11:20:06 PM
Author:LE

Last time that I posted, I had chosen a stone from Whiteflash over one from Good Old Gold. These stones were both shipped to my appraiser. After some problems that FF has had with Whiteflash after deciding to have the loose stone insured and sent to Leon (instead of back to WF for setting), I'm doubting my decision to work with them. I liked the AGS ideal stone that I was going to purchase. Is it wrong to choose a diamond based on my interaction with the company?

Hello Le. We are sorry to hear of your frustration.I inquired first thing this morning to see what occurred and would like to clarify the situation on the forum.

The stone was sent to your appraiser on 8/28 and we were delighted to hear it was your diamond of choice. After a week we had not received forms or payment, at which time your boyfriend explained his situation.On 9/6 we discussed that normal policy doesn’t permit a diamond to sit with an appraiser for over a week (it had been out 10 days).We value your business and extended the grace period through Monday.When we had not heard anything Tuesday we emailed to let your boyfriend know we must recall the diamond but can still work with him on financing:We realize he does not want it recalled but for insurance reasons it can’t stay with the appraiser indefinitely and we can't release it without payment. We will be delighted to send it to LM for setting once paid for, but during the interim it must remain at Whiteflash. Your salesperson spoke with your boyfriend this morning and we have extended the period to Monday again, at which time it will have been off-property for three weeks.We hope this will help.We also appreciate your appraiser’s support; he knows you love this diamond and has graciously kept it secure on his premises for us.

I hope this helps to understand.We sincerely want to work with you and remain willing to listen and assist with all reasonable options.

 

[strmrdr]

3 weeks is a really really really long time for a vendor too keep a stone off the market.
above and beyond in my opinion.
It sounds like the holdup may be on your BFs end, but there is always 2 sides too a story.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 9/13/2007 3:13:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
3 weeks is a really really really long time for a vendor too keep a stone off the market.

above and beyond in my opinion.

It sounds like the holdup may be on your BFs end, but there is always 2 sides too a story.

Agreed. You might want to have a talk with your boyfriend...

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 9/13/2007 3:13:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
3 weeks is a really really really long time for a vendor too keep a stone off the market.
above and beyond in my opinion.
It sounds like the holdup may be on your BFs end, but there is always 2 sides too a story.

I''m with strm and neatfreak. To have a stone sit for 3 weeks at an appraiser without payment is really kind of ridiculous and I think Whiteflash has every right to recall the stone. The fact that they''re extending their limit again for your boyfriend proves that Whiteflash is the type of company that will go above and beyond for their customers.

However, I hope everything gets worked out so we can see another Leon Mege and (I''m assuming) WF ACA beauty.

 

[LE]

I agree that three weeks is a very long time. Basically, we wanted to have insurance on the stone BEFORE taking it from the appraiser. I don''t want to go into too many details or hurt anyone, but the appraiser is just putting the paperwork for the stone together for my boyfriend today (because BF went there to ask in person). We thought that would only take a few days.

I understand why WF would need the stone back, and that''s fine. I wish that I would''ve known that when the stone was sent so that I could have had the appraiser do the paperwork immediately when I looked at the stone and while I was at his office. We were shocked that, on Monday, WF wanted the stone shipped back that day. That''s why we agreed to give WF any amount of money as a deposit so that we could keep the stone in the city until the appraiser could finish the paperwork for Jewelers Mutual. Again, we didn''t feel comfortable taking the stone without insurance.

We did have a great experience with our sales person at WF; she was very understanding about our time constraints (we''re both physicians that are still in training and BF is spending over fifteen hours in surgery per day). I just wish that communication would have been better. I''m happy that BF resolved the situation, but I hate that he had to take the day off to do it, which is frowned upon by our upper level physicians. I will probably shop with Whiteflash in the future, but I can understand why people with demanding occupations and unusual work schedules prefer the convenience of a B&M jeweler.

 

[FireGoddess]

I guess I''m not understanding why in 3 weeks this couldn''t have been done without having to take a day off. It sounds like decisions weren''t made or agreements weren''t acted upon (on your end) within a reasonable time frame in order to avoid taking a day off to get it done. This however, appears to have nothing to do with WF, who sent the stone and has been quite accomodating in having you retain possession of it for quite the extended period of time.

Anyway, doesn''t matter to us one way or the other as to the reason, the point is that it seems they have acted reasonably.

Good luck in your stone search.

 

[risingsun]

When I worked with WF, I had my stone sent to an appraiser, too. I explained that there was a time frame we had to work within. My appraisal was faxed to me and I faxed to my insurance company, so that the diamond was insured before it even arrived at my door. The hard copy of the appraisal arrived with my diamond. WF made it clear that the stone would not be released without payment in full. It sounds as if WF has gone above and beyond for you.

