Is there a Radiant Cut Advisor?

[smh]

Is there a Radiant Cut Advisor?

I would like to plug the numbers in, but the Holloway advisor is for round only.

Thanks,
SMH

 

[oldminer]

I have some charts and grading tools for these on my website, BUT they are screening tools only. You MUST actually see fancy shapes to judge their relative beauty and appeal. There are so many variables that charts can''t begin to cover, that they serve only as aids, not final decision makers.

 

[smh]

Thank you for the reply. I understand, I have printed your chart and keep it right next to me. I am having trouble, seems like it is difficutl to purchase a Radiant cut without seeing it first. From your exeperience would you say the 60-65% table and depth is truly Ideal or would you go one way or another on the precentage. What measurements would your Ideal Radiant have? I know Crown angle is a factor, but many I see are 8-10% I really want to minimize the chances of getting a stone I don''t like.

Thanks for your help,
smh

 

[oldminer]

A higher crown tends to be rather difficult to find, but part of most nicer looking stones. It is difficult to really find a well cut, brilliant radiant. They are not generally a well cut stone, but cut for price and weight. You must look. Parameters may help you, but can hold you back from looking at an unusual stone with poor numbers that truly looks amazing. It is a physical examination that must happen..... The chart may help you, but it can hinder the selection.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Hi SMH:

I agree entirely with David's advice. At my company we measure far more parameters than are included in the AGA chart, but still must examine each diamond visually to ensure that the cut quality meets our standards. Radiants must be seen to be fully evaluated. If you are buying online, you're trusting the judgment and expertise of your vendor, and are, in essense relying on the vendor's eyes, so make sure that you choose a vendor you can trust.

Remember, many diamonds listed on the internet are "data base" stones, that the vendor has never seen. Make sure that they order the diamond in and describe it to you after they've actually seen it. Any description based solely on numbers is at best an educated guess.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Dear Sydney Morning Herald,
You are getting advised by 2 of the worlds leading experts.

As the HCA inventor I will rate any colorless radiant for you on this scale.

Dull
Very Dull
Very Dull and showing a fair bit of color.

(as you can see I am a great fan - but it is a personal thingy about not liking the crushed ice / frozen spit)

But when it comes to light / pale fancy colored stones - it leaves the Round brilliant for dead.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Ya think Garry is a fan of the radiant cut?????
( thankfully MANY MANY MANY people do NOT share Garry''s opinion)


Anyway SMH- with all due respect, I have had this conversation so many times:
Consumer: What''s the right table on an Ideal Cut super Duper excellent cut?
Me: You can not determine if a diamond is well cut by knowing the table size.
Consumer: Yes, but what table size should I look for?


ARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[smh]

Thanks for all the replies, I REALLY appreciate all the help!!!

Well, what is a guy to do? Who''s opinion do I trust, is it the same as mine? I know that I am not going to purchase a round, Radiant is my next choice. I don''t have an unlimited budget, but I believe in buying quality. With that said, what do I do? The Brick n'' Mortar stores I have visited before learning from Pricescope always claimed they sell top quality cuts, but never mentioned table and depth in a verbal form, maybe gave me a flyer and said cut is important. So I want the most control, but don''t want to get caught up in too many numbers. I just want the stone to sparkle like crazy and don''t want to have to deal with sending a stone back and forth.

Still Confused,
SMH

 

[diamondsbylauren]

I can totally understand how difficult this might seem.
Talk to one peron, they tell you one thing, someone else tell you a totally different story. Pushy salespeople.
This certainly makes a formula an appealing alternative.

If you think about it, you can probably separate the wheat from the chaff- as far a if the salesperson is bullspitting you.
If you''re in an area with a store wich carries some radiant cut diamonds, have a look. You''ll know when you see a stone you like.
If you''re looking for a stone above 1.00, and a budget above $4000, restrict your shopping to stones with a GIA report.

If you find a stone you''re interested in, post the numbers and stat from the GIA reprot, and people may give you some ideas what they think.
Of coure your eyes are the final arbiter.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/21/2005 7:34:05 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren


Anyway SMH- with all due respect, I have had this conversation so many times:
Consumer: What's the right table on an Ideal Cut super Duper excellent cut?
Me: You can not determine if a diamond is well cut by knowing the table size.
Consumer: Yes, but what table size should I look for?


ARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that anyone else on this forum is spared....

Where on Earth do these question start from.... just the sheer fact that there is little else on the lab report?

 

[coda72]

smh, my best advice to you is this. Go to radiantcut.com and find a jewelry store that carries Original Radiant Cuts that is close to you. Go there and have them show you all the Original Radiant Cuts they have and purchase one of them. You are pretty much guaranteed to get a beautiful stone. You seem so conflicted about buying online that I would not advise buying online for you. If you go to a store with generic radiants, you will see many poorly cut stones. Most radiants aren''t cut that well, and it''s hard to find a good generic. I think the better generics are sold online for a better price, but I''m not sure online buying is for you.

 

[smh]

Thanks Coda72,

The closest original radiant cut store to me is in Boston about 1hour away. I might take a look, but it''s hard for me to conceal a trip to Boston from my GF. I am fairly certain I will purchase online, I just trying to gather as much information as possible. Now I am at critical mass, I think I have what I need to make a good decision.

Thanks,
smh

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/22/2005 8:00:21 AM
Author: smh
Thanks Coda72,

The closest original radiant cut store to me is in Boston about 1hour away. I might take a look, but it''s hard for me to conceal a trip to Boston from my GF. I am fairly certain I will purchase online, I just trying to gather as much information as possible. Now I am at critical mass, I think I have what I need to make a good decision.

Thanks,
smh

Smh, many of us have been where you are now, buying online can require a " leap of faith " at times, however we are very glad we have done so

Coda makes a good point in as much that buying online might not be the best way to go about it for you, however most vendors have a good return policy and very helpful and experienced staff who will guide you through the process. That is great that you feel your time here has been worthwhile, remember you have an advantage in buying online compared to many as you have taken the time to research and ask questions. I hope you find what you are looking for and are both delighted with it

 

[coda72]

smh, if you do want to buy online, here''s what I would do if I were you. I''d pick one or two vendors at the most and have them locate stones for you. There are more stones out there than what''s listed on the pricescope database, and the vendors have access to them. Give them your exact parameters, and I''m sure they will be able to find a stone for you that meets your requirements. Now, granted, it may take a little while, even a couple of months. But if you''re not in a huge hurry, this is probably your best way to go. That way you will get a beautiful stone the first time around without having to send it back. For the vendors, James Allen seems to be a good one to locate stones for you and possibly one other one. I wouldn''t work with more than two vendors and maybe would only work with one.

 

[smh]

Thank you, I think I just need to close my eyes and jump

The next step is finding the setting "she" really likes. I have some Ideas, but it will take a little time, I am leaning toward picking it out together, but would love to surprise her with it.

smh

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/22/2005 8:41:59 AM
Author: smh


The next step is finding the setting ''she'' really likes.

Would a ''temporray setting'' work?... so that you gte to give a ring and let her choose too. Who knows, the simple setting might just be it after all.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Everyone!

Actually it is possible to find an online dealer who carries the Original Radiant Cut.

As far as generics- well cut ones DO exist. Buying an Original does eliminate any potential doubt- but surely dealers who do not carry the original - such as James Allen or Whiteflash- can find you a very nice non branded.


As far as settings- dealers who specialize in Radiant Cuts can show you some nice options.

 

[Ann]

With much respect to David and of course Stan, just because the stone is an Original Radiant Cut does not assure you it will be mind blowing.

I did exactly as Coda 72 suggested; locate a local jeweler who carries the ORC''s and have some brought in. Out of the 6 he brought in, not one was "the one". Why? who knows. Bad day, limited selection to start with, etc. .........................

IMHO, I was not impressed. I kept seeing that dreaded circle effect in the stone. To me they all looked like the bottom of a Coke bottle. While this may sound harsh, it is the truth. The jeweler just said well, they are all cut like that. I felt there had to be better out there. But I haven''t seen one yet and maybe that''s why I started looking at cushions.

SMH - keep looking, keep looking and deal with a knowledgable jeweler. Best of luck and looking to you. And have fun!

 

[smh]

Thanks Ann-

If you follow this thread to the pictures of the stone, does this one have the coke bottle bottom?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-i-interpret-mega-and-ideal-scope.36116/=

Thanks,
smh

 

[fancyrock]

smh - I''ve been there and done all that!! I completely understand what you are going thru...

