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New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamond

coati

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David Friedlander discusses the evaluation of diamonds graded Fancy Vivid Yellow in this new article:

How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamond


Fancy Vivid Yellow: "The King of Yellow Diamonds" - This article will delve into the world of these most highly prized yellow diamonds.

Thanks, David, for contributing to the PS Journal.
 

kenny

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Cool.
I love more reading everything I can get my hands on about my favorite topic, FCDs.

Thanks David.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

My pleasure Kenny! :wavey:

It really was a labor of love.......
 

Karl_K

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Bravo David!
I have been waiting for this article for a long time.

"Nice examples of asscher and emerald cuts may bring as much as 50% more than a comparable radiant or cushion. A nicely cut pear shape will bring 5-15% premium over radiant or cushion."

I know why this is but think people would be more interested in your opinion than mine about why they cost more.
I think it would be interesting to others if you dont mind addressing it?
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Thank you Karl- I really appreciate the words.
IN terms of cost, and why step cuts are more, that is a very good question.
I remember a time when one of our cutters called me over to check out a stone he'd just finished.
It was an emerald cut about 5.50cts, and drop dead gorgeous.
He asked what color I thought GIA would issue.
"Fancy Light Yellow" I answered.
"That's what I thought too", he said.
I was like a kid in a candy store....SO HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT?????

"It's going back on the wheel. If I cut to radiant, I'll loose about 15%, but I'm going to increase the color at least one grade."
Simple math
Fancy Yellow is 25% more than Fancy Light Yellow, so a 15% weight loss still brings a greater profit overall. I think in the end he even got Fancy Intense Yellow, which is almost double FLY. That's what he calls a "Home Run". To me it's like tearing down a charming Victorian to build a high rise.

That's one main reason.
The other is one of distribution of color. Step cats are incredibly "stripey"- even in colorless. But with Fancy Colors, this aspect can sometimes be a distraction.
Market forces dictate that a stone with small virtual facets, no patterning, less contrast- allows more even color.
It's true, but personally, I don't mind, and in fact, I love how this effect looks on step cuts.

If the cutter risks going for Asscher, or emerald cut and achieves strong color results, and he or she succeeds, there's a huge payoff.

I've already mentioned my dream to cut a Yellow Octavia- however it will be a nightmare to get the rough, and for you and Yoram to work out all the details.
But such a stone would have no price. Mainly due to lack of comparable stones on the market.
The process would add so much to the cost, it would be deemed unfeasible by most cutters.
Imagine one in vivid yellow.........
 

Rockdiamond

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A HUGE thanks to coatimundi for the Vivid Yellow Article

I just want to thank Erika publicly for the remarkable job she does editing PS articles.
She was invaluable in the writing of the article on Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamonds recently published.
A lot goes on behind the scenes to make these educational articles happen- and Erika is a driving force.
THANK YOU ERIKA!!!!
 

beaujolais

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Re: A HUGE thanks to coatimundi for the Vivid Yellow Article

Absolutely. A fantastic article it is, too ! Amazing eye candy in there, for sure! You go, Rock & Coati !

(One day I'll have a DBL yellow diamond, even if a mini.) :naughty:
 

sixweekoldson

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Dear Coatimundi,

I think this is a good article but it has room for some revisions here are some suggestions and comments:

1) The title of the article is primarily focussed on evaluation of Fancy Yellow diamonds including GIA's grading but did the author contact GIA and receive their input on their actual methods? I see no quote or reference to any information from GIA or any articles written by GIA lab members or references to articles published in Gems and Gemology on the subject.

It would have been beneficial to have used some of GIA's terminology and describe in detail their actual methods of evaluation instead of "Color grading of natural yellow diamonds is simply not an “exact science.". GIA's grading methods are carefully controlled and meant to be repeatable and exacting in their methodology but are still subject to the limitations of human color perception and its inherent human error.