 

[jayrenay9]

I''m sorry this has turned into a problem for you and your bf -- it''s unfortunate as diamond shopping/buying she be really fun!

There are a few points where I''m confused though... Why did your bf need to take a day off and why do you need to have the stone insured before you can pay for it?

 

[Regular Guy]

My point here should probably be regarded more as a tangent to this thread...but it seems related enough. Probably, anyone taking a sharp approach to dates and procedures and such will be fine navigating WF's 10 day program. But...where it once was more in line with prominent competitors...now it seems a bit narrow...and for a casual and not careful shopper, might be caught up here where a similar problem may simply not arise with a vendor giving you 30 days. Personally...my first time out (18 years ago, using a B&M)...30 days was both noted and used...but...these are personality issues. It's not clear the jeweler in Minnesota who offers 90 days would have solved my issues. But...to the bigger picture I will take advantage of this thread to raise...despite WF's solid product...I wonder what portion of possible prospects don't engage them at the outset, when the options are on the table, and the spread of 30 vs 10 days is a clear choice.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/13/2007 7:57:58 PM
Author: Regular Guy
My point here should probably be regarded more as a tangent to this thread...but it seems related enough. Probably, anyone taking a sharp approach to dates and procedures and such will be fine navigating WF's 10 day program. But...where it once was more in line with prominent competitors...now it seems a bit narrow...and for a casual and not careful shopper, might be caught up here where a similar problem may simply not arise with a vendor giving you 30 days.

Ira, I think you're confusing two different things.

What you're referring to is the 10-day inspection period.....which occurs AFTER a diamond has been paid for and received.

What's being discussed in this thread is not the same. This diamond isn't experiencing a 10-day inspection period, it seems. Rather, it was sent to an appraiser so the client could compare stones and make a selection. Having seen the stone and selected it, it now has to be paid for. This has nothing to do with having only 10 days to look at the stone. This has more to do with 'we've decided that's the stone we want, but we don't want to pay for it/take possession of it until we go straighten out the insurance.'

That leaves the stone in limbo, because the vendor can't put it on the market but isn't getting paid for it either.

To me, it seems as though your appraiser might have been able to do a bit more to help in this situation. Your BF became aware on the 6th that there was some urgency around either getting payment accomplished or shipping the stone back. It's been an entire week since then, and you've noted your appraiser is just finishing documentation today?

I realize that appraisers cannot drop other things (including pre-existing commitments). On the other hand, since you had the stones shipped to him for comparison, it wouldn't have been a stretch for him to anticipate you'd likely want him generate an appraisal post-selection. Is his schedule really so busy that he couldn't fit in your appraisal within this past week, especially knowing the circumstances and urgency?

 

[jpk1102]

I interpreted what Regular Guy was saying to be independent of this particular "appraisal" situation and lengths Whiteflash went to accomodate the customer, (which BTW, in my opinion was very accomodating).

I interpreted Regular Guy saying on the following scenario: Diamond buyer considering stones weighs the 10 day return policy versus the 30 day return policy. For many, the ability to keep a stone longer, have it appraised with a larger window of opportunity, etc. is a definate plus. With a ten day return pollicy, it would seem you gotta scramble!

I think regular guy was saying, wonder how many people don''t even consider Whiteflash because their return pollicy is so contracted (10 days)? In other words, how many potential buyers were turned off by that and decided to buy elsewhere right off the bat?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/13/2007 8:56:04 PM
Author: jpk1102

I interpreted Regular Guy saying on the following scenario: Diamond buyer considering stones weighs the 10 day return policy versus the 30 day return policy. For many, the ability to keep a stone longer, have it appraised with a larger window of opportunity, etc. is a definate plus. With a ten day return pollicy, it would seem you gotta scramble!

I think regular guy was saying, wonder how many people don''t even consider Whiteflash because their return pollicy is so contracted (10 days)? In other words, how many potential buyers were turned off by that and decided to buy elsewhere right off the bat?

So essentially, he''s talking about an issue that''s not really related to the thread at hand. Gotcha......although it doesn''t really seem to make sense within the context of this particular thread.

Regarding return policies.........I don''t think it''s especially unusual for vendors to have standard policies, but by no means do I consider those policies non-negotiable either.

If I knew that I might need 20 days (say my s/o was travelling and wouldn''t be home until day 16 and I wanted his opinion), it''s perfectly reasonable for me to ask for a longer inspection period during the sale process. They can accommodate that request (making them a more viable choice for my business) or not (possibly making them less so.)

I can see why, as a matter of usual policy, a vendor might want to keep a shorter return period, especially when most sales will be easily accommodated with that period. That doesn''t mean you shouldn''t feel free to relate your needs in the sale process and ask for concessions you deem important.

