shape
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ID Jewelry in NYC, while im in LA

eugchen

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im looking for some diamond earrings studs for my wife, and i see alot of people recommending ID Jewelry here on Pricescope.

they have offered me a great pair at an amazing price (almost too good to be true), but the pair is AGI (Accredited Gemological Institute) ratings. ive never heard of this company, so maybe the rating is worthless. unfortunately i cant see the diamond.

has everyone had good experiences with ID and possibly with AGI ratings? are things easy to return with ID in 30 days if im not satisfied with the diamond?

will attach what they sent me so far. thanks for your opinions!

**edited by moderator, please upload pics to forum directly**
 

Madison2

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I ran the numbers in the HCA Tool and see it came out as triple excellent in fire, light return and scintallation and a grade of 1.7 which is in range. So these must be beautiful and not duds.
If you are on a budget and price was a factor, go for them and if she doesn't like them you can always return them.
I have bought a lot of jewelry and GIA Diamonds from IDJ and I never had a problem. Although the diamonds your thinking of buying for her are AGI, that is why they are less than GIA. If you cannot afford the GIA diamond earrings, then by all means go for it. Below is the result when I plugged the number in HCA Tool.
Good luck! :D

Selected: 62.4% depth, 57% table, 35° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle,
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores below:



Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.7 - Excellent
within TIC range
 

heididdl

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I am on my third personal purchase with IDJewelry they are terrific. I also recommended my BFF and she bought 2tcw studs from them as well. GO for it the y are the nicest people with fabulous product.
 

PintoBean

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I agree with both Madison2 and heididi!

IDJ is very customer service oriented and they want happy customers because happy customers become repeat customers. Make sure you understand the return policy as a consumer and give the earrings a chance in person since you have a window to see them and return them.
 

eugchen

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Madison---thanks so much for that tip on the HCA!!!! didnt know about that! the only problem is that i really dont know if that image of the parameters is for those diamonds, in fact they only gave me one of those when obviously there are two earrings.

anyway, i feel better that i have read so many good reviews on this site on ID Jewelry, and seems like their products are very good along with their customer service.
 

Phoenix

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I hope the OP doesn't mind my posting for him. Madison, I don't think the OP is on a budget per se; it's a very good amount he's spending (based on his earlier post).

Eugene, ID Jewelry is a reputable vendor. I'd ask, however, if they wouldn't mind have the diamonds re-certed with GIA or AGS and you pay for the re-certification fee. I've never heard of this other lab. I'd trust IDJ, but I'd still have the re-certification done. Should be just a very small amount, a little over $100 if memory serves.
 

tyty333

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That's wierd because that first image of the diamond measurement looks like it is from a GIA report. I think you need to clarify
that and is there one for the other stone?

If they are not GIAed...I would ask him to send them off or find you some GIA stones.
 

eugchen

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yea, just spoke to IDjewelry, they wont get GIA cert for this...but they promised that they stand by their product and will give me an extended return policy. they are giving me a very good price on it, so not sure what to do...

normally wouldnt consider it as this might be one of those too good to be true moments, but i hear nothing but amazing things about IDjewelry, almost unanimous!
 

eugchen

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not sure what you mean why wont they send it?

the pair of diamonds has AGI certificates, and they wont get GIA certs even if i pay for it. they are pretty much saying take these diamonds or leave it. they said if i want GIA diamonds, they will get me other diamonds that are GIA, but they will be at least a few thousand dollars more.
 

Phoenix

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eugchen|1484873112|4116729 said:
not sure what you mean why wont they send it?

the pair of diamonds has AGI certificates, and they wont get GIA certs even if i pay for it. they are pretty much saying take these diamonds or leave it. they said if i want GIA diamonds, they will get me other diamonds that are GIA, but they will be at least a few thousand dollars more.

Hmm...very strange! It's not like IDJ to not be upfront and transparent.

Honestly, I'd personally pass! Or if you're really tempted, could you at least have an appraiser look at them? David Wolf is located in NYC and you could ask him. If IDJ still says no, I'd definitely not buy these diamonds.

Call me skeptical, but there's a reason why these diamonds are much less expensive.
 

yasssss

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I would not buy these. They probably do not want to send them to a reputable lab because they'll come back with much lower color and clarity grades. I know that IDJ is really well reviewed here and I trust the pricescope community, but I visited them a year ago when I was in NY and I was really disappointed. They definitely weren't transparent and tried to hassle me thinking I was ignorant. It was very off putting.
 

kenny

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AGI is not even a gemological lab.
Per their website they are an appraisal business.

http://aginewyork.com

GIA is an independent gem lab that grades diamonds, but does not appraise them.
GIA's color and clarity grades are highly reputable.
Grades from some other labs are, shall we say?, generous.
IOW the same diamond that, say, EGL grades as F VS1 may get grades of H SI1 or worse from GIA.
When you don't know the real grades you can't know a proper price.
Guess who wins and who looses from this deceptive grade ambiguity?