At the very least I would have quoted this paragraph and referenced GIA's portal:

GIA describes color in terms of hue, tone and saturation. Hue refers to the diamond's characteristic color, tone refers to the color's relative lightness or darkness and saturation refers the color's depth or strength. Using highly controlled viewing conditions and color comparators, a fancy color grader selects one of 27 hues, then describes tone and saturation with terms such as "Fancy Light," "Fancy Intense," and "Fancy Vivid."

http://gia4cs.gia.edu/EN-US/gr-colored-diamonds-gemstones.htm

and a reference to this article would also be helpful

http://gia.metapress.com/content/v1412726766838m7/
Volume 30, Number 4 / Winter 1994

2) Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that unlike D-Z color diamonds which are evaluated facedown and looking at body color, fancy colored diamonds are evaluated faceup.

3) The 5 diamonds in photographs 5 and 6 are not lined up evenly and there is considerable more glare off the 3rd and 4rth diamond from the left. GIA has very specific viewing conditions for evaluating color and it is inaccurate to tilt the diamonds with respect to the viewer and one another when making a colour comparison amongst a series. More care should be taken by the author to ensure each diamond in a series is photographed in the same lighting conditions when comparing nuances in colour. Another photo with the all of the diamonds lined up properly or a series of photos would provide a better example showing the range of GIA's vivid yellow grade.

4) "The presence of Medium or Strong Blue can actually increase perceived yellow color in non UV rich indoor lighting."
That sentence seems counter-intuitive because in general Blue Fluoresecence washes out the yellow color and makes it less saturated not more.

I would be interested in understanding in what way does it increase the perception of the saturation of yellow and by what mechanism?
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

HI Sixweekoldson,
Thanks for reading the article- and for offering your thoughts.
In terms of how I wrote it, it's based on my experience with yellow diamonds, as opposed to regurgitating GIA literature.
Personally, I dislike overly technical explanations of things. For me, understanding is more of a practical matter.

For example, GIA's methodology in grading diamonds....face up, or through the pavilion.
I've also read the methodology claimed to be used- however in a practical sense, the results seem to call into question if there is any face up viewing of U-V through Y-Z stones.
Here's my belief, and this is based on practical experience.
Based on what we know, GIA grades "Fancy Colors" from the face up position, and non fancy colors from the pavilion.
So what's the grader's first step if they see a stone has a lot of yellow?
They're going to have to look at the face to see if it's dark enough for Fancy Light Yellow.
Say it's not- now they turn the stone over- but did they totally "forget" how it looks face up?
No, of course not.
And the proof of this is shown in the consistency of U-V, W-X, and Y-Z stones in the face up position.
As I mention in the article, and you've repeated here- GIA color grading- and color grading in general- is NOT an exact science.
There's crossover stones that will get one grade one day, and another the next.


Regarding photos- again, my feeling is pragmatic. It's possible to manipulate images to get them to look exactly as you want. The photos I post look like what my eyes see. Of course this involves perception.
Getting 5 stones to line up perfectly in relation to the lens is about impossible- yet the value of having all the stones in the same frame allows the viewer to see all the stones in the same exposure.

Fluorescence: I use the term "wildcard" because that's exactly what it is. There's no consistency from one stone to the next.
I'm not writing as a scientist, and frankly, my interest is the practical aspects. This is also my goal when educating consumers.
I can't explain the scientific reasons why one medium blue stone looks dull, yet another looks vibrant yellow.
But I can say for sure that many fluorescent vivid yellow diamonds exhibit these inconsistencies.
 

coati

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Thanks for your comments, sixweekoldson. David has posted a response, and if you have further comments or questions about his article, he can address them.

Quick note about PS Journal articles: We make suggestions, but ultimately the final article is the author's, and he or she may or may not decide to implement recommendations. The journal provides a place for both trade members and consumers to add their experience and all members are welcome to submit an article. It is separate from Pricescope's guides and tutorials, which involve multiple expert contributions.

Perhaps David or another member would be interested in writing a piece with focus on GIA terminology and grading.

You can also visit: Fancy Colored Diamonds to learn more. The new guide includes an introduction to FCD laboratory grading. How are fancy colors graded?
 

Karl_K

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

I read and appreciated David's real world experience over talking about what the labs say and advertise.
If he had talked to great length about the labs "advertising" I would have been disappointed.
I have been bugging David for years to write this article.

