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New diamond buyer jitters

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nerdbot

Rough_Rock
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Apr 17, 2005
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Hey guys,

I''m about to buy my first diamond, ever, for an engagement ring. I''ve been doing a lot of research and learning about diamonds these past couple months, and I''m about to meet with my diamond broker about a great diamond he''s found for me. However, as with anything, reading and learning is far different from actually going through and doing it. I just wanted to run my next steps by the diamond-savvy here to make sure I do this right, and ask a few questions.

1.) Meet my diamond broker to see the diamond. It hasn''t been GIA certified yet, but he''ll send it out to get certified if I say I''m interested. (Side note, the diamond in question is a 1.09ct, G, VS1, with an ideal cut). When a diamond gets sent out to be certified, does it go straight to a GIA lab, or are there independent business'' that do this as well? I can''t recall if he said a friend of his does diamond certifications. Should I ask to get it sent somewhere for certification?

2.) Get the setting made. My girlfriend has picked out a Scott Kay setting from Bailey Biddle Banks, and I''ve found detailed images of the ring from different angles on the web. My broker said I could either give him those pictures, or I could purchase the ring from BBB, bring it to him to have a mold made, and then return the rings. My concern with his idea is, since the ring has a lot of fine detail/engravings, would the ring look exactly like the original? Or would it look like a copy of a copy (i.e., less detail, etc). Also, I want the ring made in platinum, and while Scott Kay makes the exact ring I want in platinum, BBB only has it in yellow gold. This won''t affect the mold process will it?

3.) Make my down payment on the ring to reserve the stones.

4.) Contact my insurance company (State Farm) about the details of adding the ring to our insurance. However, I just read a thread about State Farm (our current homeowner''s insurance), and how they don''t have the greatest policy. Is it possible to go with a different company and get purely insurance for the ring and diamond? I''ve heard horror stories about how people didn''t get insurance immediately and lost the ring a few weeks later. Another option I was considering, either as an alternative or as an additional measure, getting a safe deposit box at my bank and keeping it there for safe storage until I propose.

5.) Once I finally purchace the ring, I will take it to an independent appraiser (one I found from this site) to make sure I received what I paid for.

6.) Propose!
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Did I miss anything, or anything I should be aware of?

Being that this is the largest purchase I''ve ever made, I''m still a bit skeptical about a few things. This diamond broker was referred to me by good friends, but these friends (husband and wife) are far more experienced with buying jewelry. They, unfortunately, no longer live nearby to help me out significantly. The price the broker gave me on the diamond is on par with the prices I''ve seen on whiteflash.com, and much better than the B&M retailers I''ve been to (BBB, Jared, etc) which gives me a little more piece of mind.

One concern I have about this broker is that the only tool he has for me to use is a loupe, and I''m definately not experienced enough to, in a reasonable amount of time, verify that the stone is as good as he claims it to be. Ideally, I''d like to send the loose stone (before I purchase it) to the independent appraiser, and then again after I purchase the ring. Not sure how this works though, do I leave collateral for the broker and take the diamond myself, or does the broker send the diamond directly to the appraiser?

Thanks for you time and for all the great info!
 

valeria101

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
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15,809
Date: 4/17/2005 96:24 PM
Author:nerdbot

Taking it point by point:

1.) When a diamond gets sent out to be certified, does it go straight to a GIA lab, or are there independent business' that do this as well? I can't recall if he said a friend of his does diamond certifications. Should I ask to get it sent somewhere for certification?

GIA would be good, but takes time. If that's not ok, another lab (say, EGL) or independent appraiser can provide the reality check for those high grades. Having the "certification" done by either the seller or his friends... doesn't tell you anything more than the seller already has - this just defeats the purpose of certification or appraisal, IMO.



2.) My concern with (the cast copy), since the ring has a lot of fine detail/engravings, would the ring look exactly like the original?
You are right: there's no way a cast copy will look like the engraved original.
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Fullstop.


[no idea about #3 and #4]


5.) Once I finally purchace the ring, I will take it to an independent appraiser (one I found from this site) to make sure I received what I paid for.

You could use appraisal instead of certification for the diamond as well ... if the appraiser is independent from seller.


The price the broker gave me on the diamond is on par with the prices I've seen on whiteflash.com, and much better than the B&M

Could be wrong, but does WF sell uncertified diamonds ? Let alone uncertified "ideal cut" diamonds. The premium on "ideal cut" is based on rather strict standards - I would not try to grade H&A with a loupe over jewelry store counter
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just for the reason you mention below:


One concern I have about this broker is that the only tool he has for me to use is a loupe, and I'm definately not experienced enough to, in a reasonable amount of time, verify that the stone is as good as he claims it to be.