I'll betcha the seller knows GIA would give these diamonds lower grades than AGI did.
That's why they're cheaper.
It also explains why IDJ won't send them to GIA.
They'd be exposed.

Actually the way this works is these diamonds are almost certainly NOT cheaper.
The color and clarity grades are just lies.
Often with incorrect grades from questionable institutions diamonds actually sell for MORE than they'd sell for with the lower grades that GIA would deliver.
Many buyers don't get educated so they get ripped off.

Buyer beware.
I'd never buy a diamond in the USA without a lab report from either GIA or AGS.

This thread turns me off to IDJ.
 

kenny

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eugchen|1484873112|4116729 said:
not sure what you mean why wont they send it?

the pair of diamonds has AGI certificates, and they wont get GIA certs even if i pay for it. they are pretty much saying take these diamonds or leave it. they said if i want GIA diamonds, they will get me other diamonds that are GIA, but they will be at least a few thousand dollars more.

GIA diamonds don't 'cost more'.
They are just correctly graded.
In fact, the same diamond probably cost less with a GIA report (and the correct grades) than they'd cost with the better (but fraudulent) grades from a flakey lab or appraiser.

I'd run away from this vendor. :knockout:

BTW GIA grades diamonds (subject to the fine print on the back); they do not certify them.
If you use the term lab report instead of cert and you'll be perceived as a better-informed customer.

IMO, a vendor calling a diamond's paper a cert is a red flag, especially if it's actually only an appraisal.
An appraisal carries much less weight than a grading report from a legit lab.

Cert gives a customer false sense of comfort and assurance.
Rest assured that a grading report from AGS or GIA is as safe as you can get.
 

kenny

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Madison2|1484770227|4116313 said:
If you cannot afford the GIA diamond earrings, then by all means go for it.

I disagree.

Again, these almost certainly got much higher color and clarity 'grades' from ADI than what they'd get from GIA.
Ambiguous grades let sellers get away with overpricing diamonds.
Customers think they are getting a great deal, when they are actually being ripped off.

GIA diamonds don't cost more.
They are just accurately graded.
 

PintoBean

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I don't believe IDJ isn't being transparent. They point blank told OP if you want GIA diamonds that have these specs you will have to pay more because It's GIA and as others have stated above by past performance grades more Accurately than AGI and thus the price reflects this. You can't game the system by going AGI. Something has to give for OP.

Personally, when looking at diamonds in this price range, I would want GIA. Then again, people vary and AGI studs may suffice for your purposes, especially if you can take a look at them then return them.
 

PintoBean

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Also, I wanted to add that while I love working with IDJ, they aren't the only PS recommended vendors on the block. While IDJ has been knocking it out of the park for me, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the following vendors to check out as well that I have purchased from, in no particular order:
Brian Gavin Diamonds
Whiteflash
High Performance Diamonds
Brilliantly Engaged
Blue Nile
James Allen

However for th last 2 you'd need to do more leg work yourself IMHO.
 

kenny

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PintoBean|1484921667|4116860 said:
... Then again, people vary and AGI studs may suffice for your purposes ...

Yes people vary, but I don't think there is a single person who (after getting educated) wants to overpay and be deceived about the grades of their diamonds.
Nobody wants to pay a Lexus price for a Toyota with a Lexus nameplate on it that the dealer claims is a real Lexus with a 'certificate' to 'prove' it. :knockout:
People don't vary that much. ;))

Diamonds that are over-graded, overpriced, and misrepresented do not 'suffice' for anyone's purpose.
 

PintoBean

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kenny said:
PintoBean|1484921667|4116860 said:
... Then again, people vary and AGI studs may suffice for your purposes ...

Yes people vary, but I don't think there is a single person who (after getting educated) wants to overpay and be deceived about the grades of their diamonds.
Nobody wants to pay a Lexus price for a Toyota with a Lexus nameplate on it that the dealer claims is a real Lexus with a 'certificate' to 'prove' it. :knockout:
People don't vary that much. ;))

Diamonds that are over-graded, overpriced, and misrepresented do not 'suffice' for anyone's purpose.
i read OP's comments differently. I read them as the AGI pair being cheaper because the price reflects what they truly are, and that a GIA pair would cost more because the price for that pair reflects what the reports state more accurately.