That said the table up/table down is one thing that should have likely been included.
The rest not so much.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Thanks Karl- and Erika.
I appreciate the discussion- actually once I started thinking about the face up face down points today- and after speaking to a cutter about this, I realized that aspect- you can't know if a stone faces up as Fancy light Yellow without actually looking in the face. Which bears out my anecdotal experience in these grades.
 

coati

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Karl_K|1345229216|3253205 said:
I read and appreciated David's real world experience

Yes, and exploring the nuances of one color grade, Fancy Vivid Yellow, is eye-opening for the average consumer. This piece comes from the trade member's experience in handling hundreds of these diamonds. Best to get laboratory grading information direct from the lab, as Bryan Boyne has done with his recent collaboration with AGS Labs.

Thanks for your thoughts (above), David.
 

Ella

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

I apologize for the intrusion of a repeatedly banned member for continuously breaking our policies. :wavey:
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Lovely article David, thanks for the contribution.
Love the inch to feet colour comparison analogy.

A couple of comments if I may:


When you are discussing GIA grades and 'normal light'
"The stone above was graded Fancy Vivid Green-Yellow by GIA with Strong Green fluorescence. In my opinion, it gave the stone a rather dull appearance, and the color did not reflect the GIA grade under normal room lighting."

GIA uses what it believes is a 'normal standardized light' with an appropriate amount of UV. I believe they use Macbeth and similar colour grading light boxes which are used in many other industries. So infact this defines 'normal light'. Right or wrong.

Regarding UV content of UV:
"Another possibility is one where the interaction between blue fluorescence, and the strong yellow of a vivid diamond, creates a situation where the diamond is not sleepy, or hazy, but it impacts the color in a negative sense, even in non-ultraviolet rich situations. Such stones are seen as highly undesirable on the market, with a large impact on price and value."
Again GIA uses a standard amount of UV that they believe is 'fair'. I doubt your interpretation that I made bold. As you know David I am not one of those who believes the G in GIA refers to God. But they have thought about these matters and done what they believe is right and valid.
I do agree with you however that Fluoro is a wild card. I have seen it make a stone amazingly desirable, and I have seen strong blue fluoo make a vivid stone look light yellow in shaded daylight. I have also seen strong blues where there seems to be no reduction in yellow colour!
(Blue is the complimentary colour to yellow and when you add blue to yellow you get white or colourless. Yellow is caused by a reduction in the amount of blue radiation (by absorption) departing the stone or paint or dye.

Regarding Cut:
"I’m sure they exist, but I can’t recall seeing an Old Mine Brilliant Vivid Yellow."
I think the answer is that the 4 large pavilion facets cause 4 large dark zones, surrounded by several very bright washed out zones. This alternation as the stone is rocked ever so slightly makes the colour uneven and makes it impossible to recieve the top grade.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Hi Garry,
Thanks for reading- and offering some great thought.

In terms of UV "normal"- and grading in general- I think this goes back to the practical versus scientific manner of assessment.
For example- you're probably right about the type of light GIA uses.
They'd need standardization for consistency.
Speaking in practical matters, no such standardization exists for consumers wearing diamonds.
If I take a given strong blue stone and look at it in sunlight, then move it away, I'll likely see some change. In many cases we will anyway, but not all.
How much UV is in the "away" position?
I can't say exactly- but I can say that a definite change is noticeable on some fluorescent diamonds.So, from a practical standpoint sunlight has a lot of UV, room lighting does not.

In the first case- my comment was ""The stone above was graded Fancy Vivid Green-Yellow by GIA with Strong Green fluorescence. In my opinion, it gave the stone a rather dull appearance, and the color did not reflect the GIA grade under normal room lighting."
You're correct, this statement is ambiguous based on the specificity of the article.
To clarify: GIA's grades on Vivid intensity stones with fluorescence can produce some unexpected results regarding the perceived color- based on the type of light the diamond is viewed under. In the case of the stone photographed there was a noticeable inconsistency in color based on naturally occurring differences in UV lighting we all experience indoors and outdoors.

Also the depth of the type of "dull" I'm speaking of is so easy to spot. I agree GIA has put a lot of thought into these matters- but the result is that we're all in the position of determining the effect of fluorescence on our own- GIA does not evaluate fluorescence,, they only note it's presence.


