Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...???

[Regular Guy]

Let's try to hold the right end of the stick...because we do have choices....particularly when purchasing (or not) items like furs, which are fully discretionary in nature.

Do we think there should be any ethical minimum standards applied to the item?

As the current argument goes....if you had thought that the current system of warrantees provided by the Kimberly Process were providing such a minimum standard, many voices, particularly lately championed by Martin Rappaport, would tell you that if you could articulate what your minimun standards were, they would probably be like his.

I actually anticipated this evolution, recently, here: post2683992.html#p2683992 , after Yoram initiated the discussion.

As of the Keynote address from a week ago, given apparently because he was invited to do so, Rappaport addressed the Indian Diamond Industry, the folks who have invested in the most recent set of troubling Zimbabwe diamonds, and told them they might contemplate along with him a Rappaport Minimum Standard, to wit...

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/pres ... 40066.html

"The Rapaport Minimum Standard:

“All diamonds that are legal and not directly involved in severe human rights violations should be freely, fairly and legally traded.”

Note: the phrase “directly involved in severe human rights violations” is defined as diamonds whose physical production involved murder, rape, physical violence or forced servitude.

Rapaport noted that while Kimberley Process (KP) certified Marange diamonds from Zimbabwe are legal in India and many other countries, there was no assurance that they were free of human rights violations."

Do you have any minimum ethical standards for your diamond purchases? If you do, what sorts of questions can you use to determine if you are getting what you want?

 

[oldminer]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

Knowledgeable diamond dealers must set the standard for diamonds as they initially enter the marketplace. If they choose to look the other way, then it becomes increasingly difficult to enforce meaningful standards further down the pipeline of distribution. You can't legislate ethics. It has to be something brought into your life early on by your parents and your community. Once a person is "shady" it rarely changes.

Consumers may be one of the best ways, but not the only way, to make the diamond business responsible for what it distributes. A willingness to pay a bit more for Fair Traded items, a growing understanding and distaste for items that might be bought from human rights abusers. These things will have a positive effect on what dealers decide to buy and what they decide they can reject. Having a certification process to insure that some or most diamonds are "clean" is beneficial. It will never be a cure.

Think of the many items we all willingly buy today which have come from sweat shops and unsafe facilities around the world. People making our electronics and clothing in foreign lands often, commonly, work in conditions of living and employment that we would find totally horrific, yet we buy and buy and buy. Where is the outrage for this? It does little good to target one relatively small item, diamonds, when we can live with the rest of the abuses heaped on workers who are kept out of sight and out of mind.

If consumers here had a general re-awakening of their consciences over what goes into each product they are going to purchase, the world might be vastly improved for many people who we will never hear from or see. I don't see the will to do it. We may talk about it, but we prefer to buy at Big Box Mart and from little Mom & Pop's a myriad of products made under conditions that are much the same as what the Kimberly Process might help alleviate for a relatively small number of people. The diamond business chooses to flog itself in public over things it cannot cure such as war, poverty and greed. Consumers have the power to force changes that distributors do not have.

The public is becoming increasingly aware of human rights abuses all over the world related to manufacturing, mining and distribution. At some time in the future, there may well be more will to make positive changes. I don't see much going to happen any time soon other than lots of talk. The talk will lead to action and that is positive. The timing is unknown.

 

[TakingthePlunge]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

From the consumer point of view I have no idea where the diamonds actually come from. There is no birth certificate on a stone so I simply have to trust the end dealers word that its a non-conflict piece. I dont think there are many dealers who would actively tell me they are selling blood diamond either.

I would surely pay a bit more for a "clean" stone but theres no way of proving it so it looks like it would just be marketing hype and me losing a few bucks at purchase time.

 

[kenny]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

When I buy I ask about provenance, history, origin etc.

Sellers claim they know nothing about where their diamonds come from, but "don't worry because of the KP, just trust me."
Diamonds must just fall from the sky.

I sense there is a code of silence.
This is partly understandable given diamond's high-value, security concerns and competitive proprietary concerns.

I doubt disclosure will become common.

 

[diagem]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

I guess Rapaport does believe a bit in KP

From: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/pres ... 40066.html

"....While RapNet - The Rapaport Diamond Trading Network - will not allow members to list KP certified Marange diamonds for sale due to U.S. sanctions, the network will not ban members who legally trade such KP certified diamonds off the network as long as the diamonds are not involved in severe human rights violations..."

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

don't care where mine come from as long as it sparkles.