Hope some of my 0.2 worth helps.
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About the setting: instead of having a shoddy copy of some intricate ring made, how about a simple, inexpensive setting that might be changed later by your gild id she so chooses ? You would not be the first to propose with a temporary setting around here - in fact, quite a few pricescope posters went this way. Especially for buying online, it seems to make sense.

Btw, Scot Kay settings are also available though internet sellers - among them weddingband.com. Perhaps you might want to check prices with them.
 

DiamondExpert

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
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1,245
I suggest you be super cautious at this point - anyone who tells you they have a friend who certifies diamonds is blowing smoke!

As pointed out above, if you go with a GIA grading report expect to wait 6 weeks or so, and it won''t tell you much more than you already know.

If you feel you need to learn how to use a loupe to verify what your "diamond broker" has told you about the stone - forget it! It takes a LOT of experience to use a loupe properly. A gem microscope with darkfield lighting is what you need to have someone show you the diamond properly.

I think you''re a bit on shaky ground here - it shouldn''t be a great mystery whether or not the diamond is "Ideal" - that is Ideal as defined by the AGS - proportions, polish and symmetry - even then it may not be the best.

Someone is setting you up to buy an "Ideal" diamond - and that word can be defined any way the seller defines it.
 

nerdbot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
42
So am I correct in assuming that independent companies (or non-affiliated companies) do not do certifications? In other words, the stone is always sent to a GIA laboratory?

I''m meeting with him tomorrow, I''ll feel him out, and report back.
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If I still have a bad feeling, I''ll back out. Something else just occured to me... even if he says he''s going to send it out for certification, I won''t be absolutely sure until I buy it and take it to an independent appraiser. Is it normal to have diamonds that are later sent to be certified, or do all legitimate vendors receive diamonds that have already been certified? One thing I haven''t asked him (and I know I should''ve earlier), is what his guarantee/return policy is. I''ll definately be asking tomorrow.

I suggest you be super cautious at this point - anyone who tells you they have a friend who certifies diamonds is blowing smoke!

I could''ve misunderstood him, he has a very thick Russian accent. I''ll know for sure after tomorrow.

Any other suggestions for where I can find Scott Kay rings online? Weddingband.com didn''t have the design my gf had picked out, but I also haven''t called them for more information.
 

baltneu

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
371
As previous person said, I would be careful with this seller. Why can''t he show you GIA or AGS cert stone to begin with. About senidng it to a friend, does not sound goodl. Watch out.

Perhaps you can spend more time on PS to learn how some of the PS''ers buy. Best of luck.
 

nerdbot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
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Also, I''ve heard that Scott Kay has an iron grip on their merchandise, so I won''t find much, if any, price differences between different vendors. Is this true? I''ve been looking at a bunch of online jewellers I''ve found mentioned on the PS main site and in these threads, and they are all roughly the same price. Not anywhere close to the diamond savings I''m seeing between B&M and online places. Or am I just not looking in the right place?
 

nerdbot

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Date: 4/18/2005 9:18
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4 AM
Author: baltneu
Can't tell if you have a good savings because I did not see price you are quoted on the stone in your first post. Care to share those details? Then someone can use search engine on site to check it out.


How about these for example:


Well, in my previous post I was referring to price differences between settings, not the center stone. The Scott Kay setting I was looking at is:

Scott Kay Setting @ Bailey, Biddle, Banks website ($2690)

I also saw it the other day on Solomon Brother's Jewelry website, but I can't seem to find it now.
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But, for the diamond, the broker I was working with quoted me $7000 (again, the quality of this stone is unknown and only based on what he's told me). He said it was between G and F in color, VS1, 1.09 ct, and he believes it to be an ideal cut, saying we'll know for sure when it gets certified. But, the more and more I think about it, even if he is legit and checks out, he's at worst a couple hundred and at best a few hundred cheaper than some of the places people rave about on PS... seems like a small price to pay for some piece of mind.
 

dixxin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
43
I don''t know this broker but I think something stinks.. if you still want to carry out this deal I suggest that you find a "independent" appraisal.. or better still buy from a e-vendor such as whiteflash, good old gold or diamondexchange whom I purchase from.