About Old Mine Brilliant stones graded Fancy Vivid Yellow.
You may be correct- and this aspect is made more complex by the fact that such stones categorized as "Even" by GIA, although I agree, there's zones of greater and lesser colors.
But I've seen a number of Intense Yellow Even OMB's- so I imagine it's just a matter of intensity.
This may be related to market forces where the truly vivid rough is simply not used for any experimentation.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Rockdiamond|1345581910|3254991 said:
Hi Garry,


Also the depth of the type of "dull" I'm speaking of is so easy to spot. I agree GIA has put a lot of thought into these matters- but the result is that we're all in the position of determining the effect of fluorescence on our own- GIA does not evaluate fluorescence,, they only note it's presence.


About Old Mine Brilliant stones graded Fancy Vivid Yellow.
You may be correct- and this aspect is made more complex by the fact that such stones categorized as "Even" by GIA, although I agree, there's zones of greater and lesser colors.
But I've seen a number of Intense Yellow Even OMB's- so I imagine it's just a matter of intensity.
This may be related to market forces where the truly vivid rough is simply not used for any experimentation.

The yellow and yellow green fluoro is an interesting effect and some of those really over the top stones (like naturals that look like some HPHT treated ones) seem to be able to find their own market David, even though they can be quite opaque. But I agree - they are not for me either.

Re the OldMiners - there must have been plenty mined in South Africa and polished over the century, but i suspect most have already been polished to Vivid cushions already.
 

Catmom

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

hi david,

sorry about the punctuation but i'm writing left handed these days [shoulder surgery]. i'm so glad you wrote this article. there's really not a lot of info regarding colored diamonds. it really is interesting to be able to see how the specific colors can vary per designation. i wish something like this article had been available back when i purchased my yellow diamond.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Hi Catmom,
Who cares about punctuation between friends!
Thank you so much for your words- they mean a lot.
I'm already working on the next installment.
 

Karl_K

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Rockdiamond|1346342796|3259813 said:
I'm already working on the next installment.
kewl!
If you do one on FLY the range of color in that grade is going to blow some minds.
 

denverappraiser

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

PSBLINDERS|1346888935|3262886 said:
This article is a joke.
Guessing about how GIA grades fancy color diamonds.
Guessing about how the market puts a value on fancy color diamonds.
Plenty of information available to non luddite trademembers who actually CONTACT THE LAB.
This is the blind leading the blind. Garry H how come you don't fix this article?
Hi PSBlinders,

Did we read the same article?

Guessing about how GIA grades fancy color diamonds.
I didn’t see any statements in the article at all that look like ‘guessing’ about GIA grading methodology, nor did I notice any incorrect statements describing their grading scale. The article doesn’t claim to be a grading manual and it certainly doesn’t fill that purpose, but I’m missing what you’re talking about here.

Guessing about how the market puts a value on fancy color diamonds.
I didn’t see any statements in the article at all about market dynamics or ‘value’ as relates to fancy color diamonds. Again, I’m not getting what you’re talking about here. That would perhaps an interesting subject to some but it's not even mentioned in the article at hand. Did I miss something?

Plenty of information available to non luddite trademembers who actually CONTACT THE LAB.
True, but so what? Actually the lab is fairly tight lipped about the minutia of their grading methodology and things like the spectra of their lights and exactly what they’re using as masters to mark the various dividing lines between the grades. What does this have to do with the article? FWIW, the GIA's library is a better research source than the lab for trademembers and consumers alike who want to dive down this particular rabbit hole. Luddites are welcome.

Garry H how come you don't fix this article?
Garry isn’t the admin, and the admin doesn’t edit content beyond the broad sword of deleting or refusing to publish things that she thinks are inappropriate. She doesn’t ‘fix’ articles, nor should she.

This is the blind leading the blind.
Cool picture. Thanks.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

I truly welcome discussion and valid criticism of my writing.
For learning to happen, ideas need to be exchanged.
Part of what makes such experiences fun, and more worthwhile is respect between the parties having the discussion.

Although your tone and general manner are unnecessarily condescending, I will answer the points you made:
1) I don't need to guess how GIA grades Fancy Colored diamonds to understand the very real implications of the results. I could have described discussions I've had with GIA instructors- or used the literature available.
But my goal is practical education. What difference does it make to me, as a buyer, why GIA grades two diamonds of different saturation " Fancy Vivid Yellow"? I've shown great variances in the article.
The results speak for themselves, and that's what buyers need to look for.