 

[ValentinesJewelryDesign]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

Human rights violations are an attrocity and should be confronted by any means necessary. But the owness does not fall on the dealers. The insatiable desire by the American consumer to get the best quality, for next to nothing, has in some way inspired some of the worst human rights violations in our lifetime. If we hear that an item is "worth" $100 we instantly try to find it for $80......and this in turn drives down US profit margins and keeps most of the money off shore. If your local/state/national merchant doesn't receive much money from you, tehn how are they supposed to have money to spend to support your job or business? The Chinese sweatshops don't exist because we DON'T want their items.....on the contrary.....we can't get enough of them. And it's becoming a negative feedback cycle. As our average wages have decreased we increasingly consume Chinese goods which in turn causes us to lose more jobs and have less money. We asked for it and we got it. Let's face it, if we would just be willing to pay 15% more we could keep an American family afloat. How many of us have scoured the web and picked the lowest possible price, usually supplied by an emerging market. I doubt we would have these items as cheap as they are if these countries had labor unions and retirement plans. Do you realize that the coffee trade has been FAR more brutal and deadly than the Diamond trade? The bottom line is that until the American consumer decides to change the way they BUY, then you will always have companies selling goods that are sourced unethically. The next time you shop for a diamond, try to consciously NOT look for the stone that is $200 cheaper.....you'll be amazed at how little paying an extra $200 will affect your life, and how MUCH it may affect another's. I mention China but it applies to Zimbabwae, Myanmar, and other hotspots as well. And if the Average American consumer was really THAT concerned about the origin, they could just buy a Canadian sourced stone.....simple as that.....but wait, they cost MORE. The consumer, by default, has decided that a human life is worth paying 15% less.....you asked for it and then you condemn the vendor who sources it for you? Go figure......

Matt

 

[kenny]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

Human rights violations are an attrocity and should be confronted by any means necessary. But the owness does not fall on the dealers. The insatiable desire by the American consumer to get the best quality, for next to nothing, has in some way inspired some of the worst human rights violations in our lifetime. If we hear that an item is "worth" $100 we instantly try to find it for $80......and this in turn drives down US profit margins and keeps most of the money off shore. If your local/state/national merchant doesn't receive much money from you, tehn how are they supposed to have money to spend to support your job or business? The Chinese sweatshops don't exist because we DON'T want their items.....on the contrary.....we can't get enough of them. And it's becoming a negative feedback cycle. As our average wages have decreased we increasingly consume Chinese goods which in turn causes us to lose more jobs and have less money. We asked for it and we got it. Let's face it, if we would just be willing to pay 15% more we could keep an American family afloat. How many of us have scoured the web and picked the lowest possible price, usually supplied by an emerging market. I doubt we would have these items as cheap as they are if these countries had labor unions and retirement plans. Do you realize that the coffee trade has been FAR more brutal and deadly than the Diamond trade? The bottom line is that until the American consumer decides to change the way they BUY, then you will always have companies selling goods that are sourced unethically. The next time you shop for a diamond, try to consciously NOT look for the stone that is $200 cheaper.....you'll be amazed at how little paying an extra $200 will affect your life, and how MUCH it may affect another's. I mention China but it applies to Zimbabwae, Myanmar, and other hotspots as well. And if the Average American consumer was really THAT concerned about the origin, they could just buy a Canadian sourced stone.....simple as that.....but wait, they cost MORE. The consumer, by default, has decided that a human life is worth paying 15% less.....you asked for it and then you condemn the vendor who sources it for you? Go figure......

Matt

Even if everyone was willing to pay 15% more to maintain standard of living they would have no way of knowing whether they were just getting same thing from China and the seller is just pocketing that 15% extra profit.
What are we supposed to do, hire a private investigator for every item in our shopping cart?

Good bad right or wrong, people wanting lower prices (and companies finding ways to compete to offer them) is never going to change.

Another way to look at it is the standard of living is now improving in China and India.
When labor gets too expensive to make people buy tons of cheap crap they don't need at WalMart they'll move manufacturing to Africa.
Then when African wages get too high they'll probably move manufacturing back to USA.
I'm being silly but you can take a global perspective, not just what do we do to keep the rich countries rich.

 

[Regular Guy]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

First...

don't care where mine come from as long as it sparkles.

DF, you're not really to be believed. Please see this recent, fairly current piece by Newsweek, here:

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/16/zimbabwe-allowed-to-sell-controversial-diamonds.html

including this text:

"In late 2008, government troops cracked down on the amateur miners. Human Rights Watch reported that soldiers tortured, beat, and shot those they accused of working the fields. As many as 200 died. Some were forced to dig mass graves. There were also accusations of forced labor, including children as young as 13."

Just pop into google: "Zimbabwe human rights violations diamonds."

There was another woman on Pricescope recently who feigned the same attitude. When you read this and give any thought to this, I do not believe that you will still think so. The saying "Don't think of a monkey" creates it's own challenges. DF, for your own benefit, I encourage you not to flaunt conventional mores.

Second,

To those who deem to take a sociological approach, and talk about what society will and will not do, I do not think this is properly mindful of the present opportunity that may exist to allow shoppers to have a choice concerning a more basic decision.

Recently, a crack developed in our upstairs toilet tank while we were on vacation, and our basement was badly flooded. We are in the process now of seeking many remedies, but it is clear that the one thing my wife succeeded in doing when we came home was the one thing that should have been done. She shut off the main water valvue.

Others, like Rapaport, have thought that KP could provide such a single location opportunity, so that when shoppers do seek authentic assurance about the goodness of a diamond, they would get this with KP. Yes, I know, still others knowledgeable say that without the compromise that has now gone down, a greater harm in the form of a) a more hurt Zimbabwe and b) a flood of uncertified diamonds would have caused a worse problem.

