GIA experts advice - reflector inclusion ??

[anns]

Hi,
I''m fairly new to this site, but have been following some of the threads for a couple of weeks. Have to say that I think it''s a great site and found it to be a fantastic source of info. Wondering if any of the experts can help me out.
I''m looking at a diamond which is a RBC, XXX, EVS2
table = 55%, depth = 62.2%, crown angle = 35, pavilion angle = 40.8
It''s laser inscribed with GIA cert.
From the top view, the cert. only shows minor inclusions. From the pavilion view there is 2 feathers shown. The feathers are on the outer edges of the diamond. I''ve attached an image.
The problem I have is that I can acutally see the feather with the naked eye (When I look at it closely from the side view of the pavilion. Looks like a tiny black dot). When I turn it around, the dot is reflected on more than one facet of the pavilion. (sorry if my terminology is not correct)
Is this what is referred to as a reflector inclusion ? What is the acutual definition of a reflector inclusion ? I can''t see the inclusion from the top view of the diamond, even with a 10x lens, but obviously can see it when I examine it cutlet side up. (thought that a reflector can be seen from the top view as well ? is that correct ??)
The jewelry tells me that it shouldn''t affect the look of the stone, and that they will try and hide the feather under the prong setting (getting a 4 prong setting).
Can the experts tell me wheather this is true ? Will it interfer with the brilliance/light of the stone ? Why does GIA grading still grade it as a VS2, if you can see the it with the naked eye. Question to the GIA gemologists, shouldn''t GIA mention on their certificates that there is a type of reflector inclusions ?
I would think that mentioning these types of detail on the cert. would give consumers more of an idea on what they''re buying. Expecially if all they have to go on is the GIA certificate.

Am I''m being picky, or is what I''m seeing not referred to as a reflector inclusion ? I''m not 100% happy with it, but unfortunately I already paid a deposit on the diamond. Thinking weather I should just not take the risk and maybe forget about my deposit.

My main concern is also weather the stone will be prone to chipping in the future if the feather is at the edge. If I can see the feather with my naked eye does it mean it''s a really big feather ?
The plotting on the cert didn''t look big to me which was why I chose the stone in the end. And I definitely never expected to see anything with my naked eye !!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. (sorry for the lengthy thread) Thanks heaps !!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/5/2007 2:15:54 AM
Author:anns


Hi,
I'm fairly new to this site, but have been following some of the threads for a couple of weeks. Have to say that I think it's a great site and found it to be a fantastic source of info. Wondering if any of the experts can help me out.


I'm looking at a diamond which is a RBC, XXX, EVS2
table = 55%, depth = 62.2%, crown angle = 35, pavilion angle = 40.8
It's laser inscribed with GIA cert. Hi Anns and welcome to Pricescope! I am not an expert, but I will try to get you started with what I know regarding your queries.


From the top view, the cert. only shows minor inclusions. From the pavilion view there is 2 feathers shown. The feathers are on the outer edges of the diamond. I've attached an image.
The problem I have is that I can acutally see the feather with the naked eye (When I look at it closely from the side view of the pavilion. Looks like a tiny black dot). When I turn it around, the dot is reflected on more than one facet of the pavilion. (sorry if my terminology is not correct)


Is this what is referred to as a reflector inclusion ?

Quite possibly. In some circumstances, an inclusion can reflect inside the diamond and this may be one that does.

What is the acutual definition of a reflector inclusion ? I can't see the inclusion from the top view of the diamond, even with a 10x lens, but obviously can see it when I examine it cutlet side up. (thought that a reflector can be seen from the top view as well ? is that correct ??)

Clarity grading is done face up, so even with a VS clarity you describe, you may see something from the underneath and sides.
The jewelry tells me that it shouldn't affect the look of the stone, and that they will try and hide the feather under the prong setting (getting a 4 prong setting).

I would think the inclusion wouldn't affect the look of the diamond, when set you may not be able to see the feather, but it depends on whether you can still see it reflected on the opposite side of the pavillion, see your vendor to make sure.


The inclusion should not however interfere with the brilliance and light performance of the diamond. Some VS diamonds do have a small visible inclusion, but this isn't always the case.
Can the experts tell me wheather this is true ? Will it interfer with the brilliance/light of the stone ? Why does GIA grading still grade it as a VS2, if you can see the it with the naked eye. Question to the GIA gemologists, shouldn't GIA mention on their certificates that there is a type of reflector inclusions ?
I would think that mentioning these types of detail on the cert. would give consumers more of an idea on what they're buying. Expecially if all they have to go on is the GIA certificate.