I don't know how educated a consumer the OP is, which is why I think he should look at other vendor sites as well to get an understanding of price differences correlating to reports issued by different labs.
 

kenny

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PintoBean|1484939043|4116976 said:
i read OP's comments differently. I read them as the AGI pair being cheaper because the price reflects what they truly are, and that a GIA pair would cost more because the price for that pair reflects what the reports state more accurately.

You write, " ... the price reflects what they truly are ..."

Therein lies the rub.
What they 'truly' are is not known and can be all over the grade map ... read on ...

Grades from some EGL and other flaky labs, grades assigned by the vendor itself, or by an 'appraiser' that works for the vendor are not reliable.
There is no single correction factor (of, say, 2 grades each) for color and clarity.
Since there is no way to know the true grades there is no way to know what a fair price should be.
Now, guess whether this unknown benefits the seller or the buyer. :Up_to_something: :devil: :Up_to_something: :devil: :Up_to_something: :devil:

In the 12 years I've been reading PS I've seen reports by our most respected pros that the grades can be up to 5 grades off.
I've also read ambiguously-graded diamonds would usually sell for LESS with a GIA report reporting the worse (but true) grades.

Why pay more?
Why pay more when getting less?
Why pay more when getting less and being lied to about the grades?
And why give any business to a vendor who'd try to get away with this?

Again grade ambiguity benefits sellers, not buyers.
Buying diamonds that were not graded by a reputable lab is a sucker's game.
IMO it's fraud.
Imagine if they did this with carat weight ... and grades affect value just as much as weight does.

Buying ambiguously-graded diamonds is gambling, but as with all gambling the odds are with the house.
At least at Vegas one in a zillion suckers actually wins something.

I don't think we at PS should be encouraging this deception.
Diamonds graded by GIA or AGS are not more expensive.
They are just accurately graded.
Ambiguously-graded diamonds are almost certainly more expensive when their true grades are revealed.
 

eugchen

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hello, im the OP, and i would like to clarify the situation...you guys are the best by the way! i love the discussion and wealth of knowledge. there are so many crooks out there trying to scam, i do feel that IDJ ISNT trying to do that, but no doubt they are trying to unload this pair to someone!

heres the deal...i was looking for something in this neighborhood,

4 carat round total weight diamond studs, GIA, SI1-SI2, H-G color, EXCELLENT cut, all for around 25K. was willing to go up a bit to 26-27, but didnt want to get near 30K. i know with studs clarity not that crucial since you are farther away from the diamonds.

i looked around at all the sites and searched alot, bluenile, B2C, zoara, whiteflash, IDJewelry, etc....and everything is coming out at around 25-30K, which is in my price range.

well after being in contact with all the vendors on what i was looking for, IDJ contacted me with this pair in question that has no GIA.

the AGI papers you see are suspicious as there is no schematic on the diamonds on the papers.

i talked to the owner about these diamonds, and he said as he is looking at them now, if he were to grade them as GIA criteria, they would be H-I, SI2-I1, excellent cut. he even sent me photos of them from an iphone and they look ok. not great, but ok. by the way, price on these is $21,500.

i asked to get cert by GIA and they said no.

so from my stance, i was thinking, if the diamonds look good to me and my wife, who cares about GIA papers? i could save a cool 5K if it turns out ok.

problem is that i dont live in NYC, where they are, im in LA, and i wont see them. they offered me a FREE 14 day money back with free shipping, but im not sure i want to deal with the hassle.

i think ill pass on these.
 

kenny

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eugchen|1484951738|4117121 said:
if the diamonds look good to me and my wife, who cares about GIA papers? i could save a cool 5K if it turns out ok.

Who cares?
Anyone who does not want to be ripped off.
You write, "If it turns out okay" ... please define turning out okay ... I hope you mean you get them graded by GIA and all the grades/specs exactly match what that seller's appraiser claimed.
If that happens I'll eat my hat.

If turning out okay means you get a warm and fuzzy feeling in your gut when your lady kisses you ... then I give up.
You deserve to get ripped off.

If you buy these you will NOT, "save a cool 5K".
You'll overpay by thousands compared to buying GIA or AGS-graded diamonds.

I could cherry pick two diamonds (one 4 times the price of the other) that would look 'the same' your or my untrained eyes.
The only difference is the color and clarity grades.
One is D IF but the other is several grades lower ... identical weight, cut, and fluorescence etc.