We searched high and low, west to east... We started looking at diamonds in Alaska during a cruise we took. I was afraid to just buy one w/out doing any homework. So when we got back home (SoCal) then the serious search began. I went from liking the rectangle radiant to more squar-ish radiant. We''ve bought one and returned it b/c i learned more about it on PS and knew better what to look for. And all this time i was a chicken sh*t to buy online. It was so difficult to buy online. My thinking was... it''s a friggen diamond!

Finally, I decided to working with David''s charts/guidelines along w/ LOOKING them all, but it was hard to find what the chart says. Some stores even laughed at how ridiculous the numbers are on the chart. They said those numbers are not possible to produce. But i didn''t give up. When i finally found THE ONE, the numbers were "Ideal" for a radiant cut. I stop breathing just for a moment. I couldn''t believe my eyes. Even after all that I still didn''t call the vendor for many days. I finally got enough guts and called James Allen. By now, I became very skeptical. Jim was so nice to describe and assure me that this is a beautiful rock. There is no way i''d be disappointed. He had no problem paying for the postage so I can see it for myself. He said, "I know when you see it, this baby is not coming back to me!" He was so sure of it (and i wasn''t). We exchanged many emails and phone calls. I asked for the Idealscope image and the close ups. I wanted see where the inclusions are and to make sure the inclusions aren''t visible to the naked eye. Days passed... i had forwarded these images to the experts and get thier honest opinion. (yes, even CUT NUT

) They were all so helpful and honest. Now i''m ready to give Jim the okay to send it... This baby flew from NY to CA!!

When our "newborn" arrived... my fiance (now husband) took the box out and opened it...(my heart was pounding so fast)... Once i saw it i knew it was MINE.

There are many reputable vendors on PS... Let them know what you are looking for and they can work w/ you on all level of your concern. They are all wonderful people...!!! Love them all...!!!!!!!

Good luck on your search and keep us posted....

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Date: 11/22/2005 3:43:23 PM
Author: Ann
With much respect to David and of course Stan, just because the stone is an Original Radiant Cut does not assure you it will be mind blowing.

I did exactly as Coda 72 suggested; locate a local jeweler who carries the ORC''s and have some brought in. Out of the 6 he brought in, not one was ''the one''. Why? who knows. Bad day, limited selection to start with, etc. .........................

IMHO, I was not impressed. I kept seeing that dreaded circle effect in the stone. To me they all looked like the bottom of a Coke bottle. While this may sound harsh, it is the truth. The jeweler just said well, they are all cut like that. I felt there had to be better out there. But I haven''t seen one yet and maybe that''s why I started looking at cushions.

SMH - keep looking, keep looking and deal with a knowledgable jeweler. Best of luck and looking to you. And have fun!

Ann - I''m sorry that you didn''t like the Original Radiants that you saw. Are you sure they were authentic? I ask because under no circumstances have we ever sent out 6 diamonds for a customer to look at. Generally, the maximum we will send is 2. Sometimes we may send three, but never more than that.

If a store "brought in" 6 radiants for you to look at, they were not ours.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Ann- I should also correct my post.
Just because a diamond is an Original Radiant does not mean everyone will like it.
The "bucket of Crushed Ice" look is not for everyone- hence Hearts and Arrows Diamonds.
Personally, I prefer the less organized look of sparkle.



Firerock- It''s great that you got a gorgeous Radiant!
Personally, I do not agree with the categorizations of cut made on the AGA chart.
Using the chart could easily cause one to miss some great stones.

 

[Ann]

Hi there Stan,

Well, he told me they were!! (ha!) and that was the reason for my visit and he knew it. I used to have copies of 2 of the cert''s, but I''m sure they are long gone by now. I wanted to see your stones because I just knew they would all be spectacular.( I was looking for 3-4ct size) I did my research and ORC was at the top of my list. I was so disappointed, but as you say, ORC never would send out 6 stones, well, then maybe the jeweler is not such a nice guy and thought he was pulling the wool over my eyes.

But, those stones did have coke bottle bottoms!!!

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 11/22/2005 5:51:43 PM
Author: Ann
Hi there Stan,

Well, he told me they were!! (ha!) and that was the reason for my visit and he knew it. I used to have copies of 2 of the cert''s, but I''m sure they are long gone by now. I wanted to see your stones because I just knew they would all be spectacular.( I was looking for 3-4ct size) I did my research and ORC was at the top of my list. I was so disappointed, but as you say, ORC never would send out 6 stones, well, then maybe the jeweler is not such a nice guy and thought he was pulling the wool over my eyes.

