How is this strategy???

[peekay]

I am having a really difficult time finding the right diamond at the right price.

I want a round 2.2-2.5 carat, I-J color, premium-ideal cut, and VS2-SI2 (doesn''t matter as long as eye-clean without magnification).

I want to spend around 15-17k, which I know is really stretching it given the above parameters.

In light of that, I believe my best bet would be to get an eye clean SI1 or SI2. My problem is that I can''t call up the online vendors and ask them to find out everything about a virtual diamond.

My new strategy is to look at EGL stones at VS2 and maybe H color. I figure by definition, VS2 means that it has to be eye clean without magnification. I would step up to an H bc the EGL standards may be looser than GIA or AGS. Correct me if I''m wrong, but since a premium or Ideal cut isn''t graded subjectively, that is, it is a mathematical formula based on angles and measurements, therefore an EGL Premium or Ideal is equivalent to an GIA or AGS grade.

This will allow me to look at way more diamonds since I can just search for VS2, I, Ideal, and 2.2-2.5 carat.

Does this sound right to you all? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ellen]

Have you considered a really well cut K? There are a couple people on the boards with them that are very happy. Clarity in this one isn''t an issue. And you can also ask them to check the color on their machine to see if it''s low or high. Just a thought!

16, 556.90 with bankwire

http://204.17.89.15/diamond/2735/

 

[peekay]

thank you Ellen for that link. I will give them a call to find out.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 11/9/2007 6:49:46 PM
Author: peekay
thank you Ellen for that link. I will give them a call to find out.

I think it''s definitely worth that, at least. Very pretty stone.

Let us know what you find out!

 

[Regular Guy]

yoo hoo. Did you call me? I think so.

See below my signature for strategy B to widen. If EGL, pick only USA. Ask the vendor to help you identify these.

The difference between EGL USA and other EGLs is substantive...as you can read here.

Warm regards,

 

[peekay]

That is an awesome diamond. As between the rock Ellen suggested, and the one Ira Z suggested, which one would you all prefer?

Also, are the prices from GoG and WF negotiable? Is there a Pricescope discount? Thanks.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That''s a hard choice. Both are excellent as far as cut goes. I''d for sure choose J over K color. But you can see a lot of inclusions in the J SI2 on the idealscope, etc. So I would have to ask WF if that stone is eyeclean from the top AND sides before I would buy it. I would probably only choose a K if I was going to put it in an antique setting.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 11/9/2007 6:59:58 PM
Author: Regular Guy
yoo hoo. Did you call me? I think so.

$16,3 with wire pricing...and pricescope discount.

Run the search by cut, above under prices, to see both options ( I think...at least mine).

Maybe they''d negotiate further, but maybe not.

Work the relationship, too.

Regards,

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Good Old Gold has their wire price listed on their site, and WF gives a 5% discount on ACA stones for wire payment and mentioning that you are a PS member.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just found another one that I think I''d prefer over the two already listed. It is just slightly under your 2.2 minimum at 2.16 cts. It is a J VS2 at $16,488 (with discounts).

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-65878.htm#

 

[peekay]

Date: 11/9/2007 11:08:28 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I just found another one that I think I''d prefer over the two already listed. It is just slightly under your 2.2 minimum at 2.16 cts. It is a J VS2 at $16,488 (with discounts).


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-65878.htm#

Diamondseeker, assuming the J, SI2 rock is eyeclean, why do you prefer that one over the other two>?

 

[Regular Guy]

Peekay,

A few things.

1) I found it a bit odd to come in with those precise constraints (above 2.2), but...having come in with them...the one I found...I thought was just waiting for you.
2) Interesting comments above about seeing the inclusion in the IS. The best advice on getting an opinion on the visibility of inclusions (Garry recently suggested not to hold your breath for this size for an SI2) is to have an expert look at it. So you''d want to do that. Looking at the cert, it looked pretty good, but...I don''t know how helpful that is.
3) The slightly smaller VS2 also has cherry proportions. If I were you, I''d definitely ask a gemologist at WF to look at both, and comment on preferences they''d have between the two, and ask why the preferences.
4) Questions I have about the VS2...proportion wise, it maps right into AGS0 territory. Why wasn''t it submitted to AGS, regardless of it not meeting their own criteria for ACA...if that''s why it''s not an ACA.

But...no doubt...the VS2 is more likely to be eyeclean. If that''s a stark criteria for you, it may be a better bet. Overall, I''d go for a balanced judgement on this. I''m guessing you picked the 2.2 because you looked around, saw how far your money could go, and wanted to stand on your tippy toes. Consider both. Standing flat on the ground is fine.