IOW you and I should not trust our eyes.
Natural human perception is not adequate and not to be trusted to grade diamond color and clarity, no matter what a flakey vendor tells you.

I hate when posters here say, "All that matters is you love it" or "If a diamond makes your heart race then buy it; it's meant to be". :roll:
Diamonds grades are too subtle for the untrained eye to discern, but the price difference is not subtle at all.
That's why we need independent reputable labs like GIA and AGS to grade them.

Your question is, " if the diamonds look good to me and my wife, who cares about GIA papers? "
The answer is, "Any buyer who does not want to be ripped off".

Many, perhaps most, sellers will be delighted to take from you much more than the diamonds are worth.

I recommend GIA/AGS graded rounds from Whiteflash, Briangavindiamonds, Goodoldgold, or Highperformancediamonds with a GIA or AGS report that score under 2.0 on the HCA and have good Idealscope images since the HCA score is not good enough to make a final selection.
HCA is a rejection tool, not a final acceptance tool.
Just buy whatever combination of size, color and clarity your preference and budget allows.
They will be the best diamonds you can get for your budget.
 

PintoBean

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PintoBean|1484939043|4116976 said:
kenny said:
PintoBean|1484921667|4116860 said:
... Then again, people vary and AGI studs may suffice for your purposes ...

Yes people vary, but I don't think there is a single person who (after getting educated) wants to overpay and be deceived about the grades of their diamonds.
Nobody wants to pay a Lexus price for a Toyota with a Lexus nameplate on it that the dealer claims is a real Lexus with a 'certificate' to 'prove' it. :knockout:
People don't vary that much. ;))

Diamonds that are over-graded, overpriced, and misrepresented do not 'suffice' for anyone's purpose.
i read OP's comments differently. I read them as the AGI pair being cheaper because the price reflects what they truly are, and that a GIA pair would cost more because the price for that pair reflects what the reports state more accurately.

I don't know how educated a consumer the OP is, which is why I think he should look at other vendor sites as well to get an understanding of price differences correlating to reports issued by different labs.
Kenny,

I feel like you are getting more excited about my responses than need be. I want to add that when I said that people vary and the AGI studs may suffice for your purposes to the OP, that was me trying to politely say, OP is a grown ass man/woman and if s/he wants to spend their money this way, so be it, shrug... not my money, not my significant other, not my child.
 

flyingpig

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I would not buy a house without proper home inspection. I would not buy a car without checking vehicle history and/or car inspection.
I would not buy a diamond without GIA/AGS lab report in the US/Canada and Pacific Asia.

I am 100% with Kenny.
 

eugchen

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ok good points, i take them all with an open mind. let me elaborate more what i meant by this...

to my limited knowledge of diamonds, if a diamond sparkles, is eye clean, and looks "good" to my wife and her friends, that is what will probably matter in the long run. i most likely wont sell this diamond on the secondary market, so papers or no papers might not matter.

but as i read what you say, i agree with you on many points. of course i dont want to be ripped off. my gut feeling is that im NOT BEING ripped off, the lower price i am getting is due to the diamond being flawed in many ways.

1. NOT GIA certified. two exact same diamonds, one with GIA, and one with nothing, a premium will be paid on the GIA one.
2. being a BS appraisal agency AGI, the G color the papers say along with the SI1 is overstated several grades over im sure.
3. uncertainty as to exactly what im getting (since i cannot see the product)

so im contending that my options are as such.
1. go with GIA diamonds, 4 ctw, H color, SI1 - $27,500
2. go with these AGI diamonds, 4 ctw, I-J color in reality, SI2-I - $21,500

so what im saying is that the $6,000 discount im getting is due to those three things, no GIA papers, inferior diamonds, and uncertainty without seeing the diamonds. i dont see this as overpaying. im paying for what it is. i cannot buy these same diamonds with GIA cert, period. at least to my knowledge.

to me, its just like buying a new car for $40,000 vs a used car with $30,000. it is cheaper for a reason, they arent the same product, and i recognize that.

but like i said, i have been convinced by the wonderful people on PS that are looking to help each other that i do not want to buy these diamonds and would rather pay $25-27K for some diamonds i am more comfortable with and more transparency.

any opinions are welcome!
 

kenny

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screen_shot_2017-01-20_at_0.png
 

flyingpig

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eugchen|1484955806|4117157 said:
to me, its just like buying a new car for $40,000 vs a used car with $30,000. it is cheaper for a reason, they arent the same product, and i recognize that.

I would like to correct your analogy; "a used car with $30,000 without car inspection"
 

eugchen

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no idea what that screenshot means kenny, you are leaving and done with the conversation?
 
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