Overall, however, and regardless...the concept of a "minimum standard" of decency, that Rapaport is currently suggesting be brought forward....could go aways to make an idea like the Kimerly Process again an idea with some more broad based and meaningfully applicable teeth. Without such teeth, KP is dated. It is not without merit still, but it really needs to be brought up to date. Let's imagine people might actually care if workers, including woman and children, are hurt badly....and even killed...in the process of mining. This is even something they might actually grasp, versus what might even be a more complex notion that their dollars went to see that a war was not funded as a result of a purchase.

I am sorry more people on Pricescope are not more interested. I am glad some have chosen to comment. Still, the number who choose to read this thread shows plainly on this board.

I am sympathetic to the idea that people are basically good, and..this being the case...a properly presented communications campaign can encourage shoppers who are not also "seekers" to become drawn to a more ethical diamond. Thank goodness there are niche markets catering to this now, limited thought that they may be. But, people like Rap who have both vision and resources should be commended for trying to make the main line include the core principles...and not be left to some small market of folks who care for the good will of the workers.

I was reminded that Rap only this year resigned as the President of the World Diamond Council. He was the president! Apparently, having the bully pulpit can only accomplish so much. Learning to be as effective in this world, to accomplish good, is what we must strive to do.

Finally,

Yes, DF, getting a sparkly thing makes a teeny light brighter than it could be. But, please think a little bigger. There is more light to be had.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

RG...my opinions on these type of topics

if you ever stop to think about it...most of us would be running around naked if we stop buying conflicted clothes.our cars would stop running because we don't buy conflicted gas. yeah, see can it now...gas stations will post signs saying " gas refined from non conflict oil"

 

[kenny]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

RG...my opinions on these type topics

if you ever stop to think about it...most of us would be running around naked if we stop buying conflicted clothes.our cars would stop running because we don't buy conflicted gas. yeah, see can it now...gas stations will post signs saying " gas refined from non conflict oil"

Excellent point.
It's absurd how they've singled out diamonds.
I'll bet half the products in your house involve exploitive practices that you'd find offensive.
I'm waiting for some director to make a movie titled "BLOOD CAN OPENERS".

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

btw, i'm not a fan of Chinese products. IMO... Chinese made products are garbage ..in fact,i avoid buying Chinese made products whenever i can.

 

[arjunajane]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

Matt (and DF), thank you for your posts

This is something that troubles me, considering the massive popularity of Chinese-based factory mass-produced diamond mounts, the type that are very popular of recent in the CS forum amongst a reasonable number of PS posters (and who knows how many more lurkers).

I am not going to try to contrast the human rights atrocities and violations in diamond producing countries compared to manufacturing producing ones - they both have many distressing and horrific histories / experiences to their names.

But considering what we know about conditions in electronics manufacturing Chinese factories (multiple suicides, child labour, no food or toilet breaks, working 7 days a week and so on), it is not a stretch to realize the same things go on in the factories that produce gold and diamond mounts at overly cheap prices - plus other hazards to person and environment such as chemicals and acids which are common use to create these products.


Regular Guy, I hope you won't mind me bringing up this other, somewhat related concern in the consumption habits of jewellery instead of answering the original question. It is just something which has been on my mind quite a bit, and your thread prompted me to finally post it.

 

[Regular Guy]

Re: Ethical minimum standards for when you buy a diamond...?

It would seem as though there's a few truisms that recent posts bring to mind.

One...don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

If the enormity of a problem would seem to portend to be very large, we might be motivated, as DF says, to forget the whole thing, just give it up and run around naked, since we can't do anything.

In a man or woman's life, we are called upon to gather control around the things we can, and shape and make a life for ourselves. For those things we can name, and identify, and make better...in balance...we should do exactly that.

Blood can openers? I will imagine that a) either camera crews work with a level of efficiency enough that they haven't found them yet, actually, because they don't exist, or at least b) when such a possibility might come to my awareness, and an alternative to them is made known, yes, I would seek such an alternative out.

They say that a distinctive feature of being "middle class," or being "in the middle" socioeconomically, is that you can see where you've been, and where you're going, and there's a dissonance.

I should generally like to be grateful to be reminded and made aware of when conditions I would regard, and our larger society together with me, might find unaccaptable, and thereby alternatives to these are made known. We could include it in this thread..a listing of stores and sections within them where goods are "bad form."

Why don't we regard that we are not ourselves pushed down so far that we cannot make choices.

In Rapaport's early video with Garry Holloway, he talked about his original synthesis of ideas, and early included the buddhist idea of "causing no harm," that we could try to engage that idea.

This idea prompts now in my another. They say in Buddhism there are 6 realms of existence, ranging at the bottom, from hell, to the top, heaven. But, these are astutely seen as psychological realms, and where mankind can exist in all of them. Related to this, and to the idea that we can "become awakened, enlightened," is the idea that only in the "human realm" do we have this possibility. It is the psychological feature of being in the human realm where we experience that we DO have choices, and where we have preferences, that are incidentally actionable.

We should not forget our place in the world, and that we can make a difference. Little things are little things, and big things are big things, we should know the difference, and aspire to do them both. It's a short life, after all.