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Engagement Ring OEC - should we buy?

becauseyes

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
12
Hello again, PS!

Your help has been invaluable so far. My boyfriend and I are in the process of procuring a center stone. After a few weeks of searching, I think I've found a good contender. It's within our price range (though it's at the top at 12k...) and seems to meet everything I'd like in an OEC. I only hesitate because the grading report is EGL, which I've heard terrible things about on PS.

The stone will be mounted in yellow gold, so I'm fine going down in color, but GIA K was about as low as I'd go. I would prefer if the diamond wasn't too noticeably yellow. I am worried that the EGL J is more akin to a GIA L or M... The detail photo we requested from Adam (included below) is much more yellow than the listing photo. Could this just be a lighting issue? The diamond certainly does not appear that yellow in the video (also included).

The vendor is Adam at OWD.

Old European Cut Diamond
2.17 ct EGL J VS1
8.37x8.15x5.07 mm
Proportions:
Depth: 61.2%
Table: 57%
Crown: 15.9%
Pavilion: 42.6%
Girdle: Very thin to medium
Cutlet: Medium
Fluorescence: None

Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good

Video of the diamond: https://youtu.be/dLXhKRBMqzg
Photo: image1__7__0.jpg
 

iwantsparkle

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
308
"The stone will be mounted in yellow gold, so I'm fine going down in color, but GIA K was about as low as I'd go. I would prefer if the diamond wasn't too noticeably yellow. I am worried that the EGL J is more akin to a GIA L or M..."

If a GIA K is as low as you would go, then I worry you may find this to be too warm. Usually the stone looks whiter from that angle. So it could look even warmer from the side.

I am not an expert, but from what (little) I've read about EGL vs GIA, it may not be unreasonable to liken your stone to a GIA L or M.

You could always return it if you dislike it in person.

I have a GIA L (from Adam), and the image below looks warmer than any of the pics I've snapped (in various lighting). None of that means anything, though. You probably need to see it in person.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
25,387
Can you just ask Adam for an honest opinion about how would come out if it were graded GIA? Tell him you are not going to be
happy with a stone that comes out yellower than a GIA K. I would think he would be honest with you and why waste your time
(and his) to sell you a stone that you're going to return? Ask, it couldnt hurt.
 

Sagefemme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
290
It could be a lighting issue. I think your best bet is to ask Adam, who is very knowledgeable, what GIA color he thinks this stone is. He will be straight with you; he wants you to be happy. Also, if he sends you the stone and you find it too yellow you will just send it back and he will find another for you. When I was buying a stone from Adam I looked at a J, a K, and an L (all GIA, so apples to apples). Honestly it was impossible in face up view to distinguish which color was which, and I ended up choosing the L, which surprised me. But you can count on him to go the extra mile to make you happy with your final choice. You will probably need to see it in person.
 

ericad

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
2,033
Definitely ask your vendor his thoughts on color, and explain your personal tolerances. And ask about the stone's hue - top brown tinted stones can face up darker than comparable stones without brown tint. And the top brown won't be included on the lab grading.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
50,583
I agree with tyty and Sagefemme and trust Adam and I would ask him exactly what he thinks of this OEC. He will tell you the truth. He does want you to be happy with your choice and will absolutely go that extra mile to make sure you are. And because beauty is in the eye of the beholder he has a generous return policy especially compared to other vendors whose return policy is just a few days. Because seeing in person is critical with old cuts and it can take a while to get to know your old cut.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,342
You may have to order and look at multiple stones to decide what you like best. Color almost never can be accurately portrayed in pictures. So just send for it and look at it in different lighting. That is the only way you'll know for sure. There was someone here that had a stone custom cut (AVC) and wanted no lower than around I-J color, and the diamond turned out to be L. She almost rejected it but decided to take a look, and she loved it and kept it. So you really have to see it.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,766
A few things, Adam usually has diamonds graded by EGL USA they are mostly one to two (if you are unlucky) grades out on colour if any, EGL from other places like Asia, India, and so on can be out by 2 to 4+ grades incorrect in colour and one to two grades in clarity.

Next point, you need to work out if you want a big stone for your money or a whiter stone for your money. That is a lovely large (for the price) very pretty fat arrowed transitional which ticks all the boxes, now if you hate colour and see a tint you are always going to see a tint.

It is worth considering, old cuts like this hide or mask colour so they face up differently to modern round brilliants - what I mean by this is that a J or a K or an L in a modern round brilliant I personally find pretty blaah to look at, but in old cuts I think they look O.K, provided you find the right stone they tend to draw your eye more to the cut and the way they pick up surrounding colours and reflect them back again than they do to the over all tint of the stone. How you set the stone might be a consideration. If you want to minimise any tint consider a setting where you are not looking at the diamond side on a lot and possibly a white metal - although as Erica has very wisely suggested the face up colour in a diamond in this colour range, depends on the tint and undertone (these can be dark brown, light brown, pink, yellow, green, grey and probably a few colours I have missed) that will all impact on how the diamond looks when set.

I would worry less about the colour grading and more about actually seeing the stone in person, colour is subjective you will either be able to live with it, or it will be too tinted for you. And you also need to see if this is the right cut for you as well as it to my eyes has a big table and is more of a fat arrowed tranny (I love both transitional stones with arrows and OECS) than an OEC....
 

ericad

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
2,033
My other suggestion, if you opt for an EGL stone, see it in person and decide you love it (regardless of its EGL grade), is to have it sent to GIA or AGS for a report prior to setting. This will benefit you in many ways - in case you decide to sell or trade it later, and can even impact future insurance replacements if, forbid, something happens to the diamond/ring.

My personal preference for old cuts is AGS because 100% of the time, my stones come back and are called "Old European" while GIA will often call OEC's "Round Brilliant" or "Circular Brilliant" which can be problematic for insurance replacements. I also find AGS to be more consistent with color grading (I've had to ask for many re-checks with GIA over the years, and the grades always change), though they're stricter on clarity (I've dual certed several stones in order to compare the two labs).

EGL is such a mixed bag - I've had EGL stones come back from AGS anywhere from the same color to 2 grades lower, so there's unfortunately no way to know what an EGL diamond really is, and if the price is fair, unless you get a GIA or AGS cert for it.
 

EvaEvans

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
462
becauseyes, I've purchased from Adam of OWD, and based on my experience, my diamond's color was best represented on the video. One of the pictures that Adam sent me was very yellow, but in reality, my diamond is very white. Well, I also trusted the GIA report of my stone. Despite some people here I don't have so much prejudice about EGL, especially EGL-New York, but if you are not comfortable with the EGL certificate, ask Adam to certified with GIA, it usually takes around 2-3 weeks.
 
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