 

[Miranda]

If you are having LM make the ring for you your interaction with WF will be short. WF (and GOG for that matter) carry very beautiful stones. Buy the one you like the best.

To answer your question, yes, I would absolutely give my money to the company I felt most comfortable with.

 

[LE]

I''m sorry if my first post makes it seem like I''m completely unhappy with Whiteflash. I had a miscommunication with them and my question was about whether other people would buy a stone from a company with which they were not 100% happy. I am 100% happy now, but was doubting my decision (as most of us do at some point).

To sum things up, I was very candid with my salesperson about my schedule. She was very understanding. Firegoddess, The reason that BF had to take the day off (well, he went in from 5am until 10am) is because it is very common for us to be at the hospital from 5am until 10pm, 6-7 days per week. Most hospitals in the area do not allow outside email use (restricted server) and they frown upon cell phone use, so trying to get things done during business hours is difficult for us. We''re in a unique situation since both of us are at this point in our medical education at the same time. People are usually very accommodating.

From the beginning of the transaction, my salesperson was aware that things would take longer if we could not reach anyone at WF after regular business hours. They were VERY helpful during the transaction, but we were never given a time frame about when the diamond had to be returned. Apparently, there was a miscommunication between the salesperson, BF, and someone in the financial department (who was not aware of our situation). That was the problem, in addition to needing a few days to transfer money because we decided to pay most of the cost of the diamond with cash after much thought about how many frequent flyer miles we could get from our credit card, etc. Today, the ring was appraised (and we received the paperwork). Once Jewelers Mutual receives everything, I''ll (er... BF will) have the stone. Hopefully, everything will be done by Monday or Tuesday!

I''m very excited to get the diamond now! I want to thank Whiteflash for being so understanding. After their prompt resolution of the miscommunication, I would definitely buy from them again!

 

[neatfreak]

LE, just so you know, if you can scan the paperwork you can do the JM application entirely online and have your policy in place in a few minutes...

 

[BigDiamonds]

I''m glad that it''s working out for you now!

I''m sorry that this turned into such a stressful experience. Yes, buying from a B&M is easier, but I think you''ll find that the extra effort is well worth it when you see your stone on your finger!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Yea, and to be honest, I cant imagine going to a BandM too be any easier at all. Maybe if you go to Tif or another high end store where you decide not to worry about cut at all and just buy something they have in stock it might be easier. But my experiences at local jewelers is that it ends up taking a tremendous amount of time and effort, only to have your options severel limited. Afterall, if they dont have exactly what you want in the store then you have to trust them to go browing through a virtual inventory. Eventually find a few they like and bring them in to look at then send them back out and repeat. That was hardly something that helped me and my busy days out

.

I figure it would be much better to narrow the selection down myself, then have one day with a few prime candidates to observe based on my own critical analysis and a gemologist that has already looked at them rather than having to make multiple trips to look at diamonds selected by someone else looking to turn his own profit.

not to be mean, but to answer your original question, no, thats not a reasonable reason to decide not to buy from a company

. I am glad they could accomodate you though.

 

[SpeedracerII]

Just to add my 2 cents... from my experience WF has been more than accommodating. I also had some stones brought in for inspection at a local appraiser. I only paid a deposit on three stones ($500 ea) and it was made clear to me that they would like them returned within a week. After all that was close to 20 grand of inventory out of circulation. Once we saw the stones and decided to purchase one, the other two were returned the next day and I wired payment that next day as well. Insurance was easily obtained overnight by sending the invoice and ''quicky'' appraisal to the insurance company on-line. It really wasn''t that hard, I can''t imagine why it would take 3 weeks. This is a kin to a car dealer allowing you to test drive a car and you decided you want to buy it but not pay for it until you can get insurance which for some reason took weeks. I suspect the dealership would have you arrested for grand theft auto long before 3 weeks came went by. Buying through a B&M would take even more time away from work than on-line (we did a lot of B&M shopping) so really it couldn''t have been easier. I don''t think you should be uncomfortable with WF, but rather WF should not be 100% comfortable with you. You don''t need to insure the stone to pay for it. If you expect WF to be comfortable with the stone at your appraiser, so should you.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

To me, it has been far easier to deal with online vendors than a B&M! Most of the transporting has been done by Fed Ex, UPS, or USPS, and I never had to take days off to go back and forth to a B&M store. All these vendors have missed a phone message or email. We need to consider the volume of email and phone calls they receive. If they don''t reply, then call again. If the lack of communication happens repeatedly, then I might switch vendors. In this case, I think WF bent over backwards to extend the preview period. I would think they would want a stone paid for or sent back in no more than a week. I think that is fair and reasonable.

 

[Moko]

Hi, I hope this is not off the topic, but I would like to know who is responsible in case of the loss of stones during the transportation. I mean whose insurance company will pay for the replacement?