Regards,

 

[peekay]

alright, just got off the phone with GoG and WF. The 2.28 at WF is a superior cut to the 2.16, but the 2.28 has a white feather inclusion visible at 8.xx cm''s, or 3".

The GoG one is the whitest K I''ll ever see, according to Jonathan there. It has no inclusions seen from the naked eye.

WF 2.16 costs 16,585 mounted.
WF 2.28 costs $16,285 mounted.
GoG 2.28 costs ~$17,256 mounted.

If price was equal, I''d go for the GoG 2.28 bc I don''t think my gf or any non-expert can tell a difference between a great K and a J without having them side-by-side. The GoG 2.28 is 8.52x8.55 whereas the WF 2.16 is 8.37x8.41mm.

1. Is that a visible difference in size between the WF 2.16 and GoG 2.28?
2. Which one would you guys prefer?

Since I am paying cash, $1000 in difference is a meaningful difference

 

[peekay]

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?__fun_frm=i&track=view_details_btn&elem=img&pid=LD01083441&filter_id=0#grading_report

Found this one on BlueNile. How do you guys like it compared to the other 3 mentioned in this thread? I called BN and they said it''s eye clean from 8" away. It registers a 1.0 on the HCA.

PLEASE HELP! I need to make a decision this afternoon to make her birthday on Saturday!

 

[Ellen]

Go with the WF 2.16.


And next time don''t wait til the last minute!

(the difference between the GOG and WF stones is not worth the money)

 

[surfgirl]

Ditto ellen, go with the 2.16, it''s a better looking stone, stats wise, IMO. Your gf isn''t going to notice a dramatic difference between .10cts anyway, and that said, I''d much prefer a better color/clarity than the K stones...(sorry ellen!)...

 

[peekay]

Thank you Ellen. How about the 2.16 compared to the BN 2.51? I can''t see anything wrong with the BN one, yet it is priced so low. The 2.51 size is just so attractive. This literally is coming down to the wire.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 11/12/2007 6:03:27 PM
Author: peekay
Thank you Ellen. How about the 2.16 compared to the BN 2.51? I can''t see anything wrong with the BN one, yet it is priced so low. The 2.51 size is just so attractive. This literally is coming down to the wire.

Yessss, it is, isn''t it?? Makes one wonder.....

And you don''t have time to get it and have it independently appraised, which I wouldn''t advise getting without one. But I really believe the WF stone is probably better/safer.



surfgirl, no apology necessary, I just threw it out there! It''s a great stone for someone who doesn''t mind the color.

 

[peekay]

this is crazy but I am seriously considering buying both of them and returning one of them. Put one on the credit card, and the other with a bank transfer. UGH. If I only started earlier and not procrastinated.........

 

[Sharon101]

My advice as a female is dont buy hastily to meet a bday deadline. Give another present and or let her know the present is coming.....but dont buy in a huge fenzied rush!!! You will end up choosing something you might not have otherwise. Also I personally wouldnt be buying a K unless I wanted an antique setting look. I would push the clarity as low as you can handle and the color as high as you can afford !!!! imo

 

[mercoledi]

The BN GIA states "Clarity is based on clouds not shown" which would make me nervous. Can someone at BN look at it for you? if, not I''d stick with the smaller WF stone. Do you really think she can see the difference between a 2.18 and a 2.5? I know I''d stop listening after "two..."!

Good luck!

 

[peekay]

Date: 11/12/2007 6:22:27 PM
Author: mercoledi
The BN GIA states ''Clarity is based on clouds not shown'' which would make me nervous. Can someone at BN look at it for you? if, not I''d stick with the smaller WF stone. Do you really think she can see the difference between a 2.18 and a 2.5? I know I''d stop listening after ''two...''!

Good luck!

yes, they looked at it and said the clouds and the one feather are not visible from 8" away. I don''t know the difference between 2.18 and 2.5. I remember visiting a brick and mortar store and it took about .5 carat difference to see a meaningful difference......

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 11/12/2007 6:22:27 PM
Author: mercoledi
The BN GIA states ''Clarity is based on clouds not shown'' which would make me nervous. Can someone at BN look at it for you? if, not I''d stick with the smaller WF stone. Do you really think she can see the difference between a 2.18 and a 2.5? I know I''d stop listening after ''two...''!

Good luck!