But, those stones did have coke bottle bottoms!!!

Wow Ann! I''d say this guy was really NOT a nice guy.
When you say "Coke Bottle" it sounds as though he was showing you deep stones.

As I''ve said- I really love radiant cuts where you can''t pick out indivdual facet pattern on the bottom- simply because there''s too much sparkle.
When a deeper Radiant has an organized facet pattern it looks dark in the middile to me- kind of like a coke bottle.
Original stones simply never look that way.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Ann - If he didn''t show you our Original Radiant Certificates as well as the GIAs, then they were not ours.

I assume the "coke bottle" look you''re talking about is a black circle under the culet. If the circle is mild, it''s a look many people like. If the circle is too intense, the result of pavilion facets which are on too high an angle, the stone becomes unattractive. Like many things it''s a balance.

It''s also possible to have a radiant without that circle at all. This is the "crushed ice" or "kaleidescope" look that Garry Holloway hates, but most people love.

This is why cut quality is so important in radiants, and why there is no substitute for the visual hit of seeing them live.

 

[smh]

Hi RadiantMan-

If "YOU" were choosing a stone from the net, not an ORC, but a generic stone? What measurements would you absolutly have to have? This may really help me? Given you have not seen the stone?

Thanks so much,
smh

 

[RADIANTMAN]

If you check out my website, we provide information as to what we consider the optimal proportions for radiants. Note that the proportions must be adjusted to reflect the shape (square or rectangular) to be meaningful. While it''s a bit of an oversimplification, depths and tables dancing around 65 are probably your best bet if you can''t see the diamond yourself.

Unfortunately for internet shopping, though, the measurements do not tell the whole story. I''ve seen as many radiants as anyone, and still I can only make educated guesses as to what a radiant may look like, sight unseen, based on measurements. A radiant with a "perfect" GIA report can still be a poor stone, because of the many factors that are not included in the report.

If you''re buying online, pick a vendor who you trust and who has specific expertise in radiants. Make sure they examine the diamond carefully and describe to you what they see. You want a radiant with even life, and with minimal black reflections. If you cannot see the diamond yourself, you''re relying on the eyes and expertise of the vendor.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/22/2005 3:43:23 PM
Author: Ann

I kept seeing that dreaded circle effect in the stone. To me they all looked like the bottom of a Coke bottle.

... errr... 'Fish Eye'?

It does seem to be more accepted in fancy cuts for whatever reason, but striking 'fish-eye' does not come to mind about a fine cut, ORC included. In fact, I am not used to think of it as a common feature of radiant cuts (the good the bad and ugly) though... You must have been 'lucky' to find a few lined up. Unless we are talking of different things.

If 'coke bottom' and 'fish eye' is one and the same, than a less shallow pavilion will cure the problem. Thin girdles and larger tables would help, as much as I can tell. Now, what 'larger table' is depends on specific parameters and I wouldn't know to relate this to depth % by any means.


Did the jeweler follow a certain requirement common for all the stones (e.g. depth no more than.. etc) ?

 

[valeria101]

So... which one is 'coke bottle bottom' cut

... that image of a slimy bottle bottom sounds awful about anything 'diamond'

These were definitely not 'slimy' - 'bet someone would find good reason to love them. The pictures were taken at random to show some fish eye (concentric reflection of girdle into pavilion - left) and nail head (extinction under table - right). The stone to the right does not appear to be a typical radiant cut, but the optical effect is there and could conceivably be in a radiant as well. Looking for a convincing picture just gave me a shortcut from building a model.

 

[coda72]

With all the talk of "coke bottle bottoms", I thought I''d add my input to this. In every type of light except for one, and that''s direct sunlight, my radiant doesn''t have this effect. Somehow direct sunlight makes it look like there''s dark ring in the center. I don''t know why this is, but I''ve seen threads on here before to this effect, that most well-cut diamonds don''t look that good in direct sunlight. Mine still sparkles in sunlight, but it just doesn''t look as good as it does in other types of light. And by the AGA chart mine is a 1A, so I think even with well-cut diamonds, there''s certain types of light in which the diamonds don''t look that good.