Am I'm being picky, or is what I'm seeing not referred to as a reflector inclusion ? I'm not 100% happy with it, but unfortunately I already paid a deposit on the diamond. Thinking weather I should just not take the risk and maybe forget about my deposit.

If you aren't happy with the diamond, then perhaps it might be best to find another one which better matches your idea of eyeclean - nothing wrong with that!! Your vendor could source you another diamond and transfer your deposit possibly. Is it an online vendor and does the vendor you are currently working with have a return policy?


My main concern is also weather the stone will be prone to chipping in the future if the feather is at the edge. If I can see the feather with my naked eye does it mean it's a really big feather ?
The plotting on the cert didn't look big to me which was why I chose the stone in the end. And I definitely never expected to see anything with my naked eye !!

Unfortunately, you can't tell much from the plotting diagram on the grading report on how a diamond will look in person for inclusions, especially from other angles. As to this diamond chipping due to the feather, it is probably unlikely.
Also what size is this diamond out of interest?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. (sorry for the lengthy thread) Thanks heaps !!!

Sorry for the rubbish job at trying to highlight and answer your post Anns, I hope it makes some sense to you!!!

 

[gunsuka]

The problem I have is that I can acutally see the feather with the naked eye (When I look at it closely from the side view of the pavilion. Looks like a tiny black dot). When I turn it around, the dot is reflected on more than one facet of the pavilion. (sorry if my terminology is not correct)

I am amazed you can see a feather with the naked eye in a vs2 stone. If you can see the feather it should not be appearing as something black.

My thoughts anyway.


Robert

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/5/2007 6:19:56 AM
Author: gunsuka

The problem I have is that I can acutally see the feather with the naked eye (When I look at it closely from the side view of the pavilion. Looks like a tiny black dot). When I turn it around, the dot is reflected on more than one facet of the pavilion. (sorry if my terminology is not correct)

I am amazed you can see a feather with the naked eye in a vs2 stone. If you can see the feather it should not be appearing as something black.

My thoughts anyway.


Robert

Actually this does come up at times that someone has seen something in a VS grade diamond with the naked eye, I think there are many factors at work such as individual eyesight, location, size of the diamond etc. It may or may not be the feather that is seen, it could be a small dark inclusion which is reflecting, or the feather could be presenting a dark appearance - I have one which appears dark for some reason.

 

[oldminer]

From underneath you can often see inclusions that remain invisible from the top view. This is normal and not problematic. A reflector inclusions is visible more than once, eventhough it is only a single inclusion actually in the diamond. Refraction creates multiple false images of the same blemish. Reflecting inclusions may have a bearing on clarity grade.

Any inclusions might play a role, however slight, in what happens with light return and light behavior. Surely, delicate, tiny inclusions, don''t play a major or even visible role, but if one is measuring with tools that have a higher degree of accuity than the human eye or more sensitivity than what is programmed into forecasting software, then one can positivly say inclusions generally alter the final light behavior measurement.

 

[anns]

Hi,

Thanks for your imputs. It''s a local place I''m looking at and they don''t really have a return policy. They where willing to let me choose another stone from their range (but they didn''t have anything else in stock that I really liked for my budget, and weren''t willing to try and source another stone for me).

Lorelei, FYI, it''s a 1.02 carat.
Yeah, my concern was that it might be prone to chipping if the feather is right on the edge

I, obviously learnt all this stuff too late.

Well, I believe it''s a feather I''m seeing, since the plotting doesn''t show anything else within that area. In my eyes, it looks like a black dot or spec of dust.

Just surprised that GIA would grade a stone with reflector inclusions as a VS2 grade though (and the fact that the cert. doesn''t mention this in their comments !!)
Any comments from GIA graders ???

 

[Lorelei]

Anns, I don't know if we have any actual GIA graders here, but maybe David or one of the other experts can give you some more advice. I think that a feather in a VS clarity grade is going to be tiny, so I wouldn't worry too much about it chipping personally, one of the pros please correct me if that is wrong? I put this to you....Many like a small visible inclusion as a way to personalize their diamond, that way, if their ring needs work, they can immediately recognise their stone. Would this be a possibility for you to think of this diamond's birthmark in that way?

Other than that, perhaps check on the vendor policies and your consumer rights carefully, as you have placed a deposit on the diamond, have they the right to keep it in your state if you change your mind about the purchase? It might be worth doing as from what I read from your post, your comfort level tends to be on the side of not seeing any inclusions anywhere, which is fine, but perhaps another VS might be a better fit.