2) also no need for me to guess how the market deals with these variances. I did mention some of the market implications in the article- however GIA says NOTHING about market implications.
That's part of the reason that anecdotal experience regarding these grades is extremely valuable. If I've not bought a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamond for a while (or ever), but I have access to people who buy them every day- that's who's going to be able to answer market implications- not GIA

Best of luck on Pricescope PSBlinders
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

http://octonus.com/oct/projects/fancycolor.phtml

For anyone who wants a more scientific approach to fancy colored diamond there is a 27 page article here with a primary focus on fancy yellows.

David I have sent this link to you many times but I am not sure if you have read it?
And others have suggested the Gems & Gemology article from a few years ago - I have not seen that online anywhere. I wonder if it is?
 

kenny

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Garry, thanks for posting that link.

Gobble Gobble Gobble. :read: :read: :read:
 

cgoodman999

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Dear GIA Expert,

Thank you for your insights. They are invaluable

I understand that valuation is not the issue when you grade.

I also understand the multileveled variables that affect a qualitative grade that a color must necessarily be.

The coin Market never had a grey sheet until late 70s until then grading was Almost unc and Unc and maybe proof. now its MS2-MS70 and prices for each grade

The colored diamond market is about to commoditize like the coin market did. But the supply numbers and the grading differentials between the various quality differentials within a grade such as FVY IF faint, medium and strong Flor versus no flor are all different grades even within the same vivid grading--and the that grade increases as the IF grade goes down to SI depending on the cut as each cut may enhance or detract from the actual grading. Since the color is as or more important than the clarity grade--rounds and emerald IFs being the most desirous or difficult to produce with full saturation

Unfortunately the volumes of various graded diamonds are hard to know. Therefore the supply of each is currently unknown. And a monopoly has no motivation to publish that information. It s probably the same for colorless diamonds as well.

Unless someone here has some stats. Without supply numbers for each grade subgrade and flor level it makes valuation more a borse than a true commodity market.

This makes the investment in diamonds quite risky even though the monopoly has a motivation to control prices and inflation should revalue this asset unless the supply is manipulated. Now that Tiffany is marketing Yellow--it could really appreciate

Can anyone help me fill in the supply variables or some rough parameters.

I project an increase in demand, but if supply is manipulated it will remain a risky investment'

ANy thoughts would be appreciated

The current Buzz is that the market could crash because of inexperienced pricing skill sets in Debeers new middle managers

Does any one have any information on this?

cgg
 

cgoodman999

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Dear GIA Expert,

Thank you for your insights. They are invaluable

I understand that valuation is not the issue when you grade.

I also understand the multileveled variables that affect a qualitative grade that a color must necessarily be.

The coin Market never had a grey sheet until late 70s until then grading was Almost unc and Unc and maybe proof. now its MS2-MS70 and prices for each grade

The colored diamond market is about to commoditize like the coin market did. But the supply numbers and the grading differentials between the various quality differentials within a grade such as FVY IF faint, medium and strong Flor versus no flor are all different grades even within the same vivid grading--and the that grade increases as the IF grade goes down to SI depending on the cut as each cut may enhance or detract from the actual grading. Since the color is as or more important than the clarity grade--rounds and emerald IFs being the most desirous or difficult to produce with full saturation

Unfortunately the volumes of various graded diamonds are hard to know. Therefore the supply of each is currently unknown. And a monopoly has no motivation to publish that information. It s probably the same for colorless diamonds as well.

Unless someone here has some stats. Without supply numbers for each grade subgrade and flor level it makes valuation more a borse than a true commodity market.

This makes the investment in diamonds quite risky even though the monopoly has a motivation to control prices and inflation should revalue this asset unless the supply is manipulated. Now that Tiffany is marketing Yellow--it could really appreciate

Can anyone help me fill in the supply variables or some rough parameters.

I project an increase in demand, but if supply is manipulated it will remain a risky investment'

ANy thoughts would be appreciated

The current Buzz is that the market could crash because of inexperienced pricing skill sets in Debeers new middle managers

Does any one have any information on this?

cgg
 

Kelly12

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Re: New Article: How to Evaluate a Fancy Vivid Yellow Diamon

Great.
I got a lot of information about diamond.
Thanks for your share. :)
 
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