Mercoledi, good find. Peekay, see linked...

Buying both may or may not help...but couldn''t hurt. Not sure how well even an appraiser can spot this sort of thing. Hopefully they can. But...do they see diamonds with the sort of frequency that diamond sellers...who sell diamonds in qualtity...do?

 

[peekay]

thanks Regular Guy for that link. It appears that diamond is precisely the type that was cautioned against in the link. The people at BN are less than helpful, so I will probably pass on this one.

The WF guy is offering to send me both the 2.28 and the 2.16 for my review. I may take him up on the offer, but I''d really like to see the GoG 2.28 instead. Maybe a comparison between the WF 2.16 and the GoG 2.28. But I don''t think I can ask them since I need both to be mounted.

 

[gontama]

Date: 11/12/2007 7:39:20 PM
Author: peekay
thanks Regular Guy for that link. It appears that diamond is precisely the type that was cautioned against in the link. The people at BN are less than helpful, so I will probably pass on this one.

The WF guy is offering to send me both the 2.28 and the 2.16 for my review. I may take him up on the offer, but I''d really like to see the GoG 2.28 instead. Maybe a comparison between the WF 2.16 and the GoG 2.28. But I don''t think I can ask them since I need both to be mounted.

I think it is a very good idea if you can.

 

[jerseygrl]

I just posted about my great experience at ERD and I suggest you call Mark or Gary and ask them to get one for you.

I just found this one on their website:
2.42 J, VS2 (GIA Excellent), $15,930

They have a lot of stones that meet your parameters on their page of ''virtual'' stones available- go to "premium selection" sort by CARAT from high to low, and go to page 2, or use this link if it works...
http://engagementringsdirect.com/search.php?uriflag=&page=2&cut_type=Premium&shape=B&order=carat&druh=DESC&standart=1&page_limit=300

 

[peekay]

per JerseyGrl's advice, I looked at these rocks:
http://engagementringsdirect.com/loose_detail.php/session/3699da221d8664a2b762d4cc4bdc9c06/id/12755148/sz/150
http://engagementringsdirect.com/loose_detail.php/session/3641d230416a7402a652573061bef12d/id/10799452/sz/150

The GIA report on both look great. Cut=excellent. However, when I pull the GIA report and enter the numbers into the HCA, it comes out with:

First one:
Selected: 62.4% depth, 56% table, 35.5° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.9 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

Second one:
62.2% depth, 58% table, 35.5° crown angle, 41.2° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 4.6 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

Why is there a disparity between the GIA cut rating and the HCA rating? I thought cut meant how good the "brilliance" is and so does the HCA? Is the HCA just a super-stringent standard that mere amateurs like myself will not notice a real life difference?

To be honest, I watched the videos on the GoG's website about cut quality and couldn't really see the difference between a great cut and only an ok cut. Many times on the video, I had a hard time telling which was which and could only see a difference when I was searching for one.

 

[Ellen]

Cut IS what makes for a beautiful, brilliant, firey diamond. You have that part right!

Unfortunately, GIA includes what are called steep/deep (crown & pavillion angles) in the EX category. At the combos of these stones you found, there's bound to be leakage, possibly a lot. They are not the best cut stones of the bunch, regardless of having an EX cut grade.

The HCA is a tool to let you know whether to proceed on a stone for more info. Admittedly, it prefers numbers a bit more towards the shallow side. But in this case, it wouldn't matter who you asked, nobody would recommend these stones, the angles are too much. And they're rounded, so they could be even worse.


Peekay, you're trying to get the biggest stone for the cheapest price, and that's not the best way to go about getting a diamond. Remember, you DO get what you pay for.

As Sharon said, this is an important purchase, please don't rush it. If you want to ship a couple stones somewhere and compare them, I think that's a fantastic idea. And if it means you have to put off the proposal for a few more days, so be it. Getting the right stone is far more important than getting a bargain, or proposing on a certain day.

 

[Ellen]

Did you ever pick one peekay?

 

[peekay]

Ellen, I couldn't choose between cut v. size, so I bought two stones and will let her pick.

1. WF 2.16 listed above.
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-65878.htm
2. WF Virtual stone 2.42 above.
http://engagementringsdirect.com/loose_detail.php/session/3699da221d8664a2b762d4cc4bdc9c06/id/12755148/sz/150
Here are the pics and sarin report of 2.
Ugh, I can't get them to hyperlink! I'll try again later.
Which one do you like better, why? I can't read a sarin report at all!
James from WF has been remarkable!