If the stone is shipped

From Vendor to Appraiser: Vendor’s insurance?
From Appraiser to Consumer: Consumer’s insurance?
From Appraiser to Vendor for setting: Consumer’s insurance?
From Vendor to Consumer: Vendor’s insurance?

Or transportation company such as FedEx or UPS ?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/13/2007 7:57:58 PM
Author: Regular Guy
My point here should probably be regarded more as a tangent to this thread...but it seems related enough. Probably, anyone taking a sharp approach to dates and procedures and such will be fine navigating WF''s 10 day program. But...where it once was more in line with prominent competitors...now it seems a bit narrow...and for a casual and not careful shopper, might be caught up here where a similar problem may simply not arise with a vendor giving you 30 days. Personally...my first time out (18 years ago, using a B&M)...30 days was both noted and used...but...these are personality issues. It''s not clear the jeweler in Minnesota who offers 90 days would have solved my issues. But...to the bigger picture I will take advantage of this thread to raise...despite WF''s solid product...I wonder what portion of possible prospects don''t engage them at the outset, when the options are on the table, and the spread of 30 vs 10 days is a clear choice.

Well, I might have to take issue with this comment.

Some vendors get payment up front and allow 30 days to think it over, have it checked, what ever.

Others of us allow a stone to be sent, without payment, to an appraiser and expect that it will be looked at and a decision made in a reasonable amount of time. Since WhiteFlash made it clear that the amount of time was ten days, then it should have been done in ten days, and that amount of time communicated to the appraiser.

I feel that using this thread as an excuse to criticize WF for "only" allowing a diamond that is not sold and paid for to be out for three weeks now is out of line. Their "standard" is ten days, and with communication with the boyfriend that time has been expanded to three weeks. This is not worthy of condemnation or criticism, but rather of praise!

Wink

 

[Regular Guy]

Note to Al, Jpk, and Wink...

Al''s initial point was correct, Jpk''s follow up was generous but also correct, and now Wink''s turning my confusion into a criticism that wasn''t intended.

Al was correct because I was at least somewhat morphing two different things...this circumstance with Le, which I didn''t track with completely...and now has been resolved, apparently, and a related topic, which is associated with what I''ve copied here from you, Wink.

Date: 9/14/2007 7:13:45 PM
Author: Wink

Some vendors get payment up front and allow 30 days to think it over, have it checked, what ever.

I do like to be opportunistic...you know...rather than starting a new thread...titled...WF policy of only allowing 10 days to return a diamond sucks, etc...but rather...when a situation arises where this topic came to mind...commenting on it. Actually, the 10 day return policy doesn''t apparently seem to hurt them much, and is commented on rarely.

Jpk and the framed text are the ones I wanted to comment on...and Le''s situation was only intended to inspire my comments.

However, it''s altogether possible I really should have kept my big mouth shut.

It did seem better to respond, rather than not...but I''m also not intending to drag this on.

Regards,

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 9/14/2007 10:30:06 AM
Author: Moko
Hi, I hope this is not off the topic, but I would like to know who is responsible in case of the loss of stones during the transportation. I mean whose insurance company will pay for the replacement?

If the stone is shipped

From Vendor to Appraiser: Vendor’s insurance?
From Appraiser to Consumer: Consumer’s insurance?
From Appraiser to Vendor for setting: Consumer’s insurance?
From Vendor to Consumer: Vendor’s insurance?

Or transportation company such as FedEx or UPS ?

Most dealers shipping to either or an appraiser or directly to you will either buy the insurance from the carrier or use a 3rd party insurance that covers this. There are a couple of companies competing to offer coverage for jewelers who do this regularly. If there is a loss, the claimant is the dealer against the carrier. The same is true when the appraiser ships it back to the dealer, on to you, or off to a 3rd party for setting. If there’s a loss in transit the claimant would be the appraiser against the carrier.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

It’s not clear to me if this is a criticism of Whiteflash, the appraiser or the boyfriend but I have to say that allowing 3 weeks for an inspection on an unpaid stone is very reasonable. Generous even. I don’t recall it EVER taking that long. I usually do it within 2 days and the dealers are itching for their stone back or they’ve released it to the customer by day 3.

If I have a stone belonging to a dealer and am inspecting it on behalf of a client, I will return it immediately on request. Period. The client doesn’t get a vote. For that matter, neither do I. It makes no difference to me why the deal didn’t happen and I don’t ask because it’s none of my business. It’s their stone and if they want it, they get it. It is not an escrow service.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[shminbabe]

Well, now that we''ve discussed the situation to death, LE, I hope you realize we are expecting some pictures of said stone/ring as soon as you can! Very glad things fell into place for you and WF in the end.