The e-vendor deal in large volume of diamond and have excellent reputation..

Good luck
 

baltneu

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
371
Pehaps the best piece of advise I can give is to have a "return" policy from this guy you want to buy from, this way if your independent appraisor (not his appraisor), agrees with you and you like the stone, you can keep it or return it, no questions asked. The people on this thread have given good, solid advise, best of luck.
 

icekid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
7,475
sounds rather sketchy. i don''t think too many reputable vendors would suggest that you err "borrow" the ring from BBB so they can make an exact replica.
 

nerdbot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
42
I didn''t end up meeting with my broker today. I called him and told him to get the diamond certified first, and then we''d talk afterwards. He was fine with that. It turns out that I misunderstood him about who was doing the certification. I simply asked him again where it was getting certified (no mention of a friend or anything), and he said he was sending it to the GIA labs.

Instead of meeting with him, I went to Pearlman''s Jewelers since they were relatively local to me (about an hour away), based on the posts (one in particular) I found on PS. I was a bit skeptical at first, figuring their prices would be about the same as BBB or Jared. I was extremely surprised to see hear their prices and actually hear them say that they try to stay competitive with internet pricing.

One question I had is, can I contact GIA and give them the GIA record number and have them tell me who sent the stone in for certification? I''m just wondering how easily a GIA certificate can be forged, so I''d like to be able to verify my broker sent in the stone before buying it. Obviously, I''ll take it to an appraiser when I do buy it to double (triple?) check the certification, but I''d just feel safer if I could verify at each step of the process. I''m not just suspicious of my broker, I''m suspicious of any jeweller I go to at this point. Maybe I''m a bit paranoid, but I''ve never spent such a large sum of money in one shot in my entire life.

Thanks to everyone who posted advice and comments, and especially Fortheloveofdiamonds for the indirect referal to Pearlman''s. I definately feel much better about where I am right now in the process, knowing that I have several other very good alternatives if my broker is in fact trying to scam me. Thanks again, and I''ll keep everyone posted.
 

dixxin

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
43
Yeah I agree that having a return policy will save you alot of anxiety but with diamond purchase you will still want to buy it from a reputable dealer whom you can work with. This is why people I know prefer buying diamond from a source referred to by someone close...

I understand how you feel as I recently took out a significant portion of my saving putting it into a diamond for my fiance... there''s always going to be uncertainty at each step of the way even when there is a return policy and even when you can send it to any appraiser you want cause at the end of the day you are handling over a HUGE amount of money to buy something you know so little about. Many diamond buyer would not be able to differentiate a diamond from a $10 CZ.. although learning as much as possible about the diamond can help with the anxiety the best cure is still to go to someone you can trust.

I was initially very reluctant to purchase from a MDX because they are a e-vendor but was initially convinced of their legitimacy through numerous magazine endorsement when I visited their office down in Melbourne. The help given to me subsequently by their many friendly and helpful staff (Rebecca, Johan, Michael, and Wayne) certainly help in building a level of trust making me more comfortable making future transaction with them and recommending anyone to them knowing that they will not get dupe.

But despite this continuous relationship I am still nervous when I have to hand back a 1carat for a refund - I can still see a possibility where I don''t get the money back despite returning the ring.. but I just have to have faith I guess.. when you are making such a important (not to mention expensive) purchase with so little knowledge, you have to rely on the help of other REPUTABLE person with more knowledge than you.. sometime you might have to pass on a "deal" but I myself have a mistrust for these "deals"..

Anyhow, if you still wish to buy from your current broker seek advise from a reputable appraiser.. if you don''t know one, get referral from a reputable jeweller such as BBB. You might have to spend a few hundred dollars on this service but it is certainly well worth it for the advice giving you a permanent peace of mind.

Good luck
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nerdbot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
42
I decided the savings I was potentially getting wasn''t worth the sleep I was losing worrying about it. Since he didn''t have any sophisticated equipment (microscope, sarin report, etc), his opinion on quality was very subjective. After looking at prices for a week, I realized that what he was claiming it to be was very rare (G-F, VS1, 1.09 in size), so most likely the GIA report would come in with a lower grade. I''d have to pay $200 for the GIA report, $85 to get it appraised, and then $100 to have someone else mount it (he''d probably do it for free, but I don''t trust that either). Now, the $1000 savings I was getting is closer to $500.

I found two local jewelers, and they have very good prices, and most importantly I feel safe buying from them.

If anyone is interested, I have another problem now.
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